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[Ash735]

As a resident of Manchester, we didn't let this bother us today, many people were out today in the city center enjoying the sun, a good handful of shops/stores had chose to close early and there was police blocking off areas and roaming around with assault rifles (which took some getting used to seeing) but overall people tried to keep about as everyday business as usual and stay upbeat, there was a ceremony held to honour those lost in the attack and there was plenty of news cameras and media about.

A lot of buildings in the city center had already raised the terror level to "Critical" and I was told by a few stores that plans are already in place to get more security and keep an extra watchful eye over target buildings over the next two weeks to cover the school holidays, but mostly people were annoyed about the Trams being taken off service and having to find out what replacement bus goes where, etc.

It was a pathetic attack last night by a coward but the people pulled through and I like to think that as a city we've shown the rest of the world how we're willing to not let this affect us.

 

[pagrab]

My son is 8 years old and a fan of Ariana Grande. This makes me additionally empathic to the mother of the victim. Very sad.

 

[Garruson]

Wow. And how about the thousands of people that will suffer from PTSD from witnessing such horrific attacks? How about the thousands upon thousands of families and friends that mourn their lost loved ones? I'm not advocating for far right policies but have some fucking perspective, it's not as black and white as you seem to think it is.

People like you are the new Batman... if there's even a 1 percent chance that a refugee will attack us we have to act, we have to deport them all.

Have some fucking perspective on the refugees fleeing their war torn countries which in part we've helped destroy.

Yeah it's awful some of these people do harm or some related to these people do harm, but realise more good comes from accepting refugees than not letting any in because one person could do such a thing...

 

[indigo-cyclops]

It's ridiculous that Twitter hasn't banned her. Especially since hate speech is illegal here.

It's about time she faced consequence for encouraging hate and discord in this country.

I just want to say that a few weeks ago, Willie Geist of TODAY interviewed the Twitter cofounder. Asked about Trump, why they give him a platform, essentially. His response was, to paraphrase, people need to be held accountable for what they say and think. Especially in positions of power or greater influence.

I think this plays into that. These idiots that say the most disgusting, vile shit on Twitter don't realize the world is watching, critiquing, and not everyone agrees. Hopefully, these words seal her fate someday.

 

[Sarcastic Poster]

Not really, in what way is mass killing based on political goals not the same here? Current terrorist are clear, they call us occupiers and crusaders they broadcast our intervention as being motivation for their attacks. Its no coincidence that these attacks took place post Iraq/Afghan wars which fueled and propagated this extremist ideology.

The IRA's goal was an Ireland without British rule.

ISIS's goal is the destruction of Western civilization.

 

[Jumeira]

The IRA's goal was an Ireland without British rule.

ISIS's goal is the destruction of Western civilization.

AQ goal was removal of forces from muslim lands, they were responsible for the first few waves of attacks, ISIS are an entirely new beast i agree, but theres very little distinction with movements that consider innocent people fair game for political means.

 

[KahooTs]

AQ goal was removal of forces from muslim lands

What forces and why were those forces there? And what issue specifically did AQ have with those forces?

 

[chromatic9]

Reading the attacker actually left England for a while to Libya, his parents are believed to back there and he returned to carry out this attack.

 

[Ether_Snake]

AQ goal was removal of forces from muslim lands, they were responsible for the first few waves of attacks, ISIS are an entirely new beast i agree, but theres very little distinction with movements that consider innocent people fair game for political means.

There is always a distinction to make if you want to find a solution.

 

[TTOOLL]

I don't know if it has been posted yet but here are some Morrissey words on the matter. Completely agree with him. And why is this thread so slow now? I believe it tells a lot, unfortunately.

https://www.facebook.com/Morrissey/posts/1349891061714098

 

[plagiarize]

What I feel people here don't appreciate at all is how long the UK has actually avoided attacks like these. The British security services deserve a massive amount of credit, they have done a fantastic job given the level of threat. It really isn't all that technically difficult to carry out an attack like this - it is only hard because of the vigilance and dedication of British intelligence (and its partners in other countries).

In a forum where the general opinion is that Snowden is a hero and the CIA/MI5/MI6/etc. are fascist scum, I think it's appropriate to give these men and women the appreciation and respect they deserve.

This post deserves applause.

 

[2blackcats]

I don't know if it has been posted yet but here are some Morrissey words on the matter. Completely agree with him. And why is this thread so slow now? I believe it tells a lot, unfortunately.

https://www.facebook.com/Morrissey/posts/1349891061714098

What's he skirting around there? I don't get it.

 

[plagiarize]

I don't know if it has been posted yet but here are some Morrissey words on the matter. Completely agree with him. And why is this thread so slow now? I believe it tells a lot, unfortunately.

https://www.facebook.com/Morrissey/posts/1349891061714098

I hope you don't agree with his criticisms of Sadiq. How many times must he condemn ISIS? Must he do it every time he speaks?

 

[Jumeira]

Reading the attacker actually left England for a while to Libya, his parents are believed to back there and he returned to carry out this attack.

I read his father was outspoken about being anti jihadist, but yes it doesn't add up.

“Abu Ismail will be terribly distraught. He was always very confrontational with jihadi ideology, and this Isis thing isn’t even jihad, it’s criminality. The family will be devastated.”

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...med-salman-abedi-suicide-attack-ariana-grande

What forces and why were those forces there? And what issue specifically did AQ have with those forces?

AQ with Bin Ladin leading was fairly disgruntled with Saudi family allowing US forces to be stationed in SA of all places. After helping Taliban defeat Russia he turned his attention towards western forces based in ME. His war was against the coalition of forces, and anyone supporting Israel, he stated many times he wanted all those engaged with his forces to leave and to ofcourse spread extremist version of Islam in the region. I believe he even freed hostages that were from countries that were not involved with the war, you should be able to find it, im not going to google search this right now obviously but it should be easy to find.

 

[Yamauchi]

What forces and why were those forces there? And what issue specifically did AQ have with those forces?

AQ specifically wanted US and allied forces out of Saudi Arabia and other Gulf Arab states. There was significant deployments of Western forces in this region after Iraq War I, particularly in Saudi Arabia and Qatar. After 9/11 and the 2003 invasion of Iraq, this expanded to include Afghanistan and Iraq. Al-Qaeda wanted these forces out of the region because it (along with the Taliban) was founded and funded by radical Wahhabi jihadists from Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and the UAE.

The 2004 Madrid bombings are often cited as an example of a successful terrorist attack which induced the Spanish government to almost completely withdraw its forces from the region.

ISIS -- formed and funded by similar radical Wahhabis in the Gulf Arab states -- wants Western coalition forces, which it refers to as 'crusaders', out of the region it claims as its caliphate.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

I don't know if it has been posted yet but here are some Morrissey words on the matter. Completely agree with him. And why is this thread so slow now? I believe it tells a lot, unfortunately.

https://www.facebook.com/Morrissey/posts/1349891061714098

Boy that's a lot of words to say a whole lot of nothing!

 

[2blackcats]

This post deserves applause.

Yeah, although throwing the CIA in with MI5/MI6 doesn't feel right to me.

 

[Azzanadra]

I am probably making a stupid comment here, but if 9/11 justified Iraq, why wouldn't all of this terrorism in Europe and America, plus the notoriety of ISIS in general inspire a full on invasion of the region?

 

[plagiarize]

I am probably making a stupid comment here, but if 9/11 justified Iraq, why wouldn't all of this terrorism in Europe and America, plus the notoriety of ISIS in general inspire a full on invasion of the region?

The general consensus in the UK remains that Iraq was a giant mistake. From people subscribing to most major political beliefs.

 

[2blackcats]

I am probably making a stupid comment here, but if 9/11 justified Iraq, why wouldn't all of this terrorism in Europe and America, plus the notoriety of ISIS in general inspire a full on invasion of the region?

What? Iraq had exactly zero to do with 9/11.

And these awful attack are in retaliation for the military interventions that happen in the middle east. Doing more of the same will probably only escalate these attacks further.

 

[Azzanadra]

The general consensus in the UK remains that Iraq was a giant mistake. From people subscribing to most major political beliefs.

I am aware, but the threat then was far more...liquid. Blair and Bush played fast and loose with the connection between Al-Qaeda and Saddam, whereas now we very much know the threat- its not just a shadowy terrorist organization now, but an actual country-like entity.

What? Iraq had exactly zero to do with 9/11.

But that's not what we knew at the time.

 

[jack_package_200]

https://thinkprogress.org/alex-jone...house-gives-infowars-credentials-1c3ab1501ad9

Infowars granted White House press credentials, promptly smears victims of Manchester bombing

On Monday, Infowars announced it has been granted press credentials that will allow Washington bureau chief Jerome Corsi — a prominent swiftboater and birther — to attend White House press briefings.

Later that same day, Infowars founder Alex Jones smeared the victims of the attack during the Ariana Grande show in Manchester that killed at least 22 people, describing them as “liberal trendies.”

“The same people — God love them — on average who are promoting open borders, bringing Islamists in,” he added.

Later during his rant, Jones characterized the victims as “a bunch of liberals who have already run up the white flag to the Islamists, and this happens so more of our liberties can be lost, and so governments in Europe, the U.K., and the U.S. can say, ‘Don’t criticize Muslims, or they’ll blow you up, because they’re the religion of peace.’”

Jesus fucking Christ

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

I am aware, but the threat then was far more...liquid. Blair and Bush played fast and loose with the connection between Al-Qaeda and Saddam, whereas now we very much know the threat- its not just a shadowy terrorist organization now, but an actual country-like entity.



But that's not what we knew at the time.

...what

no, we knew that 9/11 had nothing to do with Iraq at the time, the justification for going into Iraq had literally nothing to do with 9/11

 

[plagiarize]

https://thinkprogress.org/alex-jone...house-gives-infowars-credentials-1c3ab1501ad9



Jesus fucking Christ

Why wait for confirmation of anything. Just push your hateful rhetoric whenever you can.

 

[KahooTs]

AQ with Bin Ladin leading was fairly disgruntled with Saudi family allowing US forces to be stationed in SA of all places.

Half the story but yes, AQ launched a terrorism crusade because a sovereign nation under military pressure from their neighbours requested and were granted military help from allied western nations. I feel it's important to point this out because a cursory glance at your post might have given one the impression AQ's terrorist war was similar to those against foreign military occupiers and made them seem somewhat reasonable actors.

 

[shandy706]

But that's not what we knew at the time.

I was 19 at the time...and everyone knew Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.

 

[Mindwipe]

I just want to say that a few weeks ago, Willie Geist of TODAY interviewed the Twitter cofounder. Asked about Trump, why they give him a platform, essentially. His response was, to paraphrase, people need to be held accountable for what they say and think. Especially in positions of power or greater influence.

I think this plays into that. These idiots that say the most disgusting, vile shit on Twitter don't realize the world is watching, critiquing, and not everyone agrees. Hopefully, these words seal her fate someday.

There are people who replied to the "final solution" tweet telling Hopkins to fuck off who've had their accounts limited as a result. Twitter is moderating, they're just literally moderating the wrong side.

This is what I felt when people were asking for more Twitter moderation. Tech companies are terrible at moderation, so all you end up with is normal people getting their accounts limited for insulting nazis, not blocking the nazis. It is, unfortunately, inevitable.

I don't think this is particularly malicious on Twitter's part, it's just the inevitable consequence of crappy algorithms and poorly paid moderators. Moderate swearing is easy to detect, the nuance of using a phrase that infers genocide much less so.

 

[Jumeira]

Half the story but yes, AQ launched a terrorism crusade because a sovereign nation under military pressure from their neighbours requested and were granted military help from allied western nations. I feel it's important to point this out because a cursory glance at your post might have given one the impression AQ's terrorist war was similar to those against foreign military occupiers and made them seem somewhat reasonable actors.

Yes of course, its an example of his twisted belief and internalising this east/west war that he and his followers/advocates seem to be obsessed with.

 

[GoldenDarkness]

https://thinkprogress.org/alex-jone...house-gives-infowars-credentials-1c3ab1501ad9



Jesus fucking Christ

Thats a fake site.

 

[TiredofWinning]

The 1983 suicide bombing of the American army barracks in Beirut which killed hundreds of American soldiers led to the withdrawal of US troops a few months later.

So yes, these types of attacks do work, and it's a hard truth people have to accept.

Whatever platitudes Andy or Theresa want to spout out to make people feel better wont stop the fact the people will feel fear going to concerts, clubs, restaurants or the polling station.

 

[Acorn]

Thats a fake site.

Hiring a lookalike actor with his exact voice on his infowars channel.. How very devious.

Anyway there is a moving newsnight clip from a Scottish guy that has lived in Manchester for 17 years, I'm not sure how to link to Twitter videos though.

 

[tearsintherain]

I am probably making a stupid comment here, but if 9/11 justified Iraq, why wouldn't all of this terrorism in Europe and America, plus the notoriety of ISIS in general inspire a full on invasion of the region?

This is not a conventional war, where ISIS has trained a bunch of soldiers and sent them to attack Europe. A random guy in Europe gets angry about his life, is probably a second or third generation son of an immigrant and feels like he doesn't fit in the West and has no real link to where his parents come from.

He hears on the internet about ISIS, watches some speeches and feels something inside him awaken, for the first time in his life he hears someone who tells him everything he wants to hear - that he is a soldier, he is in a holy war, he is important, he can make a difference. We've always had tons of people who feel like this by the way in all societies, just in the past we had wars that we sent them into which killed most of them.

What would sending a million soldiers into Syria or Iraq do? We'd kill a few thousand civilians, because that always happens in war. We'd maybe kill a few leaders of ISIS but most would just hide away, disguise themselves as civilians, go into the border areas which are no mans lands, and just disappear until the invasion force leaves. Now even more disaffected youth in Europe would feel like there is a war going on between the West and Islam, and they would feel the desire to make a difference.

Ultimately the west needs better integration. If you are busy with work, if you have a wife, if you have kids, if you have friends, if you belong to a community, you are much less likely to go around killing people. Sure, it'll still happen once in a while, but instead of 25,000+ possible terrorists as Europe has now, it'll drop down to a few hundred and be much more manageable. Ironically the existence of things like the strong welfare support system mean someone can be cut off from society much easier, forcing everyone to either work or be homeless sounds super harsh but in fact may be a better way to force everyone to get along together.

In a decade or two, if the problem isn't solved, you can bet technology will. The police surveillance state will grow to be absolutely massive, and its only a matter of time before scanners can read someones brain and incapacitate them if they mean physical harm to someone else. A Brave New World.

 

[g23]

In a decade or two, if the problem isn't solved, you can bet technology will. The police surveillance state will grow to be absolutely massive, and its only a matter of time before scanners can read someones brain and incapacitate them if they mean physical harm to someone else. A Brave New World.

Lol woah there, i was a believer until this part. Ima need the receipts on that.

 

[paperspace]

⁣

 

[GoldenDarkness]

Hiring a lookalike actor with his exact voice on his infowars channel.. How very devious.

Anyway there is a moving newsnight clip from a Scottish guy that has lived in Manchester for 17 years, I'm not sure how to link to Twitter videos though.

It is fake news, doesn't take long to tell if you look over their site and their facebook page unless ofcourse you want to use it to push an agenda.

 

[jufonuk]

Imagine if this response was used:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.te...theresa-may-becomes-first-pm-deploy-5000/amp/

Operation Temperer - the government plan to put thousands of soldiers on the streets in response to a major terrorist threat

Bbc is doing the usual could be used language I bet other papers are going with it being a given the troops are being deployed.

I know they will be used to keep us safe. But it just freaks me out

 

[Acorn]

It is fake news, doesn't take long to tell if you look over their site and their facebook page unless ofcourse you want to use it to push an agenda.

It's a video of alex Jones himself. What planet are you on? Regardless of the source unless they have somehow created a video with a lookalike you're talking shit to deflect attention.

Oh btw Google it, many outlets have reported and linked the video. I question your motives.

 

[pbsapeer]

https://thinkprogress.org/alex-jone...house-gives-infowars-credentials-1c3ab1501ad9



Jesus fucking Christ

interested that he thinks children are lefty liberals. I don't think I knew what liberal was at the age of 8

 

[Kibbles]

I just want to say that a few weeks ago, Willie Geist of TODAY interviewed the Twitter cofounder. Asked about Trump, why they give him a platform, essentially. His response was, to paraphrase, people need to be held accountable for what they say and think. Especially in positions of power or greater influence.

I think this plays into that. These idiots that say the most disgusting, vile shit on Twitter don't realize the world is watching, critiquing, and not everyone agrees. Hopefully, these words seal her fate someday.

It always puzzles me when people call for Trump to be banned. Like no, let him spew his stupid bullshit lol

 

[Sunster]

Good thing I still have my tinfoil hat.

Lol woah there, i was a believer until this part. Ima need the receipts on that.

I don't think this poster thinks that brain scanners will literally happen. Just that surveillance will be huge and ever present in our lives.

 

[yanipheonu]

The 1983 suicide bombing of the American army barracks in Beirut which killed hundreds of American soldiers led to the withdrawal of US troops a few months later.

So yes, these types of attacks do work, and it's a hard truth people have to accept.

Whatever platitudes Andy or Theresa want to spout out to make people feel better wont stop the fact the people will feel fear going to concerts, clubs, restaurants or the polling station.

For an attack to "work", this implies a particular end goal other than the obvious destruction of a terrorist attack, which may not be viable for lone wolf attacks we've seen lately.

Moreover, while there will always be outliers of terrorist attacks creating intended policy changes, this doesn't appear to be the overall outcome of a terrorist attack, and doesn't appear to even be a particularly good way of creating a desired change.

The main outcomes of a terrorist attack are largely the fear and notoriety created by the attack. And that can have value in terms of creating notoriety for recruiting and establish international presence. We all know who ISIS is after all.

I'm just skeptical terrorism is particularly effective at coercing foreign governments to do anything other than increase security.

 

[GhostWriter24]

My son is 8 years old and a fan of Ariana Grande. This makes me additionally empathic to the mother of the victim. Very sad.

I believe you mean 'empathetic'. Not trying to be rude, just wanted to help you clarify.

 

[Des0lar]

It is fake news, doesn't take long to tell if you look over their site and their facebook page unless ofcourse you want to use it to push an agenda.

Dude what are you on? Thinkprogress is neither a "fake news" site, nor is the Alex Jones story false.

 

[Ashes]

I believe you mean 'empathetic'. Not trying to be rude, just wanted to help you clarify.

Empathic is the older version and fine to use.

 

[MilkyJoe]

So I just saw on the news UK is on the highest alert and an attack is imminent, soldiers will be deployed and more armed police patrols.

My train is relatively empty coming to work today.

 

[AcademicSaucer]

The 1983 suicide bombing of the American army barracks in Beirut which killed hundreds of American soldiers led to the withdrawal of US troops a few months later.

So yes, these types of attacks do work, and it's a hard truth people have to accept.

Whatever platitudes Andy or Theresa want to spout out to make people feel better wont stop the fact the people will feel fear going to concerts, clubs, restaurants or the polling station.

There is a difference between attacking a military target and attacking little girls leaving a concert tho.

 

[Keyser Soze]

So I just saw on the news UK is on the highest alert and an attack is imminent, soldiers will be deployed and more armed police patrols.

My train is relatively empty coming to work today.

Yeah, this was announced yesterday based on intelligence reports - not simply as a result of the previous attack.

While it sounds scary, it is mostly done to give police more power to be ready to deal with threats, otherwise there could be a possibility that they will be spread too thin to respond promptly to situations.

 

[Monty Mole]

Just saw that the missing Olivia Campbell is the fourth named victim. I literally gasped reading that after seeing her mum's emotional plee yesterday. It's so upsetting.

 

[gofreak]

Imagine if this response was used:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.te...theresa-may-becomes-first-pm-deploy-5000/amp/



Bbc is doing the usual could be used language I bet other papers are going with it being a given the troops are being deployed.

I know they will be used to keep us safe. But it just freaks me out

I just read it's now in force, the threat level has been raised to critical. Not true?

https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2017/0524/877482-manchester-uk-terror/

Edit - I see now that though active the speculation is on how much of it will be enacted. Catching up here, sorry...

 

[MilkyJoe]

Yeah, this was announced yesterday based on intelligence reports - not simply as a result of the previous attack.

While it sounds scary, it is mostly done to give police more power to be ready to deal with threats, otherwise there could be a possibility that they will be spread too thin to respond promptly to situations.

Aye they said they'll be replacing the Rozzers that currently protect high risk "targets".

I'm quite surprised at the amount of people that appear to have taken the day off or wfh.

Saying that my train is currently along side a tube train and it too is pretty much empty... Jeepers.