it's most likely multi terrain pattern which i believe is standard issue now, but those guys are probably sf.
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22 dead, 59 injured in Manchester Arena explosion (Being treated as an attack)
- Thread starter E-phonk
- Start date
it's most likely multi terrain pattern which i believe is standard issue now, but those guys are probably sf.
zombiemortar
Member
If you zoom in on the image they're wearing OpsCore FAST helmets with attached Peltor COMTAC III headsets - not standard issue for any military right now and generally reserved for special operations forces. The standard British Army pattern is SLIGHTLY different from standard multicam as well. You can also see that they're wearing plate carriers over a black uniform.
Guerrillas in the Mist
Member
The SAS and SBS have had a domestic counter-terror role for decades - hence their involvement in 1980 for the Iranian Embassy siege - the police here traditionally haven't had the experience or capacity for these type of operations. Before this new CTSFO set-up, we didn't have anything like the FBI's SWAT teams or GIGN/RAID in France.
Soldiussnaku
Member
They really need to be less red tape when multiple reports and verifiable intel is given about potential terrorists.
It takes too much before action us taken on solid ground and intel.
chromatic9
Member
From what the police knew before the attack it does seem this guy shouldn't have been allowed back in to the UK or at least be under a strict search and supervision. Places like France UK Germany need to start sorting out these watch lists with clear extremists. I applaud the muslims who came forward, you tried and the lives could've been saved.
Boy Wander
Member
It's all speculation on our part though. I mean, intelligence could suggest that this guy was part of a bigger plot, so they may have been waiting to see how things unfolded so they could take out a whole group of people at once. I don't know a huge amount about policework but my gut feel is that they were waiting for the right time to get this guy and they got it wrong.
GoldenCrow
Member
The guy was reported over five years ago when he was 17. We don't know what actually took place in terms of intelligence and without doing anything to warrant detaining the individual there isn't much the different authorities can do. I have no idea how intelligence sharing works and how this works in a functioning system to raise flags. There is often the would of, should of, and could of's. Then there is reality most likely with thousands of different suspects, different employees with information collated across a broad spectrum of organisations and IT systems limited by budgets and hierarchy.
yup in the grand scheme of things has harsh this may sound this guy was probs very low on there tracking list anyway just because if im correct theres no previous reported crimes on him etc just alot of him buddying up so to speak with these groups
Insane Metal
Member
Oh God that's really fucked up 
Secret services and police really need to step up their game somehow. Not only in UK, but all over Europe. There are several patterns for most terrorist attacks in recent history.
Maybe you can't stop a lone wolf/nut, but when you have somebody with a history of radicalisation who has recently traveled in a country where terrorist groups are active that should be an instant red flag to put it on high surveillance for at least a good period.
The same with people who get radicalised in prison.
Maybe you can't stop a lone wolf/nut, but when you have somebody with a history of radicalisation who has recently traveled in a country where terrorist groups are active that should be an instant red flag to put it on high surveillance for at least a good period.
The same with people who get radicalised in prison.
TiredofWinning
Member
Oh hey people's brains are starting to make the connection that lower state spending equals poorer state services.
ronaldthump
Member
wow. what a fucking garbage family.
MI5 not acting on warnings. Fuck me.
MI5 not acting on warnings. Fuck me.
ronaldthump
Member
hydragonwarrior
Member
Certainly surveillance for individuals like these. I like to think that those who are going to incite violence have very clear indicators that they are dangerous vs those who aren't, and I think those who are dangerous are relatively few enough that surveillance is possible for a good while.
I was listening to a Canadian radio show (1010) and the hosts kept talking about how Muslims don't speak up, don't report the bad apples .. when a caller pointed out that FBI said that the most tips they receive are from Muslims. Turns out this rat was also warned about, sad the authorities didn't act on it and take this guy out prior to this incident. I mean its not like the case wasn't so obvious, this was SO obvious that you could smell the bullshit off of this family from miles away.
Turbo Killer
Member
Damn his own family tried to turn him in, major fuck up by the authorities.
SirMossyBloke
Member
Do you know how many warnings MI5 probably get on a daily basis? How many men it takes to run full surveillance on each one for 24 hours straight?
There's simply not enough people to follow around all these warnings. The papers always make it sound like they were drawn a map with exact time and location of a bombing and just throw it in a drawer.
How many? Real warnings.
Delete this pls, very offensive.
SirMossyBloke
Member
Well they can't confirm they're real until they check them.
How many? Real or not.
SirMossyBloke
Member
Why are you asking me about my rhetorical question??
Because you said that the are not enough people, so you must know the figures, no?
SirMossyBloke
Member
Well an ex FBI/CIA guy on the news said there's not enough, plus I also said "probably", so I'm not sure why you think I have real numbers. Unless you think MI5 is just lazy.
holygeesus
Banned
Yep. People should watch the HBO documentary 'Homegrown' as it perfectly expands upon why security services can't just hoover up anyone suspected of being radicalised. It's the US obviously but still relevant.
I see no "probably" here:
Plus, if there are not enough people, there surely must be at least an official request for more people or additional budget from the respective department in order to cover the needs, no? That would be the competent thing to do when you are aware that there are real threats that you can't cover.
Unless this case was not considered a real threat. In which case somebody made a serious error in judgement.
SirMossyBloke
Member
8th word in, don't be obtuse. More warnings = more men needed. As I don't know the amount of warnings, I can't possibly tell you the amount of men needed.
Oh I'm sure there has been requests for more men or more budgets, I'm sure they were delivered both immediately with no questions asked.
Then the lack of resources can't be really used as an excuse.
Maybe some procedures need to be revised in order to evaluate even better the real threats in the future.
tearsintherain
Member
Its estimated around 3500 in the UK and around 25,000 across Europe are thought of as potential terrorists.
Dirtyshubb
Member
We are living with a government forcing austerity measures meaning public services are being forced to make savings and cuts wherever they can.
You could have the best argument in the world for more resources and yet the final say comes from the top so in the end you are forced to work with what you have.
If that would be the case then the responsibility would be on the government who decided that.
Dirtyshubb
Member
Well there you go, now you understand why many people have a problem with the current government.
PatThePassive
Member
Just follow all possible actors at all times, sure that doesn't sound possible and it will probably help radicalize more people when they are not a threat but find themselves under surveillance.
The state fucked up but you either start infringing on these people hoping it wont radicalize more people similar to those being watched.
Or you risk attacks like in Manchester and if I remember correctly other attacks in Europe where people who where on a list carried out acts of terror.
And that's assuming they had the resources to watch all those people at all times.
Thornton Reed
Member
After reading this mornings report in the independent I don't ever want to hear "the Muslim community needs to do more" people can fuck off with that bullshit. An unnamed member of his family and people in his community reported this piece of shit to the police, what more could the community to do? I feel so fucking angry reading that report this morning.
Boy Wander
Member
It's well known in the UK that the security services are stretched and undermanned. Been in the news.
Also it's easy to criticize when you have absolutely not a single idea about how they go about their business.
There's the small issue of innocent until proven guilty as well. Secret service might have had a look at him and simply not found anything through the channels of communication they have access to.
Tbf, he looked like just another stoner with a chip on his shoulder if the reports are true. Hardly the stereo typical hardcore religious type.
The two kids from my town were announced as dying last night.
Aweful news, lots of people in common who know the families
http://www.shieldsgazette.com/news/...ictims-of-manchester-suicide-attack-1-8561212
Aweful news, lots of people in common who know the families
http://www.shieldsgazette.com/news/...ictims-of-manchester-suicide-attack-1-8561212
Miles Quaritch
Member
Yeah, it's important to remember this.
We don't want to end up in a situation where police can indefinitely spy/monitor people either, that's too open to abuse. Look at how some anti terror legislation was abused by councils for example.
Some people will slip through the cracks and cause mayhem and murder and that's tragic, but for the most part we're doing pretty well with the powers the authorities have right now, we don't need kneejerk reactions demanding they be given more wide reaching powers that will ultimately be abused.
We've stopped sharing intel on the bomb probe with the US
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1379922
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1379922
GeordieMark
Member
According to an article in The Atlantic the other day, there is enough resource for full time surveillance of 500 people.
I do not think the security services deserve much criticism. If you look at the number of terror fatalities in the U.K. since 7/7, we do extremely well compared to other countries considering we are a major target.
KarneeKarnay
Member
The Services are getting far too much flak in my opinion. Does anyone know how many warnings they get on a daily basis? Or how much manpower it takes to cover just one person. The Services have gotten it right far more often than wrong. There was an article a while back that showed that since 2013 they have stopped up 10 terror attacks. Some other article indicate the number could be way higher.
The issue lies that Terrorism in the West these days, is caused by lone attackers, or lone groups, that have no real ties to the larger terrorist groups in the Middle East. That are usually from the country they attack.
More will be done in light of Manchester, but some people are calling for a total revamp of our anti-terrorism laws for more powers. This is a nightmare scenario for me, I already think they have far too much power as is. It is totally legal for the Police to hold you for 14 days without charge if they suspect you of Terrorism. The definition of terrorism being so grey in this area, that some have claim they were locked up purely because they had the term pop up in their internet history.
The issue lies that Terrorism in the West these days, is caused by lone attackers, or lone groups, that have no real ties to the larger terrorist groups in the Middle East. That are usually from the country they attack.
More will be done in light of Manchester, but some people are calling for a total revamp of our anti-terrorism laws for more powers. This is a nightmare scenario for me, I already think they have far too much power as is. It is totally legal for the Police to hold you for 14 days without charge if they suspect you of Terrorism. The definition of terrorism being so grey in this area, that some have claim they were locked up purely because they had the term pop up in their internet history.