Jake Tower
Banned
Who were the big men he played head to head during that period, particularly in the playoffs?
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2013 NBA Finals |OT| The "Big 3" looks to hang another banner... against the Heat
- Thread starter reilo
- Start date
Who were the big men he played head to head during that period, particularly in the playoffs?
I am Michael Bolton
Banned
Why are you doing this to yourself?
Michael Jordan had it easy becoming the best shooting guard of all time.
Syphon Filter
Member
ryutaro's mama
Member
Pssh, Uncle Drew needs help that doesn't disappear in the 4th every other Finals.
Black Mamba
Member
Not sure why Duncan gets longevity. His last 2 seasons weren't impressive and Shaq had the same decline at the same time and also had a revival season at 36. Let's see if Duncan continues on the same exact path?
I do think Shaq's impact on offense there matters (and it was 3.5more ppg and bigger at comparable age) as he caused tons of fouls which helped teammates get to the line more. And Shaq wasn't a bad defender at all.
I'd say overall impact was about the same (but give Shaq slight edge). But it's so close I have only head to head to look at left and other menial shit like being upset in the 1st round.
33 year old Rik Smits (retired after the Finals), 35+ year old Sabonis (fused ankles), 34 year old Mutombo
Justin Timberlake
Member
I said relatively. Relative to his other possible position as C.
Malone/Barkley/McHale
or
Wilt/Russell/Hakeem/Shaq/Kareem
You tell me what's an easier mountain to climb? I'm right, you're just trolling now.
All of the defense awards are a joke.
Dominican Power
Member
Black Mamba
Member
As much as I hated the Nash MVP over Kobe and AI over Shaq, I've always believed Camby's DPOY over Duncan was the most unforgivable awards vote of all time.
LOLOL I'm dying right now.
Justin Timberlake
Member
mmmmmmmmmmffffff
feels good
feels so good
Can't wait till he takes over this league
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
If Oscar is top 15/top 10 of all time, then CP3 probably is too (since the argument has to be purely stats focused with no regard to team success which is generally alright really but seems odd for Vag to go with).
It feels like Wade wasn't active enough without the ball in the second half...
It feels like Wade wasn't active enough without the ball in the second half...
theignoramus
Member
ryutaro's mama
Member
Thuggery.
Nightstick11
Banned
Duncan > Shaq, that isn't even a question. Two of Shaq's rings have constellation-sized asterisks, Duncan got first team all nba at age 37, Duncan is in at least one Finals in 3 different decades.
someone put Psy's avatar on miller's face if/when the Heat lose the series
I don't think Oscar is top 10. He is top 15. I punish him for lack of multiple chips.
As for CP3...Oscar has a chip. And those rebounds. CP3 doesn't.
Also, Oscar was getting you 30+ points multiple times. CP3 doesn't get you 25+ like ever
ryutaro's mama
Member
Everyone knows that the Finals were anti-climatic during 2000-2002.
The Finals were played and won in the WCFs those years.
If Kobe had 7 and 8 seed first round upsets on his résumé, they would be mentioned a lot more than they are for Duncan. Pretty much every one of kobe failures is referenced more. Hell his shooting percentage in a finals W is mentioned more (and Duncan does have a g7 shooting performance that was almost as bad iirc).
Duncan and the spurs' "no one cares about em" quality is actually beneficial to them in that people are only ever paying attention to them when they succeed (and sometimes not even then) and never when they fail. They get to enjoy all the praise of their successes while never really absorbing any flack for their failures.
I'm not even involved in this conversation, but I have to ask- what?
Because Duncan's defense is arguably one of the best in the NBA in 2013 whereas Shaq's defensive effort post Lakers three-peat was LOL.
You're doing that Trax shit again.
I'd argue Shaq in his athletic prime isn't as good as Duncan has been these playoffs.
Menial is right!
TheKaeptain
Banned
The best thing about this is dude would have ate shit if Miller's face wasn't there.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Something something Tim Donaghy incoming.
benjipwns
Banned
Bowen beat him too! http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2007.html#dpoy
EDIT: Just looked at Denver's defensive numbers that year, they were 0.6 better than the average! Not even a full point!
Nightstick11
Banned
2002 and 2006?
And last year? lolSo I think the last two times the home team lost game 1 of the finals and came back to win were Lakers/Sixers in '01 and Bulls/Lakers in '91....
Edit:nm you're fucked.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
CP3 and Oscar have the same rebounding rate, Oscar just played way more possessions because the 60s were stupid fast and CP3 plays very slow.
Duncan and Splitter, these playoffs, have faced:
Dwight and Pau
Lee and Bogut
Randolph and Marc
Bosh and diarrhea
And outside of Lee and Bogut, did anyone give the Spurs frontline (and Duncan specifically) the edge in any of those series?
Dwight and Pau
Lee and Bogut
Randolph and Marc
Bosh and diarrhea
And outside of Lee and Bogut, did anyone give the Spurs frontline (and Duncan specifically) the edge in any of those series?
truth truth truth truth truth.
Duncan's career has gone like this:
"Do the Lakers have a team good enough to win a chip"? If yes, 80% of the time they'll be in the Finals whereas I'll be sitting at home in June, even if I had the #1 seed in the WC and home court advantage.
"Are the Lakers reloading and not good enough to win right now"? If yes, time for me to shineeeeeeeee
I'm really interested in how Lebron James responds from this. There's already a polarizing opinion going around did LBJ have a great game or not. All I care about are results, and at the 3-minute mark the Heat had 7 4th quarter points. What is Lebron doing out there as one of the great players all-time? You have to will your team, score when they need it. A truly impactful stat line, you fill in what your team needs.
I'm not trying to write anything up yet, but as his 4th trip to the Finals in his absolute prime.. have to see something special from him this series. I can already hear him griping Chris Bosh and Wade struggling. If you're in striking distance (like the Heat were), a big spotlight has to go on your star to make something happen if your team isn't. This is yet another mildly disappointing Lebron Finals game. Only saved in that no one's supposed to be able to insult a triple-double.
I'm not trying to write anything up yet, but as his 4th trip to the Finals in his absolute prime.. have to see something special from him this series. I can already hear him griping Chris Bosh and Wade struggling. If you're in striking distance (like the Heat were), a big spotlight has to go on your star to make something happen if your team isn't. This is yet another mildly disappointing Lebron Finals game. Only saved in that no one's supposed to be able to insult a triple-double.
Justin Timberlake
Member
OK I'll fly with this topic...reposting for the greater good:
----
Lets look at the voting breakdown for DPOTY during Tim's prime:
Yes, thats right. Prime Tim Duncan has not only never won the award, he's never even been in the top 2 in voting, and is frequently out of the top 5. There is no minutes argument here either; he averaged 37 minutes per game in those years, while barely missing any games.
This is the guy who..
Is the all time leader in Defensive Rating
Will finish 2nd all-time in defensive win shares (currently 5th -- only a point away from 2nd)
Will finish ~4th all-time in blocks (currently 8th)
Will finish top 3 (maybe 1st) in defensive rebounds (currently 4th)
Has anchored some of the absolute best defensive teams of all time; incl. 1999 and 2004, who are statistically among the most impressive.
----
Lets look at the voting breakdown for DPOTY during Tim's prime:
Yes, thats right. Prime Tim Duncan has not only never won the award, he's never even been in the top 2 in voting, and is frequently out of the top 5. There is no minutes argument here either; he averaged 37 minutes per game in those years, while barely missing any games.
This is the guy who..
Is the all time leader in Defensive Rating
Will finish 2nd all-time in defensive win shares (currently 5th -- only a point away from 2nd)
Will finish ~4th all-time in blocks (currently 8th)
Will finish top 3 (maybe 1st) in defensive rebounds (currently 4th)
Has anchored some of the absolute best defensive teams of all time; incl. 1999 and 2004, who are statistically among the most impressive.
Black Mamba
Member
The gap will grow between the two on points unless you think duncan will average 20ppg next year or however long he plays. My only point for mentioning that.
That's fine. Shaq score 18 ppg on 60% shooting at the age of 36. Goes both ways. Also you overstate Shaq's poor D. 2005 and 2006 Miami he was still fine. Phx who knows, he played next to Nash and Amar'e.
You are using terms like "not bad" and "fine" when compared to an all time defensive great. I think you're underestimating Duncan's defensive impact.
Again, let me iterate:
MiamiWesker
Member
And no one ever sweeps the three games at home and we did it twice. In the big three era the 3 times we started a series 0-1, we have won each series 4-1. Team that wins first game wins 70% of the time but both times we won the Finals we lost game 1.
Justin Timberlake
Member
I have lol
Its been pretty comical hearing the commentary on our frontline these playoffs...constantly talking about how we'll get beat up when we clearly have the best frontcourt in the league...
The Hibbert / Duncan comparisons were the best though. Pure gold.
So do you think players who score 3 ppg in the no shot clock era where routine scores were like 15 to 20? is the same as someone who scores 30 a game in today's NBA?
There's only so far you can take rate and pace as an equalizer of different stats dude.
ryutaro's mama
Member
NBA-GAF needs to get better through the draft.
I've literally been gone for months and the exact same "arguments" are still being had....
I've literally been gone for months and the exact same "arguments" are still being had....
Black Mamba
Member
Nightstick11
Banned
This is a laughably moronic way of reasoning.
First, Duncan made Kobe sob like a lost child.
Second, Kobe was always second fiddle EXCEPT 2009 (Pau was robbed 2010) so he isn't even in the discussion for generation's MVP
Third, Spurs never missed the playoffs when Duncan was here
Fourth, Detroit's evisceration of the Lakers is the greatest upset of all time
Fifth, Kobe has a history of choking in elimination games