• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

2013 NBA Offseason |OT2| The Rich Get Richer, The Poor Get Andrea Bargnani

Dominican Power

Dominican Power

Member
Herpes Reasons said:
what the fuck.


what the fuck.
someone in practice should play passionate defense on this fool.


my liver doesn't find you funny. but i'll take one for the team.
remember kids, when you start seeing tunnel vision, that means your body is begging you to stop.
Click to expand...

Kobe is using the same stuff that Nelson Cruz used.
 
M

MorisUkunRasik

Member
DY_nasty said:
how many virgin sacrifices
Click to expand...

All of Dwight's babies.

3 way deal with the devil. Dwight got to leave LA, satan retroactively got all of TMac's bone marrow and changed our timeline, Kobe gets to play opening night and a 50/50 shot at Wiggins.


by 'shot' I mean, a coin flip will decide if Wiggins gets to stay alive or not. Kobe pushed hard for that last bit, he had Mitch act as his rep. LA is also getting 2 future 2nd rounders from Satan.
 
H

Herpes Reasons

Banned
Let's pray kobe wont be kobe on opening night and not repeat what he did that night he had the catastrophic injury by overexerting himself out there. And also ignoring the initial injury and telling d'antoni to fuck off when he told kobe to take the bench.
let's hope kobe wont be kobe.
*bites lips*
 
D

DY_nasty

NeoGAF's official "was this shooting justified" consultant
MorisUkunRasik said:
All of Dwight's babies.

3 way deal with the devil. Dwight got to leave LA, satan retroactively got all of TMac's bone marrow and changed our timeline, Kobe gets to play opening night and a 50/50 shot at Wiggins.


by 'shot' I mean, a coin flip will decide if Wiggins gets to stay alive or not. Kobe pushed hard for that last bit, he had Mitch act as his rep. LA is also getting 2 future 2nd rounders from Satan.
Click to expand...

Mambapoint Paradox
 
C

CB3

intangibles, motherfucker
Kobe is gonna be Kobe. You might as well enjoy him attempting to beast through this injury.

On its own, im incredibly interested on how he will look when he returns.
 
T

ThisWreckage

Banned
Grant Hill will likely get in because of his several dominant years in the NBA and the fact that he is one of the most well liked players in the NBA. And his college credentials, of course.
 
L

LegendofJoe

Member
Got another player to add to the injury ruined career list - Michael Redd. He went from an efficient 20+ ppg scorer to out of the league in 3 seasons.
 
F

Future PhaZe

Member
LegendofJoe said:
Got another player to add to the injury ruined career list - Michael Redd. He went from an efficient 20+ ppg scorer to out of the league in 3 seasons.
Click to expand...

25.5 ppg
29.3 ppg
28.4 ppg
...
19.4 ppg
13.0 ppg
22.6 ppg
10.8 ppg

92863042_display_image.jpg


Gilbert doesn't get enough love. This guy was trending to be only behind Iverson as the best scoring point or combo guard of all time before Crash fucked the world and guaranteed eternal pain to the Bobcats franchise (luckily they are the Hornets now) for his sins.

Seriously Arenas was the truth..
 
D

DY_nasty

NeoGAF's official "was this shooting justified" consultant
Dark FaZe said:
25.5 ppg
29.3 ppg
28.4 ppg
...
19.4 ppg
13.0 ppg
22.6 ppg
10.8 ppg

92863042_display_image.jpg


Gilbert doesn't get enough love. This guy was trending to be only behind Iverson as the best scoring point or combo guard of all time before Crash fucked the world and guaranteed eternal pain to the Bobcats franchise (luckily they are the Hornets now) for his sins.

Seriously Arenas was the truth..
Click to expand...
Wait...

Gerald Wallace did it?
 
D

DY_nasty

NeoGAF's official "was this shooting justified" consultant
someone actually did the dirty work for me describing the mostlyoneman game that the Bobcats put out last year

from bobcatsplanet.com, QC Thundercats
Has the Kemba war really started back up again? Cool, interesting debate we had going on here.

Personally, I feel he is every bit the point guard and leader of our franchise going forward. Although I do understand why people are skeptical and think he's better as an impactful bench spark. Perhaps its because of past observations of similar looking players and the larger statistical evidence available to date from Kemba's career. But I disagree. On the surface its hard to argue, but I think there really are true differences, and it takes a deeper look into his stats and a necessary extrapolation of a smaller sample size to get to my conclusions.

Let's start with the defensive side of the ball.

Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeOscarBluth View Post
What isn't subject (and is observed through the ole' eye test) is Kemba being undersized and unable to stay with quicker and/or bigger guards. Again, not rocket science.
Click to expand...
I'm not seeing that Kemba is weak defensively and a liability on that side at all. I agree with you in that there is no perfect defensive measurement system, as all of them are flawed since there's too many variables to take into account. However, what defensive metric systems have shown Kemba to be this huge liability that he hurts the team? Of the one's I've seen or have been mentioned, he always comes out pretty favorably compared to his peers.

Using the eye test, to me I saw Kemba as a ball hawk, using his quickness and agility to keep up with his man up and down the floor. I'm not saying he's the best pg defender, but he has great recovery and can stay connected to his man. He often can make his guy turn a couple times, which is one of the goals as a point defender, instead of giving a straight line path. Also, Kemba has some of the quickest hands and gets more ball deflections than any point guard other than maybe Chris Paul and Westbrook. Deflections aren't recorded and don't often end up in steals, so it can't be reflected in any defensive metric system, but Kemba gets many more tips on balls than I recall most point guards getting. And he does collect a lot of steals as well.Now, where Kemba gets hurt defensively is on pick and rolls, but this symptom may be caused by a couple problems. One is our team last year may have had the worst pick and roll defense of all time. Our bigs last year consisted of space cadet Mully not understanding how to hedge out on the PG on the p&r, Haywood being to slow to make any impact, and Biz being too young and inexperienced to diagnose the picks quickly and properly. So what looks like Kemba allowing his guy to get to the hole is more of him being lost on an island because of incompetent big men defense.

The second part is one of the worst perimeter strategies of all time, allowing more open 3's then Roy Williams' best efforts. This combination allowed a steady stream of p&r failures on our part, leading to a ton of paint points and kick outs for wide open 3's. Spectre, as you asked, here is the stats on these two areas:

Charlotte allowed 43.9 points in the paint this year, good for 25th place in the league. The previous year, we allowed 48.3, good for 30th place, dead last in the league in allowing paint points.

http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat...paint-per-game

As for 3 point shooting, this year we allowed 26.2 points per game from 3, good for dead last in the league. We also let 25.5% of the opponents points per game come from 3 point shots, which was again, good for dead last in the league.

http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat...rom-3-pointers

One more defensive ranking system I found (I'm sure it has flaws, but just another example):

It breaks down defensive efficiency by positions and ranks the teams.
For PG defensive rating, Charlotte was ranked 5th out of 30 teams.
For SG defensive rating, Charlotte was ranked 27th out of 30 teams.
For SF defensive rating, Charlotte was ranked 28th out of 30 teams.
For PF defensive rating, Charlotte was ranked 30th out of 30 teams.
For C defensive rating, Charlotte was ranked 30th out of 30 teams.

http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball...12/diffeff/1-1

We were a historically bad defensive team, so it makes sense that we'd rank near the bottom in most categories. Except for.....PG.
So based on my eye test (of Kemba's defense and taking into consideration the historically horrible defensive support system), and all the defensive metric systems seemingly in favor of Kemba, I don't see a weak, defensive liability at all, but rather a scrappy defender who works hard, and is a sneakily better defender than many think.
.
.
.


Now on to offense.
Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeOscarBluth View Post
The other factor is him not being much of a distributor. His PER is what it is because he isn't turnover prone, which obviously is a good thing, but he's not exactly creating for his teammates either. So he's really a scoring guard, more so than a point guard
Click to expand...
Kemba looks like one of those undersized combo guards, and he shot a shit ton in college to score a bunch. But I don't think he's necessarily shoot first (like Stephon Marbury, Westbrook, Curry), but only out of necessity. He is definitely a scorer, but I think he's more of a facilitator than he gets credit for, since because of his college's needs and the offensively inept Bobcat's needs, he needed to use his scoring talents more than passing to incapable scorers.

But when he has talented scorers around him, Kemba actually stops shooting, and looks to pass first. And does it pretty well.

Example A:
Rising Stars Game 2012 - Kemba only took the 9th most shots out of 20 players, and led both teams with 10 assists

Example B:
Rising Stars Game 2013 - Kemba only took the 17th most shots out of 21 players, and led his team with 8 assists

Example C:
Team USA Scrimmage - only 2 players out of 24 shot less times than him, and he led his team with 5 assists

See a pattern? When he has scorers around him, he is pass first all the way. When there is no other option, he becomes the scorer.

Even in college, his sophomore year he played about the same amount as the championship year, but shot only 11 times instead of 18 per game, and averaged 5 assists instead of 4.5. This was by coaches design, as the team would have gone nowhere without his scoring his junior year, but he was a willing distributor when there was more balance.
Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeOscarBluth View Post
Curry and Parker are also on different planets than Kemba and play on vastly superior teams. Like I said, on a really strong team, Kemba is sufficient, although he's quite a bit more shot-first than those two.
Click to expand...
This is wrong. Curry took 17.8 shots per game, while Kemba and Parker took 15.2 and 15.1 shots per game. Curry is a bit more shot first, Kemba and Parker are the same. Westbrook and Kyrie are absolute gunners at 18.7 and 18.1 shots per game. Thats shoot first, second, and "oh hey KD, here ya go bro!"
Quote Originally Posted by gm in potty training View Post
Not only that , but I'm pretty sure half of the players you named wouldn't allow calderon, brandon knight, raymond felton, the timberwolves whole pg rotation drop like 40 on them . good/ average point guards were having season nights against kemba.
Click to expand...
This is also wrong. Kemba didn't allow any of those guys to get 40, or anything near.

Calderon scored 7, 15, 17, and 11 to Kemba's 19, 12, 24, and 25 last year.
Knight scored 12, 21, 10, and 19 to Kemba's 20, 24, 25, and 28 last year.
Felton scored 17 and 18 to Kemba's 25 and 16 last year.
Rubio had 14, Ridnour had 16 and 22 to Kemba's 22 and 25 last year, but Kemba couldn't guard both at once.

Kemba dominated those matchups like a top level point guard should. Don't make up facts (damn I'm good - is that how I use it?)

Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeOscarBluth View Post
So either everyone around Kemba needs to get a lot better or we one of a multitude of championship oriented moves going forward needs to be replacing him with a truly elite PG, allowing him to shift to a role where his defense and scorer's mentality are better suited.
Click to expand...
I submit we need a truly elite player, as every team is looking for at least one elite, and Kemba's level will rise with whatever top talent we bring in.

The thing is, Kemba is still very young, and he improved a ton from year 1 to year 2. He is an extremely hard worker and very smart, so I fully expect him to get better at his weaknesses (3 point shooting, pick and roll offense). I mean, he closed the year averaging about 20 points and 6.5 assists the last 20 games, which with consistency would be the output of a top 5 point guard. Any improvement with better players around him is a top level point guard that you don't need to worry about replacing as long as he's on the team. Upgrade people other than your leader who is doing a pretty damn good job.
Click to expand...
;_;
 
P

Pimpwerx

Member
DY_nasty said:
someone actually did the dirty work for me describing the mostlyoneman game that the Bobcats put out last year

from bobcatsplanet.com, QC Thundercats
;_;
Click to expand...

The most damning evidence against Kemba being good is the fact that he was drafted by the Bobcats. Everyone they pick is suspect, and so is Kemba. PEACE.
 
D

DY_nasty

NeoGAF's official "was this shooting justified" consultant
Pimpwerx said:
The most damning evidence against Kemba being good is the fact that he was drafted by the Bobcats. Everyone they pick is suspect, and so is Kemba. PEACE.
Click to expand...

At least our last #2 pick didn't get shit on by Boris Diaw
 
T

ThisWreckage

Banned
The Bobcats are a Wiggins or Parker away from being OKC East. I'm not optimistic they'll land either, however. Gerald Henderson was possibly the biggest steal of free agency given his development and it is absolutely puzzling why he didn't attract more attention. For example:

PG Walker
SG Henderson
SF Wiggins
PF Zeller
C Jefferson

With Biyombo, Kidd Gilchrist, etc. off the bench is intriguing. I think the franchise is on the verge of having a lot of money to play with as well.
 
L

LegendofJoe

Member
Wiggins is too skinny to play the 3 right now. He'd be better off playing the 2 initially. He, MKG, and Hendo on the wings would give us the best perimeter D in the league though if coached properly. We're not winning the lottery though so I've moved on to James Young and Mario Hezonja.
 
T

ThisWreckage

Banned
LegendofJoe said:
Wiggins is too skinny to play the 3 right now. He'd be better off playing the 2 initially. He, MKG, and Hendo on the wings would give us the best perimeter D in the league though if coached properly. We're not winning the lottery though so I've moved on to James Young and Mario Hezonja.
Click to expand...

I still think the Cats will have a shot at Parker.
 
I

ItWasMeantToBe19

Banned
Dark FaZe said:
why stop with the #2 pick?

LeBron got shit on by Diaw in the NBA finals

fuck me the storyline with bron/heat could have been so much different...
Click to expand...

Imagine if Duncan had been in the game and got the rebound on the first desperation three the Heat took at the end of the game. LeBron's last shot would have been a wild brick that barely got the rim and people would remember him choking away the Finals.

Instead, the truth was revealed to everyone and LeBron proved that he isn't affected by late game or Finals pressure (though I think he still is too affected by his jumper going cold in the playoffs and he defers too much in those situations when he should be assaulting the rim and trying to get to the line)
 
I

iamshadowlark

Banned
Personally I blame Lebrons play on fatigue more than anything else. Wade too. They were winded every since game 6 in Indy by my count. Game 1 if the finals is probably the only one where both teams had their energy and then it switched from game to game.


Next season will probably be our biggest test. Narrative is boring though, you all should focus more on 3x NBA Champion Dwayne Wade.
 
M

MVP

Banned
Dark FaZe said:
why stop with the #2 pick?

LeBron got shit on by Diaw in the NBA finals

fuck me the storyline with bron/heat could have been so much different...
Click to expand...

lol @ fat cat Boris Meow having a couple good games before the King adjusted and demolished his dumpling ass = "Lebron got shit on"
 
P

Psychological Intellect

Banned
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
SuperCool arrested for marijuana possession, whatever.

Zach Lowe talking about Cousins not being very good:

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9541808/the-future-demarcus-boogie-cousins-nba-biggest-mystery
Click to expand...

so Cousins is a...
1. Terrible PnR defender, and defender in general, doesn't move his feet, etc...
2. Doesn't communicate well on defense and not so much on offense
3. settles for long range jumpers, which he isn't good at
4. Doesn't do anything on PnR besides set the pick
5.Showed a lot of promise after the tread deadline as he started to play closer to the basket.

so basically he's lazy as fuck on defense or he just doesn't want to play defense, he doesn't play to his strengths on offense and that can be percieved as being lazy I suppose but there's still #HOPE that he can be great.
 
P

Pimpwerx

Member
theignoramus said:
they will never chip with Scott Brooks as a head coach. end of story.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure Brooks is the issue. People point to the '12 Finals and the way he managed the center position, but then that's the same issue people criticized Vogel and Pop for this postseason. I just think Miami's small lineup creates a boggling mismatch at the center position, because the counters Spo can hatch are equally undesirable.

On top of that, Brooks had the misfortune of facing a Heat team that played better than this year's team. The role players shot well against the Thunder. If they shot that well this year, Indy and SAS would've been finished quicker.

I think Brooks gets undue hate, despite having a very successful record with a young team. I can't blame him for losing this year after Westbrook went down. It looks like the controlled chaos Brooks lets him play with is part of that team's secret recipe. PEACE.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

NBA Regular Season 2017-18 |OT| KD's chip, IT's hip, LeBron's Sinking Ship
77 78 79 80 81
4K
310K
EverydayBeast replied
NBA 2015- 16 Regular Season IOTI - NBA GAF Is Pretty Dead Considering This Fact
307 308 309 310 311
16K
786K
Andrew Korenchkin replied
  • Locked
2015 NBA Draft |OT| The Resurrection of the Lakers
42 43 44 45 46
2K
156K
ZeroMaverick replied
  • Locked
2013-14 NBA Oct-Nov |OT| Bargnani and Chris Smith, Your New York Knicks
39
2K
Dr.Acula replied
2013-14 NBA Oct-Nov Season |OT| They can't hide the championship banners Forever
376 377 378 379 380
19K
604K
reilo replied
Top Bottom