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[Justin Timberlake]

CP slow? ...yeah, I give up

Alright, fun exercise.

Here are the starting PGs (when healthy) for the 29 other teams in the league:

MIA: Mario Chalmers
NYK: Raymond Felton
IND: George Hill
BRK: Deron Williams
CHI: Derrick Rose
ATL: Jeff Teague
BOS: Rajon Rondo
MIL: Brandon Jennings
PHI: Jrue Holliday
TOR: Kyle Lowry
DET: Brandon Knight
CLE: Kyrie Irving
WAS: John Wall
ORL: Jameer Nelson
CHA: Kemba Walker

SAS: Tony Parker
OKC: Russell Westbrook
MEM: Mike Conley
DEN: Ty Lawson
GSW: Steph Curry
UTA: Mo Williams
HOU: Jeremy Lin
LAL: Steve Nash
POR: Damian Lillard
DAL: Darren Collison
MIN: Ricky Rubio
SAC: Isaiah Thomas
NOH: Greivis Vasquez
PHO: Goran Dragic

Copy that list and bold who you think Chris is faster than.

I think you'll find he's actually well below average by NBA standards.

 

[LyleLanley]

Rivers starts for the Pelicans?

 

[obijkenobi]

Heat/Spurs Finals? My body is ready

I hate you :*(

 

[diehard]

lol nobody is going to get sucked into that Troll, and you still took the time to type all those names.

 

[DY_nasty]

Cherry picking bad plays and single them out without mentioning the good plays is not backing up his statements, because every player makes bad plays during a game. Every one of them.

He thinks Earl Clark is good too, how about that?

Earl Clark is playing well. Is it sustainable? Even he doesn't think so - nobody does.

And you don't need to cherry pick YNBs plays. Lets be real here...

 

[The Frankman]

Peter Vecsey @PeterVecsey1 about 3 hours ago
Most interesting fact learned deadline day: Bucks were in final hunt 4 both Redick & Josh. Would've had Smith had offered Monta or Jennings

You gotta be shitting me. Why didn't they offer Monta?

 

[Justin Timberlake]

Rivers starts for the Pelicans?

Lately he has.

....

yeah, its pretty sad lol

 

[obijkenobi]

Earl Clark is playing well. Is it sustainable? Even he doesn't think so - nobody does.

And you don't need to cherry pick YNBs plays. Lets be real here...

On top of that, if he actually watched the video, Coach Nick went after Durant, Westbrook, and Brooks

 

[jjasper]

OKC already has the best offense in the league. I would rather have traded YNotBrook for Marc Gasol or someone like that and amnesty Perkins.

Harden
Sefolosha
Durant
Ibaka
Gasol

Damn son damn

We would have gotten so much worse with trade. Losing a player like Gasol and teaming up Shotcrook with Gay would have sent us straight to the lottery.

 

[LyleLanley]

You gotta be shitting me. Why didn't they offer Monta?

That can't be real. There's no way they'd be that stupid.

 

[Future PhaZe]

And if Westbrook can average 8 assists a game then I'm pretty sure Kyrie would able to do the same. He's still 20 is waaaaaaaaaaaaaay ahead at this age than Westbrook ever was.

Westbrook averaged 8 APG in his second season though.

Not saying that Kyrie isn't a great player...his scoring is unbelievable and should be consistent even through his early-mid 30's, but Westbrook may have better court vision.

 

[Black Mamba]

CP3 is still better than Parker.

Also the '07 Hornets missed the playoffs because West missed 30 games (winning record when he played). Paul's great but even he can't make Marc Jackson relevant compared to West. Rasual Butler was also starting.

CP3 isn't a fast PG but he is a master at changing pace. And while not being speedy, he isn't a slow plodder.

Look, TP is great but we've seen the Spurs chug along without him. The Clippers basically fell apart without CP3.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Vasquez is the Hornets' PG (and he's very good but not that fast)

 

[Truelize]

I think Parker has most def benefited from Pop's incredible system and the HOF player he has played with. Pop's offense is like Bruce Lee's fighting style. Get rid of the fluff and wasted movements and fine tune what is dangerous.
But he is highly skilled and plays extremely responsible, mature basketball. TP doesn't make many bad decisions. He plays more conservative than some of the flashier PGs in the league but that's his genius.

Stockon also benefited hugely from the system he played in and the HOF player he played with. How good must you be when every time you come down the floor the defense knows what you are likely going to do and you still do it? Ridiculous precision teamwork and execution of the pick and roll system. None better.

Both Parker and Stockon developed their outside shot as their careers progressed and became even more dangerous. Which only helped them execute the offense they played in.


Nash benefited from the system he played in in Phoenix (and somewhat in Dallas) but in my opinion it was a situation that Nash's skills gave the Suns the ability to play like they did. Not saying that no other pg could have had similar success in that system with that roster, but.... I'm kinda saying that no other pg would have had similar success. Ya know?
Nash's play style was a bit different than others before him. He most definitely learned from watching Stockon and Kidd in learning angles but his vision was better. He seemed to anticipate where a player would be better than anyone I had seen play before, which appeared more remarkable because their system seemed so free lance (which it wasn't of course, not entirely).
I don't know how Nash's skill set was really that different than others in the league but he did things that others didnt. His quick "no jump" layups, the way he would keep his dribble alive as he went through the key and how he always seemed to be moving with the ball (where as a lot of PGs just stand snd pound the ball or do iso moves).
Simple and small things that I didn't see other players doing at the time.

I don't have more energy to write. Already written too much probably. But I always liked Nash for how different his style was.
I'm not saying he was the best ever. But I think he deserves to be in the conversation for best pg ever.

I also think that picking a best PG ever is near impossible. But I enjoy the conversation.

 

[Liquidsnake]

So Dwight was being stupid at shoot around today.

 

[Truelize]

You gotta be shitting me. Why didn't they offer Monta?

Cause Josh said he wanted him there. Probably worried about resigning him if they didnt do as he told.

 

[Canuck76]

If Westbrook is a bad PG then what is Kyrie?

So a bad pg averages 22pts 8ast and 5rbs? Wow pretty high standards these days.

Westbrook hate continues to spiral out of control. I'd love to see him traded and OKC not even make WCF. But they won't do that because they're not forum posters who love to exaggerate to the nth degree.

Kyrie is probably the closest thing we have right now to a MJ/Kobe successor. He does play PG but his scoring and his feel for the game is on another level. He could easily play SG if needed. And he's amazingly clutch. He really reminds me of those two in that way that he can take over a game easily. He will probably end up deserving an MVP trophy, may not end up getting it though. CP3 still doesn't have one.

Also get rivers the hell of that pg list. Vasquez is their pg and has actually been like, probably a top 10 pg this season. Don't disrespect him like that

 

[Vahagn]

So Dwight was being stupid at shoot around today.

Oh god what did he do now

 

[Vahagn]

So a bad pg averages 22pts 8ast and 5rbs? Wow pretty high standards these days.

Westbrook hate continues to spiral out of control. I'd love to see him traded and OKC not even make WCF. But they won't do that because they're not forum posters who love to exaggerate to the nth degree.

Kyrie is probably the closest thing we have right now to a MJ/Kobe successor. He does play PG but his scoring and his feel for the game is on another level. He could easily play SG if needed. And he's amazingly clutch. He really reminds me of those two in that way that he can take over a game easily. He will probably end up deserving an MVP trophy, may not end up getting it though. CP3 still doesn't have one.

Lebron and Durant would like a word with you

 

[Dominican Power]

So a bad pg averages 22pts 8ast and 5rbs? Wow pretty high standards these days.

Westbrook hate continues to spiral out of control. I'd love to see him traded and OKC not even make WCF. But they won't do that because they're not forum posters who love to exaggerate to the nth degree.

Kyrie is probably the closest thing we have right now to a MJ/Kobe successor. He does play PG but his scoring and his feel for the game is on another level. He could easily play SG if needed. And he's amazingly clutch. He really reminds me of those two in that way that he can take over a game easily. He will probably end up deserving an MVP trophy, may not end up getting it though. CP3 still doesn't have one.

He's too fragile to bang bodies with bigger players. Were people suggesting the same thing to Rose? Because him and Kyrie are a lot a like, except for the better shooting. Cleveland is so stupid for not drafting Drummond. Kyrie doesn't need a ball hog at the 2, just someone who can stretch the floor.

 

[thekad]

Too bad CP3 will never win an MVP with Lebron and Durant in the league. If Kobe didn't steal the one in 2008, no one would be claiming Parker was better right now.

 

[diehard]

Hey look a PG discussion and i'm silent.

how far we've come.

 

[MorisUkunRasik]

Hey look a PG discussion and i'm silent.

how far we've come.

Thats because Utah's best PG is probably in college, Rondo's dead and Deron is recovering from his cankle injury.

 

[Canuck76]

Lebron and Durant would like a word with you

I didn't mean to diss those two. Those guys are so beefy and tall and more SF, that i consider them a bit different and sort of something else

 

[Justin Timberlake]

Also the '07 Hornets missed the playoffs because West missed 30 games (winning record when he played). Paul's great but even he can't make Marc Jackson relevant compared to West. Rasual Butler was also starting.

West missed 30 games. OK. But he had a young, healthy Tyson Chandler for all but 9. Peja was injured most of the season too, but that bench wasn't all that bad. Just look at the 6-8th in the West that year. CP3 could have done it.

CP3 isn't a fast PG but he is a master at changing pace. And while not being speedy, he isn't a slow plodder.

That would be a fine defense if CP3's "changes of pace" were good enough to make up for Parker's raw speed advantage. But they don't. TP is better at creating shots for himself and his teammates. No one can guard him. The defense is terrified every possession.

Look, TP is great but we've seen the Spurs chug along without him. The Clippers basically fell apart without CP3.

Well, yeah. Gregg Popovich vs Vinny Del Negro. Tim Duncan vs. Blake Griffin.

We'd say the same thing if CP3 was on the Spurs or if Tony was on the Clippers. Spurs would win with or without CP, and Clippers would lose if they didn't have Tony. Thats more of a slight at Vinny and his incompetence than a statement about either one of them.

 

[Liquidsnake]

Oh god what did he do now

They were asking him about what Kobe said last night during his speech, and he shrugged it off as "Nothing new". Was said to have rolled his eyes.

Said yesterday was basically what ever.


The dude will not be able to understand the colors he wears. I don't expect him too, he's renting it.

 

[Justin Timberlake]

Also get rivers the hell of that pg list. Vasquez is their pg and has actually been like, probably a top 10 pg this season. Don't disrespect him like that

Vasquez is the Hornets' PG (and he's very good but not that fast)

Geez guys alright. NOH does some shitty 2 PG crap right now so I'm pretty sure Rivers would guard Paul and vice versa but I'll edit it in.

 

[Psychological Intellect]

I didn't mean to diss those two. Those guys are so beefy and tall and more SF, that i consider them a bit different and sort of something else

So you consider the pg that is 3 inches shorter and not nearly as athletic as Bron,KD,MJ or Kobe to be the closest player to kobe/MJ in the league today? Kyrie is very skilled and a great scorer/shooter but cmon now.

 

[diehard]

Thats because Utah's best PG is probably in college, Rondo's dead and Deron is recovering from his cankle injury.

I won the Rondo thing, i need to move on.

Deron looked better last game but will prob never be 3rd-4th year Deron again.

Jazz's best PG is a 2nd year Shooting Guard. Think about that.

 

[Vahagn]

West missed 30 games. OK. But he had a young, healthy Tyson Chandler for all but 9. Peja was injured most of the season too, but that bench wasn't all that bad. Just look at the 6-8th in the West that year. CP3 could have done it.



That would be a fine defense if CP3's "changes of pace" were good enough to make up for Parker's raw speed advantage. But they don't. TP is better at creating shots for himself and his teammates. No one can guard him. The defense is terrified every possession.



Well, yeah. Gregg Popovich vs Vinny Del Negro. Tim Duncan vs. Blake Griffin.

We'd say the same thing if CP3 was on the Spurs or if Tony was on the Clippers. Spurs would win with or without CP, and Clippers would lose if they didn't have Tony. Thats more of a slight at Vinny and his incompetence than a statement about either one of them.

Wait, you don't actually believe this right? Unless you mean to say, the Spurs would win with or without CP or Tony, and the Clippers would lose if they didn't have Tony or CP3. Basically saying Pop could outcoach Vinny that badly that neither one could save the Clippers.


You really think Tony on the Clippers make that team a better team than CP3 would?

They were asking him about what Kobe said last night during his speech, and he shrugged it off as "Nothing new". Was said to have rolled his eyes.

Said yesterday was basically what ever.


The dude will not be able to understand the colors he wears. I don't expect him too, he's renting it.

And there's actually idiots saying we need to shaft Kobe on the final year of his contract and possibly career so we can increase our chances of getting Dwight? People have lost their damn mind. If Dwight won't fall in line behind Kobe who's a 5 time champion and synonymous with this franchise, who will he fall in line behind? F this clown.

 

[Nori Chan]

Jazz's best PG is a 2nd year Shooting Guard. Think about that.

and is a very pretty girl i might add

 

[Justin Timberlake]

Unless you mean to say, the Spurs would win with or without CP or Tony, and the Clippers would lose if they didn't have Tony or CP3

Yes, thats what I meant.

You really think Tony on the Clippers make that team a better team than CP3 would?

Yes.

A team without an offensive plan is best served with a ball handler who has an unstoppable ability to go to the rim. TP + Blake pick and roll would be nuts, and the Clips have shooters to surround him.

Regardless, I don't like these type of hypotheticals. Its extremely speculative and I think players need to be evaluated for what they do on their team, not what they could do on others.

 

[Black Mamba]

West missed 30 games. OK. But he had a young, healthy Tyson Chandler for all but 9. Peja was injured most of the season too, but that bench wasn't all that bad. Just look at the 6-8th in the West that year. CP3 could have done it.

that team started Rasual Butler all season and Marc Jackson's final year for 30 (Marc, not the Warriors Coach). It also started Desmond Mason almost all year. Those are 3 trash players starting.

The bench was Janero Pargo, Devon Brown, and Bobby Jackson. Jackson being the only player worth 2 licks but he had already declined badly by that time.

That team was trash outside of Chandler-Cp3-West. So with West missing 30 games and CP3 missing 18, it had no chance to make the playoffs in the west.

That would be a fine defense if CP3's "changes of pace" were good enough to make up for Parker's raw speed advantage. But they don't. TP is better at creating shots for himself and his teammates. No one can guard him. The defense is terrified every possession.

Teams are way more afraid of CP3 than Parker. Don't kid yourself. Also, Cp3 is much better at creating shots for himself. Parker uses way more screens to get his shots off.

There's a reason why CP3s end of game stats of pretty ridiculous.

Parker being faster doesn't change the fact that Paul is the better basketball player by nearly every known measure. Paul is a better shot creator, distributor, shooter (don't give me 3pt% when parker only shoots 1 again and always wide open), FT shooter, defender, ball handler, etc. Parker gets to the paint more. And he also plays off ball a lot more and has a lot more shots created for him.

And of course it's pretty obvious when watching. CP3's control of the ball and where he wants to go is pretty amazing to watch. Parker is a very good PG who is placed into a perfect spot to utilize his skills. CP3 makes his team no matter what.

We'd say the same thing if CP3 was on the Spurs or if Tony was on the Clippers. Spurs would win with or without CP, and Clippers would lose if they didn't have Tony. Thats more of a slight at Vinny and his incompetence than a statement about either one of them.

Spurs beat OKC last year with CP3 over Parker, Clips still get swept with Parker vs Parker or Cp3 Spurs.

 

[Rodeo Clown]

This page sucks.

 

[linsivvi]

Earl Clark is playing well. Is it sustainable? Even he doesn't think so - nobody does.

And you don't need to cherry pick YNBs plays. Lets be real here...

He never bothered to show the good plays he made. It's fine to be biased, we all are. That just made him a fan instead of a real analyst. Coach Nick is purely entertainment and nothing more.

 

[Liquidsnake]

Wait, you don't actually believe this right? Unless you mean to say, the Spurs would win with or without CP or Tony, and the Clippers would lose if they didn't have Tony or CP3. Basically saying Pop could outcoach Vinny that badly that neither one could save the Clippers.


You really think Tony on the Clippers make that team a better team than CP3 would?





And there's actually idiots saying we need to shaft Kobe on the final year of his contract and possibly career so we can increase our chances of getting Dwight? People have lost their damn mind. If Dwight won't fall in line behind Kobe who's a 5 time champion and synonymous with this franchise, who will he fall in line behind? F this clown.

I guess we didn't fully understand what was going on in Orlando. I thought it was the teams fault. We were wrong. Dwight is not right in the head.

 

[giri]

This page sucks.

+1

 

[Flash]

This page sucks.

one good thing about spurs getting knocked out of the playoffs is JT disappearing for another 8 or 9 months.

 

[Truelize]

Whoa. CP3 is better at creating shots for himself?
What kind of shots? One foot fade away jumpers at the free throw line?
TP is ridiculously skilled at getting to the hoop and even better at getting inside the paint (just below the free throw line) for his floater.

What does CP3 have that is similar?

I'm asking an honest question here. I don't recall seeing CP3 having a "go-to" move yet.
He is can iso the crap outta someone and get to the hoop yes. But what does he do consistently that he does well enough that he finds a way even against great defense?

 

[Vahagn]

Since you guys were lamenting bad Alicia Keys...Some good new Alicia Keys

 

[giri]

Whoa. CP3 is better at creating shots for himself?
What kind of shots? One foot fade away jumpers at the free throw line?
TP is ridiculously skilled at getting to the hoop and even better at getting inside the paint (just below the free throw line) for his floater.

What does CP3 have that is similar?

I'm asking an honest question here. I don't recall seeing CP3 having a "go-to" move yet.
He is can iso the crap outta someone and get to the hoop yes. But what does he do consistently that he does well enough that he finds a way even against great defense?

I'll be blunt, but it's the only truthful answer that will actually further your knowledge of bball play in any genuine way.

Stop talking.

Stop posting.

Go watch CP3 play. a lot. in 4th quarters. even of just this season.

You obviously haven't done enough of that.

 

[Justin Timberlake]

that team started Rasual Butler all season and Marc Jackson's final year for 30 (Marc, not the Warriors Coach). It also started Desmond Mason almost all year. Those are 3 trash players starting.

The bench was Janero Pargo, Devon Brown, and Bobby Jackson. Jackson being the only player worth 2 licks but he had already declined badly by that time.

That team was trash outside of Chandler-Cp3-West. So with West missing 30 games and CP3 missing 18, it had no chance to make the playoffs in the west.

Marc Jackson was 9th in the team in minutes, man. Pargo, Brown, and Jackson weren't even that bad (for bench players). Chandler-CP3-West is a ridiculous combo.

The Brand-Maggette Clippers outplaced them dude. Thats shameful.

Teams are way more afraid of CP3 than Parker. Don't kid yourself. Also, Cp3 is much better at creating shots for himself. Parker uses way more screens to get his shots off.

There's a reason why CP3s end of game stats of pretty ridiculous.

Parker being faster doesn't change the fact that Paul is the better basketball player by nearly every known measure. Paul is a better shot creator, distributor, shooter (don't give me 3pt% when parker only shoots 1 again and always wide open), FT shooter, defender, ball handler, etc. Parker gets to the paint more. And he also plays off ball a lot more and has a lot more shots created for him.

And of course it's pretty obvious when watching. CP3's control of the ball and where he wants to go is pretty amazing to watch. Parker is a very good PG who is placed into a perfect spot to utilize his skills. CP3 makes his team no matter what.

CP3 is an incredible player.

But he is not better at creating shots for himself. Quality shots especially. The vast majority of his shots are jumpers. He's good at it, but not Parker level. Not even close.

This discussion is beginning to tire me. Tony is being devalued because he plays within a winning system and does it well. I don't see that as a fault, but I guess bitches love big assist numbers so whatever. Last nights game speaks for itself.

 

[Dominican Power]

This page sucks.

Rubio>>>Love

 

[Black Mamba]

Marc Jackson was 9th in the team in minutes, man. Pargo, Brown, and Jackson weren't even that bad (for bench players). Chandler-CP3-West is a ridiculous combo.

The Brand-Maggette Clippers outplaced them dude. Thats shameful.

Paul and West missed 58 games. Brand-Maggette was 1 shot away from the WCF the year prior.

CP3 is an incredible player.

But he is not better at creating shots for himself. Quality shots especially. The vast majority of his shots are jumpers. He's good at it, but not Parker level. Not even close.

This discussion is beginning to tire me. Tony is being devalued because he plays within a winning system and does it well. I don't see that as a fault, but I guess bitches love big assist numbers so whatever. Last nights game speaks for itself.

Parker is assisted a lot more on his shots and CP3.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201211070LAC.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201211190SAS.html

If you want to compare head to head this year regarding speaking for itself...

 

[MorisUkunRasik]

I disagree. Chris Paul is a very good game, but I think Donkey Kong is the best videogame ever.

 

[RedAssedApe]

People just have bias against the French.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

The Clippers have a 115 ORtg with CP3 on the court which is pretty ridiculous considering that their centers can't score and their starting wings suck.

 

[Truelize]

I'll be blunt, but it's the only truthful answer that will actually further your knowledge of bball play in any genuine way.

Stop talking.

Stop posting.

Go watch CP3 play. a lot. in 4th quarters. even of just this season.

You obviously haven't done enough of that.

Wow! You went there?

That's your best answer? So you assume that you know so much more about his sport than I do that you need to take your comments to a personal level?

You need to tell me to shut up and stop posting?


Unless you have been playing, coaching and watching this sport for over 30 years I guarantee the time you have put into this sport pales in comparison to what I have.
And I definitely guarantee that you wouldn't have the balls to talk to me like that face to face.

I asked an honest question, pretending to not have my own incredibly strong opinions based on my own knowledge because I enjoy seeing others points of view.

So either contribute to the conversation and answer the question... Or take your own highly educated advice.

 

[Justin Timberlake]

Parker is assisted a lot more on his shots and CP3.

So he's better at playing off the ball too? So much for better by every known measure.

Though I don't see how stating how often Tony is assisted has anything to do with how well he creates shots for himself. Whats next, you're gonna mention how often Tony creates off pick-and-roll? Cause hes better at that too.

Oh lord. This thread fucking sucks, I agree. I'm happy we're in community now. At least now no one reads this shit.

 

[Psychological Intellect]

Speaking of Parker and CP3. Coach nick just put up a breakdown of the game last night including how Parker benefits from the Spurs' system.