Shaq's got nothing on Hakeeem. TruthFact.
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2013 NBA Finals |OT| The "Big 3" looks to hang another banner... against the Heat
- Thread starter reilo
- Start date
Shaq's got nothing on Hakeeem. TruthFact.
bow down
Then what you shoulda said was. If Timmy and Kobe played together. Who would be the best player on the team, win the most MVP's, win the most Finals MVP's?
Instead you tried to infer that Timmy playing with someone as good as Kobe would win more chips than Kobe playing with someone as good as Timmy...both sides of the equation become equal than.
Timmy won chips with Tony and Manu who are both worse than Kobe. Kobe won chips with Lamar and Pau who are both worse than Timmy. Ya see how that works?
And lest you say "Timmy won more chips"...yea because he had them for more time hence the issue with Kobe only playing for 6 years outside of Shaq's shadow and with a team good enough to compete.
Bottom line: If you wanna argue Timmy>Shaq>Kobe...that's fine. But it's debatable and we're debating. No one here is saying Timmy>Jordan or Kobe>Jordan. We're arguing a debatable issue.
Robert Horry has played with Dream, Shaq, and Duncan. When asked which was the best big man he played with, he said Dream was definitely the best.
I am Michael Bolton
Banned
In pure skill? I wholeheartedly agree. In terms of domination? I give it to Shaq.
And I don't have a problem with that.
theignoramus
Member
who was the Spur that had the massive "fuck you" block on Ray Allen as he raised up to shoot a three? was it Manu?
Fuck what a block that was. momentum changer.
Fuck what a block that was. momentum changer.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Tony Parker had more points in the 4th than Wade and LeBron combined.
And ZERO turnovers.
And ZERO turnovers.
Zeus Molecules
illegal immigrants are stealing our air
Not for nothing that says a lot. We're fans this dude played with them
Black Mamba
Member
If Miami wins, is Timmy still > Shaq?
Shaq 6 Finals, 3 Finals MVP, 4 titles,
Duncan 5 Finals, 3 Finals MVP, 4 titles
Shaq was better on offense, Timmy on defense.
Tim lost as a #1 and #2 seed in the 1st round. Shaq never did. Shaq also won 3 of the 5 series head to head.
Shaq also had a threepete. Timmy never to b2b finals.
So if Miami wins, what is the argument for Timmy > shaq?
Agree with everything, though is Wade really looking that good? 17 points on 7/15 shooting, 2 boards, 2 assists. I mean it's better than some of his Indy games, but Spurs had him mostly bottled up in the second half. 13 of those points were before halftime iirc. I don't want to jinx anything, but he still looks mediocre to me. Or maybe it's just Danny Green's D.
Zeus Molecules
illegal immigrants are stealing our air
Yeah man when I saw that I was like GINOBLIII!!! Lol
I'm not even that mad at Manu taking that bad shot at the end there. He used to make those all the time and still thinks he can.
Overall he had a great Manu-esque game. Loved seeing him fly in out of nowhere to force the turnover, and those passes he made throughout the game were sick. He's still one of the most creative and unpredictable players I've ever seen. I really hope he can keep this up.
Overall he had a great Manu-esque game. Loved seeing him fly in out of nowhere to force the turnover, and those passes he made throughout the game were sick. He's still one of the most creative and unpredictable players I've ever seen. I really hope he can keep this up.
tycoonheart
Member
Yep that was Manu
Irrelevant and completely arbitrary. Those are your self imposed criteria that amount to nothing but message board fodd-- hey wait a minute!
BadAss2961
Member
Momentum changer for me was LeBRondo.
"Guys, i'm not a scorer. I'm just gonna play pg."
Jake Tower
Banned
The Dream swept Shaq in the Finals and sent him to the locker room crying.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
Where do you have Kareem?
ryutaro's mama
Member
When did Black Mamba go crazy?
What have I been missing?
What have I been missing?
Black Mamba
Member
Then how do you decided which one is better?
They have the same postseason success. Shaq is objectively much better on offense, And even thought we can't completely measure it, we all know Duncan is better on defense.
So either your argument is "i simply like Duncan more" or you have actual reasons for your stance. I want to know what they are.
Tell me them.
I don't like to rate players I didn't watch a lot. I wasn't alive in his pre-Laker days.
I actually agree with Cloving that players should be more put into tiers than anything. It's really hard to argue some above the other unless they played head to head like Drob vs hakeem. If we just looked at stats alone, DRob would win.
He absorbed Cloving.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Wasn't there someone here that said that Norris Cole could keep up with Tony Parker?
I think it was that Psychological Intellect guy.
I think it was that Psychological Intellect guy.
I am Michael Bolton
Banned
The Dream swept Shaq in the Finals and sent him to the locker room crying.
That was Shaq's 3rd year in the league. Look at what Shaq did from 2000-2002. Pure domination.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
I can't keep up with the jackass shit that guy says daily.
obijkenobi
Member
That sounds right, but I think there were multiple drive by posts saying that too
TheKaeptain
Banned
Even worse. It was Pimp.
That was maybe my favorite moment in the game. Huge lapse by Spo not to see how far he could take that run (they were up 9). Timmy took over both ends for a few minute stretch, while Lebron sat. Heat never opened up a lead as big the rest of the game.
Bosh, who cares if he's good from long 2's. He's a huge disappointment game 1. Duncan outplayed him by a large margin, and Bosh didn't even compete under the basket.
Wade has looked physically fine his last handful of games, he just looks unengaged. He passed up good shots in the 4th, nearly causing a couple 24 second violations and bad shots. He has no confidence in his shot, and he's not prime Wade anymore so he can't count on his drive. Thing is his shots ok. I think its his hesitation killing him more than any shooting mechanics. He needs to inherit that Kobe mentality of "I don't give a fuck I'm going to keep shooting" but with Lebron on the team he doesn't no what identity to claim.
Lastly, not just the 4 turnovers, but the last few minutes - it was really nice to see a team out there not named the Pacers to run an offense and limit mistakes to end the game. They almost cruised in for an even easier win, but they had 2 bad offensive possessions while milking the clock that I could live with.
I know you said Kareem and Timmy are similar or equal in your eyes.
Do you know how many Finals Kareem's been to? How many MVP's he's won? For how long he was the best player in the league?
Saying Timmy = Kareem is silly I think.
In the post gameinterview Lebron mentioned he asked for a breather at the start of the fourth quarter.
Red Blaster
Member
amazing you can recall a single thing he's posted
CrazyDogg77
Member
Yeah man Manu's creativity and skill have always made him on of my favorite players. Watching this series brings back memories of watching the Spurs as a kid.
BadAss2961
Member
Top 2 big of all time. Him and Wilt.
ryutaro's mama
Member
He's harmless.
A Miami frontrunner that goes radio silent in moments like this.
And 2011.
Don't worry, if the Heat manage to steal Game 2 on Sunday, he'll be back here yapping again.
Black Mamba
Member
All I said was I put Shaq over Duncan. Reilo has an aneurysm over it. Just defending my stance.
I've said numerous times on here my affection for Duncan. It's not like it's a knock on him. I'd have rather watched Kobe and Duncan than Kobe and Shaq.
ryutaro's mama
Member
I have a weird memory, MASTAH BLASTAH.
I have to depower Blur's MASTAH SPLINTAH nonsense by making fun of it
BTW, tough luck on your Grizz losing like that.
We're Sweep Loser-Bros.
obijkenobi
Member
Leonard made him work really hard that triple double
- Accomplishments (which you listed)
- I give some weight to competition, but more on a team level not a head-to-head level
- Importance to position
- Longevity
- Ability on both ends of the floor
- Teammates
Top 3 are a wash to me. Duncan has the edge on point #4 (which you agree) and point #5. Point #5 can be argued more granularly. IE, is Tim Duncan's 20.2PPG AND defense more impressive compared to Shaq's 23.7PPG and lackluster defense? You gotta ask which was more important: What Duncan managed to do defensively and offensively, or does Shaq's extra 2.5PPG over their careers trump Duncan's defense?
That's my rationale. Head-to-head rarely is an indicator (unless it's what Hakeem did in 94-95 to Robinson and Ewing and Shaq) and something that is an individual sport (boxing, MMA) argument not a team-sport argument and ability to sustain a great career are more important to me.
MorisUkunRasik
Member
Great game, Tony Parker made an instant classic shot.
Red Blaster
Member
I have a weird memory, MASTAH BLASTAH.I have to depower Blur's MASTAH SPLINTAH nonsense by making fun of it
BTW, tough luck on your Grizz losing like that.
We're Sweep Loser-Bros.
its all good
but your cavs are gonna be looking sharp soon, dat number 1 pick + bron bron getting homesick
yes very much so
Timmy got it easy as "PF" because being the best PF of all time was relatively easy. Before that it was about McHale, Barkley, Malone. As great as those guys are, they weren't in the league of historical great centers, great SF's (Baylor, Bird, Worthy) Pg's (Big O, Magic, Stockton) or 2 guard's (Jordan, West).
Timmy wouldn't be considered the best C of all time. He'd be in the conversation with 5 other guys. But "best PF" makes people think he's one of the top 5 in the league history and it's just not true.
Timmy wouldn't be considered the best C of all time. He'd be in the conversation with 5 other guys. But "best PF" makes people think he's one of the top 5 in the league history and it's just not true.
obijkenobi
Member
It was an amazing game
Very. It was a 2-5 point game for the last three quarters.
lmao
oh you
ryutaro's mama
Member
I would never put Shaq over TD.
TD, like Jordan, is the main reason the 5pur5 have 4 chips and looking for 5.
Before him, no rings, after him...good luck Sam Amtonio.
Also, for me, there's something to be said about DAT LOYALTY to one squad.
ORLANDO/LOS ANGELES/MIAMI/PHOENIX/CLEVELAND/BAAAAAAAAAAAAWSTON
Shaq played for almost 25% of the league.
obijkenobi
Member
Interesting:
Kawhi Leonard guarded LeBron James on 6 of his 7 2nd half field goal attempts in Game 1 and held James to 2-of-8 shooting and 6 points overall in the game. James' average field goal attempt was 16.4 feet from the basket against Leonard. Against all other defenders, James went 5-of-8 from the field with 12 points and average shot distance of 8.9 feet.
Kawhi Leonard guarded LeBron James on 6 of his 7 2nd half field goal attempts in Game 1 and held James to 2-of-8 shooting and 6 points overall in the game. James' average field goal attempt was 16.4 feet from the basket against Leonard. Against all other defenders, James went 5-of-8 from the field with 12 points and average shot distance of 8.9 feet.
