Support NeoGAF

[ivysaur12]

IIRC, aren't you getting your PhD in Anthropology right now? It's fair to say that you are probably more competitive and passionate about the material you studied than most of the other people who were English/Poli Sci majors.

This article is talking about the average STEM major vs the average liberal arts major, a lot of people went into my early chemistry and biology classes with dreams of becoming a highly paid doctor or engineer. The majority will wash out, I've seen it and everybody else that's gotten up to the upper division classes has seen it, you just get used to class sizes becoming 30%-50% smaller by the end of the quarter.

The problem here is that either the liberal arts classes are too easy to coast by with a passing grade or that high school does not prepare students for understanding how to study science. I think it's little of both.

No, I'm trying to be a television writer. So I'm using my major. There were also plenty of highly intelligent people within my majors. There are plenty of stupid STEM majors, like the majority of people in my fraternity.

Still, the idea that liberal arts majors are, by nature, less intelligent than science majors is a legitimate stereotype.

 

[CornBurrito]

The Neuro and Bio likely mean that what you're talking about fits in the Neuroscience category, which is basically Biology of the brain.

But now aren't you doing this?

"Oh that doesn't count as psychology anymore. It is just biology."

 

[Suite Pee]

Math/Computer Science to Psychology/Sociology here. I'm going to give the hard sciences another shot before I get into grad school, but I find much more enjoyment in my current studies. I guess I'm fairly intelligent (valedictorian of a smaller school).

Edit: I can imagine one of the factors in my decision to switch was the grades. My scholarship was reliant on my GPA, and at the time my parents weren't doing so well financially.

 

[tokkun]

The problem here is that either the liberal arts classes are too easy to coast by with a passing grade or that high school does not prepare students for understanding how to study science. I think it's little of both.

Research suggests that "Can't Cut It" is not the reason students leave STEM majors.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0813389267/?tag=neogaf0e-20

The researchers found no statistically significant difference in the academic performance of those who chose to stay and those who chose to leave. However, the amount of work (not difficulty of the work) was often cited as a reason for leaving, as was the competitive atmosphere of the fields.

 

[Lonely1]

Don't know what to tell you, but that was my experience.

Ah ok, I'm talking about the classes when most people are dropping; years 1-3.

Well, must be then because the difference systems we experience. Where I studied, Mathematics students (there's no minor and mayors here) are introduced on the first semester with a course called Modern Geometry, which reduces to select themes in geometry, whatever the professor seems adequate. I had a course in Projective Geometry and Non euclidean Geometry. The objective of this course seems to be to "Welcome" the wanna be mathematicians by showing them that they don't know shit at math and they most acquire a certain level of abstraction and logical reasoning if they want to to continue on the field. Memorization alone won't help us there.

That's added to the course in Calculus that serve as a filter for the other fields given at the faculty.

 

[zoku88]

There are many reasons, but here are what I would consider to be the top 3:

1. US students have better opportunities to make a good living with a Bachelor's degree in their own country than do students from Asia. Getting an MS/PhD in a STEM field is also a much easier (though not necessarily easy) path to living in the US via an H1B VISA.

I see this a lot. Almost everyone at the place where I work that is from outside of the US has a Masters (well, in my group, I'm actually the only one with a Bachelors....haha)

 

[Kapura]

it turns out that degrees in real things are difficult, while degrees in being a baby are easy.

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

But now aren't you doing this?

http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l354e6B52B1qa0uujo1_500.png[img]

"Oh that doesn't count as psychology anymore. It is just biology."[/QUOTE]That comic sort of works here though.

 

[Fugu]

I'm considering doing the opposite of the trend suggested by the OP. I'm almost finished a B.Mus degree and I'm covering off some math prerequisites so that I can start a B.Sc.

 

[ivysaur12]

it turns out that degrees in real things are difficult, while degrees in being a baby are easy.

Fuck you. Seriously. This is exactly what I'm talking about when it comes to the bullshit hubris of STEM majors. You're not being cute.

 

[CornBurrito]

Fuck you. Seriously. This is exactly what I'm talking about when it comes to the bullshit hubris of STEM majors. You're not being cute.

Everyone should either be an engineer, or hurl themselves off a cliff.

 

[Vaporak]

I worked my ass off in college. 6-8 hours a day in the library, 6 days a week. I graduated with a 3.89, double majored in English and Poli Sci, magna cum laude, honors for my English thesis, Phi Beta Kappa. Please excuse me for getting pissed off when I see shit like this posted:



I don't have a science-based mind. I still took science courses and did well in them, it's just not my thing. I know people who are engineers who did poorly in even the easiest of liberal arts classes. Not being a science major should in no way diminish the amount that I worked. Yet for a lot of people who are science majors, it does. And that's really fucking annoying.

The stereotype that liberal arts majors don't work and that science majors are really the only people who are doing something with their education is insanely frustrating, especially for people who worked hard in those respective majors.

STEM majors also look down on arts majors for arguing exactly like you are here. You're presented evidence in the OP that STEM majors have lower GPA's and the highest failure rates compared to non STEM majors; and your argument against that is that you personally had to work hard in your non STEM major.

 

[ivysaur12]

STEM majors also look down on arts majors for arguing exactly like you are here. You're presented evidence in the OP that STEM majors have lower GPA's and the highest failure rates compared to non STEM majors; and your argument against that is that you personally had to work hard in your non STEM major.

What do you want me to say? I'm sorry that I worked hard, I must be doing something wrong because I wasn't a STEM major? No, you're guys are right, no matter how much hard work I did, you guys DEFINITELY worked harder. Because that's always true.

"Wait, you're right. Your major IS harder! No matter how hard I worked in college, it should be invalidated because I wasn't a STEM major! Even though I'm predisposed to have a more creative mind, it doesn't mean anything because I didn't man up and do a science major!"

Is that what you were hoping to hear? I'm not arguing that some liberal arts major don't "coast" though college. But the idea that you guys are inherently smarter or that I had, as another poster put it, a "baby major"?

No.

I'm not going to diminish the work that I did in college because of my major has a higher average GPA. Is it because there are less students with Fs and Cs reign as the "bottom"? I don't know. Is it because many students go into college wanting to get a degree that will lead them to a high-paying job out of school and then switch because it's not for them? I don't know. Is it the perceived higher workload? I don't know.

Do you want me to admit, on average, that science majors are smarter and work harder? I'm tempted not to do that because of my own experiences. I can't say that with a good conscience knowing how hard I worked for what I accomplished.

 

[beast786]

Went from Engineering to Medicine/Dental.

 

[Kapura]

Fuck you. Seriously. This is exactly what I'm talking about when it comes to the bullshit hubris of STEM majors. You're not being cute.

hey, it's alright. I understand that math is hard, but drawing is easy. There's no need to feel ashamed, you're just less of a man for not being able to learn how to do something useful with your life.

 

[CornBurrito]

hey, it's alright. I understand that math is hard, but drawing is easy. There's no need to feel ashamed, you're just less of a man for not being able to learn how to do something useful with your life.

This is actually kind of funny. I'm sure you could easily easily replicate the Sistine Chapel, or perform your own symphony.

 

[MWS Natural]

Comp Sci dropout here, got to Computer Theory and flamed out. Even though I didn't finish I would up with a good job in the IT field though.

 

[Kapura]

This is actually kind of funny. I'm sure you could easily easily replicate the Sistine Chapel, or perform your own symphony.

hey my trolling doesn't work as well when you point out obvious flaws in it.

also the sistine chapel was built with engineering (stEm). Painted with it; perhaps less so.

real talk though: people who did that baller-ass art stuff didn't get art degrees. they didn't need to. they just balled out of control like it was easy. mad props.

less respekt for people who say they're gonna major in biochem, but then discover that it's hard and switch to studio art. no props.

 

[ivysaur12]

hey, it's alright. I understand that math is hard, but drawing is easy. There's no need to feel ashamed, you're just less of a man for not being able to learn how to do something useful with your life.

Trolling is fun.

hey my trolling doesn't work as well when you point out obvious flaws in it.

also the sistine chapel was built with engineering (stEm). Painted with it; perhaps less so.

real talk though: people who did that baller-ass art stuff didn't get art degrees. they didn't need to. they just balled out of control like it was easy. mad props.

less respekt for people who say they're gonna major in biochem, but then discover that it's hard and switch to studio art. no props.

Did they want to do BioChem in the first place, though? We put such an emphasis on careers and jobs that it could deter people from taking majors of something they want to study. What if they just didn't like BioChem? I'm sure there are some people that take up a liberal arts major for the reason you said, but there are also people who just don't like BioChemistry and don't want to major in it.

 

[Kapura]

Trolling is fun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTFflehHtvI#t=20s

 

[ivysaur12]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTFflehHtvI#t=20s

Let me know when you want to have an actual discussion.

 

[Kapura]

Let me know when you want to have an actual discussion.

I think I've made my position clear. I don't intend to waver on it (just like I'm not wavering on my choice of major).

 

[ivysaur12]

I think I've made my position clear. I don't intend to waver on it (just like I'm not wavering on my choice of major).

Glad to see it's helping your basic communication skills.

 

[Kapura]

Glad to see it's helping your basic communication skills.

whatever dawg i didn't even have to take english 101. shit was cash. this quarter i'm taking three science courses and a calculus. guess how much writing I have to do (hint: it's naught).

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

What do you want me to say? I'm sorry that I worked hard, I must be doing something wrong because I wasn't a STEM major? No, you're guys are right, no matter how much hard work I did, you guys DEFINITELY worked harder. Because that's always true.

"Wait, you're right. Your major IS harder! No matter how hard I worked in college, it should be invalidated because I wasn't a STEM major! Even though I'm predisposed to have a more creative mind, it doesn't mean anything because I didn't man up and do a science major!"

Is that what you were hoping to hear? I'm not arguing that some liberal arts major don't "coast" though college. But the idea that you guys are inherently smarter or that I had, as another poster put it, a "baby major"?

No.

I'm not going to diminish the work that I did in college because of my major has a higher average GPA. Is it because there are less students with Fs and Cs reign as the "bottom"? I don't know. Is it because many students go into college wanting to get a degree that will lead them to a high-paying job out of school and then switch because it's not for them? I don't know. Is it the perceived higher workload? I don't know.

Do you want me to admit, on average, that science majors are smarter and work harder? I'm tempted not to do that because of my own experiences. I can't say that with a good conscience knowing how hard I worked for what I accomplished.

Obviously this has struck a nerve for you here. No one is saying they are smarter than you. What people have been saying in this thread is that STEM majors are generally more rigorous and difficult than non-STEM majors. It's nothing to be threatened over.

Also, that is not to say that composing a masterwork or writing a classic are easy things to do. They're not. It's just (and this is with my limited experience in college) that more social science or liberal arts type courses tend to be very subjective with their grading, because of the material itself. This can be good or bad, but there's always the added incentive of being able to argue for your grade. I can't do that in my biophysics or calc courses; if you're wrong you're wrong.

 

[ivysaur12]

Obviously this has struck a nerve for you here. No one is saying they are smarter than you. What people have been saying in this thread is that STEM majors are generally more rigorous and difficult than non-STEM majors. It's nothing to be threatened over.

But see, I take issue with that as well. I had a fucking ridiculous workload for my non-STEM majors. The students in my major who worked at the same level as myself all spent hours in the library working. From my personal experience, it's hard for me to subscribe to that hypothesis.

Would I take Organic Chemistry and do well? I have no idea. I'm not a science-minded person and I would probably have to work my ass off. But what would happen if you took a random STEM major and put them in a difficult English seminar, where you're reading some obscure British poet and author from an obscure time period in history every week and writing 10-20 page essays on said author? I don't know.

It's an inherently different type of discipline because of how grades are given in both. One is more subjective, which is both good and bad, I suppose. But I think you have to understand why non-STEM majors who do well get peeved by the consensus that "we work harder," "or major is just harder" or "well, your GPA would be .5 lower if you had my major." Not only does that not necessarily make sense (why would success or failure in a liberal arts major predict how one would do in a science major?) but it's a little insulting to liberal arts majors who work hard. Because we do. And it's not necessarily fair, in one fell swoop, to suggest that all STEM curricula are more demanding.

 

[Byakuya769]

What do you want me to say? I'm sorry that I worked hard, I must be doing something wrong because I wasn't a STEM major? No, you're guys are right, no matter how much hard work I did, you guys DEFINITELY worked harder. Because that's always true.

"Wait, you're right. Your major IS harder! No matter how hard I worked in college, it should be invalidated because I wasn't a STEM major! Even though I'm predisposed to have a more creative mind, it doesn't mean anything because I didn't man up and do a science major!"

Is that what you were hoping to hear? I'm not arguing that some liberal arts major don't "coast" though college. But the idea that you guys are inherently smarter or that I had, as another poster put it, a "baby major"?

No.

I'm not going to diminish the work that I did in college because of my major has a higher average GPA. Is it because there are less students with Fs and Cs reign as the "bottom"? I don't know. Is it because many students go into college wanting to get a degree that will lead them to a high-paying job out of school and then switch because it's not for them? I don't know. Is it the perceived higher workload? I don't know.

Do you want me to admit, on average, that science majors are smarter and work harder? I'm tempted not to do that because of my own experiences. I can't say that with a good conscience knowing how hard I worked for what I accomplished.

Hey man, I know there are a few people who are being asses about this discussion. However, in my experience, as someone who has been pre-med, got a masters in business, and now studies law I think I have a broad range of experiences to draw from.

In my own experiences I can say this.

1. I know for a fact that I am more intelligent than friends and acquaintances that I know who are currently in med school, and doing well.

2. I also know that in my undergraduate years, in general, my classmates seemed more intelligent in my science courses than my liberal arts courses (upper level included)

3. Students in my masters program who only did business had a very inflated opinion on the difficulty of their subjects (especially accounting majors, ugh). Some were studying hours a day, while I was cramming for a few hours only before each exam, volunteering, and trying to prepare for my first child. My lack luster effort (and lack of undergraduate studies in the field) still got me in the top of the class. There's no way I could have just showed up in any science/math course like that.

So no, not every STEM student is more intelligent than every liberal arts student, nor does taking one field (or even excelling/failing in one) strictly describe your abilities, but I'm pretty comfortable in saying that on average, it takes much more effort to excel in STEM than in liberal arts.

 

[Zzoram]

But now aren't you doing this?

"Oh that doesn't count as psychology anymore. It is just biology."

That is kinda true though.

 

[Kapura]

But see, I take issue with that as well. I had a fucking ridiculous workload for my non-STEM majors. The students in my major who worked at the same level as myself all spent hours in the library working. From my personal experience, it's hard for me to subscribe to that hypothesis.

Would I take Organic Chemistry and do well? I have no idea. I'm not a science-minded person and I would probably have to work my ass off. But what would happen if you took a random STEM major and put them in a difficult English seminar, where you're reading some obscure British poet and author from an obscure time period in history every week and writing 10-20 page essays on said author? I don't know.

It's an inherently different type of discipline because of how grades are given in both. One is more subjective, which is both good and bad, I suppose. But I think you have to understand why non-STEM majors who do well get peeved by the consensus that "we work harder," "or major is just harder" or "well, your GPA would be .5 lower if you had my major." Not only does that not necessarily make sense (why would success or failure in a liberal arts major predict how one would do in a science major?) but it's a little insulting to liberal arts majors who work hard. Because we do. And it's not necessarily fair, in one fell swoop, to suggest that all STEM curriculums are more demanding.

thug i'm pretty clearly not talking about you if you actually had to try. I know people who took a semester of 100 level chem courses, couldn't keep up, and dropped the major for something like women's studies just to get a degree. You think that helps America? you bet your ass it doesn't.

 

[Codeblue]

But now aren't you doing this?

[mg]http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l354e6B52B1qa0uujo1_500.png[/img]

"Oh that doesn't count as psychology anymore. It is just biology."

This is sorta correct. The chemists at my school didn't look down on on bio, nursing, English, art, safety and everything else because it was based on chemistry, we laughed at them because thats where the chemists who couldn't cut it went, and as a result it was percieved as easier. The only people we didn't have a superiority complex about were math, finance, and accounting since the transfers between those groups were low. The complex was unwarranted though, because I knew toddlers more capable than my classmates.

I will say that looking down on that schools nursing program was totally warranted. I have no idea how they let those people anywhere near hospitals. That's school only though, nothing against nurses.

Anyway, we go into STEM for prestige, and the only way to keep that is by perpetuating the stereotype that we are smarter. So please, understand that our Egos are all we have since B.S. degrees are useless until we get into med school.

 

[CornBurrito]

That is kinda true though.

Not my point.

You said bio/neuropsychology isn't psychology, but biology. So do you also argue that biology is really just chemistry which is just physics which is just mathematics?

 

[ivysaur12]

Hey man, I know there are a few people who are being asses about this discussion. However, in my experience, as someone who has been pre-med, got a masters in business, and now studies law I think I have a broad range of experiences to draw from.

In my own experiences I can say this.

1. I know for a fact that I am more intelligent than friends and acquaintances that I know who are currently in med school, and doing well.

2. I also know that in my undergraduate years, in general, my classmates seemed more intelligent in my science courses than my liberal arts courses (upper level included)

3. Students in my masters program who only did business had a very inflated opinion on the difficulty of their subjects (especially accounting majors, ugh). Some were studying hours a day, while I was cramming for a few hours only before each exam, volunteering, and trying to prepare for my first child. My lack luster effort (and lack of undergraduate studies in the field) still got me in the top of the class. There's no way I could have just showed up in any science/math course like that.

So no, not every STEM student is more intelligent than every liberal arts student, nor does taking one field (or even excelling/failing in one) strictly describe your abilities, but I'm pretty comfortable in saying that on average, it takes much more effort to excel in STEM than in liberal arts.

I legitimately can't subscribe to that theory, though. I went to school with some brilliant students who were majors outside of the STEM field and worked incredibly hard to achieve their level of success. I also was friends with some extremely stupid STEM majors. It's just hard for me to make a statement like "excelling in STEM is harder than liberal arts majors" because I wasn't a STEM major and I had to work extremely hard to do well in a liberal arts education. I only took two science classes and one math class my entire time at college - I did well in all three, but they were all intro-level classes.

Maybe I didn't have to work hard to get the grades that I did, but I take issue with the notion that STEM majors are superior students due to their major. Which is an attitude held by some STEM majors... even some in this thread. For the students in my major who were "A" students, we had to work really fucking hard to get those grades. Because it's a fundamentally different type of studying and grading than STEM majors, I have no idea how that compares. But succeeding did require an enormous amount of effort.

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

But see, I take issue with that as well. I had a fucking ridiculous workload for my non-STEM majors. The students in my major who worked at the same level as myself all spent hours in the library working. From my personal experience, it's hard for me to subscribe to that hypothesis.

Would I take Organic Chemistry and do well? I have no idea. I'm not a science-minded person and I would probably have to work my ass off. But what would happen if you took a random STEM major and put them in a difficult English seminar, where you're reading some obscure British poet and author from an obscure time period in history every week and writing 10-20 page essays on said author? I don't know.

It's an inherently different type of discipline because of how grades are given in both. One is more subjective, which is both good and bad, I suppose. But I think you have to understand why non-STEM majors who do well get peeved by the consensus that "we work harder," "or major is just harder" or "well, your GPA would be .5 lower if you had my major." Not only does that not necessarily make sense (why would success or failure in a liberal arts major predict how one would do in a science major?) but it's a little insulting to liberal arts majors who work hard. Because we do. And it's not necessarily fair, in one fell swoop, to suggest that all STEM curricula are more demanding.

I took "non-STEM" classes for a year and a half straight in my senior year of high school as well as my freshman year in college (I went to college my senior year). So I am just going off of my experience in those introductory classes compared to my introductory science courses.

Again, the subjective nature of the classes you describe makes them a bit more lenient in terms of understanding the material imo. This is not the case in physics, for instance. In my class if you fucked up at the start of one of your two exam problems, and proceeded to do everything right, you got ZERO points. No sympathy.

Congrats on working hard. I don't care. I am not saying you don't work hard. What I am saying is that STEM courses are more rigorous than non-STEM courses. Again, I am not saying they aren't difficult. I am big into music and high level jazz courses would probably kick my ass right now. But, from my personal experiences, the sciences have been more difficult.

So yeah I don't know where to go with this. I think science courses are generally more difficult than non-science courses, you don't. That's cool I guess. Just don't take it personal.

 

[Zzoram]

Not my point.

You said bio/neuropsychology isn't psychology, but biology. So do you also argue that biology is really just chemistry which is just physics which is just mathematics?

You have to draw the line somewhere. Neuroscience is more closely related to what one would think of as Biology than Psychology.

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

Not my point.

You said bio/neuropsychology isn't psychology, but biology. So do you also argue that biology is really just chemistry which is just physics which is just mathematics?

I work in a neuroscience lab and we sometimes do behavioral experiments, but I would consider the environment in which we do these things to be more bio than psych. It's really subjective of course, and cross disciplinary areas like this are hard to classify(subjective).

 

[dvolovets]

Obviously this has struck a nerve for you here. No one is saying they are smarter than you. What people have been saying in this thread is that STEM majors are generally more rigorous and difficult than non-STEM majors. It's nothing to be threatened over.

Also, that is not to say that composing a masterwork or writing a classic are easy things to do. They're not. It's just (and this is with my limited experience in college) that more social science or liberal arts type courses tend to be very subjective with their grading, because of the material itself. This can be good or bad, but there's always the added incentive of being able to argue for your grade. I can't do that in my biophysics or calc courses; if you're wrong you're wrong.

Right on. Speaking from personal experience, I have aced every single liberal arts course I've taken in college so far -- philosophy, upper-level English, theology, etc. As a neuroscience major, I cannot even begin to relate how much easier these classes are than biology, chemistry, math, physics, etc. In saying this, I do not intend to devalue the work put into by folks who choose to get a liberal arts degree. I agree that STEM majors are much more difficult and time-consuming than other majors, though. Sure, you'll sometimes see people who excel in science but can't compose a coherent paragraph, but I don't think it's hard to see why the sciences are considered to be more difficult than liberal arts fields.

Edit - For what it's worth, I have also been playing classical, flamenco, Brazilian, and jazz guitar professionally for over 12 years, so I know full well the difficulty associated with non-science fields.

 

[opticalmace]

Do we have any statistics available?

Perhaps the typical number of hours studied, broken down by major? I know there are stats out there for average GPA by major. Of course, all of this depends on the aptitude of the student and the structure of the programs, but it might be interesting to know.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

We need better STEM field preparation, K-12 across the nation.

It's not even a debate. Especially in urban areas. Especially for women.

 

[dvolovets]

We need better STEM field preparation, K-12 across the nation.

It's not even a debate. Especially in urban areas. Especially for women.

While I agree with this generally, it's interesting to note that pre-meds have the best high school preparation (according to the article in the OP).

 

[Dennis]

Instead of 'Purity' it could as well say 'Difficulty'.

Having studied mathematics, physics, chemistry and biology (molecular biology actually) at the university level, for me that chart represents the level of effort that had to be applied to really learn any of these subjects.

 

[Alpha-Bromega]

no matter what you're doing, don't let the venom filled words of others ever deter you. seriously. big respect to all people of all educational backgrounds who decided they wanted to better themselves and do something. whether they love it in itself, or for whatever reason, it's cool.

It sucks to see such self aggrandizing in these types of topics, it's pathetic, respect all people who want to educate themselves. That type of "herp drawing is easy" or "stem dudes r dumm" is so fucking pathetic and self affirming, just be respectful man.

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

no matter what you're doing, don't let the venom filled words of others ever deter you. seriously. big respect to all people of all educational backgrounds who decided they wanted to better themselves and do something. whether they love it in itself, or for whatever reason, it's cool.

It sucks to see such self aggrandizing in these types of topics, it's pathetic, respect all people who want to educate themselves. That type of "herp drawing is easy" or "stem dudes r dumm" is so fucking pathetic and self affirming, just be respectful man.

Would you say that my commentary has been disrespectful? If it has been I did not mean it that way.

 

[Alpha-Bromega]

Would you say that my commentary has been disrespectful? If it has been I did not mean it that way.

no. it's discourse rather than drive by self affirmation.

 

[XMonkey]

I'm a statistic. Started in Computer Engineering, toiled for 2 years, tried out Econ for a bit, then landed in Film. It wasn't getting low grades that dissuaded me from STEM classes or any of that, but I couldn't hack the math. The science I could get by in. I hated programming. I went to a great high school so it wasn't really my K-12 prep either.

Honestly though, what made me switch was that I didn't feel I would be happy with a career in Engineering, even if meant relative financial stability. I don't regret the decision I made, although graduating right into the kick-off of the Great Recession has made me wonder where I'd be now if I stuck with it. I wasn't expecting the economy to drive off a cliff when I switched to Film.

edit - I should add the attrition rate for Computer Engineering at my university was pretty high. Like 20-25% of the students who entered would actually graduate.

 

[genjiZERO]

That is kinda true though.

I wish biology would completely absorb psychology. I meet neuroscience PhD students all the time and none of them have even the slightest knowledge of evolution (because they all seem to be psych majors). It's strange to me that you could study something that was formed by evolution yet know nothing about it.

 

[Byakuya769]

Of all my courses in chemical engineering so far, Organic chemistry have been the easiest:S...

Heck, even General Chemistry is harder.

Interesting.

Three different friends of mine who are ChemE's:
a 3.2
a 3.6
and a 3.99

All had the hardest time with organic.

 

[ivysaur12]

Right on. Speaking from personal experience, I have aced every single liberal arts course I've taken in college so far -- philosophy, upper-level English, theology, etc. As a neuroscience major, I cannot even begin to relate how much easier these classes are than biology, chemistry, math, physics, etc. In saying this, I do not intend to devalue the work put into by folks who choose to get a liberal arts degree. I agree that STEM majors are much more difficult and time-consuming than other majors, though. Sure, you'll sometimes see people who excel in science but can't compose a coherent paragraph, but I don't think it's hard to see why the sciences are considered to be more difficult than liberal arts fields.

Edit - For what it's worth, I have also been playing classical, flamenco, Brazilian, and jazz guitar professionally for over 12 years, so I know full well the difficulty associated with non-science fields.

See, this is what bothers me: You assert that you're a science major and that every single liberal arts class you've taken is a joke. In one or two sentences, you've diminished the hard work that people who are liberal arts majors put into what they study. You've postulated that "sometimes" there might be science majors who can't form a sentence, but you imply that any old science major could get straight As in any liberal art field. Not only is that not true, it's disrespectful to students and graduates who are/were liberal arts majors.

Your edit at the end doesn't do anything to alleviate this problem because while you might recognize that you non-science fields do take work, it still doesn't change your original message.

I don't mean to keep harping on this point, but I've been surrounded by science majors throughout college who held similar viewpoints. It's been extremely frustrating, especially as a male in a liberal arts major, to get any respect for what I do. I realize that because of GAF's nature, most posters on here will be more inclined to the sciences/engineering. It's continually frustrating to hear these types of attitudes.

 

[bwtw]

See, this is what bothers me: You assert that you're a science major and that every single liberal arts class you've taken is a joke. In one or two sentences, you've diminished the hard work that people who are liberal arts majors put into what they study. You've postulated that "sometimes" there might be science majors who can't form a sentence, but you imply that any old science major could get straight As in any liberal art field. Not only is that not true, it's disrespectful to students and graduates who are/were liberal arts majors.

Your edit at the end doesn't do anything to alleviate this problem because while you might recognize that you non-science fields do take work, it still doesn't change your original message.

In his experience, liberal arts modules were easy. If it was easy for him should he say it was difficult and he had to work hard just so it doesn't 'diminish the hard work of others?'

Is it really that big a leap to suggest that on average STEM fields will be harder than liberal arts, for the average student? And is suggesting that this may be the case really insult on you or liberal art students? People aren't saying that *all* liberal arts students are lazy and having an easy ride, they're just saying that on average, a greater proportion of liberal arts students find their degree easy, compared to those in sciences.

 

[dvolovets]

See, this is what bothers me: You assert that you're a science major and that every single liberal arts class you've taken is a joke. In one or two sentences, you've diminished the hard work that people who are liberal arts majors put into what they study. You've postulated that "sometimes" there might be science majors who can't form a sentence, but you imply that any old science major could get straight As in any liberal art field. Not only is that not true, it's disrespectful to students and graduates who are/were liberal arts majors.

Your edit at the end doesn't do anything to alleviate this problem because while you might recognize that you non-science fields do take work, it still doesn't change your original message.

I'd like to reiterate that this is my personal experience. For me personally, yes, these classes were easy. However, notice that I never asserted that my experience is true for everyone. Class difficulty is an incredibly subjective thing, but in general, I don't think it's far-fetched to argue that science classes are more demanding than liberal arts courses. I am not diminishing anyone's hard work, I'm simply saying that your average science major probably finds their classes to be more difficult than a liberal arts major would find theirs.

 

[opticalmace]

See, this is what bothers me: You assert that you're a science major and that every single liberal arts class you've taken is a joke. In one or two sentences, you've diminished the hard work that people who are liberal arts majors put into what they study. You've postulated that "sometimes" there might be science majors who can't form a sentence, but you imply that any old science major could get straight As in any liberal art field. Not only is that not true, it's disrespectful to students and graduates who are/were liberal arts majors.

Your edit at the end doesn't do anything to alleviate this problem because while you might recognize that you non-science fields do take work, it still doesn't change your original message.

I don't mean to keep harping on this point, but I've been surrounded by science majors throughout college who held similar viewpoints. It's been extremely frustrating, especially as a male in a liberal arts major, to get any respect for what I do. I realize that because of GAF's nature, most posters on here will be more inclined to the sciences/engineering. It's continually frustrating to hear these types of attitudes.

Or maybe he just has a strong aptitude for those subjects. I think you're putting words into his mouth.