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2013-14 NBA Dec |OT| The Nets are the Knicks of Basketball
- Thread starter reilo
- Start date
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=mghlwrd
It's the only way out, Golden State.
Don't take it, I would like the lottery pick.
Not that I expect it once Iggy comes back though...
It's the only way out, Golden State.
Don't take it, I would like the lottery pick.
Not that I expect it once Iggy comes back though...
Syphon Filter
Member
wtf the suns are decent,just checked the standings. giri must be happy ; )
no
It all really depends what the next move the suns make is how happy/unhappy i'll be with the season.
one thing i do know for certain, Bledsoe is probably getting a max. Probably.
Itll be interesting to see what we do with dragic if we max bledsoe do we max dragic in two years when they have identical stats?no
It all really depends what the next move the suns make is how happy/unhappy i'll be with the season.
one thing i do know for certain, Bledsoe is probably getting a max. Probably.
I don't see dragic lasting that long.
On the floor, they don't really work well with each other. They basically take turns running / handling the offense. On the back of that, i fully expect to see Goran go and Bledsoe stay. Goran is also playing so very well that he's really inflating his trade price at the moment.
But it all comes down to the next move IMO. The jazz need a PG bad, but they don't want to give up Hayward either. So who knows. I really don't think they can get Hayward via trading, it would have to be Hayward forcing the issue with the FO on the back of a big offer from the suns.
It's one of these weird situations where it all really depends so heavily on that next move. There's tons of guys i'd love to get, but they all come at a hefty price, and require the guys not traded to kick it up a gear.
Syphon Filter
Member
They can send dragic right over to the knicks.
For what, there's literally nothing on the knicks that i want to see end up on the suns.
Unless Melo is coming over and so is Marc Gasol i really don't want to see Melo on his own.
I'd rather he did so next year.
Or maybe both years?
I could deal with that.
I don't know if the suns will trade dragic at all at this point. I think bledsoe and dragic work well together as long as their is a stretch 4 to empty the post for them to drive to the post. It also gives us a good PG on the floor at all times so our bench produces at a better level too. Who knows how it works come playoff time but with small ball on the rise it might work.
Dragic has been one of my faves for a while but I know his days are numbered. If we sign Bledsoe to a max, then we have no reason to keep Dragic. We'd use his high trade value to try and snag a true 2 or 3 so Bledsoe can continue to develop as our star PG.
The issue is the current state of the SG in the nba is terrible. the best is currently harden and then its a huge drop. The rise of the scoring PG and the combo guard is really taking away the effectiveness of the sg position the SG position might just be the weakest in the nba right now.
Our biggest hope is that goodwin develops into a good SG and then we can take the risk of trading dragic for a 3 but until then I don't think you make a move because you aren't getting the same production in return. The team chemistry is also a very underrated factor. I have a feeling if we rush to make a move we might be worse off for it.
and people say the issue is that our defense is worse with dragic. Well the current SGs suck anyway and the suns are the number 1 team in 3 point fg percentage defense. I think we are doing fine our biggest issue is rebounding and consistent offense from an athletic big.
Wes at least tries on defense so he's automatically better
Herpes Reasons
Banned
unarguably the greatest laker of all time if kobe gets us a top 5 pick.
On The Edge of Insanity
Member
Hello NBAGaf
Not sure if this the right place to post this, but I was thinking recently of how, in soccer, the use of a False Nine [a striker who drifts deeper and plays more like a creator than a finisher, potentially drawing defenders out with him] has become more widespread over the last few years, and wondered if a basketball equivalent would be possible?
Essentially, if you had a tall, strong center, comfortable in the defensive phase against a traditional center, but who in the offensive phase placed himself on the perimeter of the three point zone rather than in the paint. If he was a good three point shooter then this would leave the opposition centre in a quandary. Does he stay in the paint, blocking the lane to the basket and positioning himself for rebounds, thus leaving the offensive center relatively free to take three pointers, or does he follow him out, potentially leaving the centre free for others to drive into.
While I used to really enjoy playing and watching basketball, I have not watched an NBA match in full in going on five-six years, so am coming at this from a relatively uneducated position. I would therefore be appreciative of any thoughts people may have on whether or not such a tactic would work, or indeed, if anything similar has ever been attempted?
Not sure if this the right place to post this, but I was thinking recently of how, in soccer, the use of a False Nine [a striker who drifts deeper and plays more like a creator than a finisher, potentially drawing defenders out with him] has become more widespread over the last few years, and wondered if a basketball equivalent would be possible?
Essentially, if you had a tall, strong center, comfortable in the defensive phase against a traditional center, but who in the offensive phase placed himself on the perimeter of the three point zone rather than in the paint. If he was a good three point shooter then this would leave the opposition centre in a quandary. Does he stay in the paint, blocking the lane to the basket and positioning himself for rebounds, thus leaving the offensive center relatively free to take three pointers, or does he follow him out, potentially leaving the centre free for others to drive into.
While I used to really enjoy playing and watching basketball, I have not watched an NBA match in full in going on five-six years, so am coming at this from a relatively uneducated position. I would therefore be appreciative of any thoughts people may have on whether or not such a tactic would work, or indeed, if anything similar has ever been attempted?
Of course it's been done before. Unlike soccer, you can have as many substitutions as you want in basketball so you will see a variety of strategies during a match. Players are constantly being sub in and out depending on who the opponents are currently playing.
On The Edge of Insanity
Member
Thanks. Any examples of centers who play/have played in this manner? And what is generally the reaction of the opposing, defensive center?
Hydrogen Bluebird
Member
Lol at that Bargnani pic. But yeah, he fits the perimeter center position.
Yeah it used to be more effective because of the illegal defense rule. These days it really depends on the matchup. There's no hard rules. Basketball requires a lot of thinking on the feet and that's why stupid players and coaches are very easily exposed.
That guy in the pic, but he's a shitty player so I don't know if it's a good example.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjHC_h0bwMg
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
they call them stretch 5s or 4s.
Bill Laimbeer fits that mold better than most, but he wasn't a super dead eye shooter.. he shot about 32% from 3 his career. But played D far better than most stretch big men..
Sam Perkins shoot the ball better but wasn't very good on D..
Sabonis was another..
Recently Ersan Ilyasova might be the closet to a big man who plays big but shoots the ball well.. most the time they quite soft..
On The Edge of Insanity
Member
Thanks for all the replies. As I said in my original post, I was coming at it from a somewhat ignorant place, so it is interesting to learn that this strategy has been used before.
How do teams usually deal with this defensively? Is the defensive center drawn from his normal position out towards the perimeter, or do they instead take on a zonal marking system, with the defensive center simply dealing with any outside runners who make their way into the paint?
How do teams usually deal with this defensively? Is the defensive center drawn from his normal position out towards the perimeter, or do they instead take on a zonal marking system, with the defensive center simply dealing with any outside runners who make their way into the paint?
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
usually the center just marks his man.. because while they might be able to shoot they cant really put the ball on the floor and drive..
Few big men could do that... Webber and Kevin Garnett come to mind...
On The Edge of Insanity
Member
Doesn't that leave a lot of space in the middle, allowing a shooting ground or one of the two forwards an opportunity to drive into the space? Sorry for all the questions, I am genuinely interested. If there is a website that explains basketball strategy then I'm happy to be pointed in that direction instead of taking up all of your time with endless questions.
Future PhaZe
Member
Well, we don't have a lot of traditional centers that can play as a stretch 5, but we do have a lot of stretch 4's in todays NBA that PLAY the 5 and put the defense in that same position.
It's partly how the Heat have buttered their bread these last few years. They have Chris Bosh play the 5 man and he extends as far as need be, even hitting threes, and he's such a proficient mid range shooter that the big men are forced out of the paint which gives LeBron the ability to use his slashing to create chaos and pass out for a variety of hockey assists (a pass to one guy who passes to another to make a shot).
The last TRUE stretch 5 that I can remember was Mehmet Okur. I'm still surprised that Jazz team never saw a finals--but Mehmet was a big 5 who shot the three extremely well, but it really doesn't make any difference is a stretch "5" is true 4 or a true 5, as it puts the defense in the same awkward position regardless.
It's why I don't really see the Heat getting beat anytime soon though. They deal with modern basketball issues very well--exceptional perimeter defense that's just shocking to watch sometimes in how efficient it is despite "mediocre" defensive players, and offensively they are really tough to stop because of how they stretch you out.
Yes--See the Miami Heat. You can't take away EVERYTHING, but better defenses close out well on the shooters and would rather live with the mid-range jumpshot, which is the worst shot in the league in todays NBA.
I wouldn't trade them. You've got two legit wings that can get you 19 and 6. Perimeter defense may not be great, but you balance that by having a strong interior presence and a nice defensive scheme.
I think the FO has the right idea by trying to use a pick to get players, or maybe use them to trade up? The suns are in a good position.
Vag is rolling in his grave
Future PhaZe
Member
Kobe looks like he's trapped eternally in 2006 with his shot selection and decision making these days so yea he probably should be.
But but but basketball is not a simulator!
LegendofJoe
Member
The numbers definitely say the mid-range shot is the least efficient way to score. That said I can see where vag is coming from if you're talking about a player that can hit that shot at a percentage high enough to make it a better shot than taking a 3. There aren't many guys who can do that (Dirk and Aldridge come to mind), but there is some validity to what vag was saying. It just doesn't apply to the large majority of players.
The Frankman
Banned
The Frankman
Banned
Beasley >> Gallo at smoking weed.
Future PhaZe
Member
Beasley actually returning to the Heat and playing great.
I just can't help but to feel that none of this happens if we didn't rock those Wade avatars a few years back.
We're fucking to blame for this shit
I just can't help but to feel that none of this happens if we didn't rock those Wade avatars a few years back.
We're fucking to blame for this shit
What's the point of this chart? Stretch 4 is about how a player plays offensively. It should compare a player's impact on his opponent's defense, not the player's own defensive ability.
But kobe won two championships since 06
Gully State
Member
The original stretch 5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSfBRAIT4eg
ok maybe not...but damn did he look goofy hoisting a three
Future PhaZe
Member
UnObtainium17
Member
Is this chart misleading? Lebron is considered more stretchy vs defense than KD or Love at 4? My eyes tell me KD and Love are better 3pt shooters than Bron. I would have prefered the chart if it was DRTG and %anything 15ft away from basket. Though it wouldnt surprise me if Lebron still comes out better on that because his shot selection is so good.
santeesioux
Member
Psychological Intellect
Banned
Lebron's shooting the three at a better percentage than love or KD this season. He's having a rough slump in december though(as far as 3pt% goes)
That's because it is, but you wouldn't know because you didn't watch enough basketball in the 90's. You can't get an accurate depiction of what 90's basketball was like based off hearsay and Youtube clips.
Dominican Power
Member
How the hell is TP ahead of CP3?
who are you