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[Deleted member 126221]

this

while I'm against the whole harassment thing and some communities brought in the worst of themselves, I find that the fact that some wrongdoing were exposed is a good thing in all this mess.

I don't think that Quinn is a "true" feminist but rather a woman that labels as misogynist anything she don't like regardless it's relevant or not. Like depression quest is a mediocre game at best but she kept saying that it got initially slammed because she was a woman.

Also the whole thing about what she considers rape means that she is willing to betray the ideals she holds up if this is useful to her. And then she fears that being exposed as a liar is going to tarnish her reputation as feminist heroine in gaming.

Also it's funny how seh says ALLEGED sex life when she even admitted to on some occasions.

Who are you to judge what is "true" and "fake" feminism? Are you an expert on the matter?

And looking at all the comments and insults flying around, can you seriously, honestly say this whole shitstorm has nothing to do with her gender?

 

[Corronchilejano]

At least there's no CP rumours going around...yet.

You mean, in the gaming industry? Cause...

http://www.polygon.com/2014/7/30/59...v-kenneth-mcculloch-child-pornography-charges

Kenneth McCulloch, the former Silicon Knights director and Precursor Games founder who was arrested last year on child pornography charges, was sentenced this week in an Ontario Court of Justice. According to a report published by The Welland Tribune, Judge Joseph Nadel sentenced McCulloch to time served — 12 months — after the former game developer pleaded guilty to a charge of making child pornography available.

 

[Mael]

You mean, in the gaming industry? Cause...

http://www.polygon.com/2014/7/30/59...v-kenneth-mcculloch-child-pornography-charges

Yeah I remembered that while typing,
I'm depressed now.

 

[Stet]

this

while I'm against the whole harassment thing and some communities brought in the worst of themselves, I find that the fact that some wrongdoing were exposed is a good thing in all this mess.

I don't think that Quinn is a "true" feminist but rather a woman that labels as misogynist anything she don't like regardless it's relevant or not. Like depression quest is a mediocre game at best but she kept saying that it got initially slammed because she was a woman.

Also the whole thing about what she considers rape means that she is willing to betray the ideals she holds up if this is useful to her. And then she fears that being exposed as a liar is going to tarnish her reputation as feminist heroine in gaming.

Also it's funny how seh says ALLEGED sex life when she even admitted to on some occasions.

It's a really sad world we live in when someone being a hypocrite is somehow worse than systemic sexism in an industry to the point that it even overshadows it.

 

[unround]

At least there's no CP rumours going around...yet.

Pretty sure Sarkeesian said that she was being spammed with child porn pics on twitter as part of her usual harassment too.

 

[Mael]

Pretty sure Sarkeesian said that she was being spammed with child porn pics on twitter as part of her usual harassment too.

Oh FFS! I hope twitter help police everywhere catch the sick fucks.
OMG, that's so foul and vile.

 

[marrec]

I don't read cracked or vice, nor do I care about those publications. It does speak poorly about her constant wish to "distance herself from the internet drama.'

That said, I'm annoyed that the influence of this debate, and it's constant maintenance and evolution have leaked into other websites I like to read. The Verge, Polygon (they actually have good long reads), twitter, and recently it's dominated a lot of feminist discussions in my field. It's an internet drama of people acting unprofessionally that's been twisted into a gender issue.

It's annoying because there is no end goal in sight and there is a lot of tribute to 'having a dialogue', which is false and disingenuous in itself. One side is reactionary with no agenda, and the other stands to profit from continuing the internet drama machine.

People are writing about it because it inspires compelling content. Zoe Quinn isn't the arbiter of what Cracked or Polygon writes about and her reach is limited to the microphone that those websites and people who are opposed give her.

She's not actively reaching out to amplify the drama. She's being contacted to do interviews and articles which then get shit on from the rabid hate mob which only expands the reach of her articles and interviews and proves them to be prophetic in their content.

I'm not sure what you expect her to do.

And that's wrong. But instead of taking action against it, it's been nothing but tumblr posts and twitter. There is an individual directly responsible behind airing out her dirty laundry for all to see. It's hurt her professionally and personally. Instead of going directly after that person, we've gotten a mixed message of "it's none of your business, leave me alone" and "look at this people plotting against me!"

If you're not addressing the root of the problem head on, then you're just prolonging it. (The root of the problem is her personal information and chat logs being distributed for the public to see, not the internet backlash)

Nah, the root is the internet backlash. Her ex is just a bitter baby crying into the nothingness of the internet. There's tons of tumblr baby posts crying into nothingness. The ONLY reason this became news is because a bunch of people decided they could use it to poop on Quinn. She didn't send that blog post to The Guardian or Washington Post or Cracked. The culture of bitterness surrounding her game and her vocal style did and continued calls that accuse her of manufacturing drama just add to that hate.

 

[Noaloha]

this

while I'm against the whole harassment thing and some communities brought in the worst of themselves, I find that the fact that some wrongdoing were exposed is a good thing in all this mess.

I don't think that Quinn is a "true" feminist but rather a woman that labels as misogynist anything she don't like regardless it's relevant or not. Like depression quest is a mediocre game at best but she kept saying that it got initially slammed because she was a woman.

Also the whole thing about what she considers rape means that she is willing to betray the ideals she holds up if this is useful to her. And then she fears that being exposed as a liar is going to tarnish her reputation as feminist heroine in gaming.

Also it's funny how seh says ALLEGED sex life when she even admitted to on some occasions.

Hey, heads up, the editor of the Cracked article left you a message at the end:

Editor's Note: If you found this article from another message board and are about to leave a comment that boils down to, "I don't condone the harassment, but let me explain why she deserved it!" please just take a deep breath, step away from your computer, and call your mother. Tell her you love her. Call a friend and ask if they need anything. Go outside, gaze up into the sky, take a deep breath, and really appreciate the fact that you're alive and that you should make the most of it. Thank you.

(my underlines)

 

[Ponn]

My apologies. If I could remove my posts, I would. I'll just be more mindful next time.

Anyways, getting back to the article. I think clearly we have an issue with the internet, and how people use it to vent their issues. I think this always been a platform for that sort of thing. But IMO it's getting worse, in that it's becoming easier for people to find other people like them that are also angry (seeing those MRA type forums, really scares me). And so when you have this kind of, group mentality for releasing that anger, it can be a very dangerous thing.

I said this in one my edited posts, but what is the solution? Is it better education? Do we need to educate people that it's not healthy to vent and use technology as that outlet? Do we need more government/oversight & regulation? As it stands now, it feels like the free web is basically the Wild West. I dunno. But it really feels like in this day and age, you do NOT want to be a public figure that is a heavy user on the internet.

I dont feel "education" is always the answer sadly. If people dont want to learn, which is more than one would think, then educating is talking to a wall. How many kids and teens in schools are shit starters and bullies despite all the messaging out there. Maybe im too cynical as i get older but ive just come to accept that no matter what you do there will be assholes in the world. The problem that the internet creates is those assholes while locally can be miniscule and go unnoticed can congregate online into a bigger more vile mass unchecked and focused anywhere and anytime.

This is why ive always been against the movement of real ids and putting your real information out there like Blizzard was pushing. People wanted to be altruistic and think it would help identify assholes and police the internet better. The sad reality is the assholes have much more power on the internet in an unpoliced neutral environment then others. The answer to this situation is one alot of people wont like and will ultimately be a slippery slope.

 

[SparkPeople]

People are writing about it because it inspires compelling content. Zoe Quinn isn't the arbiter of what Cracked or Polygon writes about and her reach is limited to the microphone that those websites and people who are opposed give her.

She's not actively reaching out to amplify the drama. She's being contacted to do interviews and articles which then get shit on from the rabid hate mob which only expands the reach of her articles and interviews and proves them to be prophetic in their content.

I'm not sure what you expect her to do.

If she wants to get out of the drama-cycle, turn down he interviews?

Nah, the root is the internet backlash. Her ex is just a bitter baby crying into the nothingness of the internet. There's tons of tumblr baby posts crying into nothingness. The ONLY reason this became news is because a bunch of people decided they could use it to poop on Quinn. She didn't send that blog post to The Guardian or Washington Post or Cracked. The culture of bitterness surrounding her game and her vocal style did and continued calls that accuse her of manufacturing drama just add to that hate.

Nope. Internet backlash didn't come out of thin air. It had to be preceded by someone, and a former partner that she trusted took her private information, and private communications with others and published it onto the internet, knowing her position within the community and her recent work. While he played it off as an attempt to 'right a wrong' it has permanently damaged her position as a game developer from my point of view.

And she constantly manufactures drama. Half the shit I see about the issue of women in gaming comes from her as the debate shifts away from her.

Hey, heads up, the editor of the Cracked article left you a message at the end:

Editor's Note: If you found this article from another message board and are about to leave a comment that boils down to, "I don't condone the harassment, but let me explain why she deserved it!" please just take a deep breath, step away from your computer, and call your mother. Tell her you love her. Call a friend and ask if they need anything. Go outside, gaze up into the sky, take a deep breath, and really appreciate the fact that you're alive and that you should make the most of it. Thank you.

(my underlines)

"Only losers without friends, who are afraid to go outside will post against the article we wrote. You're not a loser, are you?"

 

[Dr_LucienSanchez]

And she constantly manufactures drama. Half the shit I see about the issue of women in gaming comes from her as the debate shifts away from her.

So you honestly think that she enjoys all the abuse and harassment that she's gotten over the past month? Because it sure sounds like you're saying that she's bringing it on herself.

 

[Clefargle]

Not caring what others do with their dicks, vaginas and/or other body appendages and orifices is actually the sane course of action generally speaking.

This should be taught in middle school.

 

[Deleted member 126221]

And she constantly manufactures drama. Half the shit I see about the issue of women in gaming comes from her as the debate shifts away from her.

Please elaborate on that...

 

[deltatheta]

I think that the gamergaters have tried to distance themselves from Zoe Quinn after it finally became completely apparent even to them that there is no scandal there. Now they resent the fact that she keeps mentioning that there was a huge fucking harassment campaign against her that was based on nothing.

 

[Paskil]

"Only losers without friends, who are afraid to go outside will post against the article we wrote. You're not a loser, are you?"

It sure sounds like you're condoning people going on there saying "I don't want to say she deserves it, but she deserves it."

 

[Eidan]

"Only losers without friends, who are afraid to go outside will post against the article we wrote. You're not a loser, are you?"

I think what they were going for was that if you're going to engage in entry level victim blaming, it would be best to do ANYTHING else.

That said, I don't necessarily disagree with your comment. I think the people who are trying to justify the harassment Quinn has received while at the same time saying harassment is wrong, are complete scumbags.

 

[Noaloha]

"Only losers without friends, who are afraid to go outside will post against the article we wrote. You're not a loser, are you?"

That's certainly, uh, one interpretation of that Editor's Note. A tad cynical and on-the-defensive for my tastes. I prefer the more obvious one.

 

[catapult37]

It sure sounds like you're condoning people going on there saying "I don't want to say she deserves it, but she deserves it."

This was one of those 4chan talking points. Deflect, focus on how your dissent is being "silenced."

 

[FlyinJ]

I think that the gamergaters have tried to distance themselves from Zoe Quinn after it finally became completely apparent even to them that there is no scandal there. Now they resent the fact that she keeps mentioning that there was a huge fucking harassment campaign against her that was based on nothing.

They keep saying they're distancing themselves, but as soon as some Brietbart guy finds "evidence" that she did something wrong, the entire hashtag explodes with anti-Zoe vitriol.

See the charity "expose" on Friday that turned out to be complete bullshit.

 

[Entryhazard]

So you're saying that she got the justice she deserved?
Since surely all bad people should be punished, right?
She at least deserve something for passing as a TRUE™ feminist?

Who are you to judge what is "true" and "fake" feminism? Are you an expert on the matter?

And looking at all the comments and insults flying around, can you seriously, honestly say this whole shitstorm has nothing to do with her gender?

Hey, heads up, the editor of the Cracked article left you a message at the end:

Editor's Note: If you found this article from another message board and are about to leave a comment that boils down to, "I don't condone the harassment, but let me explain why she deserved it!" please just take a deep breath, step away from your computer, and call your mother. Tell her you love her. Call a friend and ask if they need anything. Go outside, gaze up into the sky, take a deep breath, and really appreciate the fact that you're alive and that you should make the most of it. Thank you.

(my underlines)

And you should read what I said properly, because I didn't say that she deserved it, and I didn't even mean that. I was saying that one of the side effect was a good thing as I barely suffer liars and deceitful people on general. What they did to her was terrible, but I think that exposing her lies was the right thing and the rest a horrible excess. Other need to know who she really is when relating to her to not end hup hurt themselves, how lesser it is compared to the hate that raged on the internet.

She didn't deserved the harassment that resulted, are the others that deserved to know some truth.

Also about "true" feminism I used it's because there are clues that she used the cause to further her own position while it's clear that she has not strong tenets, as the rape thing proves.

(For what does not know what this issue is, she claimed that cheating on someone and then aving sex with that person should be considered rape, as if that perso knew that he was cheated on most likely he wouldn't have been consenting. And while that may make sans as it works on the same principle some law systems consider rape having sex with drunk women, she is a rapist by her own claimed standard, as she cheated on his boyfriend with people and some were engaged themselves and most likely she knew it)

I think that for example someone like Anita Sarkeesian truly believes in what she does and the cause she fights for even though sometimes she ends up misunderstanding some thing about gaming in general, while I believe that Zoe is taking up the role of feminist heroine to garner success.

It's a really sad world we live in when someone being a hypocrite is somehow worse than systemic sexism in an industry to the point that it even overshadows it.

It's not worse, sexism as any discrimination is one of the worst things out there, but the fact that she was victim of a worse offence does not mean the we have to ignore what she did herself.

 

[The Technomancer]

That's certainly, uh, one interpretation of that Editor's Note. A tad cynical and on-the-defensive for my tastes. I prefer the more obvious one.

So par for the course with this entire fiasco?

 

[Rayis]

Ok, now that I did a bit of reading on this, I'm just wondering, if people want more honesty and integrity from game journalists. what's the point of harassing and sending death threats to Zoe Quinn and Anita Sarkeesian? what does that accomplish other than making those people look like savages? I just don't understand what possesses people to think they're fighting the good fight by threatening people, and being terrible human beings in general, this is ridiculous.

It's not worse, sexism as any discrimination is one of the worst things out there, but the fact that she was victim of a worse offence does not mean the we have to ignore what she did herself.

I don't know about that, but the fact that what she got is magnitudes worse than what she did (mind you, I don't even think w/e she did is THAT bad in the first place) does warrant ignoring what she did.

 

[KalBalboa]

So does she expect to be treated like a hero now?

 

[Kurod]

So you honestly think that she enjoys all the abuse and harassment that she's gotten over the past month? Because it sure sounds like you're saying that she's bringing it on herself.

Well...

When you explicitly tell people to harass you in exchange for Smash demo codes it kinda looks like that.

 

[kick51]

Ok, now that I did a bit of reading on this, I'm just wondering, if people want more honesty and integrity from game journalists. what's the point of harassing and sending death threats to Zoe Quinn and Anita Sarkeesian? what does that accomplish other than making those people look like savages? I just don't understand what possesses people to think they're fighting the good fight by threatening people, and being terrible human beings in general, this is ridiculous.

they don't actually care about game journalism integrity/ethics. that's the whole thing. They got as far as attempting to connect a bunch of dots to allege some huge conspiracy among blogs and indie devs and failed.

 

[Mononoke]

If the behavior I see on Facebook is anything to read into, anonymity can only be one small part of the problem. I think it's got more in common with road rage. It's an interaction with the rest of the world through a device that we come to think of as an extension of ourselves, while in an environment that feels a lot like our own 'territory' for want of a better word.

But I think we will adapt and figure it out. That's what we do. Those arguing for the status quo are basically yelling at the continental plates to stop drifting. Those of us arguing for progress... well, we're just part of that process I think.

Interesting stuff. I actually quit Facebook 4 years ago, because I started to notice some of this behavior. That and, well I felt like Facebook made me TOO close to people (ie. people were sharing too much information, and it was making me re-think my relationship with them). I would rather not be that close to certain people. If that makes sense. I feel like people have no self-awareness on there, and use it as an outlet to expose everything with no filter.

Point is, I haven't been around Facebook the last 4 years, so it's interesting to hear how behaviors have changed on there.

 

[Deleted member 126221]

Also about "true" feminism I used it's because there are clues that she used the cause to further her own position

And I ask you again: who are you to judge what is and what is not "true feminism"? It's not "true" because defending women in gaming also mean defending herself, is that what you are trying to say?

 

[outunderthestars]

Well...

When you explicitly tell people to harass you in exchange for Smash demo codes it kinda looks like that.

Every week I find more reasons to never use Twitter.

 

[Enco]

One of the most ridiculous things that has happened in gaming.

Most online communities (eg Reddit/4chan) are really embarrassing.

 

[Terrified]

ITT I learned that people can judge a human being's entire worth based on only one aspect of their life, and that all acts of adultery are completely black and white without the slightest shades of grey.

What an interesting time to be alive......

 

[maltrain]

"The Internet's Most Hated Person"

What a fucking ego... I never heard of her and I'm on internet 50% of the day...

 

[Aeana]

"The Internet's Most Hated Person"

What a fucking ego... I never heard of her and I'm on internet 50% of the day...

I don't think she titled the article. If you actually read it, it sounds like that was the editor's idea. Remember, this is Cracked.

 

[danm999]

"The Internet's Most Hated Person"

What a fucking ego... I never heard of her and I'm on internet 50% of the day...

I don't think she picked the title.

 

[Noaloha]

Well...

When you explicitly tell people to harass you in exchange for Smash demo codes it kinda looks like that.

I don't know if I'm misinterpreting what you're saying here, sorry. It sounds like you're saying Quinn is supporting that tweet? Sorry if I've got that wrong. Anyway, that's not my take on it at all. I'm pretty sure that Quinn's been making a point of retweeting the stranger examples of harassment she's seen, especially if they're of a canvassing or otherwise obvious social media manipulation type.

 

[Aramiyo]

I don't know if I'm misinterpreting what you're saying here, sorry. It sounds like you're saying Quinn is supporting that tweet? Sorry if I've got that wrong. Anyway, that's not my take on it at all. I'm pretty sure that Quinn's been making a point of retweeting the stranger examples of harassment she's seen, especially if they're of a canvassing or otherwise obvious social media manipulation type.

Teridax has been supporting Zoe since day one, I've gotten abusive messages from them. She's definitely supporting that tweet.

 

[Eidan]

So does she expect to be treated like a hero now?

Odd question.

 

[radioactivez0r]

There were some interesting talking points in the first few pages of this thread, and I felt it was going in some good directions when people started substituting Alec Baldwin for Adam Baldwin, but now it's devolved into a cheating discussion. Bummer.

 

[Noaloha]

Teridax has been supporting Zoe since day one, I've gotten abusive messages from them. She's definitely supporting that tweet.

Ah okay, thanks for clarifying. Fair point from Kurod then.

 

[ronito]

Secretly I hoped this would be about the "trainers hate him!" guy

 

[Solid Samus]

"The Internet's Most Hated Person"

What a fucking ego... I never heard of her and I'm on internet 50% of the day...

50% of the day? You spend exactly twelve whole hours every single day sat at your computer? That's insane. I wish somehow that that could be explained as some sort of slight exaggeration meant to add emphasis to your point but as we all know in reality everything is entirely literal. What a fucking lol...

 

[Stet]

It's not worse, rape is one of the worst things out there, but the fact that she was victim of a worse offence does not mean the we have to ignore what she did herself.

Hang on, read what you just wrote again with one tiny change and let me know what you think of your opinion when it's applied to a different offence.

 

[Simply Sarah]

I don't think she titled the article. If you actually read it, it sounds like that was the editor's idea. Remember, this is Cracked.

This is almost certainly the case. I mean, if newspapers do it that way I can't see Cracked being any different.

 

[Stop It]

this

while I'm against the whole harassment thing and some communities brought in the worst of themselves, I find that the fact that some wrongdoing were exposed is a good thing in all this mess.

I don't think that Quinn is a "true" feminist but rather a woman that labels as misogynist anything she don't like regardless it's relevant or not. Like depression quest is a mediocre game at best but she kept saying that it got initially slammed because she was a woman.

Also the whole thing about what she considers rape means that she is willing to betray the ideals she holds up if this is useful to her. And then she fears that being exposed as a liar is going to tarnish her reputation as feminist heroine in gaming.

Also it's funny how seh says ALLEGED sex life when she even admitted to on some occasions.

I don't know where to start with this, between this and your follow up post, who the hell are you to say who is a "true" feminist or not. You're reaching to try to discredit someone because you do not like them. Private matters are bloody irrelevant here and your deliberate mis-representation that Zoe thinks she is a "heroine in gaming" is pretty telling. She isn't perfect, who is? That does not disqualify legitimate points she raised and in no way justifies the treatment she has been receiving. Argue the ideas, not the person, first rule of debate.

If she wants to get out of the drama-cycle, turn down he interviews?

Nope. Internet backlash didn't come out of thin air. It had to be preceded by someone, and a former partner that she trusted took her private information, and private communications with others and published it onto the internet, knowing her position within the community and her recent work. While he played it off as an attempt to 'right a wrong' it has permanently damaged her position as a game developer from my point of view.

And she constantly manufactures drama. Half the shit I see about the issue of women in gaming comes from her as the debate shifts away from her.

"Only losers without friends, who are afraid to go outside will post against the article we wrote. You're not a loser, are you?"

And this, wow. She isn't manufacturing anything, she is using the vitriol and hatred received to highlight a very serious issue not only in some circles of gaming culture but on the internet and society in general. Sexism and misogyny is still seen as acceptable by some, and the ill-treatment and dis-respect of women because they dare to have (and use!) their vagina is still clear to see as a not so subtle subtext of the whole GamerGate nonsense.

Again, what has her and her private life got to do with anyone but them. Pretty much any other perceived "crime" committed by Zoe, from using sex to gain favour in the industry etc etc has been shown to be complete arse dribble so it boils down to a personal matter. One which I personally disagree with, but is none of my business. Perhaps you should be thinking that "half of the shit" isn't an attempt to shift attention, but to highlight the fact sexism in gaming culture is a much bigger issue than just one person and who they had sex with!

It's not worse, sexism as any discrimination is one of the worst things out there, but the fact that she was victim of a worse offence does not mean the we have to ignore what she did herself.

Ah, so she brought it on herself, got it.

 

[entremet]

Secretly I hoped this would be about the "trainers hate him!" guy

lol same here.

 

[SOME-MIST]

funny how she posts this as the whole ordeal died down.
XFD @ labeling herself the internets most hated person and trying to stir shit up again

 

[ShinLuigi]

Always hated the stance GAF seemed to have on this issue. Especially Evilore's incredibly condecending and clearly disingenuous post about it.

 

[mantidor]

Well...

When you explicitly tell people to harass you in exchange for Smash demo codes it kinda looks like that.

This... what?

It's kind of disturbing you think that retweet means she's ok with it.

Edit: well now I don't know... I'm out.

 

[Deleted member 126221]

Always hated the stance GAF seemed to have on this issue. Especially Evilore's incredibly condecending and clearly disingenuous post about it.

What do you mean? Please elaborate.

 

[Dr.Acula]

The editor's note is spot on

A few weeks ago our message board and general inbox were bombarded with demands we address something called the "GamerGate Scandal", posts written with the urgency and rage one would associate with, say, discovering that Chipotle burritos are made entirely from the meat of human babies. It's apparently a big deal in some circles, so we followed the links and read the piles of data presented, and had to stop and take a deep breath just to grasp it all. "Gentlemen," we said amid the stunned silence, "do you realize that if what they're saying is true, then this is still the most pointless fucking bullshit anyone has ever forced us to read?"

Thank you! It's hard enough to get people to take seriously DRM (XBone launch) and privacy issues (PSN hacking), wholesale plagiarism (flappy bird clones on iTunes) and aggressive trademark enforcement (Candy Crush Saga suing over usage of the word Saga), so seeing space and time wasted on this nonsense was maddening.

There is no news here, only gossip. SimCity lying about their reasons to be always on, then astroturfing sites like Neogaf and others with lies about the cloud was a serious issue that deserved the inches it got. What the hell was gamers gate? At least Driv3r was an old fashion payola scandal, Depression Quest is so Lo-Fi indie it's barely a consumer product.

 

[RadarScope1]

Everyone knows that writers don't write the headlines that appear above their articles, right? You all know this?

Mods doing us a favor once again. If nothing else, these threads are great for culling out the people who love insults and hate facts.