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[BocoDragon]

ISIS is a great name that way. Sort of like the Lord's Resistance Army.

Neither have much to do with religion. There's a reason they exist and it's not to spread the good word.

As I was saying, involving religion just blurs the details of why there are issues and conflicts to begin with. Focusing on recruitment tactics instead of driving forces.

Eventually it becomes the only part of the conversation as it has now. Everything else that has any logic is ignored to push some simple hate.

That's just not true. From ISIS' perspective, it is all about religion.

This "it's just a recruitment tactic" is mental gymnastics. No one who actually studies the group asserts this.

Do you believe if you get to Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi and scan his brain, you'll find out that he's actually an atheist shrewdly using a religion purely for political purpose? Please. He really does want a caliphate. That's a religious goal.

Radical Islamic terrorism is about religion. Maybe it's not about your religion or the religion of millions of Muslims... but it is certainly about the terrorists' religion.

 

[ronaldthump]

This was not easy reading

http://www.*****************/news/a...anchester-terrorist-attack.html?ITO=applenews

Especially the bits about the skin and faeces. Ugh.

(Its daily mail) but yeah. Didnt realise its a banned site

 

[Rktk]

I wonder how many of these the Aussies respected also:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in_May_2017

Does the high response to this thread with it being an attack in the UK bother you too?

 

[Skyzard]

^ Why would it?

I simply don't buy the showing of respect only to other white nations as a sign of integrity, it's the opposite really.

That's just not true. From ISIS' perspective, it is all about religion.

This "it's just a recruitment tactic" is mental gymnastics. No one who actually studies the group asserts this.

Do you believe if you get to Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi and scan his brain, you'll find out that he's actually an atheist shrewdly using a religion purely for political purpose? Please. He really does want a caliphate.

Radical Islamic terrorism is about religion. Maybe it's not about your religion or the religion of millions of Muslims... but it is certainly about their religion.

If you say so.

 

[Sinfamy]

Religion is a old fossil of a savage age in which to govern lawlessness. It has no place in modern society.

Of course, but people will always defend it because "it does some good'.
The little good it may do isn't worth all the negative things that come with it.

 

[Kaako]

R.I.P to the innocent lives lost and injured by this act of cowardice and terror. Thoughts and prayers are with their friends and loved ones.

 

[Prurient]

Oh cool everyone is in this thread arguing and getting angry at each other.

It's almost like that's the point of these attacks or something.

 

[Azzanadra]

Of course, but people will always defend it because "it does some good'.
The little good it may do isn't worth all the negative things that come with it.

I am not big on religion, but religion is just another form of ideology, and ideology is fundamental to the human experience- ideology is also profoundly dangerous taken to the extreme, but if religion never existed this desire for meaning and the extremism of radical belief would have manifested in other ways,

Heck, it already has- Imperialism, slavery, Nazi Germany, the Soviet Union etc.

 

[TyrantII]

Is there any conceivable way things like this can be stopped? How can you even distinguish a guy standing on a street from a normal guy or a suicide bomber? It almost seems impossible without the proper insight.

You can't. And anyone telling you otherwise is lying to cover their ass (politicians) or to steal a buck (security corps).

As sad as this is, terrorism the world over is still down historically. What's new is instant communication, social media, and 24/7 news that feeds on blood and death like a vampire.

 

[GhostTrick]

I just woke up, that's fuckin horrible. :/

That's just not true. From ISIS' perspective, it is all about religion.

This "it's just a recruitment tactic" is mental gymnastics. No one who actually studies the group asserts this.

Do you believe if you get to Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi and scan his brain, you'll find out that he's actually an atheist shrewdly using a religion purely for political purpose? Please. He really does want a caliphate. That's a religious goal.

Radical Islamic terrorism is about religion. Maybe it's not about your religion or the religion of millions of Muslims... but it is certainly about the terrorists' religion.

And what's the point of having a caliphate ? If not to rule over it as a calif ? I mean sure, there are religious motives. But just as you cant dismiss the religious ideas here, you cant dismiss the political/money/power goal here.

 

[norinrad]

NPR had a story on a Danish town with an interesting approach to the problem.

http://www.npr.org/sections/health-...town-helped-young-muslims-turn-away-from-isis

Funnily enough, not treating individual Muslims as enemies of the public helps to stop them from becoming enemies of the public. Who would've thought.

I never looked at things from this perspective. Thanks for the link.

 

[Media]

Are there any further updates or are we just completely off topic noe?

 

[SteveO409]

Are there any further updates or are we just completely off topic noe?

off topic

 

[Juicy Bob]

Fuck me. What news to wake up to.

 

[Blue Ninja]

Fucking hell, what terrible news to wake up to. RIP to all the dead, you didn't deserve this.

 

[Ashes]

For crying out loud, they're an ex-British colony.

Why does it matter? How many of those have as strong ties to Australia as the UK?

Nobody cared about the Quebec terrorist attack either though.

But I am not sure what point I am making tbh.

My heart is completely broken this morning. They're just kids who went to a concert...

 

[Madness]

NPR had a story on a Danish town with an interesting approach to the problem.

http://www.npr.org/sections/health-...town-helped-young-muslims-turn-away-from-isis

Funnily enough, not treating individual Muslims as enemies of the public helps to stop them from becoming enemies of the public. Who would've thought.

What is point of posts like this in thread whe we don't even know if attacker was muslim. Also, that whole article, none of it mentioned anything about the number of returning individuals, recidivism rates, etc. To be honest, I have worked with murderers, biolent offendera and at risk youth for years. They are charismatic, intelligent individuals, but they wouldn't hesitate snapping my neck if they wanted. These people may be welcomed with open arms to try and stop their deradicalization, but what a massive injustice
Imagine how many Syrians or Iraqis these people killed, women raped. So many acts of violence committed with no real way for them to know.

That all said, honestly let's wait for ACTUAL information about attacker and motives.

 

[Stead Fast]

Are there any further updates or are we just completely off topic noe?

According to the Guardian the injured is at 59+ by now, but a lot of people expected that number to slowly rise as more finally get treatment. Also May is to hold an emergency Cobra meeting past 9am. Until then, updates won't be too swift.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/live/2017/may/22/manchester-arena-ariana-grande-concert-explosion-england

 

[The Faceless Master]

Really guys? These kids haven't been dead 12 hours and you're turning it into an argument about the relationship between religion and terrorism? Come the fuck on and have some respect. People died. You should be ashamed trying to use their deaths as ammunition to support your political or non-political ideologies. You're just as bad as that deadbeat comedian already making hacky jokes.

you're using the same tactics as the NRA

 

[Lonely1]

Ugh. Terrible news to woke up to.

 

[Nuu]

NPR had a story on a Danish town with an interesting approach to the problem.

http://www.npr.org/sections/health-...town-helped-young-muslims-turn-away-from-isis

Funnily enough, not treating individual Muslims as enemies of the public helps to stop them from becoming enemies of the public. Who would've thought.

Just like gang violence and drug abuse, there are a lot of proven, easy, and cheap solutions to fix these "basketcase" problems. However, they don't get implemented due to people being uncomfortable with the solutions themselves.

 

[TaterTots]

I'm not going to discuss the politics and religion involved in it all, but I'm sad about this. Need a change.

 

[wandering]

Also, that whole article, none of it mentioned anything about the number of returning individuals, recidivism rates, etc.

Did you actually read it?

Starting in 2012, 34 people went from Aarhus to Syria. As far as the police know, six were killed and 10 are still over there. Of the 18 who came back home, all showed up in Aarslev and Link's office, as did hundreds of other potential radicals in Aarhus — about 330 in total.

Also

But the program is admired for another accomplishment: Since the initial exodus of young people, very few have left from Aarhus for Syria, even when traffic from the rest of Europe was spiking. Last year, in 2015, it was just one person.

 

[GasProblem]

Went to bed with this still being an exploding speaker, and now this. Jesus.

 

[Kerensky]

This was not easy reading

http://www.*****************/news/a...anchester-terrorist-attack.html?ITO=applenews

Especially the bits about the skin and faeces. Ugh.

(Its daily mail) but yeah. Didnt realise its a banned site

When your colon and guts get ripped out, it has to go somewhere.
You can see this in a lot of falling and car crash victims too, abdominal hydraulic pressure spikes, belly pops like a balloon and the digestive tract splatters out as it's one of the least compressive organs around.

Eat your fibers people!

 

[Syder]

Ariana Grande says she's 'broken' after Manchester concert attack

Ariana Grande has expressed her sorrow at the deaths of 19 people in an explosion after a show in Manchester.
The US star is thought to be physically unhurt, but has posted a tweet saying: "Broken. from the bottom of my heart, i am so so sorry. i don't have words."
The blast happened just after the 23-year-old singer had finished performing at Manchester Arena on Monday evening.
Her manager Scooter Braun has also posted a statement, saying "our hearts are broken".
The arena was packed with thousands of her fans at the time - including a large number of teenage girls, who make up most of her fan base.

 

[Dervius]

Woke up to a message from my mother telling me that before I see the news, my younger brother was there but is okay.

Immediately flicked the news on and saw this.

Jesus fucking Christ.

 

[Don'tBeWeird]

What the fuck have I woken up to.

I can't believe this happened in my city.

 

[LewieP]

Utterly heartbreaking news. I moved to Asia three years ago, but I'm from Manchester. I remember the IRA bombing shaking the city.

I've had some contact from loved ones to confirm they're fine, but hard to say for certain whether anyone I've had any connection with would have been present.

Sickening to see the likes of Farage already try and make political capital from this tragedy.

Manchester is a wonderful multicultural city, and migrants from a huge variety of parts of the world made it what it is today. I'm guessing people blaming "muslims" as a whole have not ever been to Manchester, where there is a large Muslim population (which started because we specifically asked people from Muslim countries to move here), and these people have contributed a huge amount to the culture and personality of the city. Religious extremists with violent intent are not representative of their religion as a whole.

There's no place for hatred in the wake of these kinds of horrific attacks, only compassion for the victims and families of the victims.

 

[Ashes]

There was a guy on radio five live who was blown 20 feet and he got up and went looking for his family.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

Of course, but people will always defend it because "it does some good'.
The little good it may do isn't worth all the negative things that come with it.

You realize religion isn't an entity, correct?

 

[Stead Fast]

Ariana Grande says she's 'broken' after Manchester concert attack

Heard this a couple of times getting ready for work, her manager also had a statement, very much the same with regards to mourning those lost, and expressing thanks to the first responders from the emergency services.

https://mobile.twitter.com/scooterbraun/status/866844544322592768

 

[Flo_Evans]

I just woke up, that's fuckin horrible. :/



And what's the point of having a caliphate ? If not to rule over it as a calif ? I mean sure, there are religious motives. But just as you cant dismiss the religious ideas here, you cant dismiss the political/money/power goal here.

Maybe you should read up on it.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/

The Islamic State awaits the army of “Rome,” whose defeat at Dabiq, Syria, will initiate the countdown to the apocalypse

.

They literally want a holy war to bring about the apocalypse. There is no money in killing teenagers at a pop concert.

 

[katsubento]

Horrible news. My prayers to the families and the concert goers, workers, everyone who was there.

 

[Golden_Pigeon]

That's just not true. From ISIS' perspective, it is all about religion.

This "it's just a recruitment tactic" is mental gymnastics. No one who actually studies the group asserts this.

Do you believe if you get to Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi and scan his brain, you'll find out that he's actually an atheist shrewdly using a religion purely for political purpose? Please. He really does want a caliphate. That's a religious goal.

Radical Islamic terrorism is about religion. Maybe it's not about your religion or the religion of millions of Muslims... but it is certainly about the terrorists' religion.

The facts that many high-commanders of ISIS were ex-generals of Saddam Hussein (Ba'ath party is built on secularism in opposition to islamism) make me believe that there is a big part of ISIS that is only a cynical manipulation through faith.

Of course, i also accept that the human psychology can be rather complex and i'm sure that you have many sincere people willing to blow themselves up from a religious perspective. People are also great as self-deceiving. I cannot believe that a man like Baghdadi (who have a 4 years diploma in quranic recitation) is sincere when he is pretending to be the Caliph of all muslims and that non-recognition of his status is equal to death. It's harder for me to believe that he actually sincerely think that than he is just using muslims symbology to achieve power.

It's hard to separate the religious motivation from the political ones though. The vast majority of people seduced by the ISIS/Al Qaida ideology are obsessed with injustice done to muslims around the world.

 

[xxracerxx]

There are lots of peaceful Muslims contributing to society.

Exactly. The majority even.

 

[GhostTrick]

Maybe you should read up on it.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/

.

They literally want a holy war to bring about the apocalypse. There is no money in killing teenagers at a pop concert.

There's money in controlling territories. There's also a reason why terrorist organization also do smuggling.

 

[Lucky_Se7enty]

One of my y11 students was there, I hope she is okay.

 

[danthefan]

Utterly heartbreaking news. I moved to Asia three years ago, but I'm from Manchester. I remember the IRA bombing shaking the city.

This was my first thought this morning too, you'd have thought the city was past this kind of thing. Not that I'd ever give brownie points to the IRA but at least there was no loss of life in the 1996 bombing.

This is just an appalling thing. I feel really sad this morning.

 

[Subpar Scrub]

I wonder how many of these the Aussies respected also:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in_May_2017

Unless you actively try to find every daily attack that occurs globally and set aside time to mourn and respect them, how dare you. We're an ex-British colony with strong ties to the UK, so stop with this. It's damn awful.

 

[Jimrpg]

World is so fucked up.

 

[GhostTrick]

One of my y11 students was there, I hope she is okay.

I think this is the most painful fact. :/
Most people here were young ones :/

 

[Gravy Boat]

This is terrifying. I visit Manchester a few times a year and was in the Arena at a gig in March.

 

[sirap]

My prayers to all the victims and muslims who will have to deal with the fallout from this attack.

Manchester is a lovely place and I have so many fond memories from when I grew up there.

 

[Jezbollah]

How is that these kind of threads always bring these kind of people out of their slumber? And share their shitty views.

This is why I don't read these threads on GAF. Ignorant and tasteless posts like that.

At a time we should be pulling together, there are always people who want to pull people apart.

And nothing gets done about it (mods...)

 

[T-Rex.]

Terrible news to wake up to

 

[Golden_Pigeon]

I'm a Muslim living in Manchester.

Thanks for this. Just what I needed to hear.

As a Parisian muslim i understand your feeling bro.

 

[danthefan]

There's money in controlling territories. There's also a reason why terrorist organization also do smuggling.

If they trade at all, which they have to, then by definition it's going to be smuggling. No state is going to openly buy their oil.

 

[Osahi]

Woke up to a message from my mother telling me that before I see the news, my younger brother was there but is okay.

Immediately flicked the news on and saw this.

Jesus fucking Christ.

Shit. Glad he is okay. Take care.

 

[Musha_Soturi]

Just awful. Hope ManchesterGaf are all safe and ok.