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[SRG01]

As an educator at the college level, I'd like to offer my insight:

- As much as we're emphasizing engaging and enlightening learning exercises, much of university (in the sciences) does emphasize rote learning and hard math.

- As much as university/college is moving towards a new curriculum model aimed towards the new generation of learners, much of the material they encounter will still be hard math.

- Many schools, both at the high school and university/college level, are de-emphasizing math partially because many educators feel that time is better spent doing something else, and partially because it helps retention (ie. kids can't do math).

So, in my viewpoint, it's nice to think of engaging and helpful exercises, but many schools are in for a rude wake-up call when they realize that their students can't do basic algebra. Or multiplication.

That's not to say that weeder classes are good; they are perhaps the worst kind of classes ever to exist at the college/university level. First and second year classes should be scaffolding knowledge so that the students aren't SOL when they reach their third or fourth level classes. Synthesis-level questions should be kept at a minimum, until specialized courses later on.

Oh I totally agree, but part of the problem for me is that half-assed papers can get As. I remember one last semester that I got back with a 93% and I literally wanted to say to the professor "but almost a third of the essay had only weak ties to my thesis, and a whole paragraph was clearly filler. Why did you grade me so high?"

I think it's due to third and fourth year classes of any degree giving out higher grades.

 

[Atenhaus]

What's worse is how few people are even entering these programs versus the past.


I graduated with a CompSci degree a little over a decade ago. Pretty large number of students in the program ... 6 or so professors and a handful of adjuncts.


Fast forward to now ... this is the last year for the program. They're actually removing the major due to lack of interest. There's only a couple of people even in the program getting their degree :\







A side-note given some of the discussion here, I had an interesting trip getting to computer science. I started out as a Psychology major with some art and music classes to fill in electives, etc. Ended up graduating with honors majoring in CSci, with a minor in fine arts (combination of music and art - both history and studio work for each).

In the end, I was only 1 class shy of having a math minor, and probably a semester away from a studio art major lol.

Jesus, that's incredibly sad. :/ My university just expended their CS department.

 

[irishcow]

I think it's due to third and fourth year classes of any degree giving out higher grades.

I've never heard of this before.

The engineering classes I had in 3rd and 4th years were the hardest I've ever had. Pass rates were around 50%.

 

[teh_pwn]

ivysaur, if it's any consolation, I'd take conversation with a person who received a 3.7 in your line of studies over a person who received a 3.9 in engineering any day of the week. I find engineers to have a strange propensity towards being boorish and generally uninformed about anything outside of their area of study and work.

I think good scientists can grasp finance (because of math, understanding data, big picture non emotional approach) and take rational, non-polarizing positions in politics (because their skill at always questioning and avoiding bias).

Jesus, that's incredibly sad. :/ My university just expended their CS department.

I don't get this. Software is in demand. Median starting salaries are up there with engineering now. As a skill/job, it will be useful for a long time. When Moore's law dies, there will still be plenty of software to write.

 

[SRG01]

I've never heard of this before.

The engineering classes I had in 3rd and 4th years were the hardest I've ever had. Pass rates were around 50%.

If you're in a curved school, try to get the recommended grade list from your school. The class average raises every year after first year.

Don't get me wrong; third year is perhaps the hardest year of all the years, but the class average they aim for is B+. Fourth year courses (especially in engineering) are usually a joke, especially the ones that are introductions to a higher-level topic.

 

[Kusagari]

As a Journalism major, I laugh at the people who think all liberal arts majors are easy. The Reporting class at my college is considered the second hardest in the entire school besides Chemical Engineering. You're lucky to not get a negative 50 on your first couple papers.

 

[Kapura]

As a Journalism major, I laugh at the people who think all liberal arts majors are easy. The Reporting class at my college is considered the second hardest in the entire school besides Chemical Engineering. You're lucky to not get a negative 50 on your first couple papers.

2nd hardest behind a real science
seems like STEM still harder.

 

[Kisaya]

@_@ I'm aiming towards a Visual Arts Management degree (Advertising at the moment ;/ ) and my first Art History course is really hard... but what's funny is that I'm doing best in my Biology class lol. Does that mean Biology is easier? No, I don't think it's fair for me to say that. But it also doesn't mean that Art History is a harder than Biology.
I really think it depends on the school you go to + how well you can understand the topic + your attitude. I always hear mixed things about science majors from friends and usually they find it either really easy or really hard. What I hate is that most people who take science degrees don't really want to pursue it, but are pressured to because it's believed to give you the best job opportunities. Just learn whatever you want to learn mang~

no matter what you're doing, don't let the venom filled words of others ever deter you. seriously. big respect to all people of all educational backgrounds who decided they wanted to better themselves and do something. whether they love it in itself, or for whatever reason, it's cool.

It sucks to see such self aggrandizing in these types of topics, it's pathetic, respect all people who want to educate themselves. That type of "herp drawing is easy" or "stem dudes r dumm" is so fucking pathetic and self affirming, just be respectful man.

I respect this post a lot and totally agree.

 

[ultim8p00]

I was a double major in chemistry and biology and am currently in my third year of pharmacy school. I can testify that what they are saying is absolutely true. I think the idea of the freshmen level science courses was to weed out the people who couldn't hack it early on, so they made the workload needlessly difficult. I managed to get through it, but it took a lot of self-sacrifice. I still have friends who just think I turned into an asshole because they don't realize just how much of my time was (and still is) spent studying. I could really understand why people wouldn't want to stick with that.

The chemistry department in my school was pretty small, but I still saw a lot of people leave the program. I feel like we had at least thirty people in general chemistry, then maybe fifteen in organic. By the time we got to physical chemistry and inorganic the class sizes were all single digit.

I'm in the same situation, except I'm a second year student. I've lost and/or strained a significant amount of relationships due to the amount of work I had to put in. Some of my professors even admitted to this being a design philosophy of theirs, although this had more to do with my choice of professors than anything. They made their exams EXTREMELY difficult. I remember starting OChem II with 50 or so people in it. By the time finals rolled around, only 8 of us where left.

 

[Tornado Condor]

it turns out that degrees in real things are difficult, while degrees in being a baby are easy.

Haha, oh man. I laughed hard.

 

[Al-ibn Kermit]

No, I'm trying to be a television writer. So I'm using my major. There were also plenty of highly intelligent people within my majors. There are plenty of stupid STEM majors, like the majority of people in my fraternity.

Still, the idea that liberal arts majors are, by nature, less intelligent than science majors is a legitimate stereotype.

Sorry I got you confused with the member named ivedoneyourmom, I turn off avatars so it's hard to remember some people.

But yes people who want to use the education they got and actually enjoy what they studied are always the ones who do the best and work the hardest.

Research suggests that "Can't Cut It" is not the reason students leave STEM majors.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0813389267/?tag=neogaf0e-20

The researchers found no statistically significant difference in the academic performance of those who chose to stay and those who chose to leave. However, the amount of work (not difficulty of the work) was often cited as a reason for leaving, as was the competitive atmosphere of the fields.

A lot of the jobs in these STEM fields do have huge workloads and insanely competitive atmospheres. You just have to recognize and accept the challenge if that's what you want to do for the rest of your life. I felt that other than a few random chapters, most of the content I learned in my lower division classes was actually relevant and useful, if a bit general (ie: a person who wants to go into biology doesn't need that strong of a background in vector calculus).

Right now I'm taking the first course in my biochemistry series (an upper-division series) and it's being taught by a 70 year old genius who recently missed out on a Nobel prize and now my class is his final term before he retires and he's just throwing the kitchen sink at us (if he fails half the class nobody can punish him), this is the first time that I'm actually worried about how much I have to learn in a single class.

 

[jaxword]

I'm a bio-sci major with goals of going to med school but now I want to kill myself.

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

I'm a bio-sci major with goals of going to med school but now I want to kill myself.

If you are actually serious about suicide, please go get help right now. That is not a joke.

 

[BoobPhysics101]

If you are actually serious about suicide, please go get help right now. That is not a joke.

Yeah man, he's totally serious! GO STOP HIM

Spoiler

He's joking. Kind of. LOL @ Bio majors of any kind, they're lunatics that should be locked up because they have robot brains.

 

[jaxword]

If you are actually serious about suicide, please go get help right now. That is not a joke.

I thank you for your concern, but I was exaggerating to illustrate how overworked biology majors are and it's only second year and I pretty much live on coffee and 4 hours of sleep a night.

 

[nitewulf]

I see your points. Many math whizzes do end up in Wall Street working as Quants,, but I do see what you mean. That's not a career track from everyone.

Even aspiring MD's don't necessarily have to be math or science majors, only fullfil the pre-requisites.

he mentioned math undergrads though. to be a quant, you'd need at least a masters in financial engineering or operations research from a good school.

 

[Warrior_Keoni]

So having gone from a bio major to a criminal justice major and graduated this past May...I'm in grad school doing Cybersecurity and Information Assurance (I want to get into digital forensics as I love investigation generally)...

Would I be classified as a STEM...drop-in?

 

[TUSR]

So Mr. Moniz, a 21-year-old who likes poetry and had enjoyed introductory psychology, switched to a double major in psychology and English, where the classes are “a lot more discussion based.” He will graduate in May and plans to be a clinical psychologist. Of his four freshman buddies at Notre Dame, one switched to business, another to music. One of the two who is still in engineering plans to work in finance after graduation.

Good luck haha.

 

[Zzoram]

Good luck haha.

Did no one tell him that to become a clinical psychologist you need a PhD that you can only get into with extreme research productivity?

 

[TUSR]

Did no one tell him that to become a clinical psychologist you need a PhD that you can only get into with extreme research productivity?

I find it hard to believe this guy was in Engineering and doesn't have a fucking clue.

 

[Zoe]

Currently a math major because my school's comp sci department got deactivated, but I'm basically an undeclared CS double major. I suck at Calc II but don't study enough, admittedly. Probably going to transfer and do straight CS, mostly because I'm not even sure about a straight math degree and job prospects.

Any opinions? Should I continue what I'm doing or just go straight CS? Or transfer and do Math and CS elsewhere?

Does your school offer engineering? That's much closer to a CS degree than a math one would be.

 

[Zapages]

Sorry to bump this thread... I have some good news and I need some advice.

I have my first ever interview this coming Friday. They are sending some papers to look over their new drug that is up for FDA approval and has passed phase III trials.

Any suggestions guys? attire - professional (suit) of course, I am already doing research on their drug that they are going to send me papers about.

They have already told me that the interview will be approximately 1.5 hours and then they will give me a tour of the facility.

What type of questions do they ask at a pharmaceutical company? What type of questions should I ask? How in depth should I study the articles?

Wish me luck and pray for me!!!

 

[Vicetrailia]

Stem fields are good for the passionate. I finished masters in industrial engineering without passion and now I do marketing, I'm passionate with that. The more you know...about you the better.

Hard is one thing, but a lot of people don't develop the passion to stick with it...that's why it's hard.

 

[Al-ibn Kermit]

Sorry to bump this thread... I have some good news and I need some advice.

I have my first ever interview this coming Friday. They are sending some papers to look over their new drug that is up for FDA approval and has passed phase III trials.

Any suggestions guys? attire - professional (suit) of course, I am already doing research on their drug that they are going to send me papers about.

They have already told me that the interview will be approximately 1.5 hours and then they will give me a tour of the facility.

What type of questions do they ask at a pharmaceutical company? What type of questions should I ask? How in depth should I study the articles?

Wish me luck and pray for me!!!

I don't have any advice to give but you'll probably be more likely to get a response from somebody in a research lab if you ask in either of these threads:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=415672&page=4

http://neogaf.net/forum/showthread.php?t=461421

 

[LightOfTruth]

Well, Bio-engineering is killing me. I basically have no life.

Won't switch though, cause I also hate not being challenged.