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[plagiarize]

It's peoples genuine fear?

I mean let's face it Brexit happened because of people's fear of immigration and the possibility that some were terrorists.

If more and more and more of these attacks happen, people will want further action, but I don't exactly know what else we can do as a country, we've already withdrawn from Europe, so what's next?

More security? More freedoms diminished to keep us safe?

Certainly more fear, suspicion and division though.

If you think these sort of attacks can carry on and people won't continually make increasingly alarmed choices to try and stop them then I don't know what to tell you.

If I read that post right, it was saying we need to acknowledge the religious component of these terrorists in order to stop authoritarian governments from happening... when the people highlighting the religious components seem to be the ones trying to create the authoritarian governments in the first place.

Those preaching togetherness and open borders, aren't the ones forming authoritarian countries.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

The similarities to how US conservatives treat the latest mass shooting incident to how leftists treat the latest Islamic terrorist attack cannot be overstated. It really is striking. Obfuscate, kick the can down the road ("now isn't the time!"), pretty much do anything to deny that there is a problem.

Other than a massive infringe of civil liberties or wide bans/deportation of entire groups of people, what is your solution?

There's clearly a fucking problem, but to act like there's some brilliant solution if the leftists just stop putting their fingers in their ears is fucking stupid.

 

[BocoDragon]

Wow what?

What makes this attack Islamic? What's Islam got against Ariana Grande fans?

A radical attack? Sure. Could they be muslims too? Yep. That doesn't make it religious terrorism. Though I know that's a popular buzzword these days but correlation does not imply causation.

A West vs Middle-East terrorism? Sure, I could see that with what's been happening the last few decades.

That's not really about religion is it. Not a popular discussion topic in the west though.

Much easier to just blindly blame Islam.

I'm all for the "wait and see if it really is Islamic terrorism" sentiment, but you're talking like radical Islam isn't an established fact of life at this point.

Of course a particular version of Islam is to blame for a major terrorism problem in our world today. That's as banal as saying water is wet.

 

[Doctrine Dark]

Knowing that this bomber was able to wait for the people to arrive outside of the arena before detonating after being unable to get inside makes me feel terrified.

Is there any conceivable way things like this can be stopped? How can you even distinguish a guy standing on a street from a normal guy or a suicide bomber? It almost seems impossible without the proper insight.

 

[damisa]

Those preaching togetherness and open borders, aren't the ones forming authoritarian countries.

If this keeps happening the ones preaching togetherness and open borders will lose elections to the authoritarians

 

[El-Pistolero]

Oh bullshit

Nope, it's not, but you got to know more about them than some superficial knowledge, like 99% of the people who throw a barrage of comments...

 

[salty_Josh]

The similarities to how US conservatives treat the latest mass shooting incident to how leftists treat the latest Islamic terrorist attack cannot be overstated. It really is striking. Obfuscate, kick the can down the road ("now isn't the time!"), pretty much do anything to deny that there is a problem.

And you think that's what I'm doing here? I'm not

These are the exact same posts that people make after any US mass shooting event in response to people that bring up the issue of gun control. Do you feel the same about those posts?

These two things aren't the same. It's kinda sick to compare them like that. I'm just aking for people to have some empathy for the families waiting to hear from loved ones before being the big hero and giving their two pennies worth on why this happened and what should happen next. All I'm asking for is this thread to be about the victims and the event - not "whether religion is really responsible for this one"

 

[AcademicSaucer]

Other than a massive infringe of civil liberties or wide bans/deportation of entire groups of people, what is your solution?

There's clearly a fucking problem, but to act like there's some brilliant solution if the leftists just stop putting their fingers in their ears is fucking stupid.

Ban Saudi Arabia, Qatar, etc from funding, building, sponsoring, having anything to do with religious activities in your country, ban their preachers, ban their propaganda.

Thats never going to happen tho because selling them weapons and having business with them is more important than stoping salafism and wahhabism from infiltrating and poisoning your country, thats something all politicians have in common.

 

[Stead Fast]

Knowing that this bomber was able to wait for the people to arrive outside of the arena before detonating after being unable to get inside makes me feel terrified.

Is there any conceivable way things like this can be stopped? How can you even distinguish a guy standing on a street from a normal guy or a suicide bomber? It almost seems impossible without the proper insight.

That's the most terrifying thing: you really can't. You can't tell (beyond reasonable doubt), when someone is going to steer a vehicle into a crowded area either. The only substantial change to prevent these kinds of attacks is heavy reform to civil liberties, and even then you're depriving the public of their own freedoms to the point where a terrorist could argue they're 'winning', and even sadder still is the probability that said bombers wold just adapt to find more ways of committing mass murder.

 

[Betty]

If I read that post right, it was saying we need to acknowledge the religious component of these terrorists in order to stop authoritarian governments from happening... when the people highlighting the religious components seem to be the ones trying to create the authoritarian governments in the first place.

Those preaching togetherness and open borders, aren't the ones forming authoritarian countries.

I'm just saying that our voices for unity and better understanding are more likely to be sidelined as long as attacks like these keep happening that instill the precise kind of terror and anger in people that the attackers want.

 

[CTLance]

Yikes. Just woke up to these news, how terrible.

My condolences.

 

[Skyzard]

I'm all for the "wait and see if it really is Islamic terrorism" sentiment, but you're talking like radical Islam isn't an established fact of life at this point.

Of course a particular version of Islam is to blame for a major terrorism problem in our world today. That's as banal as saying water is wet.

Something being repeated ad nauseum on fox news doesn't make it fact or even logical.

 

[Brinbe]

Only a matter of time before a public space like this in the Western World was violated. If you really think about it, it is
near impossible to stop. It's extremely terrifying and luckily, up till now, we in the first world haven't had to worry about just going out to these places like an arena or a Church and being a target like so many in the war-torn regions of the world. That's gonna change now and my thoughts go out to all the victims of this tragedy and the Greater Manchester area. =(

 

[BocoDragon]

Something being repeated ad nauseum on fox news doesn't make it fact or even logical.

Fuck Fox News.

Radical Islam exists. Welcome to planet earth. We have things called Isis, Al Qaida and the Muslim Brotherhood here. You might want to read up on it.

 

[Jasup]

Ugh, I just woke up to the news. My condolences to everyone affected.

 

[plagiarize]

I'm exhausted. 19 people are dead. More than 50 are injured who knows how badly. That number might be higher by the time I wake up.

That some people pray to a slightly different God (or pray at all) isn't the answer to why we witnessed such horrors tonight.

Nor is it the answer to how we prevent or discourage attacks like this.

I'm not smart enough (certainly at this exact minute) to throw out an argument that will sway any one I'm talking to... and I hope those who aren't about to tap out can make a convincing enough defense that anyone following along who hasn't already made their mind up, will be able to see that it isn't remotely important that we label this with the word 'Islamic'. Certainly not before there has been any confirmation that it has anything to do with middle eastern terrorist groups claiming to be fighting for Islamic causes.

 

[Doctrine Dark]

That's the most terrifying thing: you really can't. You can't tell (beyond reasonable doubt), when someone is going to steer a vehicle into a crowded area either. The only substantial change to prevent these kinds of attacks is heavy reform to civil liberties, and even then you're depriving the public of their own freedoms to the point where a terrorist could argue they're 'winning', and even sadder still is the probability that said bombers wold just adapt to find more ways of committing mass murder.

Yeah, I agree. This really makes me feel hopeless. It seems like no matter what, terrorists will find a way to exploit an opening--no matter how small, and use it to their advantage to harm innocents.

One of the analysts on Fox said the only thing he can think of is watching for someone with a bookbag or a large duffel bag trying to get near a crowd. That's obviously a very hard thing to take note of when there's a large amount of people.

The only takeaway here is that the bomber never got into the arena, which would've undoubtedly led to more fatalities. Despite that, the loss of those 19 (and potentially more) is still unbearable. Knowing that they went to the concert and lost their lives as they left hurts....

 

[Melkezadek]

Fuck Fox News.

Radical Islam exists. Welcome to planet earth. We have things called Isis, Al Qaida and the Muslim Brotherhood here. You might want to read up on it.

Don't even have to mention terrorist organizations. Wahhabism is a radical strain of Islam that is practiced. It is by no means mainstream, but to act like it doesn't exist is insane.

 

[Skyzard]

Fuck Fox News.

Radical Islam exists. Welcome to planet earth. We have things called Isis, Al Qaida and the Muslim Brotherhood here. You might want to read up on it.

ISIS is a great name that way. Sort of like the Lord's Resistance Army.

Neither have much to do with religion. There's a reason they exist and it's not to spread the good word.

As I was saying, involving religion just blurs the details of why there are issues and conflicts to begin with. Focusing on recruitment tactics instead of driving forces.

Eventually it becomes the only part of the conversation as it has now. Everything else that has any logic is ignored to push some simple hate.

 

[Metalmarc]

Since reading the news at 3am uk time, when i woke for the loo, i havent been able to go back to sleep its now just gone 5am and i am meant to be up in less than a hour for work.

Its on my mind because i have a arena concert to go to here in the UK in a few days and i have been wondering whether to go or not. Because in this instance the arena can have all the security it wants, but it's the surrounding areas that are open to attack.

I think i will , its just at that time of the morning i have been unable to think straight, anyway

my thought are with all the people and their families.

 

[TsunamiOfSwagger]

Absolutely devastated. My home city. Can't believe the amount of deaths and injuries.
Lost for words.

 

[Kibbles]

Edit. Hmm I'll leave off the internet detective. Tweets were unsettling but could just be someone who needs help. Will wait and see what law enforcement finds.

 

[cpp_is_king]

Got to be a person of interest here at least... Creepy.

http://galaxieslouis.tumblr.com/post/160968561484/please-signal-boost-this-this-man-has-been

Can someone translate this into English?

 

[Clockwork5]

We will be saddened and angered. Then we will forget. Then it will happen again.

My condolences go out to those affected but those words lose their meaning a bit more each time I say them.

 

[radios shipping overview]

The similarities to how US conservatives treat the latest mass shooting incident to how leftists treat the latest Islamic terrorist attack cannot be overstated. It really is striking. Obfuscate, kick the can down the road ("now isn't the time!"), pretty much do anything to deny that there is a problem.

Sure, there's a problem. It's radicalization of disenfranchised males. That goes for white male lone-wolf attacks as it does for the French and American nationals who attacked their own countrymen.

 

[Azzanadra]

I think we are long past the point we may have to accept terrorism as a simple fact of life in the western world like any other criminal activity or killing ending machines or whatever, not saying we shouldn't seek solutions but it won't magically be solved overnight by one simple trick or another so rather than get so riled up and irrational every time something happens, we need to remain rational and pragmatic.

As for if Islam the religion matters in this trouble with terrorism, honestly it doesn't matter- in the pragmatic world it is individuals who are causing these issues so really our efforts should be to target these individuals who practice and believe such things. Islam means millions of different things to different people, and while it may be the motivator and plays a role in these incidents, at this point in the history of radical Islamic terrorism we have moved past such speculative debate.

All I know is as someone who is agnostic but comes from a Muslim family, I am going to have to do a lot of apologizing tomorrow. Le sigh.

 

[Syder]

Got to be a person of interest here at least... Creepy. Tweets at the link.

http://galaxieslouis.tumblr.com/post/160968561484/please-signal-boost-this-this-man-has-been

Just seems like a weird, bewildered fan. I highly doubt they're associated.

 

[Ominym]

Really guys? These kids haven't been dead 12 hours and you're turning it into an argument about the relationship between religion and terrorism? Come the fuck on and have some respect. People died. You should be ashamed trying to use their deaths as ammunition to support your political or non-political ideologies. You're just as bad as that deadbeat comedian already making hacky jokes.

To echo what others have said, these conversations need to be had. Saying "not now" and forgetting about the incident is not the right move.

Having tough conversations about how to better prevent this type of issue in the future is how you honor the fallen. Not by ignoring or avoiding their tragedy.

No one is advocating disturbing those grieving. only letting those removed from it discuss it.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

A good way to start solving the problem would be to start putting pressure on all those people who were throwing a party for Trump in Saudi Arabia but we all know there's too much money at stake for that to happen. That joke of a travel ban excluded several problem nations like SA because Trump would not dare cross them.

To echo what others have said, these conversations need to be had. Saying "not now" and forgetting about the incident is not the right move.

Having tough conversations about how to better prevent this type of issue in the future is how you honor the fallen. Not by ignoring or avoiding their tragedy.

No one is advocating disturbing those grieving. only letting those removed from it discuss it.

Greater minds than of ours have dedicated their lives to coming to solutions and their best ideas only mitigate the problem, not eradication.

 

[Clockwork5]

A good way to start solving the problem would be to start putting pressure on all those people who were throwing a party for Trump in Saudi Arabia but we all know there's too much money at stake for that to happen. That joke of a travel ban excluded several problem nations like SA because Trump would not dare cross them.

It's time you pulled your fingers out of your ears.

 

[Doctrine Dark]

The guy in these tweets sounds like a disturbed, lonely man. I doubt he's the bomber, though.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

It's time you pulled your fingers out of your ears.

I'll do that as soon as Trump pulls his head out of the Saudi royal family's ass buddy.

 

[Head of Vengarl]

I cannot fathom the amount of hatred a person must feel to bomb a concert full of young teens and kids. Absolutely sickening. So sad for the victims and their families.

 

[Laughing Banana]

Condolences to all the victims and their families/friends/important people/loved ones.

Also, as a Muslim, it's hard to pinpoint my feelings exactly reading all the discussion here. It is as if many are expecting me to grovel on my feet and apologize profusely for something that I don't even do or condone.

Anyways, for fear of people thinking this is my way of making this "about the Muslims" instead "about the victims", I'll just stop here and not say anything any further. If I do it it's not beyond a distinct possibility that many would label me posting with an agenda or me trying to downplay the whole event or something like that.

Once again, condolences to all who are affected by this tragedy.

 

[DrSlek]

Got to be a person of interest here at least... Creepy. Tweets at the link.

http://galaxieslouis.tumblr.com/post...s-man-has-been

Cut it out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdWcDh1wmTE

 

[Rktk]

Australain Parliament had a moment silence.
https://twitter.com/mearesy/status/866872054955429890

 

[Izuna]

I couldn't sleep

Fuck the people who did this

Fuck all of their supporters

 

[Heshinsi]

I cannot fathom the amount of hatred a person must feel to bomb a concert full of young teens and kids. Absolutely sickening. So sad for the victims and their families.

Let's not forget that militants in Syria bombed buses full of women and children. Human life has absolutely no value to these barbarians. RIP to the victims.

 

[O_Atoll]

Wow another attack in Europe. My condolences.

 

[Skyzard]

Australain Parliament had a moment silence.
https://twitter.com/mearesy/status/866872054955429890

I wonder how many of these the Aussies respected also:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in_May_2017

 

[MIMIC]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdWcDh1wmTE

Ugh. The Internet was such a colossal mistake.

 

[Sinfamy]

ISIS is a great name that way. Sort of like the Lord's Resistance Army.

Neither have much to do with religion. There's a reason they exist and it's not to spread the good word.

As I was saying, involving religion just blurs the details of why there are issues and conflicts to begin with. Focusing on recruitment tactics instead of driving forces.

Eventually it becomes the only part of the conversation as it has now. Everything else that has any logic is ignored to push some simple hate.

Religion isn't just about doing good.
And it's totally about spreading it, just not not through words.

 

[OfTheOverflow]

I wonder how many of these the Aussies respected also:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in_May_2017

Why does it matter? How many of those have as strong ties to Australia as the UK?

 

[Profanity]

I wonder how many of these the Aussies respected also:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in_May_2017

For crying out loud, they're an ex-British colony.

 

[brokenbeans]

Why does it matter? How many of those have as strong ties to Australia as the UK?

You ever heard of respect?

No didn't think so.

 

[wandering]

Sure, there's a problem. It's radicalization of disenfranchised males. That goes for white male lone-wolf attacks as it does for the French and American nationals who attacked their own countrymen.

NPR had a story on a Danish town with an interesting approach to the problem.

http://www.npr.org/sections/health-...town-helped-young-muslims-turn-away-from-isis

Funnily enough, not treating individual Muslims as enemies of the public helps to stop them from becoming enemies of the public. Who would've thought.

 

[99Luffy]

This has been the sentiment from others replying to that poster, and yeah, you're not totally wrong.

But while lone wolf crazies will always be a thing we just have to deal with, they are not usually united under a common banner or supported by so many like minded individuals.

This particular brand, suicide bombing, is really only doable when someone has a belief in a hereafter. Convincing non-religious people to carry out similar acts is almost impossible.

I just hate how people react to these attacks as if religion shouldn't be considered a factor and isn't important to studying why it happened.

It just seems pointless to say, an athiest terrorist would just find ways of killing people without blowing himself up.

 

[Liljagare]

Damn, not again, and screw terrorists of all kinds. :\

 

[WeirdoStalkerJr]

Religion isn't just about doing good.
And it's totally about spreading it, just not not through words.

Religion is a old fossil of a savage age in which to govern lawlessness. It has no place in modern society.

 

[waveuponwave]

NPR had a story on a Danish town with an interesting approach to the problem.

http://www.npr.org/sections/health-...town-helped-young-muslims-turn-away-from-isis

Funnily enough, not treating individual Muslims as enemies of the public helps to stop them from becoming enemies of the public. Who would've thought.

Thanks for the link, that's a fascinating approach. And I needed something positive right now