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3rd night of Stockholm riots
- Thread starter phaze
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moniker
Member
They're really screwing themselves over. They're torching local businesses, setting fire to cars in their neighbourhood (of which some owners most likely are relatively poor with bad insurance). The only group that's gaining anything from this is the extreme right.
paradise_circus
Member
i was in stockholm this march and the city with his citizens were gorgeous and super cool. the riots are really shocking for me.
If someone ran towards me with a machete and didn't stop when I told him to I would probably have shot him too. I don't really see what that has to do with racism. Do the Swedish police have a history of racism?
Edit: The article said he threatened the police. If he only threatened with words I'd agree shooting him was an overreaction.
Rioting like this is stupid anyways. It'll only give the right wing people another talking point.
Edit: The article said he threatened the police. If he only threatened with words I'd agree shooting him was an overreaction.
Rioting like this is stupid anyways. It'll only give the right wing people another talking point.
It's kinda like the US bombing another country
Liberty4all
Banned
I agree.
FreeMufasa
Junior Member
archnemesis
Member
The image quality is horrible, but here you go.
alexthekid
Member
Is this serious?
Maybe you should look at how many refugees those countries take in per capita? and not just immigrants. They pick and chose whoever they feel that they need, while the nordic immigration is seen as humanitarian aid.
It is on a whole other level in Sweden, just because of the fact that we take refugees on a whole other level. You know that Sweden has two Bandy national teams now? One Swedish and one somalian, some somalian immigrant heavy areas have classes teaching people how to live in an apartment. A woman immigrating with 3 children can get more money from the state state than many graduated civilengineers earn.
I am not against this, but I just cant take the shit talk from people from countries like the US. If you live in the US who cleans your motel room, who works in the corn fields? It is simply not comparable.
That's a fabricated myth, just like every other "truth about immigrants" post that circulates on Facebook
http://www.regeringen.se/sb/d/17468
7. "Nyanlända familjer får mer ekonomiskt bidrag än infödda svenskar"
För många nyanlända invandrare gäller att de ska ha jobb eller annan egen försörjning för att kunna få uppehållstillstånd eller uppehållsrätt i Sverige. Flyktingar och deras anhöriga som inte har jobb kan dock få statlig etableringsersättning under de två första åren i Sverige. Ersättningen ligger på ungefär samma nivå som försörjningsstödet till vilken familj som helst i motsvarande ekonomiska situation. För att få full ersättning krävs deltagande i svenskundervisning, arbetsförberedande insatser och samhällsorientering på heltid.
På nätet cirkulerar påståenden som räknar upp olika förmåner som en nyanländ arbetslös mamma med tre barn kan få. Beräkningen baseras på ett specifikt exempel som har konstruerats enkom för att maximera påstådda bidrag på ett sätt som inte är möjligt i praktiken. Man kan till exempel inte ha föräldrapenning för samma tid som man har etableringsersättning.
(Google translation of the bolded because I'm lazy)
On the net circulating allegations that lists the various benefits that a newly arrived unemployed mother with three children can get. The calculation is based on a specific example which has been designed specifically to maximize the alleged contribution in a way that is not possible in practice. For example you can not have parental benefits for the same time as they have establishment compensation.
Every Swede who has ever heard someone say "Did you know? Immigrants..." should read that page. Too many people talk about immigration under false premises (or straight up lies). Having an educated opinion should be mandatory in such an inflamed debate (obviously talking in general here, not about you specifically).
Which is a great initiative with support from the Somalian government, created largely by one individual to further integration in an area that has a lot of Somalis. If you are critical against the government for failing to integrate immigrants, shouldn't you be applauding this project?
CHEEZMO™;58799933 said:
Every week it seems like there's a new "LOOK HOW THESE IMMIGRANTS GET MORE MONEY THAN US REGULAR NORMAL SWEDES JUST BY CHEWING KAT ON THEIR LUXURY SOFA PROVIDED BY THE GOVERNMENT" post on Facebook. Usually they sprinkle a bit of truth in there to lend it more legitimacy, or base their "example" on some ill-adviced one-off experiment conducted by crazies who since got fired, conveniently forgetting to mention that this had nothing to do with the government or any sort of established practice. Righteous indignation follows.
Hoya Destroyer
Member
Give an inch, take a mile?
You cant save the World, Sweden.
You cant save the World, Sweden.
Aren't they supposed to have guns, water cannons and tear gas for situations like this ? SMH
Another video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aR6kkuj5c00
Ignis Fatuus
Banned
I love how everything is always about US.
Which they aren't allowed to use, of course.
What can one do when many of these rioters are 15-17 years old or younger. Some of them are not even liable for prosecution so it's not like police can do much about the situation.
I don't understand, where are the parents? Immigrants tend to have very close relations inside their communities so it's not like these things will go unnoticed. A total failure. Bad parenting, lack of supervision in schools and the result is that they wreck local businesses, cars that belong to neighbors and so on.
Boom Boom Pow
Banned
wait, is the US responsibe for somalia's current muslim situation?
or a better question: is the US holding guns to Sweden to take in refugees?
Sweden will lose its pure viking blood, and will be more brown in the future? assuming here
Ignis Fatuus
Banned
What do you think will happen exactly?
More segregation and cultural clashes, more violence such as these riots and higher crime rates, more ghettos, and an environment that is more hostile towards women and gays for example. This has been happening in alot of places already. I think the quick growth of culturally differing communities eliminates their need to properly integrate and to be honest, I think every attempt at a multicultural society has failed miserably in Europe and will continue to do so.
Ignis Fatuus
Banned
So why has no one tried adopting the American model of legal immigration?
Now another school is burning. I feel like something bad is going to happen soon if this doesn't end.a 3000 mile wide moat and a randian welfare state?
Ignis Fatuus
Banned
So you're saying the Republicans are right.
Also the moat shouldn't matter as it pertains to legal immigration. As I recall illegal immigration in, say, France is actually very low but they're still having a ton of problems over there.
nelsonroyale
Member
From the little I know about Scandanavian countries attitudes to immigration (mainly Norway), they have quite an open immigration policy, but it can be difficult for immigrants to get work, and Norway in particular is extremely expensive.
Anyway, I am not sure if Sweden is great destination in some ways for refugees from Somalia. There is too much of a latitudinal differences.
Anyway, I am not sure if Sweden is great destination in some ways for refugees from Somalia. There is too much of a latitudinal differences.
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
It is probably the case that those rioting are second generation immigrants.They do not realise the amount of privileges they have. Its always the younger generations that see themselves as part of society enough to get away with whatever they want, but also want to somehow feel part of their parents' culture and use that as an excuse to justify idiotic behaviour.
I sincerely doubt this has anything to do with Islam, but I'm sure you have a very informed opinion and I'd like to hear your argument.
Personally, I still stand by the belief that it was mostly bored criminal people who can't get their shit together who started it up, and I guess some other people joined by now as well.
From what I've heard and seen, it doesn't seem to do with politics or religion, only the opportunist ideologues have seen it that way (both from the left and the far right).
You Are Viewtiful
Member
I was talking about the brutality in the OP.
The Power Of Snap
Member
It's working pretty well here in Montreal.
How is the integration initiatives over there? Part of the problem here in Scandinavia I think is that immigrants aren't really given any reason or incentives to integrate.
You Are Viewtiful
Member
Canada has 165,000 refugees. Don't know how that compares to the Scandinavian countries but I doubt it's that shameful. Compound that with many immigrants, 180,000 family-class immigrants and 300,000 working immigrants a year, and you have one of the most successful immigration policies (although I disagree with bringing in the 300k "workers" in every year, should be replaced by family-class immigrants IMO).
Boom Boom Pow
Banned
I think the biggest between NA countries, and European countries, si that the immigrants wanting to go to Canada or the US actually WANTs to come. As in, they're not really refugees, but they believe in the opportunities both countries can provide to them.
notice this applies to both legal and illegal immigrants.
however, if you're just letting people in because their country is a shithole, what's the incentives for them to succeed? So that juxtaposition makes it harder for them to feel a part of such society.
I remember when I was in Paris. There was this one stop next to to Montmartre. There were literally like 30-40 arabic/northern african male just standing around, doing nothing, just looking at passerbys.
Personally, I didn't care much, but I did hear that area is one of the grungier part of night. So, who knows
you do know the US took in like, what, hundreds of thousands of vietnamese refugees after the vietnam war right? (261k).
The US, alone, has welcomed 3 million refugees since 1975.
Story of Iraqi refugees and their integration into San diego
http://www.theworld.org/2013/03/iraqi-refugees-in-the-us-reflect-on-wars-anniversary/
notice this applies to both legal and illegal immigrants.
however, if you're just letting people in because their country is a shithole, what's the incentives for them to succeed? So that juxtaposition makes it harder for them to feel a part of such society.
I remember when I was in Paris. There was this one stop next to to Montmartre. There were literally like 30-40 arabic/northern african male just standing around, doing nothing, just looking at passerbys.
Personally, I didn't care much, but I did hear that area is one of the grungier part of night. So, who knows
you do know the US took in like, what, hundreds of thousands of vietnamese refugees after the vietnam war right? (261k).
The US, alone, has welcomed 3 million refugees since 1975.
Story of Iraqi refugees and their integration into San diego
http://www.theworld.org/2013/03/iraqi-refugees-in-the-us-reflect-on-wars-anniversary/
The image quality is horrible, but here you go.
well he has good tastes in rice
Ignis Fatuus
Banned
It seems to work fine in the various former colonies.
I don't know if we have any integration initiatives in the US per say. I mean there's some emphasis on language education but given long enough integration just seems to happen.
The Power Of Snap
Member
Well, their children need to go to french schools. That's pretty much it.
You can live in mtl speaking only English but everything is written in french, yet, the public services are bilingual... There's a huge diversity and people accepted it.
There's no ghettos here. Every neighborhood is mixed so it's hard for a racist to live there. I guess the immigrants are just willing to integrate? I need to ask my friends on that one.
ps: You know what's funny? Sweden was the role model of Quebec in the 60's, 70's for his huge projects and laws. Hell, it's still often cited lol
Boom Boom Pow
Banned
i do'nt thikn ghettos mean for racist people. ghetto tends to imply low-income, high poverty, high crime areas.
I like montreal though. awesome city. i would say the eastern edge of it is a little dodgy though.
Ignis Fatuus
Banned
I think in Europe when they say ghettos in this context they mean large impoverished areas with homogenous populations. We don't really have those here, at least not with immigrants.
I think there is many factors that makes integration harder here in Norway. There's really not that much focus on language education for newly arrived immigrants and all the jobs are usually centered around the larger cities so most thend to move there. On top of that I think you Canadians probably are a little more open to strangers than us Norwegians.
archnemesis
Member
That might be part of the issue. Last year about 100,000 immigrants entered Sweden and only 24% did it for work reasons or studies.
Translation:
Invandrare - immigrants
Utvandrare - emigrants
Antal per år - number per year
Sources:
http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sveriges_invandringspolitik
http://www.scb.se/Pages/Article____352486.aspx
Yeah clearly the immigration problem is with those who are skilled educated productive members of society...
childplease
Banned
Mass deportations.
Problem solved.
Problem solved.
Maybe if they screened applicants and accepted well educated immigrants who could hold down decent jobs (maybe even in areas where they filled a need in the economy) instead of living on welfare, and didn't hate western civilization or have problems integrating into their new society because of their existing cultural / religious beliefs... nah why be practical just be naive idealists and take in random refugees from wherever.
archnemesis
Member
You can't deport second or third generation immigrants. Once they become citizens they are every bit as much Swedish as the rest of us.
"At least two schools, a police station, and 15 cars were set ablaze in Stockholm on Thursday night as riots in the suburbs of the Swedish capital continued for the fifth straight night."
http://www.thelocal.se/48100/20130524/
Boom Boom Pow
Banned
these are 2nd generations though, not 1st. they wouldn't even be screened as they immigrated over here when they were kids and what not. or not even born yet
They are born into families that rely on welfare, their parents aren't skilled workers even if they do work so they have little mobility to get out of ghetto areas, education is probably not highly valued in their families or communities, they are probably still quite religious in a society that isn't very religious, culturally conservative in a society that is socially liberal, neither they or their parents are all that interested in integration into their new society... With first generation immigrants like that, how much does being second generation change?
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