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[darkside31337]

In what way? It seems like they are randomizing it for the sake of randomizing it. While fucking struggling teams in bad markets for lengths of time

Because teams will have no incentive to be as truly awful as they can possibly be. It'll improve the general quality of the league because you'll have teams stop trying to actively lose basketball games for the sake of ping pong balls.

 

[Future PhaZe]

(1/2) Rubio confidant on 5-yr/no 5-yr ext. idea: "Value still high around league & a lot of teams would def. be interested in his services."

(2/2) Me talking now: Reading the tea leaves, Rubio people expect the 5-yr max extension offer next offseason. Will be interesting. #twolves

 

[Rodeo Clown]

Because teams will have no incentive to be as truly awful as they can possibly be. It'll improve the general quality of the league because you'll have teams stop trying to actively lose basketball games for the sake of ping pong balls.

How are teams going to improve if they currently suck, can't sign marquee free agents and then get slotted into the back half of the draft?

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Because teams will have no incentive to be as truly awful as they can possibly be. It'll improve the general quality of the league because you'll have teams stop trying to actively lose basketball games for the sake of ping pong balls.

I don't think that super mediocre teams full of mediocre veteran talent similar to the Jax Bobcats would really make the league that much more interesting than teams throwing out a bunch of young guys who have surprise and randomness on their side.

The Jazz, Magic, and 76ers are the only teams even trying to lose this year in a year with several superstar prospects in the draft so the actual prevalence of it is very minor, why is this an issue worth pursuing?

 

[jjasper]

I think the new idea is brilliant. Rewards teams for always trying to win games.

It doesn't reward you for winning games. It is all completely randomized 30 years out.

 

[Red Blaster]

darkside likes it so it's obviously terrible and stupid

 

[dalVlatko]

I thought it was an interesting idea until I considered that it pretty much allows college players to choose who drafts them.

Jabari Parker could declare this year and be drafted by the Bucks who have the number 1 pick... or he could stay another year because the Lakers have the number 1 pick next.

There would probably be a lot of players who didn't care, but this seems like a perfect way to make sure the big markets are always winning and the rest of the league is stuck on the treadmill of mediocrity.

 

[darkside31337]

How are teams going to improve if they currently suck, can't sign marquee free agents and then get slotted into the back half of the draft?

Why can't they sign marquee free agents?

I don't buy that shit. You offer more money than anybody else and you get the guy you want. Free Agents don't want to sign with teams that suck and aren't trying to win. Morey figured that one out.

Teams can turn their franchise around without a top 5 pick. Elite players slip through the cracks, teams can make smart FA signings and trades and develop their own guys internally.

I don't think that super mediocre teams full of mediocre veteran talent similar to the Jax Bobcats would really make the league that much more interesting than teams throwing out a bunch of young guys who have surprise and randomness on their side.

The Jazz, Magic, and 76ers are the only teams even trying to lose this year in a year with several superstar prospects in the draft so the actual prevalence of it is very minor, why is this an issue worth pursuing?

This is what the new system is designed for. They want to bottom out the truly awful teams. It's better for the league for every team trying to aim for respectability year in and year out.

 

[jjasper]

Why can't they sign marquee free agents?

What was the last small market team, even the ones that have been good over the last 5 years that has signed a marquee free agent?

 

[Rodeo Clown]

Why can't they sign marquee free agents?

I don't buy that shit. You offer more money than anybody else and you get the guy you want. Free Agents don't want to sign with teams that suck and aren't trying to win. Morey figured that one out.

Teams can turn their franchise around without a top 5 pick. Elite players slip through the cracks, teams can make smart FA signings and trades and develop their own guys internally.

But the NBA has a system in place that places a cap on how much guys can earn. If there's several teams offering the same guy 4/60, he's not signing with Milwaukee over Dallas.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Why can't they sign marquee free agents?

I don't buy that shit. You offer more money than anybody else and you get the guy you want. Free Agents don't want to sign with teams that suck and aren't trying to win. Morey figured that one out.

Teams can turn their franchise around without a top 5 pick. Elite players slip through the cracks, teams can make smart FA signings and trades and develop their own guys internally.



This is what the new system is designed for. They want to bottom out the truly awful teams. It's better for the league for every team trying to aim for respectability year in and year out.

But teams aiming for respectability often really aren't any more interesting than clusterfuck teams with interesting young talent because those teams have high variance on their side.

List of stars taken from 11-30 from 2000 to 2009:

Roy Hibbert
Ryan Anderson
Rajon Rondo
Danny Granger
Josh Smith
Al Jefferson
David West
Zach Randolph
Crash
Tony Parker

That's 10 guys out of 200 picks and this is using an incredibly liberal definition of star.

 

[darkside31337]

What was the last small market team, even the ones that have been good over the last 5 years that has signed a marquee free agent?

Are Miami and Houston suddenly NYC and LA?

Nobody wants to sign with the likes of Milwaukee and Toronto because they are garbage organizations and not because they have smaller TV markets or whatever metric you're using to determine what a large market is.

 

[Red Blaster]

Why can't they sign marquee free agents?

I don't buy that shit. You offer more money than anybody else and you get the guy you want. Free Agents don't want to sign with teams that suck and aren't trying to win. Morey figured that one out.

Teams can turn their franchise around without a top 5 pick. Elite players slip through the cracks, teams can make smart FA signings and trades and develop their own guys internally.



This is what the new system is designed for. They want to bottom out the truly awful teams. It's better for the league for every team trying to aim for respectability year in and year out.

marquee free agents are offered the same amount of max money by multiple teams, therefore completely demolishing your point

 

[Future PhaZe]

If anything the lottery odds for the bottom 4 clubs should go up significantly. Shit like the worst of all time Bobcats of a couple of years ago not coming away with Anthony Davis is fucking stupid imo.

I've never had a problem with tanking. If you suck shit for 82 games then you should be guaranteed a high pick.

You want to talk about the quality of the NBA product being weighed down--that's not even a thing because 90% of the viewership can only watch the same ten fucking matchups every year due to the fucking repetitive and shit nationally televised games schedule.

 

[KingGondo]

From Lowe's article:

People in the league seem to like the idea of incorporating a team's record over the three prior seasons, instead of just the most recent season, into their lottery odds. That way, a team that was very good before suffering a one-year blip of injuries or intentional flat-lining would not be rewarded as richly as it might be today.

I like this idea.

 

[Rodeo Clown]

If anything the lottery odds for the bottom 4 clubs should go up significantly. Shit like the worst of all time Bobcats of a couple of years ago not coming away with Anthony Davis is fucking stupid imo.

I've never had a problem with tanking. If you suck shit for 82 games then you should be guaranteed a high pick.

You want to talk about the quality of the NBA product being weighed down--that's not even a thing because 90% of the viewership can only watch the same ten fucking matchups every year due to the fucking repetitive and shit nationally televised games schedule.

I agree with this. The worst team has a better chance of getting the no. 4 pick than the top slot and that's fucked.

 

[jjasper]

Are Miami and Houston suddenly NYC and LA?

Nobody wants to sign with the likes of Milwaukee and Toronto because they are garbage organizations and not because they have smaller TV markets or whatever metric you're using to determine what a large market is.

Miami and Houston are the 8th and 5th largest MSAs in the country. Not exactly small.

 

[DY_nasty]

I think the new idea is brilliant. Rewards teams for always trying to win games.

Also it doesn't have to be either or.

Have the top 5~ picks rotate in a set order but the rest of the draft is determined by how bad you are. If teams want to still tank they can, they just aren't going to get the #1 pick out of it.

How you'd get this? lol

 

[darkside31337]

Miami and Houston are the 8th and 6th largest MSAs in the country not exactly small.

Right I don't really think market size has much to do where guys sign these days. The biggest superstars in the game make their money on an international level, the actual city they play in these days doesn't matter as much as it did say 20 years ago. People really harp on market size but the reality is plenty of guys have passed over NYC and LA the past several years because nobody wants to play in those markets with the current talent that those teams have.

 

[DY_nasty]

Right I don't really think market size has much to do where guys sign these days. The biggest superstars in the game make their money on an international level, the actual city they play in these days doesn't matter as much as it did say 20 years ago. People really harp on market size but the reality is plenty of guys have passed over NYC and LA the past several years because nobody wants to play in those markets with the current talent that those teams have.

No one wants to play in NYC because Dolan literally has goons to stalk his employees. LA gets people to limp in fresh off of knee surgeries to coach a trainwreck and take the blame with a smile.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

I don't know if using Dwight passing on the Lakers or LeBron passing on the Knicks (which are the really the only examples you can possibly use) are really good examples considering that those teams were just horrible. Superstars won't sign with horrible teams seems to be the only thing to draw from there...Which seems nearly as obvious as superstars won't sign for small markets and leads to the issues of how bad teams and small market teams would ever break out of the cycle again. The only way for those teams to be somewhat relevant without draft picks is to wildly overpay players (such as the Knicks with Amare) and that prevents them from signing enough good players later on to actual compete. It would seem to create a cycle of irrelevance that it would be nearly impossible to get out of.

This would just encourage more teams like the Gay-DeRozan Toronto fuckball thing and I don't think those teams are any more interesting than taking teams.

 

[ph33nix]

No one wants to play in NYC because Dolan literally has goons to stalk his employees. LA gets people to limp in fresh off of knee surgeries to coach a trainwreck and take the blame with a smile.

HEAT CULTURE BITCHESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

 

[DY_nasty]

HEAT CULTURE BITCHESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

I remember when you were just happy to have Damon Jones

 

[linsivvi]

No matter. The Knicks will still trade away all their picks.

I remember when you were just happy to have Damon Jones

He'll probably be happy just to have Beasley.

 

[darkside31337]

No matter. The Knicks will still trade away all their picks.

This is actually the real reason for the new system. It's the leagues way of trying to save the Knicks and Nets from themselves.

 

[linsivvi]

This is actually the real reason for the new system. It's the leagues way of trying to save the Knicks and Nets from themselves.

The team official who proposed this stupid idea is probably from the Knicks or Nets.

If you want to fix the lottery, the 3 year record idea seems better.

 

[darkside31337]

Honestly the best solution is to just get rid of the draft all together. Every single rookie is a UFA when they enter the league.

 

[otapnam]

Honestly the best solution is to just get rid of the draft all together. Every single rookie is a UFA when they enter the league.

This is the dumbest idea ever. You're going to get a bunch of jamarcus russel contracts and everyone's gonna be pissed off

 

[darkside31337]

This is the dumbest idea ever. You're going to get a bunch of jamarcus russel contracts and everyone's gonna be pissed off

Its the fairest solution.

If a team wants to give 4/48 for Wiggins before he plays a single game they can do so. Nobody is forcing them to give him that kind of money. But they have the choice of spending whatever they want on any amount of rookies so as long as it fits their general cap.

 

[Emwitus]

Honestly the best solution is to just get rid of the draft all together. Every single rookie is a UFA when they enter the league.

18/19 year old unrestricted free agents. What could possibly go wrong.

 

[Kave_Man]

Honestly the best solution is to just get rid of the draft all together. Every single rookie is a UFA when they enter the league.

 

[linsivvi]

We've seen a lot of silly posts in this thread, yet somehow Darkside managed to top them all.

 

[darkside31337]

18/19 year old unrestricted free agents. What could possibly go wrong.

They're still making millions of dollars anyway being drafted in the top half of the first round. So I'm not sure how this is an issue.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

The best thing the NBA could do for the draft is to encourage top high school prospects to play in Europe so I don't have to watch college basketball, the players can paid, and the players can focus on actually learning how to play basketball. That matters a lot more than if the 76ers don't want to continue the JRue Holiday era.

 

[linsivvi]

The best thing the NBA could do for the draft is to encourage top high school prospects to play in Europe so I don't have to watch college basketball, the players can paid, and the players can focus on actually learning how to play basketball. That matters a lot more than if the 76ers don't want to continue the JRue Holiday era.

Or they can fully develop the D-league into a minor league instead of the half-hearted effort right now.

 

[darkside31337]

We've seen a lot of silly posts in this thread, yet somehow Darkside managed to top them all.

Tell me how this is a bad idea. It lets teams sign whatever rookies they're interested in, creates an open market for a player entering the league to sign wherever he wants rather than spending the first half of his career in a city and with an organization he doesn't want to be around (Kyrie).

 

[1871]

The best thing the NBA could do for the draft is to encourage top high school prospects to play in Europe so I don't have to watch college basketball, the players can paid, and the players can focus on actually learning how to play basketball. That matters a lot more than if the 76ers don't want to continue the JRue Holiday era.

They would get 15 minutes of playing time at best

 

[Zep]

The best thing the NBA could do for the draft is to encourage top high school prospects to play in Europe so I don't have to watch college basketball, the players can paid, and the players can focus on actually learning how to play basketball.

These dudes aren't going over to Europe to sit on the bench.

 

[Red Blaster]

Tell me how this is a bad idea. It lets teams sign whatever rookies they're interested in, creates an open market for a player entering the league to sign wherever he wants rather than spending the first half of his career in a city and with an organization he doesn't want to be around (Kyrie).

it'll be awesome when teams like the bucks and raptors literally never get a potential superstar rookie and instead have to pay 9 million a year to get ben mclemore/terrence ross spec players

 

[linsivvi]

Tell me how this is a bad idea. It lets teams sign whatever rookies they're interested in, creates an open market for a player entering the league to sign wherever he wants rather than spending the first half of his career in a city and with an organization he doesn't want to be around (Kyrie).

It'd be like soccer where only the major markets can win but unlike soccer the NBA has to compete with multiple sports, which means the small market teams will fold after a few years.

And before you say the league can use some contraction, that would mean the overall revenue will drop and players will be played much less.

 

[darkside31337]

It'd be like soccer where only the major markets can win but unlike soccer the NBA has to compete with multiple sports, which means the small market teams will fold after a few years.

And before you say the league can use some contraction, that would mean the overall revenue will drop and players will be played much less.

Except unlike soccer there is a salary cap.

Teams like Chelsea and Barcelona can spend whatever they want to spend. That is not the case with the NBA.

 

[captmcblack]

If you go to college, mandatory 2 years. The polish will be better on these players, and they'll actually get some semblance of an education (in theory) too.

If you want to go straight to the pros (you're good enough, you want to make money now, etc), you have to declare as a free agent (which means you can also go to Europe or South America to play...but it also means you might not get signed). That's how it is in baseball.

Teams dealing in the draft get 3 years accounted for in the calculation...but I also like this "wheel" idea to help end tanking. Maybe you don't have 30 years of picks accounted for though - maybe only 10.

 

[linsivvi]

Except unlike soccer there is a salary cap.

Teams like Chelsea and Barcelona can spend whatever they want to spend. That is not the case with the NBA.

Salary cap? LMAO. A particular draft has an average of 2-3 franchise players. The big market teams will bid for them and dump their old stars. You only need a few stars to win in this league and they will all be scooped up by the big market teams.

But yeah go ahead with this idea, I certainly love seeing the Lakers dominate every year instead of the train wreck we have right now.

 

[darkside31337]

Salary cap? LMAO. A particular draft has an average of 2-3 franchise players. The big market teams will bid for them and dump their old stars. You only need a few stars to win in this league and they will all be scooped up by the big market teams.

But yeah go ahead with this idea, I certainly love seeing the Lakers dominate every year instead of the train wreck we have right now.

Except guys in the top 5 bust all the time.

What would Derrick Williams have gotten if he was a FA in 2011? What would have a team paid Greg Oden as a FA entering the league?

The Lakers have no money to spend. Any other team in the league can pay more for Jabari's services. They wouldn't get a elite FA.

 

[linsivvi]

Except guys in the top 5 bust all the time.

What would Derrick Williams have gotten if he was a FA in 2011? What would have a team paid Greg Oden as a FA entering the league?

The Lakers have no money to spend. Any other team in the league can pay more for Jabari's services. They wouldn't get a elite FA.

Then the teams that drafted the busts wouldn't win. There are like 7-8 big market teams that can afford to spend and they will scoop up all the potential stars and the better managed teams out of those will win.

The Lakers have tons of money to spend. They can't spend right now exactly because of the current system. If the league implemented this retarded system of yours, they would have money to spend every year because they can always replenish their aging stars with fresh ones. Because next year they could just sign Parker and Wiggins or whoever that turns out to have the best potential.

I ain't gonna waste more time with your silly thing. You go sit in a corner and think why it's stupid.

 

[AcridMeat]

I don't like how they used Barnes to GS as an example of a bad thing. Fuck this jealous league.

Darkside I wonder how long you can keep this up, because you've said some mind boggling things.

 

[darkside31337]

Then the teams that drafted the busts won't win. There are like 7-8 big market teams that can afford to spend and they will scoop up all the potential stars and the better managed teams out of those will win.

The Lakers have tons of money to spend. They can't spend right now exactly because of the current system. If the league implemented this retarded system of yours, they will have money to spend every year because they can always replenish their aging stars with fresh ones.

Except this isn't an advantage for the Lakers. Every single team in the league would be able to do the same exact thing. If the Lakers built their entire cap around trying to sign guys who have never played in the league and they paying them the max they're setting themselves to be completely fucked over when Parker and Wiggins aren't max level guys.

Teams that do what you're advocating would be leaving veterans in the FA market with plenty of miles left. Teams would be able to draft multiple young players on much smaller deals when they don't have the hype of the elite prospects.

I don't like how they used Barnes to GS as an example of a bad thing. Fuck this jealous league.

Darkside I wonder how long you can keep this up, because you've said some mind boggling things.

Shrug. I realize my idea is radical but the arguments against it are pretty stupid. This new system doesn't create more advantages for larger market teams. Those are the teams that are less likely to offer max level deals for 18 year old kids who haven't proven anything on the NBA level. Teams like the Lakers would rather spend that kind of money on proven commodities who have been playing in the league for 5+ years.

 

[Emwitus]

Except this isn't an advantage for the Lakers. Every single team in the league would be able to do the same exact thing. If the Lakers built their entire cap around trying to sign guys who have never played in the league and they paying them the max they're setting themselves to be completely fucked over when Parker and Wiggins aren't max level guys.

Teams that do what you're advocating would be leaving veterans in the FA market with plenty of miles left. Teams would be able to draft multiple young players on much smaller deals when they don't have the hype of the elite prospects.

Are you really arguing that being able to sign the best player coming out of high school/college at your discretion is NOT an advantage?

And do you think an 18 year old would choose OKC over LA?

 

[linsivvi]

Except this isn't an advantage for the Lakers. Every single team in the league would be able to do the same exact thing. If the Lakers built their entire cap around trying to sign guys who have never played in the league and they paying them the max they're setting themselves to be completely fucked over when Parker and Wiggins aren't max level guys.

Teams that do what you're advocating would be leaving veterans in the FA market with plenty of miles left. Teams would be able to draft multiple young players on much smaller deals when they don't have the hype of the elite prospects.

LMAO.

 

[Red Blaster]

the current draft protocol gets most things right, only major thing i would change is upping the chances the worst teams get the top pick. that's why darkside's inane "reward teams for trying to win" point is based around a dumb strawman given that shit teams aren't guaranteed to get the top pick anyway.