Ok, then we don't disagree. I just don't think he should ever start over a healthy Pau.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26ap8pCJ62c
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2013 Feb NBA Season lOT| Controlling it like a man, bruh
- Thread starter reilo
- Start date
Ok, then we don't disagree. I just don't think he should ever start over a healthy Pau.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26ap8pCJ62c
LOL how did i not watch this
Psychological Intellect
Banned
That skills video doesn't say anything.
Fenderputty
Banned
Dat Antoni small ball.
You're taking this way too seriously. It's Justin Timberlake.
theignoramus
Member
CP has the 2nd highest offensive rating in the league for the last two years with lesser talent around him.
Lol at people saying YNB should have been an SG and Harden the PG on that team.
If this season has proven anything it's that Harden is a much much much much much better scorer than YNB, it's not even close.
Also, the difference between Tony and CP3's point guard ability is pretty simple. In LAC and NOH CP3 orchestrated the offense. In SA Pop orchestrates the offense, not Tony. It's much prettier basketball than what the Clippers run when they're not dunking, but it's not because of Tony that their offense is so good.
Even when he sits, and all 3 of their main guys sit, the offense looks flawless. It's a purely system thing, and Pop is a god dang genius.
If this season has proven anything it's that Harden is a much much much much much better scorer than YNB, it's not even close.
Also, the difference between Tony and CP3's point guard ability is pretty simple. In LAC and NOH CP3 orchestrated the offense. In SA Pop orchestrates the offense, not Tony. It's much prettier basketball than what the Clippers run when they're not dunking, but it's not because of Tony that their offense is so good.
Even when he sits, and all 3 of their main guys sit, the offense looks flawless. It's a purely system thing, and Pop is a god dang genius.
I think their idea was to make him think he was nothing more than a 6th man, 17 ppg scorer so they could low ball him and keep him on the cheap. Fucked up.
And fuck everyone who thought he should have taken a pay cut in order to stay with OKC. The dude is showing he can be a superstar calibre SG and a centerpiece to a team.
it's not so much "you're a PG so you should only have 10 ppg". I'm saying he should have been given PG duties because he is clearly a better decision maker. Isn't that exactly whats happening in Houston with him and Lin?
Westbrook would still be guarding the opposing PGs and the opposing PG would still be guarding him. Unless they want to get burned by Harden.
Psychological Intellect
Banned
You're right
wow if anybody thinks that. Most people think OKC was being cheap. Wasn't the difference between what OKC and Houston offered 5 mil?Then there's the whole one hour to decide thing.
THEN there's the whole not amnestying Perk and Ibaka getting paaid.
Future PhaZe
Member
No one is going to pay Clark MLE money.
But what offers he gets below that I'm not sure.
But what offers he gets below that I'm not sure.
No the point is, that Westbrick is such a bad PG, that even though he's a worse SG than Harden, you're arguing Harden should be the PG of that team. Take out Harden's name and put in a healthy Wade's or Kobe and you see how silly that is. The guy who's a much better SG than YNB shouldn't have to play PG because YNB is such an ass PG. That's not maximizing talent at all.
Also, Lin and Harden share those duties. I think Lin looks to pass a lot more than Harden does. Lin does get more assists, although not a lot more. Harden is clearly a top 5 wing scorer in this league and any time he has to play PG because your team's PG makes bad decisions is just going to hurt the team.
Future PhaZe
Member
If Westbrook is a bad PG then what is Kyrie?
Black Mamba
Member
All YNB needs is someone to take the ball out of his hands when he goes on one of his out of control sprees.
That's what Harden did. They don't have that person anymore since Martin sucks and Durant only does it a little bit.
That's what Harden did. They don't have that person anymore since Martin sucks and Durant only does it a little bit.
Zeus Molecules
illegal immigrants are stealing our air
The LLE maybe
ryutaro's mama
Member
Speaking of all this...
Hey Lakers-Age, remember how awesome Jordan Farmar told us he would be in New Jersey?
How he was tired of backing up Fish and had to go?
WHO HE PLAY FO'?
theignoramus
Member
umm, someone whose on a team whose next best players are about as good as the third and fourth options on the Thunder?
and anyway,Irving's efG% is 53% to Chuckbrook's 46%, there's no comparison. I watched one of the Cavs games the other week and damn near every time the ball left Irving's hand his teammates would put up a bad shot or turn the ball over. I mean, you see Zeller play out there? He looks like he should have stayed an extra year in college.
edit: Damn, Zeller used up all four years of college and this is the result?
The Frankman
Banned
Truly Worst Zeller.
WesternHeretic
Member
An O-Guard.
LOL this gave me a good laugh
LegendofJoe
Member
Kyrie is a mix of Steve Nash and Tony Parker. He has the skills of Nash and the quickness/killer instinct of Parker. I'd kill to have him in Charlotte. He's going to win an MVP award or two before it's all said and done.
Red Blaster
Member
Kyrie's teammates are neocav trash but he's definitely a small shooting guard right now
Let's slow it down there buddy. Nash is one of the 4 or 5 best pure PG's ever to play the game.
The Tony Parker comparison is apt, also a little bit of AI with his crossovers too.
LegendofJoe
Member
I should have said shooting skills, he isn't anywhere near the passer Nash is. Yet...
jordan0386
Member
Doesnt have anyone worth passing to.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
Kyrie's court vision is pretty bad and would be regardless of his teammates.
It doesn't matter that much though since his scoring is so good.
It doesn't matter that much though since his scoring is so good.
A better player than Westbrook.
It's scary to think how good he'll be in a few seasons.
LegendofJoe
Member
You know the hype and attention that Kyrie is getting has to eat at Wall and Rose. I bet they hate him, Wall especially.
Dominican Power
Member
Stockton, Magic, Isiah, Robertson, Kidd>>>>>
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
Y Not Brook.
Stockton better than Nash loool
Compare those numbers to Durant and Harden's in the month of February. Parker is great, but don't go overboard. He's in the same spot as he was last year in terms of MVP consideration: ~5th. Hell, everyone had Duncan as the MVP of the Spurs this season until he got injured.
Honestly I can't argue with any of those guys. But Nash could easily be on that list too as a pure PG. Maybe he wasn't the rebounder or defender that Kidd and Oscar were. I think Nash in his prime could run a team as well as anyone to ever do it.
Justin Timberlake
Member
Damn, I didn't know Pop was out there passing the ball and making shots.
So every time MJ scored in the triangle, was it because he played in a system which funnels shots to the shooting guard? Do you credit Phil for all of MJ's success too?
No doubt Tony benefits from having Pop, but that doesn't make him any worse. Would Amare be a better defender if he had Pop from day 1? Undoubtedly. Would Josh Smith be more careful with his shot selection? Sure. And would Chris Paul run a more efficient offense? Of course. Every player is subject to a different environment (incl. family, school, coaches etc), and we should take them as who they are, and not who they could have been.
And Paul's game, as great as he is, has a ton of weaknesses. He dribbles the air out of the ball. He isn't very quick. In fact he's slow. He is chronically injured. He gambles on defense because of his slow lateral movement, and frequently can't stay in front of his man. And despite playing with one of the most athletic big men of all time, he hasn't elevated Blake's game to match its potential.
Most importantly, regardless of circumstance, he hasn't won shit. He has missed the playoffs three times out of 7. Look at the 07 Hornets and tell me that team didn't have the talent necessary to make the playoffs. His team got blown out by 58 in a critical game 4 (against the Denver Nuggets of all teams -- CP3 had 4 pts and 6 turnovers that game). Hes never gotten farther than the 2nd round.
He's never had Tim Duncan but he hasn't had scrubs either. He's underachieved, and hasn't matched his pedigree.
Not even true. Spurs are +4.0 pts per 100 possessions with Tony on then off.
Our bench is good, and its amazing to me how much Pop can do with so little talent, but lets not forget its Manu Ginobili handling the ball when Tony sits. Pop doesn't give the reigns to some scrub. You need a brilliant ball handler in order to run the Spurs' offense.
Dominican Power
Member
And if Westbrook can average 8 assists a game then I'm pretty sure Kyrie would able to do the same. He's still 20 is waaaaaaaaaaaaaay ahead at this age than Westbrook ever was.
theignoramus
Member
Kyrie's vision is not even 1/10th of what Steve's is, when it comes to passing ability. Calm down.
Psychological Intellect
Banned
If we're comparing February stats, Parker has KD beat. Harden is beasting though. I'm actually interested in who'll win Western conference player of the month lol.
Without explaining everything I'll just tackle the Jordan/Triangle thing as a contrast to the Parker/Pop system thing.
While I'm not disparaging Parker by saying he's below Paul as a guy who orchestrates and runs his team, let's not get it twisted. Jordan was more dominant scoring before Phil came on board. He was more dominant scoring and getting assists before the Triangle. While the Triangle doesn't make Jordan more lethal (he'd be lethal in any system, just like Kobe or Lebron), it makes role players better by allowing the system to create opportunities instead of their individual brilliance.
As people have stated, the Spurs have a well oiled machine and it runs smoothly with or without Parker. It Obviously runs smoother with Parker, but it runs just fine without him. Whereas we've seen what Jordan can do individually outside of the Triangle, we haven't seen what Parker can do individually in running a team without a system. Even D-Will who ran the Jazz system great recently admitted he's better in a system. What Paul does better than everyone in this league is totally control the flow of the game with the ball in his hands on practically every play. He's unmatched at that imo.
Justin Timberlake
Member
I mean, I don't think Tony is better than Bron or KD. Those guys are nuts right now.
But I firmly believe he is the best PG in the league. Its odd to me that I'm getting so much resistance on this topic cause we had a pretty solid consensus on that point last year in this thread.
And Tony has been even better.
theignoramus
Member
CP slow? and an underachiever?...yeah, I give up
LegendofJoe
Member
lol, they'd be absolutely lethal with Paul. That would need to be vetoed for basketball reasons by Stern.
Read the next post I made. I was referring to Nash's shooting ability not his passing skills.
Well I can agree with that then.
I don't see how it would matter to Rose.
Rose already has an MVP.
Kyrie is already in cleveland.
Gasol would help cover up for ibaka's stupidity on defense a lot too.