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3rd night of Stockholm riots
- Thread starter phaze
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The notion that injecting a noticeable sum of non educated poor young males from a different culture into your country is not going to create any problem or whatsoever for people other than racists is a desillusional thought. Radical and xenophobic anti inmigration parties are taking ground in many countries due to the lack of anything resembling a rational debate about this issue.
The tax burden in Sweden decreased, as a percentage of GDP, from 52 % to about 44% in the 1990-2011 period.
On a serious note.
So, the individual that was shot and killed by the police was wielding a machete and after his little walk through the neighbourhood with the machete he decided to take a hostage. The police stormed the place and he attacked the officers and he gets shot - to death. If he hadn't attacked the police then maybe he would've gotten out of that situation alive and been thrown in to jail. All and all, the things that he did was fucked up and he needed to be stopped.
And you riot because of that? Because of a maniac getting shot to death? And you throw in some "muslim power" in to that? What the fuck.
So, the individual that was shot and killed by the police was wielding a machete and after his little walk through the neighbourhood with the machete he decided to take a hostage. The police stormed the place and he attacked the officers and he gets shot - to death. If he hadn't attacked the police then maybe he would've gotten out of that situation alive and been thrown in to jail. All and all, the things that he did was fucked up and he needed to be stopped.
And you riot because of that? Because of a maniac getting shot to death? And you throw in some "muslim power" in to that? What the fuck.
scar tissue
Banned
Amen to that. Not going to happen anytime soon though, an influx of uneducated people is exactly what many politicians want.
Edit: IIRC, Australia/NZ have some very restrictive laws concerning immigration. Europe should really take a leaf or two out of their book.
Explain?
'FREEDOM!'
Immigrants and their descendants are the most disenfranchised voters, politicians don't care about them (except for using them as scapegoats) and it shows.
Celtic supporter?
This barely amounts to 1% of what happened in Tottenham, so I'd say it's well overplayed. Damn shame about all these confused and/or asshole kids Even if their rate of participation is lower than the rest of population, they are still a potent force as I'm fairly sure French elections showed.
scar tissue
Banned
Not true. Politicians actively encouraged immigration to use the immigrants as cheap workforce.
Yeah, I don't think they'll find any greater sympathy among the general public.
Most things point toward this having very little political thoughts behind it, rather it seems to be mostly criminals starting the shit, and then more people joined.
The only possible politician I can think of to blame is Göran Persson for his great work in dismantling the Swedish school system.
Most things point toward this having very little political thoughts behind it, rather it seems to be mostly criminals starting the shit, and then more people joined.
The only possible politician I can think of to blame is Göran Persson for his great work in dismantling the Swedish school system.
A slight correction: this is exactly what many corporate executives want, rather tan politicians. Inmigration is in essence an influx of cheap labour in order to bring down work costs. It should come as no surprise to see that extreme right wings groups feeds on traditional blue collar áreas of voters, to the detriment of communist / far left parties. The discourse about how inmigrants "takes the Jobs that no native wants" is a fallacy: inmigrants take the type of Jobs that only low class natives wants. And thus, they became a fertile soil for extremism. The European left wing should really make an introspective soul searching regarding this very issue, taboos be damned.
But anyone that wants to restrict inmigration is obviously a xenophobe and a racist and if he / she is from Europe, a nazi too. Didn't you read the Index librorum prohibitorum of Politically correct discourse?
heliosRAzi
Banned
When does the syndrome set in?
What does that even mean? "The Blacks and Arabs voted for Hollande?"
When the other side wants the vote of the people who hate your guts for existing you don't have much choice.
It's like blaming African-American and Latinos for voting Obama and not Romney...
I wish they were a potent force in elections since it would mean the disfranchisement was over but it's not case at all.
Yes and the problem is that politicians don't care about immigrants and their well being.
These riots do not happen because "they hate our freedom".
Shadow of the BEAST
Banned
The left wants new voters, the right wants to dump wages and social standards. They are in effect in collaboration. The future is extreme inequality, identity politics and corruption. There is no future.
Thats why we need to hang the all of the post 68 political class from the highest tree we can find.
These people have enriched themselves. They have eaten the fruits of their parents labour, and destroyed the future for their children. This is the most spoiled generation of history.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
Sigh, always taking the Eurovision way, way too seriously :/
Count Dookkake
Member
Three days of this suggests that it set in long ago.
Celtic supporter?
Yup, we still sing his songs every game. Hope he comes back in some capacity down the line, the last true world class player that will ever 'waste' his talent in the SPL
Oh, absolutely. Don't take me wrong: right wings politicians are using this in order to play the worst kind of politics there is, identity politics, and they are every bit as guilty as the left wing for creating this situation. But the left wing, once the defenders of the lower classes, have turned into sanctimonous assholes telling blue collar workers about how much horrible people they are for thinking that inmigration have drawbacks. Right wingnuts are doing their shitty thing, but left wing nuts have outright betrayed their constituents, and worst thing is, they are not even aware of that. Both enrage me, but the latter adds sadness in addition to rage.
That being said, I am completely with you on that: the whole generation of political leaders born out of the 68 generation should be rightfully labelled and treated as traitors, and not only in France. This is one of these rare Europe-wide political phenomena, and it is sadly a bad one.
dorkimoe
Gold Member
If i remember correctly that was from like some london riots or something? people posting stuff they looted on twitter
Forsete
Gold Member
If these "kids" hate the police so much, why do they attack the firefighters trying to put out the fires and the paramedics trying to help people?
It is always the same shit over and over.
Soon someone is going to get killed.
Yes, thankfully he just killed himself by accidentally triggering his bomb belt when he was alone.
It is always the same shit over and over.
Soon someone is going to get killed.
Yes, thankfully he just killed himself by accidentally triggering his bomb belt when he was alone.
There is a real societal racism against immigrants, it's not an invention of left wingers to fuck the working classes (mainstream left wing parties are fucking over working class people more by adopting neoliberalism and privatization than telling people to please be nice to immigrants, and we'll hate them as well if you want us to=see Manuel "Sarkozy bis" Valls).
Being left wing means you have to denounce racism, which often hides behind concerns over immigration "we're full!" yeah right.
Ignis Fatuus
Banned
I took a college course on European immigration and I'm still not entirely sure why European multiculturalism has failed so badly compared to the United States.
The_Hitcher89
Member
One of many knobends looting shops in North London under the guise of a youth uprising attempting to effect change.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Tottenham_riots
Shadow of the BEAST
Banned
100% agree.
Forsete
Gold Member
The kid was 69 years old and a known lunatic. I wonder why they cared so much about him?
They probably didnt, it was just a reason to start fucking around.
I understand the sentiment in certain aspects but :
Are the immigrants really going to compete against the native population in the job market? You have the Iraqi bus drivers, security guards in supermarkets and what not, but I just don't see how the wage level is going to suffer as a result of it.
The real problem is disenfranchisement of young males and attitudes towards females and their possibility to advance in society. You have a lot of officials just turning a blind eye to various problems in these communities but that's only going to increase the problems as time goes by. Child abuse is strictly forbidden but is it enforced properly in these families that come from war torn countries?
It's tough, because the parents are good law abiding people who are grateful for living in a safe environment. But there's something wrong in the family, because these kids are not pushed towards integration and higher education (like happened with boat refugees from Vietnam for example and I bet they also had to experience racism).
Are the immigrants really going to compete against the native population in the job market? You have the Iraqi bus drivers, security guards in supermarkets and what not, but I just don't see how the wage level is going to suffer as a result of it.
The real problem is disenfranchisement of young males and attitudes towards females and their possibility to advance in society. You have a lot of officials just turning a blind eye to various problems in these communities but that's only going to increase the problems as time goes by. Child abuse is strictly forbidden but is it enforced properly in these families that come from war torn countries?
It's tough, because the parents are good law abiding people who are grateful for living in a safe environment. But there's something wrong in the family, because these kids are not pushed towards integration and higher education (like happened with boat refugees from Vietnam for example and I bet they also had to experience racism).
What the hell are you on about? Why are you talking about politicians and acting as this is their fucking fault?
speculawyer
Member
Between the bad economy, terrorism, riots like this, and other things I suspect much of the west will clamp down on immigration.
There is even some anti-immigration views on the far-left with environmentalists that feel open immigration doesn't cause various 3rd world countries to 'internalize' their population growth issues such that they don't do anything about them.
There is even some anti-immigration views on the far-left with environmentalists that feel open immigration doesn't cause various 3rd world countries to 'internalize' their population growth issues such that they don't do anything about them.
Necromanti
Member
It's not so much immigration itself, but bad/sloppy immigration policies that they need to clamp down on and reform, IMO. Immigration without proper integration hurts everyone in society.
This is just my uneducated opinion, but getting loads of low skilled people from war torn nations to a country with relatively homogenous population doesn't end well. I doubt it'd be the same if we had as restricting immigration policies as the US.
I think even without policies being changed alot of migrants are going to be looking east. In 50 years I would not be surprised if more people left the uk and Europe than came to these countries.
The balance of power is permanently shifting eastwards.
The same reason why multiculturalism is successful in Australia, Canada, New Zealand, and the UK. We have a civic not an ethnic conception of nationhood. It's the same reason why Anglosphere countries are the least racist in the world.
I'd take the UK out of your list. Multiculturalism only works in new world countries ie countries that were built by immigrants. But even in those countries there's a not of problems and ghettoization.
You Are Viewtiful
Member
Does no one have anything to say about the police brutality? Maybe this is why "multiculturalism is failing"
Forsete
Gold Member
Proof? I haven't seen any thus far. But I haven't checked many videos either.
From what I can see at least 2 mln muslims voted in the 2012 elections so yes they're a potent force and not as disenfranchised as you think them to be.
ThisWreckage
Banned
"Culturally enriched neighborhood" That's some very interesting phrasing.
chaostrophy
Member
Hopefully Europe will take a harder line against the US next time it wants to invade a country and cause massive destruction and displacement of people.
Does racism exist? Absolutely. Does every single person that points out that inmigration causes problems a "hidden racist"? Come on the fuck on. Please realize that it is imposible to have any kind of level headed debate when one of the sides is eager to demonize the other. Being left wing means trying to understand the frustations and problems that the lower class have on their daily lives. And in all seriousness, it doesn't take a genious to figure out that adding more poor people to one country loads its social safety net, the same net that supports the native working class, which is bound to feel the effects of such inmigration policies more directly.
As long as the European left wing keeps with its current discourse of equating any critic to this (and many) pet issue to Adolph Hitler, it will keep hemorraging working class votes towards truthly racist idiots like Jean Marie Le Pen.
Because I believe that these type of incidents are caused when one country absorbs inmigrants faster than they can integrate them into their society, that is, to provide them of proper education, Jobs and services. I don't blame the inmigrants, I blame the idiotic politicians that instaurated such policies without thinking in their far reaching consequences.
Ignis Fatuus
Banned
France as we know it has always had a civic conception of nationhood, they were one of the first modern societies to form on the basis of jus soli. Yet there you see the National Front.
I've tried staying very updated, but I haven't seen any evidence of it the latest days.
Same goes for the rumors about the police calling the rioters and people in these places all kinds of things, no evidence yet.
archnemesis
Member
Remind me again why the police aren't arresting every single rioting kid.
I'm guessing that it's kinda hard to arrest a large group of people throwing bricks, and other than that they don't want to escalate the situation into something even more violent.
Watching some streams right now, feel kinda bad for the "Expressen" (swedish tabloid) reporter. He's standing in front of a burning car and the suddenly the tires explode, scaring the shit out of him :lol
LOL, blaming the US for Muslim immigrants rioting in Sweden, now I've seen everything.
So. Last night ~40 youngsters were throwing stones and torching cars in Hagsätra. One police officer was injured after getting struck in the head with a stone. One person was arrested in Fruängen for arson. A police station got torched in Rågsved, while they got the fire quickly under control, it managed to destroy parts of the station. A couple cars got torched in Husby, but it was 'relatively peaceful' since many parents were voluntarily patrolling the streets.
It appears that the riots are spreading outside of Stockholm. The police has stated that cars were also lit on fire in Malmö.
Source: Finnish national news.
It appears that the riots are spreading outside of Stockholm. The police has stated that cars were also lit on fire in Malmö.
Source: Finnish national news.
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