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2014 NBA Playoffs |OT| Men lie, Women lie, Bagels don't.
- Thread starter UnObtainium17
- Start date
eBay Huckster
Member
I'm leaving actual basketball analysis to someone who knows more, and only contesting the idea that the Ibaka injury somehow completely invalidates the concept that the Spurs could be considered favorites in a matchup against the Heat. That's hardly cherry-picking, unless you consider "me not wanting to be considered any more of an idiot than I've already indicated tonight" to be cherry-picking.
2005 was a similar situation to this (Suns #3 option Joe Johnson injured for half the WCF) and I'm pretty sure if that situation repeated itself, no one would be counting out either Finals team out of hand like you're doing with 2014 San Antonio.
Spurs aren't better than last year.
Yeah, bit confusing there. The East is dog doodoo.
Sadly, I still think Miami will beat the Spurs.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
See this is why our conversations go nowhere. You say yes I say no. You say no I say yes. It will just go in circles until one team is left standing.
I truly believe the Spurs are the best team in Basketball right now. I don't know if you truly believe if the Heat are the best team but I don't know if you would admit it if they weren't.
But then you take it one step further and question someone's knowledge of basketball if they disagree with your view that the Heat are the best and I think that's some ridiculousness.
Our conversations go nowhere because you only give vague one sentence opinions and think that's enough to make whatever you say true.
You want to look at numbers, fine. The Spurs have a better record than last year, and their stats are probably better against the teams they play. All of that means nothing in the Finals. The Heat look better through these playoffs than they did last year, the Spurs don't look any different.
You can "believe" they're the best team in basketball, that's fine. Belief doesn't make it true, but it's not like you're saying Indiana is the best team in basketball. Your opinion isn't crazy, and is probably shared by the majority of basketball fans. Still doesn't make it true.
What I have seen these playoffs is Miami handling their business against opponents, and the Spurs getting pushed to the limit by the Mavs, beating an overrated Portland team, and then beating an OKC team with no Ibaka. Not impressed anymore than usual by them.
Nothing wrong with the Spurs being favored, I expect them to be because of the overreaction over them beating a shorthanded team the way they're supposed to, but it doesn't make them the best team. They almost got bounced in the first round, Miami handled their business against teams, shorthanded or not. And now I'm waiting for someone to come in and talk about how great the Mavs are all of a sudden.
WonkyPanda
Member
They really don't. You think a team that posts better numbers through the season always performs better through the playoffs?
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
Once again I'm even more perplexed. The stats don't matter, the records don't matter, what metric are you using to determine that the Spurs aren't better? You say in one sentence that matchups don't mean anything and then go on about how the Heat beat this team and that team. I'm sure the Spurs would have beat the Bobcats with a broken Al Jefferson in 4 games too.
What is the metric you're using here because I'm not seeing it.
What is the metric you're using here because I'm not seeing it.
WonkyPanda
Member
I think a team that posts better numbers across the board is a better team than it was last year, and it's even more telling when you factor SRS into the equation and see the significance of their differential. All this also comes from, arguably, a better Western conference than last year (although, this is factored anyway). I just don't see any objective basis right now why you think this team isn't better than last year, aside from a feeling you seem to have.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
For that matter why is MVP's opinion any more valid than the next mans? He keeps saying we can believe what we want but it's not true well why is what he believes true? Let's be real here it's all just guesses.
WonkyPanda
Member
I think that's fine to an extent, and I also think there is some semblance of truth that stats cannot capture the entire picture. But, to see a team improve in nearly every single stat from last year, it's difficult to really argue they aren't a better team. I don't know what other measure there is, quite frankly.
thehypocrite
Member
Spurs are better than last year in my opinion. The stats and eye test has them playing better, however if they and the heat make it to the finals I expect that's going to be difficult for them to beat the heat. It's alway hard to beat the team with the better player in the series and LeBron is still that guy.
eBay Huckster
Member
I'm not going to say the 2013-14 Mavs are great, but they're certainly significantly better than the Lakers team SA faced in the first round last year (which was missing half its starters due to old age and had inferior coaching).
In an NBA playoffs where, in addition to this, their conference semifinals opponent was roughly as good as their conference finals opponent last year (and unlike that series, none of these games were even close), that's a pretty big difference.
(I still don't know if SA's even gonna be able to win given that LeBron's going to be difficult to counter as always, and that the Heat always seem to pull 5 Ray Allen 3s in the 4th quarter out of their asses, but c'mon, man.)
The series will be determined by who makes their 3s. That's pretty much it. Neither conference final is decided though, so it's premature. PEACE.
eBay Huckster
Member
Though we may be premature on deciding the East, OKC's going to need to pull off a 0-2 comeback after two huge blowouts that, far as I can tell, has happened twice in NBA history (Houston against Phoenix in 1995, San Antonio against New Orleans in 2008)... and they'll have to do it with a player as important as Ibaka in 2005 Joe Johnson mode at best.
The Thunder might be able to extend the series to 6 (just because Durant/Westbrook have that capability), but they very probably aren't winning.
Maybe I should rephrase it. I'm not impressed by the Spurs this year any more than I was last year.
They look good, but when have they ever not looked good? If they went 4-4-4 that's one thing, but they had to go a full 7 games with a team we swept the season series against. Hell, when was the last time the Heat even lost to the Mavs? 2011?
Just saying, don't think they're as strong right now as they were last year. Last year they swept 2 of the 3 series leading into the Finals, this year they almost got bounced 1st round. Against the Mavs. Who the Heat haven't lost to since 2011. That's all I'm saying.
Uh Wade is healthy this year, you all saw what he did game 4 last year when he had a "Flash" back while he stole back home court with a bum knee.
Prior to that game Wade was averaging 14.2 points and shooting 44.6 percent in the postseason. In the Conference Finals so far Wade is avg 24.3 while shooting @ 62%, he's the healthiest he's been in the postseason since 2011 and you have the nerve to ask how the Heat are better than last year?
Who's guarding a healthy Wade on the Spurs when Leonard has to be on James.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
A lot of people agree that this Heat team is worse than last year not sure why this is so new to you. Every time Inside the NBA or ESPN NBA cover a Heat game they mention it.
Of all the stupid posts I've ever seen this by far is stupidest. If my three month old son could talk I'm confident he could make a better argument. Instead of basing this god awful arugement on going to 7 with mavs how about you give reasons on why you think the spurs aren't as good this season.
I don't give a fuck what they say, especially when that line of thought is based on seasonal stats that ignores the Heat clearly cruising though the second half of this season unlike last (mostly due to the winning streak)
The Heat are a much better team with a healthy wade, this isn't even a debate. Noone on the spurs can guard a healthy wade who tore them apart for a single game last time with a bum knee.
He's shooting 62% against the best defense in the league, think about it man. Who's guarding Wade? The Euro flopper?
But no please continue to listen to "experts" and ignore common sense. a Top 10 player being healthy and dominate compared to limping along and playing cameo's is not a difference maker at all. Wade's season stats are down from last year so clearly that means the heat team this year are weaker. Not like less minutes, less games played and actually being healthy for the postseason for the first time in 3 years means anything.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
Pacers suck ass though. If the Spurs aren't given any credit for beating the Thunder then why should I care that Wade can light up a team that got light up by the Wizards and Hawks in numerous games.
Yeah because Manu and Green are much better defenders on Wade than Stevenson and George.
Wade to avg 30 in the finals.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
Well that's your opinion and I'm not gonna change it but how many knee drops to the head is he gonna average?
Syphon Filter
Member
You switch all the time. You said pacers will beat heat and now you change your mind.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
I hope they beat the Heat but I've been talking about Heat/Spurs matchup for a while now. I think a lot of us were rightfully fooled after game 1, not that this series is over.
Really the worst part of all is that ridiculous Heat losing game 1 stat will look more right if they win this series.
I'm sure your three month old son has better grammar than you too, kiddo. Come back when YOU have an argument to make.
Syphon Filter
Member
mvp is trollin or delusional. He mentioned the mavs 7 games because it will make him feel better lol. Mavs matched well with them but then spurs realize they had to rum them out the gym in game 7 which they did. We don't know how the finals will go. Things change a lot.
TheKaeptain
Banned
The Heat are going to miss this motherfucker when Lebron shit himself again and he needs three other dudes to pick up his slack.
Miracle Mike isn't walking through that door shooting three this year Heat fans.
Miracle Mike isn't walking through that door shooting three this year Heat fans.
Love Deterrence
Member
My team (front office, specifically) completely imploded since the last time I talked to you guys. Hope everyone has been enjoying the playoffs. I've been watching on-and-off; haven't been too interested since the first round ended...
Oh ok, so now it went 7 games because the Mavs match up well with them, but Heat/Spurs went 7 games last year because?
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
Syphon Filter
Member
You're aware basketball is team sport, right?
I mean just because Lebron's the best player in the game doesn't mean he has to play by himself.
Other players are allowed to take and make shots.
Lol I just believe in going to triple threat guys late in games. Let them decide who gets the ball instead of force-feeding one-dimensional offensive players
That's exactly the point that TheKaeptain is making.
You understand without Miller and other players on the team, the Heat bench isn't as good or as reliable as the year before?
Of course superstars don't play by themselves as we see with literally every NBA team out there. But your team can't continually run 40+ minutes back to back without proper support from the bench through defense, 3-point shooting, etc. We see that happening with OKC as Durant keeps juicing out after the first half or so.
You can say what you want with Lebron, but he's human and he can only take so much. Just because he hasn't broken yet doesn't mean he won't in the future and if the team doesn't step it up to make up for their bench last year, the Heat aren't gonna be able to play an extended series, even if Spoelstra magically knows how to manage his team's minutes.
Ray Allen has been somewhat making up for Mike Miller with his 3s like we saw last night, but can you continuously rely on one dedicated player to make most of the 3s on your team? Lebron isn't going to pump 3s like it's his job. Against a team that has 3-4+ confident 3 point shooters?
Couple all that with the fact that Lebron has been sluggish and hasn't been as motivated as his past couple seasons. We'll see which team wants the Larry O' Brien Trophy more in the Finals but these players and teams are human. You can't expect them to magically blow up every game, especially when the stats don't lie.
That was hardly the point he was making.
Lebron "didn't shit himself" in any of the finals games last year.
And the heat bench wasn't dancing on the line of reliability that much more than they are this year.
Mike Miller wasn't any more reliable last year than Allen is this year.
I remember Miller having multiple 0 pt outings in the finals.
For everyone that they lost/got worse (Miller and Battier mainly) others have actually improved (Birdman, Cole even Lewis to some extent) this year.
Still, they looked like shit for a good 2 quarters yesterday and I'm sure fatigue after 4 consecutive finals runs and countless other shenanigans are settling in for everyone, including Lebron.
And right now, from the way both teams are playing, I'd give a potential finals series to the Spurs in 6.
But then the Spurs are a much better matchup for the Heat than the Pacers and maybe Bosh and Chalmers remember how to play basketball again, should they come so far.
I just hate the notion of "herp, derp Mike Miller hit some 3s in the playoffs and he's not on the time anymore, who's Lolbron gonna hide behind now".
That's just stupid.
Dude got shit done time and time again in the playoffs these last years and should be behind mindless criticism like this.
I'm not saying that Lebron is some fraud that hides behind players, I'm saying that he sorely needs backup in a team that relies on its stars.
The main point was that the Heat are going to miss 3-point depth. Even if Miller is worse than he was last year, his contribution is sorely needed and appreciated. We've seen him pick up slack in the Memphis - OKC series. Miller was popping 3's for the Grizzlies. The Heat aren't going to be pumping 3 point shots out of their ass with Ray Allen as their only main contributor.
Lebron is good, he will blow up, but he's been showing lack of motivation and the extended minutes that most teams play are taking a huge toll on the starters. They played against a Charlotte team without Al Jefferson and a ragtag Brooklyn team which are advantageous matchups for the Heat. We also saw that all season long. The Heat could have definitely made up for that through better minute management and through better productivity from the rest of their players.
A couple players showing slight improvement doesn't forgo the fact that those other players contributed. The improvement isn't gonna make up for a lack of depth, especially with how inconsistent certain players have been as you've laid out earlier. The Heat have less 3-point power than they were did last year and they're facing a worse Finals matchup that they did last year.
Regardless, I agree that the Spurs will come out in 5-6 games.
j0hnnix
Member
Stats are numbers on a piece of paper. The reality of it; if the Heat and Spurs meet in the finals it will be a good series but those stats get thrown out the door. Remember last year the almighty Spurs had the finals in the bag and they CHOKED! I am sure those stats predicted that.. the naysayers will just come up with their numbers and come out but this year they are better... wait for the Finals to get here before throwing up the Spurs flag.
This shit happens in the Finals stats don't predict this:
This shit happens in the Finals stats don't predict this:
This shit happens in the Finals stats don't predict this:
fucking legendary
Would be even better if they stopped mentioning his last and possible future coaching positions every 30 seconds.
My argument is based on what should be obvious. The Spurs don't look as impressive as they did last year, and therefore it's easy to say they were better last year. Plain and simple. Last year they didn't get pushed to 7 games in the first round.
By the way, once the Finals start, if anyone wants to put money against me on the Heat winning in less than 7 games, let me know. I make stupid predictions from time to time, but when I bet it's because it's easy money and for some reason people can't properly judge the Spurs. Step right up.
EDIT: and it has to be someone I trust to pay up, not the new younger NBA-Gaf crowd.
EDIT: and it has to be someone I trust to pay up, not the new younger NBA-Gaf crowd.