ThisWreckage
Banned
This isn't true. Dirk kills KG in head to head match ups nearly every time. KG has never been able to guard him.
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2013 NBA Finals |OT| The "Big 3" looks to hang another banner... against the Heat
- Thread starter reilo
- Start date
This isn't true. Dirk kills KG in head to head match ups nearly every time. KG has never been able to guard him.
2011 Playoff Dirk was one of the greatest individual stretches of basketball ever.
I take Dirk's deadly scoring over KG's face up play making any day. Dirk's style of play ha longevity KG's doesn't.
curlyfriski
Banned
KG at age 34 had a significantly better assist percentage than Dirk does now. He basically ran the offense in Minnesota.
God. Watched highlights of '05 Spurs/Pistons. Manu is SO much quicker, it's crazy I don't remember him like that. Timmy's obviously a lot more mobile as well. His mid-range game is probably what changed the most, dropping off a lot since his bank shot days..
It's sort of bizarre how long San Antonio's been doing this. Since the Pistons being relevant days, and Timmy since the year after MJ left. So close to number 5, stepping on the tape holding back the crowds with 30 seconds left game 6. So tough to swallow, but he's one of the greatest. Really the best player on the court for the Spurs tonight. Inspiring.
It's sort of bizarre how long San Antonio's been doing this. Since the Pistons being relevant days, and Timmy since the year after MJ left. So close to number 5, stepping on the tape holding back the crowds with 30 seconds left game 6. So tough to swallow, but he's one of the greatest. Really the best player on the court for the Spurs tonight. Inspiring.
Fucking legendary that performance. Damn.
FullMetalx117
Member
Lol...damn
ThisWreckage
Banned
Like I said, KG has never been able to guard Dirk. KG can only pick on SMALLER Euro players.
iamshadowlark
Banned
Dirk is definitely terrible more often than not on defense. He tries I guess but he could never move laterally. KG with his athleticism was just too much.
Barack Lesnar
Banned
Anyone siding with KG in this has a rudimentary grasp of the game.
E: Not surprised its LLL'ers like iamshadowlark leading the charge.
E: Not surprised its LLL'ers like iamshadowlark leading the charge.
Black Mamba
Member
I meant 24/15/5. Sorry.
TS% is one aspect. Dirk is a better scorer. I won't deny that. But KG is a better play maker. Better O-rebounder. Better screener.
KG's prime, offensively, was as good as Dirk's once you factor in the other things he does outside of scoring on offense.
Even if you want to argue it was slightly worse, his defense was a lot better than Dirk's. World's better. That makes KG better overall.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
Dirk wasn't the playmaker (for others) that most other all-time great scorers were, but having a big man who is a near automatic three point shooter when open does a lot for spacing that helps other players.
I just watched Duncans post game interview.... I hate to repeat sentiments already made in this thread but I really feel bad for the guy, amazing competitor. Glad he's not retiring. Pretty dumb questions tho.... How the fuck is he supposed to know what Manu is thinking about his career, fuck off reporter.
San Antonio's main strength is their incredible continuity due to finding a good core of players+coach early. They also avoided the usual problem of exploding egos; it probably helps to be in a low-spotlight city like San Antonio and having a quiet leader like Tim Duncan.
Black Mamba
Member
I think KG and Dirk are both amazing players and I think they are both franchise cornerstones, but with both players you have to surround them with specific types of talent in order to win
Dirk needed a defensive C to help anchor a defense cause all of Dirk's teams have always been prolific on offense. Unfortunately Raef Lafrentz and Erick Dampier weren't answers; Tyson Chandler was
KG can anchor a defense but he needs scorers and shooters around him
Dirk needed a defensive C to help anchor a defense cause all of Dirk's teams have always been prolific on offense. Unfortunately Raef Lafrentz and Erick Dampier weren't answers; Tyson Chandler was
KG can anchor a defense but he needs scorers and shooters around him
Mamba's is a little off when he says KG is as good at offense as Dirk (as if Dirk doesn't set screens)
But offense/defense - its KG.
If it was me though? I'd rather get Dirk and get a defensive C than get KG because Dirk's shown that he can take care of the load if he has some back line defensive help.
KG did revolutionize the game - first PF at 7 feet with true guard skills.
But offense/defense - its KG.
If it was me though? I'd rather get Dirk and get a defensive C than get KG because Dirk's shown that he can take care of the load if he has some back line defensive help.
KG did revolutionize the game - first PF at 7 feet with true guard skills.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
I definitely pick KG.
But I'm also telling 20 year old KG to increase his range out three feet further so those twos become threes, lol. KG was a better player despite that though.
ThisWreckage
Banned
Dirk. Loyal player that won both an MVP and a Finals MVP as the true number one option.
KG is obviously a much better defender. Nobody was debating that.
I don't think it's as simple as saying offense+defense>ridiculously efficient offense. Basketball is a team game. The question is, what gives you a better chance to win a title as a franchise cornerstone, one of the best scorers ever, or a really great defender with a good offense? Well, the evidence seems to show that you can win a title with either guy, but only Dirk can win as the lone superstar.
Black Mamba
Member
Wait, are you insinuating KG isn't loyal?
Because if you are, you need to put the bottle down.
KG. Easily. Just like Duncan gives you the best shot of any PF.
Not that I'd complain if Dirk was my franchise cornerstone because he's also an all-timer. But KG was the best 2-way PF ever after Duncan but had his prime wasted with the worst supporting cast any superstar has had for their entire prime.
KG wasn't just "good offense." KG was all-time offensive player. If you want to say Dirk was a bit better, fine, but the gap isn't large at all.
Psychological Intellect
Banned
It's not even 3 ft. I was going to mention that. I don't understand why he didn't work on threes. His favorite shot is like 1 ft in.
Well summed up
FullMetalx117
Member
I'd pick dirk. And I would pick him for the loyalty he has shown the MAVS even through all the first round exits. I thought he would definitely team up with Nash when he became a free agent in 2010 after being a first round exit as a second seed.
Yes KG has been on some pretty shitty teams. But like dirk he could have tried to make it work or urged the front office to gain some competence. Instead he needs to be traded?
MorisUkunRasik
Member
KG is/was a better player but that 2011 playoff run was insane.
Kobe got one extra ring and one extra wife.
also wouldn't get subbed out in the series clincher
I had to deal with college-age roommates tonight. "Hell yeah Lebron! GO HEAT. ooh. Ray Allen? When did they get him?? Ray RAY!". Explaining she likes the Heat cause of Dwyane Wade. Another saying Ray's her boy but he did leave her Celtics... "oh well!". I had to leave to the internet stream within a half of the 3rd quarter of this, good god.
I really do think the Heat respect the Spurs an alarming amount. It's pretty cool to see, and made it easier to be happy for the Heat and especially Lebron, Battier. Tough but yeah. It's cool to see good sportsmanship once in awhile.
ThisWreckage
Banned
No, what I'm saying is that Dirk is a franchise player and has stayed with one team his whole career. KG had to leave to get a ring. Period. That's the history of things. It's a fact. KG joined forces and a championship team was actually built around Dirk. No one will ever be able to say that a championship team was built around KG.
iamshadowlark
Banned
Honestly a three game series means nothing.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=garneke01&p2=nowitdi01
Dirk is a great scorer which has been noted time after time but he pales in comparison at everything else a forward could do. I mean how many games on that list did dirk get dominated by ten or so rebounds?
Mad props and much respect to both of them...
Even though they are below Kobe on the all time great list
Black Mamba
Member
KG forced a trade? LMAO.
KG never forced a trade. He did the opposite. He refused to demand a trade even though he should have years before he was traded.
KG would still be in Minnesota right now if McHale and the Wolves ownership didn't decide to rebuild on their own and decided to shop him.
KG was loyal to a fault.
This is an immensely stupid criticism.
KG never forced a trade. He did the opposite. He refused to demand a trade even though he should have years before he was traded.
KG would still be in Minnesota right now if McHale and the Wolves ownership didn't decide to rebuild on their own and decided to shop him.
KG was loyal to a fault.
This is an immensely stupid criticism.
brianjones
Member
i'm kinda glad duncan won't tie kobe's rings but on the other hand fuck tha heat
ThisWreckage
Banned
All that shows is that Dirk has dropped 30+ points and even 35+ points on KG several times. So much for his elite defense.
Man who cares about why Kevin Garnett got traded; that has nothing to do with Dirk being the better offensive player.
LOL, Dirk redefined the power forward position. I don't know what your link was supposed to prove besides the fact that Dirk played pretty well in matchups against KG.
LOL, Dirk redefined the power forward position. I don't know what your link was supposed to prove besides the fact that Dirk played pretty well in matchups against KG.
Byakuya769
Member
There will be a lot of fucking for the Heat tonight, play boi.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
If LeBron has another season like the last two (which will be really hard obviously, but it's possible), he'll be tied for second most MVPs ever, second most Finals MVPs ever, and third or fourth most playoff win shares ever while being under 30.
It's kind of incredible how close he is to so many records for both playoff and regular season dominance while only being twenty fucking eight. Ridiculous.
It's kind of incredible how close he is to so many records for both playoff and regular season dominance while only being twenty fucking eight. Ridiculous.
Nightstick11
Banned
I wonder what they said to each other. TD still MVP of his generation.
As for 20-year old Dirk v. KG... I'd take Dirk. You have no clue how good he was unless yoi were cheering against him. Even in 2010 he averaged 53% against the Spurs. He also was not bad on defense, he just played under Nelson.
KG was just a stat-padding jabroni who never figured out how to carry a team. To this day I don't know why he shot fadeaway 20-footers in his prime.
MiamiWesker
Member
Did anyone talk to Bosh after the game? I never saw him, he was as invisible as he was all game.
Wade hugged Tim Duncan first, it was a beautiful moment too.
Wade hugged Tim Duncan first, it was a beautiful moment too.
Dominican Power
Member
MJ wasn't passive enough for series go to 7 in The Finals.
curlyfriski
Banned
Head to head is a stupid metric. Deron Williams used to get the better of CP3 by pushing him around, but it didn't make him a better overall player.
The evidence is so weak and reliant on so many different variables outside any one player's control that it's impossible to draw a conclusion from it. I don't see any fatal flaw in KG's game that would make him bad to build around. Dominant defensive bigs has been the NBA's championship bread and butter from the get-go.
The evidence is so weak and reliant on so many different variables outside any one player's control that it's impossible to draw a conclusion from it. I don't see any fatal flaw in KG's game that would make him bad to build around. Dominant defensive bigs has been the NBA's championship bread and butter from the get-go.