Freedom = $1.05
Banned
Ape, you gotta come up with a better bit. We get it, even though statistically Lebron is an above average shooter in the clutch you think he chokes.
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2015 NBA Finals |OT| the deli is closed
- Thread starter UnObtainium17
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It's called human nature. You don't miraculously keep your energy level at 100% when you play 46 minutes against the best D in the league and have a 46% usage rate.
Come on people, I have spent way too much time on this board arguing Jordan > Lebron but even I am aware how ridiculous it is to argue Lebron choked and to spew some of the hate going on.
The only reason they were even in that position last night was because of Lebron. The only reason they are in the finals is because of Lebron. Hell the only reason they aren't a lottery team again is because of Lebron. No other player in the game right now except Lebron could even accomplish what he has with that team and a rookie head coach(albeit an underrated one).
They are not as bad as the Lebron haters, but the delusional Lebron defenders can also be pretty horribad. Its like having dozens of Konex's around all the time.
I think we can all blame ESPN for this mess. The fuckers focus on everything Lebron does.
How is this fair? The guy scored 40 points, had to cover the other team's best player and had to deal with like five different dudes banging him in the post. The guy can't get tired?
sooperkool
Member
Rumours have been that Kyrie and the Cavs are at odds on his playing due to health. Don't trust 'em Kyrie. They are too close to the title to give a damn about you.
BronsonLee
Member
The Cavs will RGIII the shit out of Kyrie if it gets them a ring.
We're talking Rookie of the Year or Major League done here
We're talking Rookie of the Year or Major League done here
isn't that the definition of "choke"?
That's what happened, no? Add the 2 points in the OT
It was a tough three with good D when the game was already tied up thanks entirely to his performance. Come on people. If Lebron doesn't hit a three to make the game 96-96 and then doesn't get the well timed assist to Mozgov to get it tied to 98-98 the shot doesn't even matter.
But everyone wants to look past that because it doesnt fit the narrative.
captmcblack
Member
Lebron's other playmaking/scoring options went from healthy Kyrie Irving and Kevin Love...to a gimpy Irving, and JR Smith/Iman Shumpert.
The Cavs couldn't get any offensive continuity or consistency from ANYONE that wasn't Lebron last night; it's actually a minor miracle that they made it to OT in the first place.
I actually want CLE to win so that Lebron can complete the narrative of winning as the lead sled dog on his own team in/for his own town. I want CLE to win so that the bizarro world of JR Smith: NBA Champion can be achieved.
...but if they don't win, I wouldn't be surprised. Even the best player on Earth needs more than JR Smith and Iman Shumpert to win the title...and as it stands, he's going to need those two to be more than 20-minute role players to pull this out.
The Cavs couldn't get any offensive continuity or consistency from ANYONE that wasn't Lebron last night; it's actually a minor miracle that they made it to OT in the first place.
I actually want CLE to win so that Lebron can complete the narrative of winning as the lead sled dog on his own team in/for his own town. I want CLE to win so that the bizarro world of JR Smith: NBA Champion can be achieved.
...but if they don't win, I wouldn't be surprised. Even the best player on Earth needs more than JR Smith and Iman Shumpert to win the title...and as it stands, he's going to need those two to be more than 20-minute role players to pull this out.
Freedom = $1.05
Banned
yeah, you can't win when your team is Lebron, 2 Knicks, and the remnants of the Washington General's bench. Kyrie is broken and Kevin Love has been fishing for a month now. No one can win like this, hell i'm not even sure they could've won even at full health.
Kobe couldn't win with this squad, he was at best an 8th seed team when shaq left until Pau got there. Same with Wade, same with Jordan before they got Pippen. They weren't able to do it without all star help.
I don't care for lebron as a heat lifer but you can't reasonably expect him to pull this off.
Kobe couldn't win with this squad, he was at best an 8th seed team when shaq left until Pau got there. Same with Wade, same with Jordan before they got Pippen. They weren't able to do it without all star help.
I don't care for lebron as a heat lifer but you can't reasonably expect him to pull this off.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
The same narrative that tries to explain it all away by saying he was tired? What star player isn't tired at the end of the game? Never heard be used to justify a choke job before.
I can't believe people are still arguing about LeBron's clutchness.
Part of the reason why Kerr's "Let LeBron shoot every possession" strategy is smart is that it's tiring carrying a team on your back for four quarters. LeBron was spent by the end of the game. That's why he settled for a jumper in the 4th and couldn't do anything in OT.
He's been carrying this team night in and night out for two months. That catches up with a person. That's why the Warriors are ecstatic if he keeps shooting. Putting up 40 shots a night just isn't sustainable, and he's going to struggle down the stretch. He's human.
Part of the reason why Kerr's "Let LeBron shoot every possession" strategy is smart is that it's tiring carrying a team on your back for four quarters. LeBron was spent by the end of the game. That's why he settled for a jumper in the 4th and couldn't do anything in OT.
He's been carrying this team night in and night out for two months. That catches up with a person. That's why the Warriors are ecstatic if he keeps shooting. Putting up 40 shots a night just isn't sustainable, and he's going to struggle down the stretch. He's human.
That is the only reason I don't want Cleveland to win.
I like their team since Lebron went back and it would be a cool story for him to go back home and win a ring.
But fuck JR Smith. That guy is a punk ass bitch and it would disgust me to see him as an NBA champion (especially as he was a big contributor to the Cavs in the playoffs).
BronsonLee
Member
I want JR Smith to win an NBA title because it's basically the worst possible ending for everybody in the world but JR Smith
If you thought he jacked up bullshit shots now, just imagine him with the knowledge that he won a fucking title because of his fuckboy tactics
If you thought he jacked up bullshit shots now, just imagine him with the knowledge that he won a fucking title because of his fuckboy tactics
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
If that can be used as a justification then almost any player who plays heavy minutes could be excused that way.
LeBron is doing much more than just playing a lot of minutes. He's the sole offensive threat on every possession. Their prehistoric offense is just LeBron isolation with Tristan crashing the boards. And that's not even taking into account what he's doing on the defensive end. Kerr is happily letting LeBron run himself into the ground and the Cavs are doing it because there's no other option.
Thibs was on Mike & Mike this morning, and was asked if Kerr should keep up his strategy of one-on-one with Lebron or adjust, and he said "well...don't underestimate Lebron" and basically advised helping on him. The fucking strategy that consistently sank the Bulls against him, when his support was murdering us each year. Glad he's gone on that alone. This is what you want, since Cleveland's not trained for anything but to stand around
I'll take that all day.
I'll take that all day.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
You do realize he had Irving for that entire game before OT right? How can be considered the sole offensive threat when another guy was playing that well?
captmcblack
Member
You don't need all-star help, necessarily - you just need to have players you can count on as the options above the role-players. Like, there has to be a class of player better/more consistent than JR Smith and Iman Shumpert that gets to play 30 minutes a night at important positions, but not as good as even a low-level all-star like Klay Thompson. I would be more confident in CLE if the second healthy gun on their roster was even Bradley Beal instead of Live/Die.
Seriously...you guys watch basketball. 30 minutes of JR Smith and Iman Shumpert cannot be counted on for victory. It can get lucky if they step up. They may even get hot for multiple games and surprise you. But you can't count on them - especially against teams that aren't Eastern Conference dogshit/equally-flawed. Anyone talking about Irving being there and not mentioning him being injured is being disingenuous anyway. He's still good, and is very much why they were able to at least get this far...but still - injured.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
Before the series began people couldn't stop singing the praises of JR and Iman though.
Do you really not think putting up 38 shots would be tiring?
TheSadRanger
Banned
that Bynum Jesus defense
smh, I'm not even a Cavs fan but watching their floor spacing really bothers me.
ryutaro's mama
Member
3 Knicks
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
Probably is, but using fatigue to excuse choke behavior is one of the most creatively bankrupt excuses I've ever seen considering you could retroactively apply it to damn near any poor late game performance.
Freedom = $1.05
Banned
Mozgov was away from the team long enough for the stench to dissipate.
Uno Venova
Banned
I really want to see this in motion, how long were they standing there?
ryutaro's mama
Member
How many shots did Iverson take in 2001 vs. Lakers? Sixes won the game, in OT, right?
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
He took 41 shots.
And before they joined the Cavs they were a laughing stock to most people.
Either way, Lebron is the only person on the Cavs that can create for himself and others, unless Kyrie can go. Kyrie looked okay most of the time, but now the Cavs fear he may be out for the rest of the Finals.
Yup. I think he took 46. LeBron was, what, 3 inches from hitting a game winner? Saying he choked last night sounds insane to me.
Also, as AI's team showed, that strategy isn't sustainable. The Warriors are going to let LeBron shoot himself to death.
KINGofCRA5H
Member
I really want to see this in motion, how long were they standing there?
Blatt is pretty damn lucky. He gets paid to do this
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
Do you even believe yourself right now? Yeah, he almost made the shot. A lot of people almost do a lot of things, so what? Did Iverson miss 9 shots and turn the ball over 3 times in OT?
ryutaro's mama
Member
There you go.
captmcblack
Member
People couldn't stop singing their praises because the Cavs kept winning. It also didn't hurt that complimenting them continued the "omg knicks are incompetent phil jax gave them away for nothing just like chandler dolan still runs them isiah future" narrative that has existed the entire season.
Neither one of them did anything statistically different than their time on the Knicks; they just got bumped down the lineup in Cleveland since, again, instead of having to be 30 minute a night players required to make plays consistently, they got to be 20 minute role-players whose contributions after LBJ/Irving/Love were gravy.
Anyway, Lebron shooting 40+ shots and not making plays for others is *exactly* what the Warriors want. This is just like the 2004 Lakers where Kobe and Shaq got to do whatever they wanted, and everyone else was worthless or too old. Pistons loved that shit.
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
wat
I bet you think I'm a Cavs fan, don't you? It probably shocks you that someone rooting for the Warriors could possibly think it's explainable why LeBron might have been less effective down the stretch.
Also, if LeBron choked by missing a potential game winner, did Curry choke by having his layup blocked?
ryutaro's mama
Member
When people say he "choked" I think they mean he didn't ultimately close the deal in eXtra time. Had he missed the game winner and won the game in OT, none of this choke stuff happens.
Hence the reason I mentioned Iverson shooting 40+ times but ultimately his team won that game in OT.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
Doesn't surprise me at all who you root for. Your opinion is your opinion and it seems awfully flawed.
Banana Aeon
Member
wat
The Monstars took his b-ball powers.
Amentallica
Unconfirmed Member
wat
Lmao when I saw that live last night I choked on my water.
Yeah, the Iverson game was incredible. I think this Warriors team is the best team since that Lakers team, so it's pretty crazy how similar the two Game 1s were. It's really just a matter of inches that separated the teams. I think it's fascinating that people think LeBron choked by missing that final shot (which was a terrible shot) but no one seems to care that Curry had his layup blocked. It's a lot of "well, this team won and this team lost" analysis, which is always frustrating to me.
Saying someone "choked" doesn't say anything, especially when LeBron has good clutch stats. It's important to figure out why the game ended up like it did. Maybe I'm wrong that shooting 38 times is exhausting. But I'm trying to understand what happened instead of just overreacting to one missed shot.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Even as a fan of the Lakers, I don't think I have ever seen a moment more deserving of the term SWAG than Iverson breaking Tyronn Lue's ankles, hitting the jumper and then stepping over him.
That shit was...WOW!
Parmadillo Marshmallow
Member
David Blatt timeout speech: "Give, the ball, to LeBron."
Commas inserted on purpose, for timing.
KINGofCRA5H
Member
The Warriors are 80-18 for the season, including playoffs
What
What
As a warriors fan, LeBron didn't choke...he just missed a low percentage shot at the end of regulation and was too tired to be effective in overtime. Choking would be like he tripped and fell on his face going in for the game-winning dunk.
But I find it funny all the people screaming "He needs more help! Look at the stats for everyone else!" when he took almost half their shots and had the ball on isos all the time. "Shumpert and JR had zero assists! Unacceptable!". Well no shit...when you choose to play iso ball with one player the entire game nobody else is going to do anything. And when they do get the ball they won't be engaged enough to do anything with it. Those are the choices you make when you play that brand of ball. Want them to contribute more? Don't play that way.
But I find it funny all the people screaming "He needs more help! Look at the stats for everyone else!" when he took almost half their shots and had the ball on isos all the time. "Shumpert and JR had zero assists! Unacceptable!". Well no shit...when you choose to play iso ball with one player the entire game nobody else is going to do anything. And when they do get the ball they won't be engaged enough to do anything with it. Those are the choices you make when you play that brand of ball. Want them to contribute more? Don't play that way.
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
They're also something like 52-0 including playoffs if they get a 15+ pt lead at any point in a game.
Blatt confirmed to be the coach from Hey Arnold. (GIVE THE BALL TO TUCKER!)
Jack Remington
Banned
2002 Lakers vs Nets was probably the most lopsided I remember.
Was that the one where K Mart was injured (or was he sick)?
Imagine if the Cavs never abandoned Blatt's Princeton-style offense. LeBron wanted to run this iso crap, so they are, but having a system that encouraged team play means they wouldn't be in this situation now.
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