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2013-2014 NCAA Men's Basketball |OT|

S

Silkworm

Member
Seth C said:
Ah, five guys all trying to play one-on-one basketball. Just the way the good Dr. imagined it.
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Well that's the risk you take when your team is mostly a collection of one-and-done freshman players. Sometime they gel (2012) and sometimes they don't (2013). Still think UK comes back and beats Arkansas in the 2nd half.

Edit: But if UK were to lose tonight... UF sole SEC regular season champs, baby! ;-)
 
S

Silkworm

Member
Fjordson said:
Please. Even if UK wins out we wouldn't catch Florida.
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Probably not, but technically would be true if UK wins tonight (UF could still slip up -- LSU game worries me). Still I think UK pride (and some better play) will get UK this win tonight. But it looks like it could go down to the wire, similar to the LSU game.
 
F

Fjordson

Member
Meh. Arkansas is just hungrier. These SEC teams on the bubble simply play with more desperation than UK. Some nights out talent is enough to overcome that, but not always.
 
S

Seth C

Member
Silkworm said:
Well that's the risk you take when your team is mostly a collection of one-and-done freshman players. Sometime they gel (2012) and sometimes they don't (2013). Still think UK comes back and beats Arkansas in the 2nd half.
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There is maybe one player on this team that has any business being one and done. One.

Either way, that 2013 team just didn't have much talent and the main talent went down to injury. Anyone who says otherwise is ignorant. After Nerlens Noel destroyed his knee there was simply no one left (and whatever Billy's magic strategy is still took a loss to that shitty bunch). 2011 went to the Final Four. 2010 went to the Elite 8. No shame in any of that, freshmen or not. And I dare say most teams would gladly trade.

"One and done" complaints are a copout. It has nothing to do with this team's issues. That 2012 team was so damned good that no one returned, and rightfully so. It left the cupboard completely bare, as evidenced by the second best player on last year's team being Archie fucking Goodwin. Only two players from the team left early for the NBA and one of them had absolutely no business doing so. At all.

The Harrison twins will be just as selfish 4 years from now as they are today and neither of them will have real success in the NBA. That's just a recruiting miss. Then again, this entire class was vastly overrated. Not a single superstar at the next level among them, and it was supposed to be one of the best classes of all-time, blah blah blah.
 
S

Silkworm

Member
Seth C said:
There is maybe one player on this team that has any business being one and done. One.

Either way, that 2013 team just didn't have much talent and the main talent went down to injury. Anyone who says otherwise is ignorant. After Nerlens Noel destroyed his knee there was simply no one left (and whatever Billy's magic strategy is still took a loss to that shitty bunch). 2011 went to the Final Four. 2010 went to the Elite 8. No shame in any of that, freshmen or not. And I dare say most teams would gladly trade.

"One and done" complaints are a copout. It has nothing to do with this team's issues. That 2012 team was so damned good that no one returned, and rightfully so. It left the cupboard completely bare, as evidenced by the second best player on last year's team being Archie fucking Goodwin. Only two players from the team left early for the NBA and one of them had absolutely no business doing so. At all.

The Harrison twins will be just as selfish 4 years from now as they are today and neither of them will have real success in the NBA. That's just a recruiting miss. Then again, this entire class was vastly overrated. Not a single superstar at the next level among them, and it was supposed to be one of the best classes of all-time, blah blah blah.
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Okay, maybe I should say a team with talented freshman projected pre-season to be "one and done" :)

How about anytime you have a team with a lot of freshman you get ups and downs (UK teams of late have seemed to be heavy on the freshman makeup)? I think that's a fair statement. Hopefully a lot of this year's UK team hangs around -- obviously probably not Randle -- and they have something even more to build on for next year. This team is still talented so if the light comes on they can do some damage in the NCAA tournament.

Edit: BTW I didn't say 2012-2013 team was "shitty", I said they didn't gel. Not making the NCAA tournament = not gelling. Noels loss and the time of the loss definitely hurt their chances of making the NCAA tournament. I never write a "win" against UK at Rupp Arena for UF regardless of how the UK team is performing. That place is tough to win at and UK's talent is never poor.
 
F

Fjordson

Member
Young and Randle will be gone and probably WCS.

But you're right, depending on freshmen is a bit of a gamble. You sometimes get classes that are vastly overrated by the scouts and media (like this 2013 one was). That's why I'm not terribly upset by a year like this. Disappointed, but not mad. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, but we have at least a chance every year because of our good recruiting.

And Calipari's already shifted his recruiting ideology. Not in a major way, but we have multiple four year players on the roster right now and have more multi-year players coming in. Of our four signees in next year's class, I'd say only one has a real shot of being a one and done (Karl Towns).
 
S

Silkworm

Member
Fjordson said:
Young and Randle will be gone and probably WCS.

But you're right, depending on freshmen is a bit of a gamble. You sometimes get classes that are vastly overrated by the scouts and media (like this 2013 one was). That's why I'm not terribly upset by a year like this. Disappointed, but not mad. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, but we have at least a chance every year because of our good recruiting.

And Calipari's already shifted his recruiting ideology. Not in a major way, but we have multiple four year players on the roster right now and have more multi-year players coming in. Of our four signees in next year's class, I'd say only one has a real shot of being a one and done (Karl Towns).
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I've heard that as well. I'm sure he'll find something that works more consistently. Like you said, sometimes it doesn't work but then sometimes it works so well NCAA tournament is the prize (a worthwhile "gamble" for sure). I envy the talent Calapri consistently brings to UK and if he blends super star talent (players like Randle, Noels, Davis) with players who will by 4 year (or so) starters I'm going to be even more worried about future UK dominance :) Still if UF can continue to recruit well, I'm sure UF will try to do their best to compete with UK and hopefully the rest of the conference will improve as well (UGA and LSU look like they're headed in the right direction).
 
S

Silkworm

Member
There you go UK, grab that lead! WCS is doing a very good job contributing on the offensive end (got a double-double in points and rebounds).

Edit: Meanwhile, OSU..... :-\ Gonna get swept by Penn St? If so, shame on you.

Edit2: Whelp, OT for the Arkansas-UK game. Still think UK wins, probably just like the LSU game at Rupp.
 
I

iamblades

Member
Fjordson said:
Young and Randle will be gone and probably WCS.

But you're right, depending on freshmen is a bit of a gamble. You sometimes get classes that are vastly overrated by the scouts and media (like this 2013 one was). That's why I'm not terribly upset by a year like this. Disappointed, but not mad. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, but we have at least a chance every year because of our good recruiting.

And Calipari's already shifted his recruiting ideology. Not in a major way, but we have multiple four year players on the roster right now and have more multi-year players coming in. Of our four signees in next year's class, I'd say only one has a real shot of being a one and done (Karl Towns).
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The freshman part of it is the least important part, but people always focus on experience vs. inexperience. The problem is not knowing what you have and what works with the peices you have, and trying to wing it and invent ways to win on the fly, and hope you have the pieces to make a winning team.

The issue with this year's team is not the inexperience or a lack of talent, the problem is that we are missing certain key roles that you need to have a quality basketball team, but we didn't know we were missing them until the season was a bit underway.

In this instance what we are missing is a legitimate lockdown perimeter defender. Our perimeter defense was similarly bad last year, but Noel erased a ton of mistakes until he went down. The next thing we are missing is a consistent shooter from, well, anywhere outside 5 feet. We didn't know we were missing things because from the preseason and his reputation coming in, everyone thought Young was going to be an excellent shooter, but he turned out to be a streaky gunner with poor shot selection. I have no explanation for the lack of any credible perimeter defense, with the kind of size and athletes we have there, it makes no sense to me.

The third thing we are missing, but only halfway, it the dominating rim protector. I say only halfway because half the time WCS looks every bit the part, and half the time he disappears. Before the season we looked at how he did after Noel went down and extrapolated out, but he just hasn't been there 100% this season...

Last year we were obviously missing a point guard, and everyone including cal knew that was a problem a year ahead of time, that's why he took on Ryan Harrow as a transfer. It obviously didn't work out and we had no backup plan, and then Noel got hurt.

People talk about Miller's veteran leadership being the key to 2012 (along with T Jones and Lamb), but really what they brought to the table (because we all know who the real leaders of that team were) was they they filled roles that were needed to make that team work. Miller and Lamb were the consistent outside shooters we so desperately need this year, and Jones was the beast on the boards that allowed Anthony Davis to freelance on defense without worrying about giving up offensive boards. It wasn't experience that made that team great, it was that they were actually a complete team, with no holes.
 
T

truly101

I got grudge sucked!
iamblades said:
The freshman part of it is the least important part, but people always focus on experience vs. inexperience. The problem is not knowing what you have and what works with the peices you have, and trying to wing it and invent ways to win on the fly, and hope you have the pieces to make a winning team.

The issue with this year's team is not the inexperience or a lack of talent, the problem is that we are missing certain key roles that you need to have a quality basketball team, but we didn't know we were missing them until the season was a bit underway.

In this instance what we are missing is a legitimate lockdown perimeter defender. Our perimeter defense was similarly bad last year, but Noel erased a ton of mistakes until he went down. The next thing we are missing is a consistent shooter from, well, anywhere outside 5 feet. We didn't know we were missing things because from the preseason and his reputation coming in, everyone thought Young was going to be an excellent shooter, but he turned out to be a streaky gunner with poor shot selection. I have no explanation for the lack of any credible perimeter defense, with the kind of size and athletes we have there, it makes no sense to me.

The third thing we are missing, but only halfway, it the dominating rim protector. I say only halfway because half the time WCS looks every bit the part, and half the time he disappears. Before the season we looked at how he did after Noel went down and extrapolated out, but he just hasn't been there 100% this season...

Last year we were obviously missing a point guard, and everyone including cal knew that was a problem a year ahead of time, that's why he took on Ryan Harrow as a transfer. It obviously didn't work out and we had no backup plan, and then Noel got hurt.

People talk about Miller's veteran leadership being the key to 2012 (along with T Jones and Lamb), but really what they brought to the table (because we all know who the real leaders of that team were) was they they filled roles that were needed to make that team work. Miller and Lamb were the consistent outside shooters we so desperately need this year, and Jones was the beast on the boards that allowed Anthony Davis to freelance on defense without worrying about giving up offensive boards. It wasn't experience that made that team great, it was that they were actually a complete team, with no holes.
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This is all true about this year's Duke team, with a few specific differences. Duke isn't quite as young, but the upperclassmen are not particularly great players. There's talent, but there's a lot of inconsistency. I think the killer for us is this team has no killer instinct or since of urgency. They can play hard, but not always with purpose. We also have no size and a bad defense. I still don't think this team has played its best though.
 
I

iamblades

Member
Seth C said:
Meanwhile this team has no point guard, no distributor, no shooters...good luck to them.
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Eh I think Harrison could have maybe turned out to be a decent distributing PG, if not for the last part of that equation. How do you distribute to shooters that don't exist?

I really think the perimeter defense of this team is problem #1-97 though. After that, shooting and interior defense and PG play round out the top 100.

Basically what I am saying is that this team is not a Darius Miller's veteran leadership away from contending, it is an MKG's lockdown defense away from contending. Shit a Deandre Liggins would get you most of the way there.
 
S

Silkworm

Member
Well, that wasn't what I expected. Congrats to the Hogs! I'm sure UK will regroup and will make SC pay. Also congrats to the Gators, now officially the sole SEC regular season champions!
 
S

Seth C

Member
iamblades said:
Eh I think Harrison could have maybe turned out to be a decent distributing PG, if not for the last part of that equation. How do you distribute to shooters that don't exist?

I really think the perimeter defense of this team is problem #1-97 though. After that, shooting and interior defense and PG play round out the top 100.
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You pass to Young for an easy layup? You pass to anyone rather than getting rejected by the rim twice in a row? You pass to the big men down low. He just won't pass to anyone.
 
S

Silkworm

Member
Seth C said:
You pass to Young for an easy layup? You pass to anyone rather than getting rejected by the rim twice in a row? You pass to the big men down low. He just won't pass to anyone.
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Did Polson play? I know he's more of a backup point guard but I thought he might have been able to help. Then again perhaps he's regressed of late?
 
I

iamblades

Member
Seth C said:
You pass to Young for an easy layup? You pass to anyone rather than getting rejected by the rim twice in a row? You pass to the big men down low. He just won't pass to anyone.
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A pass (even to an open player) in the paint near the rim is a more difficult pass to read and execute for a marginal PG, as compared to a pass to a perimeter player that can hit a shot.

I'm not saying he could've been the next Rajon Rondo, just think he could have done passably with the right pieces. Passable point guard play is a fairly low bar when you have the kind of offensive rebounding this team has.

If you can't get stops consistently it is all useless anyway though.
 
H

HeisenbergLannister

Member
Welp, at least when we lose in the first round in March, it won't be a gut punch.

Andrew Harrison went full fucking retard the last minute of regulation. Can't make a free throw in critical moments. Up 5 and WCS gets the steal, then passes it behind him for some reason. Grab the ball, get it to a guard, and go. Chance to go up 7 with three minutes to go and Arkansas on the ropes, but nope.

Not sure the collective basketball IQ on this team would be over 10.
 
B

bucknuticus

Member
Ive accepted what this team was months ago. We're not going to blow anyone out, going to lose stupid games, but we'll be in every game no matter the opponent.

Mich st game should be good, will be an emotional one as its craft finale.
 
T

Talon

Member
bucknuticus said:
Hey guys remember when we lost to penn st twice in one season!!?!???


Ahahahahahahahaha



Kill me
Click to expand...
Bane_TDKR3.jpg
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Your punishment must be more severe.
 
H

HeisenbergLannister

Member
bachikarn said:
How the heck was Harrison the #1 PG?
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Because he's big, tall, and bullied his way over smaller, slower guards, and in AAU, his defense was hidden because nobody else played defense.

Now that he's playing against quicker guards, he's getting exposed, and with defenses packing it in, he can't penetrate.

Hopefully coming back for a sophomore season will open both their eyes. If any NBA GM drafts either Harrison, they should be fired, unless their name is Michael Jordan. I don't give a damn how tall Andrew is, he would get embarrassed in the NBA right now.
 
G

Grover Cleveland

Member
Apparently Jahlil Okafor will accompany Myles Turner during his visit to Duke for the UNC game next week.

Get it done Jah
smugrussell.gif



(Yes, I know the chances of Duke getting another center are 0.001%, but I'm keeping hope alive damnit!)
 
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