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[WEGGLES]

Even if she did, you vent fucking anonymously. You don't fucking name names and then post your rant all over the internet with the goal of sicing an army of internet attack dogs on her. He could have vented just as well without, you know, saying who she was

His actions aren't the actions of someone who just wants some catharsis by getting sympathy on the internet. He very clearly wanted to fuck with her

Nah. You sling as much mud as you can, with as much reach as you can. You name and shame. That's how reasonable adults handle personal relationships.

 

[andymcc]

You vent fucking anonymously. You don't fucking name names and then post your rant all over the internet with the goal of sicing an army of internet attack dogs on her. He could have vented just as well without, you know, saying who she was

Like, a few years ago, there was this dude on my facebook that got cheated on by his girlfriend. He vented like crazy, named names, etc, and can you guess what happened? Everyone acknowledged that it sucked but jumped down his fucking throat so fast and hard that he deleted the post. In real life, I've never seen anyone look good when doing this sort of shit. I think the ones defending it are the ones with little social awareness.

 

[Intheflorsh]

I can't really explain it that well. It's just like they HAD to be that developer to try to make a point about gay people when i'm already okay with them type of thing. It's just me being a grump really on a developer i really dislike already. Do you know where i'm coming from now kinda?

If you were a game designer, how would you put a gay character in a game without it feeling forced?

 

[SolidsnackooFoxhound]

I've read your replies and they don't actual address either your original assertion that gays in games are a political problem or your counter that you are okay with gay people, just not real world problems. If you didn't have an issue with gay people, you'd have never brought it up in the first place.
So, again, what other political problems are in your games that you can't stand? You only mentioned the one and are backpedaling on it.

You're misunderstanding me COMPLETELY. What i hate is that politics are in my games. I don't hate gays i'm not against same sex marriage or anything at all.

 

[The Technomancer]

Because decent human beings should have empathy for each other?

I sympathize with the dude wanting to post somewhere and get sympathy. We have "I think she cheated on me" threads on GAF sometimes. Hell, just a few weeks ago I told a, in retrospect, kind of darkly funny story about a painful breakup and it felt good to see people laugh at it. But as soon as you name names you cross a line, and its pretty clear that this wasn't some "accident", this guy spread this information as wide as he could with the goal of getting hundreds or thousands of people to harass her.

 

[neshcom]

oh..the "conspiracy theories"defense..yeah..i have seen that,and you know? thats the problem zoe defenders have,they put anyone who have any doubts about her behaviour under the same banner

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1s4nmr1/

this is total biscutit talking about the subject

Yeah, he only says he heard another video (not one of his) was supposedly DMCA'd by Zoey. He ever acknowledges that it could have been anyone abusing the joke of a DMCA system YouTube uses to impersonate her.

 

[Celegus]

I still have no idea what any of this is. I don't think I want involved either.

 

[SolidsnackooFoxhound]

If you were a game designer, how would you put a gay character in a game without it feeling forced?

Make him playable but not say anything.

 

[andymcc]

You're misunderstanding me COMPLETELY. What i hate is that politics are in my games. I don't hate gays i'm not against same sex marriage or anything at all.

Metal Gear is (while ham-fisted and cheesy) inherently political. Please just acknowledge you're arguing a point with little justification and move on.

 

[Damerman]

"what high horse are you riding that tells you its embarrassing to call someone out on their narcissistic view?"

The "view" in this case is feeling hated.

WOAH! i'm done... yeah. I'm done. this accusatory behavior is asinine.

 

[Booties]

Gas this shit thread. So dumb.

 

[Theecliff]

this thread is fucking embarassing

I'm just waiting for a mod to come along and purge some of these idiots from this site.

"Editor's Note: If you found this article from another message board and are about to leave a comment that boils down to, "I don't condone the harassment, but let me explain why she deserved it!" please just take a deep breath, step away from your computer, and call your mother. Tell her you love her. Call a friend and ask if they need anything. Go outside, gaze up into the sky, take a deep breath, and really appreciate the fact that you're alive and that you should make the most of it. Thank you."

Valuable advice, to those frail enough to think you can fuck your way through an industry.

She supposedly fucked a journalist after he had already wrote a generic list dump article about some indie games you should try out that just so happened to included her game. Not quite sure how that's 'fucking your way through an industry' unless she has some kind of time machine at her disposal. That, and the game we're talking about is free.

Fucking hell.

 

[Shmuppers]

Seeing some of Zoe's Facebook messages in that article are pretty enlightening as to her personality. I almost pity her.

 

[unround]

oh..the "conspiracy theories"defense..yeah..i have seen that,and you know? thats the problem zoe defenders have,they put anyone who have any doubts about her behaviour under the same banner

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1s4nmr1/

this is total biscutit talking about the subject

i dont hate her,i believe the people who attack her with insults,harrasement,etc etc are crazy nutjobs ,but man i she admits she likes to lie to everyone ( and she does on her logs) excuse me if i gonna be exceptical about some of her histories

However. It is entirely possible that she did not issue this claim and that it's someone impersonating her. It's easier than it should be to do this on Youtube because Youtubes system is terrible. That's always worth bearing in mind, even though the evidence I've seen up to this point seems to indicate that she is responsible. Again, you can't see very far in a shitstorm.

Seriously? Your 'proof' is a writeup where even Total Biscuit acknowledges there's a good chance of it being total bullshit?

 

[Inferno313]

As far as I understand it, it was confirmed she cheated with five separate people while in a relationship with the ex. There is no reason he should've had to stay quiet about it. It's not "slut shaming," it's "I feel this woman treated me horribly, and so I'm going to vent here." Yes, ultimately it's their personal shit to deal with, not ours, but I can dislike her for glossing over her actions while she mocks him. Maybe it was a bad relationship, maybe it was abusive, maybe he considered it a "relationship" well past when she did. But it doesn't sound that way. So it's valid for people to think, "Wow, she seems to have done something terrible to this guy," and based on that, dislike her.

Is it ok to vent? Sure. Is it ok to warn people that could potentially date her to watch out? Probably. Is it ok to launch an entire smear campaign on as many message boards as you can to ruin her career? Hell no, that's crazy town. As far as I'm concerned, what the ex did is way scummier than anything he accused her of.

Trying to damage someone's lively-hood because they hurt your feelings means that you need to grow up.

 

[SolidsnackooFoxhound]

Metal Gear is (while ham-fisted and cheesy) inherently political. Please just acknowledge you're arguing a point with little justification and move on.

What do i have to justify though? I don't understand.

 

[not_so_special]

Show me where he says she DMCAed him. You are saying things that are just factually incorrect. He's talking about an entirely different person, not himself. If you can't even keep things like this straight, why should anyone buy whatever else you're selling? All this post is is Totalbiscuit responding to events, he's not actually involved in any of them.

take it easy dude,im talking about how totalbiscuit accused her of using DMCA to youtubers,and thats a fact

im not selling anything my fellow gaffer..and its funny how u seen to leave the fine young capitalist,the wizardchan,gamenosh and gamejam issuies because these don suit your defense

as i said before blind defense its always a dangerous thing

Seriously? Your 'proof' is a writeup where even Total Biscuit acknowledges there's a good chance of it being total bullshit?

well its thats its her defense..good.anything bad or any offensive thing or comment zoe does on the internet its someone impersonating her

and there is more issues,not onlye the DMCA thing

 

[outunderthestars]

I wonder how many of the people already arguing about the scandal even bothered to read her essay.

 

[neshcom]

You're misunderstanding me COMPLETELY. What i hate is that politics are in my games. I don't hate gays i'm not against same sex marriage or anything at all.

So, like I've put in my replies, name any other political issue you find in your games! Just name any other issue you have.

 

[Tigress]

You're misunderstanding me COMPLETELY. What i hate is that politics are in my games. I don't hate gays i'm not against same sex marriage or anything at all.

And you still don't explain how this is politics? I feel a lot more railroaded in an RPG that I have to play a character how the developer wants when they don't offer me a choice than when they add more choices to allow me to play how I want.

How is it politics to add more choices in an open world RPG where the whole idea is to give people as many ways to play their character as possible? It's a lot more political not to have the option so you're railroaded into only the choices they think you should do.

 

[plagiarize]

No, I don't believe she slept with anyone to further her career, or oppress any negative talk about her. (That doesn't bar a standard friendship hypothetically accomplishing that, but no, I don't believe the sex was relevant.)

But when she says things like this...



As far as I understand it, it was confirmed she cheated with five separate people while in a relationship with the ex. There is no reason he should've had to stay quiet about it. It's not "slut shaming," it's "I feel this woman treated me horribly, and so I'm going to vent here." Yes, ultimately it's their personal shit to deal with, not ours, but I can dislike her for glossing over her actions while she mocks him. Maybe it was a bad relationship, maybe it was abusive, maybe he considered it a "relationship" well past when she did. But it doesn't sound that way. So it's valid for people to think, "Wow, she seems to have done something terrible to this guy," and based on that, dislike her.

It's valid to dislike Zoe Quinn for cheating on her ex boyfriend.

But that's got nothing to do with anything really. The internet hit squad turned up well before the IRC log was confirmed as real, and the original rant levied criticisms at her that weren't true. The original post that sparked off the whole thing was an exaggeration and a distortion.

I get it. A jilted ex wanting sympathy exaggerated the genuinely bad stuff done to him and used it like a hand grenade in a room full of gun powder and explosives.

We can debate how aware he was that he was setting off an explosion in a room full of much more powerful explosives, but that is exactly what he did, and pointing out that his rant wasn't that bad when taken out of the context of *where* he posted it does nothing.

He wanted to hurt her. Publically. He exaggerated the story for maximum impact.

He is absolutely worthy of criticism.

 

[SolidsnackooFoxhound]

So, like I've put in my replies, name any other political issue you find in your games! Just name any other issue you have.

I don't have any others.

 

[The Technomancer]

I get it. A jilted ex wanting sympathy exaggerated the genuinely bad stuff done to him and used it like a hand grenade in a room full of gun powder and explosives.

We can debate how aware he was that he was setting off an explosion in a room full of much more powerful explosives, but that is exactly what he did, and pointing out that his rant wasn't that bad when taken out of the context of *where* he posted it does nothing.

He wanted to hurt her. Publically. He exaggerated the story for maximum impact.

He is absolutely worthy of criticism.

I think his intentions are pretty obvious, considering that he didn't just write the blog post, he then went and posted it to multiple other places. That's someone trying to drum up activity.

 

[DylanTackoor]

Thought this blew over a while ago.

 

[Deleted member 13876]

Yo damn.

 

[The Technomancer]

I don't have any others.

And that's what we're asking you to defend. Why, then, is it just gay people that are a political issue?

 

[Azure Dream]

have you ever been in a real relationship?

Oh, cool, here we go. (And yes, my girlfriend and I are very happy.)

if any ex vented to this extent of the other ex's wrong-doings, I guarantee you no rational person is going to see the one airing dirty laundry in a positive light. This makes the dude look like an insecure man-child with zero coping skills.

No, this sort of thing happens all the time. People vent, especially after going through bad relationships, especially with cheating spouses. That doesn't make them "man-children" with "zero coping skills," that makes them "hurt indivuduals." The original post isn't that long (even though she makes it out to be in this article, calling it a 10,000 word rant when it seems to be about 784 words), and mostly reads like a stream of consciousness as he lists off things he went through.

 

[Valnen]

I sympathize with the dude wanting to post somewhere and get sympathy. We have "I think she cheated on me" threads on GAF sometimes. Hell, just a few weeks ago I told a, in retrospect, kind of darkly funny story about a painful breakup and it felt good to see people laugh at it. But as soon as you name names you cross a line, and its pretty clear that this wasn't some "accident", this guy spread this information as wide as he could with the goal of getting hundreds or thousands of people to harass her.

Harassing her is wrong, but I do think the people in her life deserve to know what kind of dishonest person they're dealing with. That's why going on the internet about it is probably wrong, of course.

 

[Captain Tuttle]

lol internet most hated person? talking about inflated ego, not even close

You're embarrassing yourself

 

[Mael]

I don't have any others.

I've got to give it to you, you may not make your point in the most clear fashion but you handled yourself rather well.
Seriously I don't think that you have any other problem other than :
*Bioware announce new game*
*emphasis on relationships and how you can do totally what you want*
and then you go "This again? Can't they talk about anything but the relationships?"

I don't think you're a raging homophobe either

 

[Theecliff]

Harassing her is wrong, but I do think the people in her life deserve to know what kind of dishonest person they're dealing with.

The whole internet isn't exactly just 'the people in her life'

 

[SolidsnackooFoxhound]

I've got to give it to you, you may not make your point in the most clear fashion but you handled yourself rather well.
Seriously I don't think that you have any other problem other than :
*Bioware announce new game*
*emphasis on relationships and how you can do totally what you want*
and then you go "This again? Can't they talk about anything but the relationships?"

I don't think you're a raging homophobe either

I'm not. My moms side of the family is racist and homophobic but i am not.

 

[Deleted member 126221]

As far as I understand it, it was confirmed she cheated with five separate people while in a relationship with the ex. There is no reason he should've had to stay quiet about it. It's not "slut shaming," it's "I feel this woman treated me horribly, and so I'm going to vent here." Yes, ultimately it's their personal shit to deal with, not ours, but I can dislike her for glossing over her actions while she mocks him. Maybe it was a bad relationship, maybe it was abusive, maybe he considered it a "relationship" well past when she did. But it doesn't sound that way. So it's valid for people to think, "Wow, she seems to have done something terrible to this guy," and based on that, dislike her.

Errrrr... So instead of dealing with it in private, he tried to slut-shame her (yes, that's what it is) by exposing her sex life all over the internet and searching for the support of overtly sexist gaming communities, who then went on to harass her day and night. Gee, I wonder who's the biggest asshole here.

Yes, getting cheated on is shitty (if that's even what happened here), but if your reaction is to try to get "revenge" by depicting your ex as a "slut" all over the internet AND try to pretend it's all linked to a gaming journalism conspirary (oh lol), then I have absolutely no sympathy for you.

 

[Kazdane]

This sums up all this drama quite nicely from my point of view:

Gentlemen," we said amid the stunned silence, "do you realize that if what they're saying is true, then this is still the most pointless fucking bullshit anyone has ever forced us to read?"

Our industry needs to grow up. And it will. Unfortunately it will still take time until the train gets there :/

 

[andymcc]

I don't have any others.

So, in Metal Gear Solid 1, the discussion the Human Genome shit isn't political?

The huge ending sequence talking about the US not disarming nukes as promised isn't political?

The various stories juxtaposing the strife of living in a war-torn nation versus a peaceful capitalist one isn't political?

Metal Gear beats you over the head with it's politics yet you don't see them as being "political" I think it is safe to assume that you don't employ any sort of analysis when you play games and chalk up "gays" as being the only political issue.

 

[plagiarize]

I think his intentions are pretty obvious, considering that he didn't just write the blog post, he then went and posted it to multiple other places. That's someone trying to drum up activity.

Oh, I would definitely be on the same side of the debate as yourself, but I think what he did is worthy of criticism even if he wasn't trying to cause as much of a shit storm as he did.

Which I think he probably was. I just think it's debatable that he knew how much of a shit storm he was creating. But that original blog post was definitely trying to hurt her at least somewhat.

 

[FlyinJ]

I don't have any others.

Just earlier you said you played Metal Gear before you "started hating politics in games".

But your only political issue is having gay people in games?

I don't get it...

 

[Intheflorsh]

WOAH! i'm done... yeah. I'm done. this accusatory behavior is asinine.

OK, but I would appreciate it if you could tell me how I'm wrong here.

 

[Corpekata]

take it easy dude,im talking about how totalbiscuit accused her of using DMCA to youtubers,and thats a fact

im not selling anything my fellow gaffer..and its funny how u seen to leave the fine young capitalist,the wizardchan,gamenosh and gamejam issuies because these don suit your defense

as i said before blind defense its always a dangerous thing

This is your direct quote "dmc againts totalbiscuit."

That doesn't sound to me like you're saying Totalbiscuit was saying anything, that looks to me like you're saying it was against him. Which, again, really calls into question your perception of events if you can't keep something like that straight.

As far as those others, you haven't elaborated on them. You've listed them. Not exactly much to work with there. What, for instance, did she do to Gamenosh? Most of the TFYC was over inflated. Early theories abounded about an intentional DDOS, and now even TFYC admits the site was simply overrun with traffic. You preach being skeptical and not being blind but you seem to be accepting a whole lot of stuff without proof, just when it works against her. Not going to be skeptical about TFYC's initial reddit post when they said it was an intentional DDOS attack, I bet.

 

[Camp Freddie]

No. It's just not there. I can't say i agree or disagree. It just wasn't planned to be in there at at all : ).

The personal is political, as we used to say.

Practically everything is political. Even Mario is political (as Sarkeesian would point out, the princess is not rescuing the plumber).
If I made a game with only gay people in it, would that be okay? I mean it wouldn't be political, straight people just won't be there at all - right?

Anyway, back to the OP. I think it's a great article. It accurately deconstructs the ridiculousness of gamergate without throwing the baby out with the bathwater. And she maintains her sense of humour, which is important due to the critical mass of irony present within gamergate.

And the little prologues and epilogues by the Cracked editors are also spot on.

 

[VibratingDonkey]

Sure, let's descend back into this embarrassing farce again.

 

[Denton]

That was terribly sad article that was also pretty funny in places. Zoe knows how to write. The harrasment it fucked up. Had no idea about the Jessi Slaughter. I watched those videos and man, 11 year old girl talking like that is kinda heartbreaking. The harrasment she got was insane though.

 

[not_so_special]

Harassing her is wrong, but I do think the people in her life deserve to know what kind of dishonest person they're dealing with. That's why going on the internet about it is probably wrong, of course.

especially when she admits she lied to everyone and have some serious problems about that subject

i dont give a fxx is she is a woman,a man about her sex life,etc etc but when she admits she loves lo lie,she is adicted to lie ( read the logs,these are real) i have serious problems believing everything she says

harrassment and insults are insane,and must be legaly persecuted im not gonna argue that

 

[ViewtifulJC]

I just want to say how odd it is to see a guy with a MGS avatar complaining about politics in video games

pls make sure you skip out on Metal Gear Solid 5's point of view on Torture, child soldiers, and rape. But I guess it'll be ok if they are no gay people right, cuz that would be forced

hell, how many non political games are there these days

 

[Baron_Calamity]

Every Time this comes up I'm at a loss for words. My brain thinks there is no way this actually happen. Is our society that messed up? Probably but I'm certainly having trouble coming to terms with it. My oldest daughter wants to grow up to be a game developer. That use to not scare the crap out of me. :\

 

[chaobreaker]

So many people here both sides of this whole shitstorm is "just as bad". Get real. One side honestly believes that Zoe Quinn slept with countless amount of people in order to promote her f2p text adventure game and hide their bigotry behind a legitimate argument of corruption in the gaming journalism industry and a game fundraiser. The other side is a bunch of game developers and journalist who have to defend themselves against a nameless horde that is hellbent on ruining their lives. Yeah maybe some of them wrote some twitter posts and articles that painted some gamers with a wide brush. Like that's even half as worse as the shit Quinn and Phil Fish went through last month.

 

[ampere]

So you've never been cheated on and can't empathize with how devastating it is?

a) The dude could have made it up

b) It's no one's business but the people in the relationship

 

[andymcc]

i dont give a fxx is she is a woman,a man about her sex life,etc etc but when she admits she loves lo lie,she is adicted to lie ( read the logs,these are real) i have serious problem believing everything she says

dude, as someone that experienced one of the worst break-ups due to a partner cheating, you have to be pretty maladjusted to vent in the way that dude did.

 

[The Technomancer]

That was terribly sad article that was also pretty funny in places. Zoe knows how to write. The harrasment it fucked up. Had no idea about the Jessi Slaughter. I watched those videos and man, 11 year old girl talking like that is kinda heartbreaking. The harrasment she got was insane though.

Worth pointing out that these are usually written in concert with Cracked's writing staff, so all of the funny may not be her. But some of it probably is

Seriously though, these articles that Cracked have been doing have been really interesting. Here's one about a phone sex worker, and here's one about a gay guy living in India. They interview EMTs and doctors working in third world countries and stuff, its some of the best content they've ever done

 

[Booties]

MGS avatar dude doesn't like "real-world drama" in his video games. Wow. Repeatedly refused to provide proof or reasoning upon multiple requests. How old do you think he is?

Kid got the sack, time to move on y'all.