5 Things I Learned as the Internet's Most Hated Person

Making the decision to produce and release prurient photography of yourself has a connection to the consequence of having that imagery available to others. Of the mistreatment she's had to deal with, I find that the one she literally did have direct control over. Even in terms of copyright theft, she isn't the entity "harmed" by that.
 
TsunamiOfSwagger said:
I know that she does not have to stop for any one, and that she should be able to post anything that she wants on whatever site, but is it really worth the abuse she will inevitably get? If she defends herself, abuse. If she says sorry, abuse. If I received constant abuse from anywhere, I would stop visiting that site.
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Because, if she is truly genuine (I think she is), maybe her speaking out will change some people's minds. It'll get the word out that there's a problem in the industry.

Things won't change if we do nothing and it has to start somewhere. Maybe this will help.
 
HyperCubed4 said:
By GAF's favourite, Zoe Quinn.

Link.



Haven't been following the Zoe Quinn story, but I thought GAF would appreciate it.

Lock if old.
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I get the feeling this woman thinks too highly of herself...

Well whatever. I don't know her whole story either but what I've red doesn't paint her in a good picture
 
Current "Gamer culture" is such crap. Seems like its the result of profane twelve year olds on Xbox Live now being profane adults, who think games ar exclusive to them.
 
danm999 said:
The men she slept with, some of whom are journalists, have received not a fraction of the scrutiny or abuse she has. What makes this especially transparent as a misogynistic attack is that the whole line of concern over journalistic integrity in gaming isn't even focusing on the fucking games journalists, but on the woman they slept with.
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To take this a step further: the journalists who have received scrutiny and abuse are women, like Jenn Frank and Leigh Alexander, who are distantly and tangentially related to Quinn at best. The common element between them and Quinn isn't "they were all part of the same corruption scandal," it's "they're all outspoken women in the games industry."
 
Faiz said:
I understand this point of view but I think there's a difference in the way media is enjoyed between movies/music and games in that movies and music are far more universal.

Simply "liking" movies and music really doesn't need a label because nearly everyone likes movies and music. I've heard anecdotally of people who don't like one or the other, but it's like hearing about your cousin's girlfriend's ex roommate from college who totally loved peanut butter and dried cod sandwhiches with pickle relish. I've never met that person or anyone with that kind of experience and doubt the veracity of the claim.

Games, on the other hand, are different. You can't throw a rock without hitting someone who doesn't play games... Many, ponderously, proudly so. It's very polarizing in some respects. Given that, I think "gamer" still works as a term for "someone who plays games".

The caveat there is I think it definitely has a shelf life. As games become more and more commonplace, it's certainly on its way to losing any sort of meaning. I don't think we're there yet, but I understand why others might.

As a corollary, I think we've already reached that point with "gamer culture" (or more appropriately "gamer subculture"). As the generation who grew up with video games which defined "gamer culture" in the past now has children of their own, "gamers" now include vastly different generations with a much greater spectrum of language, norms, symbols, etc. to the point where there is no single "gamer culture". Some will say there never was, but that's probably a debate best left for another conversation.
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i actually think we're already far enough along that we can drop the term, maybe it was useful 5 years ago but i dont think it is anymore.
 
NichM said:
To take this a step further: the journalists who have received scrutiny and abuse are women, like Jenn Frank and Leigh Alexander, who are distantly and tangentially related to Quinn at best. The common element between them and Quinn isn't "they were all part of the same corruption scandal," it's "they're all outspoken women in the games industry."
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They sometimes interact with each other via tweets.

The twitter Femme-inati, if you will.
 
gaboumafou said:
So the only valid response is to disappear, just as those harassers want? Genius!
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To be honest, I think whatever response she gives will give the vocal minority the response they are looking for. If she 'disappears' then they have won, they shamed the bad lady into going away. If she fights back, she is adding fuel to the fire, it goes on and on. The thing that I noticed was that she suffers from depression, which will suffer badly from the constant abuse she is receiving from the section of the internet is hating her at the moment.
Why put yourself through it?
 
TsunamiOfSwagger said:
To be honest, I think whatever response she gives will give the vocal minority the response they are looking for. If she 'disappears' then they have won, they shamed the bad lady into going away. If she fights back, she is adding fuel to the fire, it goes on and on. The thing that I noticed was that she suffers from depression, which will suffer badly from the constant abuse she is receiving from the section of the internet is hating her at the moment.
Why put yourself through it?
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Speaking as someone who suffers through depression, I can say that if it were me, no matter what I did, I'd be completely miserable. So in that case, I'd choose the "fuck you, I'm not going anywhere approach".
 
I'm genuinely shocked that this whole thing has been going for a month, a fucking month! I mean I thought it was embarrassing when it started, but now I'm almost at a loss for words.
 
bodyofanamerican said:
Speaking as someone who suffers through depression, I can say that if it were me, no matter what I did. I'd be completely miserable. So in that case, I'd choose the "fuck you, I'm not going anywhere approach".
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Same here, I know what your going through. I'm glad your strong enough that you could put up with it. I would not be able too.
 
sn00zer said:
Current "Gamer culture" is such crap. Seems like its the result of profane twelve year olds on Xbox Live now being profane adults, who think games ar exclusive to them.
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That's one aspect of it. But It's also me, my siblings and friends hanging out talking about games or meeting up online to play some. We're all middle aged gamers with kids. We game with each other and our kids and always have.
 
Duane Cunningham said:
What's it to you? The person who made the lunch you ate today, the person who drew the design on the t-shirt you're wearing, the guy that cut your hair, the guy who made the music you just listened to and the woman who worked on the video game you play tonight ALL have some personal faults and habits you don't share or approve of. One is a litterbug, one is cheating on their significant other, one hasn't paid their taxes in years, one picks their teeth with their toenails, another one disagrees with you politically. Stop worrying about it.

note: exact hypotheticals may vary, but premise remains true.[/fakespoilertag]
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There is nothing in it for me. I don't feel the need to know every person's personal life. I came across this story by chance and I have opinions about it. I didn't direct my opinions to the persons in this story but I just feel disgust from the stories I have read. It's like reading a tabloid. The person on the cover doesn't need to know or care how I feel but I have every right to think if they are an asshole. It doesn't matter if it's a guy or girl or game developer or the president. If you cheat on your partner, you're a fucking asshole. And if somehow I'm exposed to your story, I will try my very best to not support you and your work.
 
All these pathetic people are the ones who have ruined gaming by shitting on any outspoken woman in the industry. Since the Bioware writer all the way up to now, it's just so sad. That stuff on Reddit is creepy as hell.

I've been disappointed by people I've followed before, fall right into this conspiracy pit. JonTron and Daniel Vavra (Kingdom Come: Deliverance) specifically, who are considered heroes by 4chan. It's annoying seeing these people hold onto this misguided #gamergate hashtag, posting captain obvious statements like they're not for the harassment and rather than actually discussing journalism ethics (there's a better hashtag #gamerethics which they call as a distraction), they make this #notyourshield and other war-like manifestos like "Operation Disrespectful Nod". These are not debates happening with respectful arguments and counterpoints being made, it's just strawman shouting. So I had to unfollow these people because it's not about journalism or industry issues and never was.

I'm just sort of glad that Tim Schafer, Neil Druckmann, and other notable people have supported Zoe and Anita, it's good to boost the positivity more.
 
TsunamiOfSwagger said:
To be honest, I think whatever response she gives will give the vocal minority the response they are looking for. If she 'disappears' then they have won, they shamed the bad lady into going away. If she fights back, she is adding fuel to the fire, it goes on and on. The thing that I noticed was that she suffers from depression, which will suffer badly from the constant abuse she is receiving from the section of the internet is hating her at the moment.
Why put yourself through it?
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To make people aware of that huge and awful problem. It must take a lot of courage, but I'm really glad to see she is still standing up.
 
see5harp said:
Wait there are people giving her money each month? For what?
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For her Patreon. If you aren't familiar, Patreon is a site where you can support the work of creative people as a dollar amount per month, like a patron. Zoe is currently getting under $3K a month, with 500+ patrons.
 
Damerman said:
a bit presumptuous and almost narcissistic to think you are the most hated person in the internet... even if you are being hyperbolic, no?
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AlucardGV said:
lol internet most hated person? talking about inflated ego, not even close
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It helps to actually read the article:

Editor's Note: A few weeks ago our message board and general inbox were bombarded with demands we address something called the "GamerGate Scandal", posts written with the urgency and rage one would associate with, say, discovering that Chipotle burritos are made entirely from the meat of human babies.
[...]
This kind of spontaneous shitstorm is depressingly common these days, so we reached out to Zoe Quinn to see what it's like to be the Internet's Most Hated Person (well, for a couple of weeks, anyway). Here's what she told us:
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The editor is labelling her that, using hyperbole as a rhetorical device. But don't let facts get in the way of calling her more names, right?
 
So is there any actual proof behind that blog post or w/e it was? Regardless of journalist ethics, I'm not really interested in someone else's sex life.
 
TheJohann said:
I'd like to respond to each of your points with my opinion.

Firstly, I do not see a problem with generalisations. They are useful and fundamental tools of discourse and logic. They are only a problem when they ignore certain contexts or nuances that may alter one's perspective of the topic. In my opinion, it is a fair generalisation to say that the medium of video games, on balance, is a largely backward one in many respects.
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Generalisations when you're attempting to speak to a community are poor form, and serve to alienate members of the community who disagree with you.

And you have every right to feel that video games are 'backwards', but that doesn't make it a fact.

I doubt that many people are saying that the video games community is literally made up entirely of white, misogynistic males. The point of this generalisation here is that some ideologies have predominance over others. The industry as a whole, from every stage of the supply chain, is therefore predominantly racist, misogynistic, and gender-normative. We can see this in the products, where white male protagonists have the most representation while female characters are reduced to tropes; we can see this in the development process, where female developers are discriminated against by co-workers or bosses and given fewer professional opportunities; we can see this in the audience, where the slightest sign of "politically correct" content in their video games is seen as a threat to the status quo, and where female gamers are disrespected in a number of ways in both online communities and single-player content.
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The bolded points require some serious proof. I've never heard of female developers being shunned within the industry.

If female developers are shunned within the industry, why are we not focusing on that? If this is true, that's a serious problem that can actually be addressed directly by activists, journalists, and 'critics'.

This generalisation does put people on the defensive, there is no doubt about that. Nobody likes being branded a racist, or a sexist. These are terms that people will immediately jump to deny without first considering it as a possibility, without considering that not all actions need to be malicious in order to be hurtful, or without considering that racism and sexism can be unconsciously propagated. Those who are critical will examine and reflect upon these accusations, and those who are stubborn will decry these as part of a "social justice warrior" epidemic. All of this is unfortunate – and perhaps there are ways to mitigate this, by framing these ideas in less hostile ways – but a message is ultimately only as successful as its receivers' ability to comprehend it.
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I fail to see how my actions of buying video games propagates racism and sexism.


Thirdly, if you are referring to the feminist movement, then I would heavily disagree that it has not effected change. It undeniably criticises, but I cannot think of a social movement in history that did not. I do not see criticism as a bad thing, either.
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I'm referring to third-wave feminism specifically. Critique works when there is a purpose and end goal behind it, but I have to yet see third-wave feminism act in a coherent manner. Its very nature of eschewing hierarchical structures means that leadership cannot be formed.

In looking at first and second wave feminism, there were clear goals (legal parity, wage parity, and individual rights) Those goals were worked towards and nearly achieved, although I believe more work needs to be done for the second-wave objectives.
 
Angelus Errare said:
Her actions? You mean telling people harassing her to fuck off? Yea how dare she tell people such things! That whore! *rolling eyes*
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I'm referring specifically to going back and forth between ignoring trolls, and fanning the flames. By giving people like this guy a larger audience by spreading his views.

I also liked who you assumed that I would call her a whore because I disagree with her. Like I said, her gender isn't part of the equation for me, and it's an anecdotal example of how everyone who disagrees with her is branded a misogynist (which is in the part you also quoted)

MrGerbils said:
I'm gonna be honest, just from your few junior posts on this forum so far, I already think you're also an asshole with a chip on their shoulder. Do you deserve to be doxxed? Infinite internet harassment?

You know how many assholes there are on GAF who think Japanese games suck? Or whatever else Phil Fish is supposedly guilty of?

Should everyone here be doxxed?

The whole internet is full of people who think their opinion is the one true correct opinion. Open up any Android or iOS thread and look at everyone calling everyone else braindead. The things Phil Fish has said on Twitter and elsewhere would make him an average GAF user. He's done nothing more than say some basic opinions. At very worst he deserves someone saying, "Hey, I disagree with you and here's why.." He has done nothing that deserves any level of harassment.
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I didn't say he deserves it. He's constantly tried to make himself something way bigger than he actually is. My personal opinion of the dude isn't a damning arbitration of his worth.
 
SparkPeople said:
I'm referring specifically to going back and forth between ignoring trolls, and fanning the flames. By giving people like this guy a larger audience by spreading his views.
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If denouncing harassers is "fanning the flames", then yeah, I guess that's still the right thing to do.
 
SolidsnackooFoxhound said:
I just want my games back without all the drama and politics.
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I'm a bit late on this comment, but it's one that I see quite frequently in this whole, ridiculous ordeal.

Apparently Zoe and the evil feminists took their games away.

But wait. All the games they own are still there. All the games that are available for purchase are still available for purchase. All the games in development are still in development.


Unless, of course, we're talking about the ownership of the game industry in a philosophical sense. The idea that it's some boys' club that caters exclusively to their narrow definition of "gamers". That change has been happening for a few years now, and lashing out at some "SJW"s isn't going to bring it back.
 
gaboumafou said:
If denouncing harassers is "fanning the flames", then yeah, I guess that's still the right thing to do.
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When the harassers are literally people who spam nonsensical messages at you calling you a "bitch cunt bitch whore" over and over from freshly created accounts, denouncing them doesn't do anything. They risk literally nothing by having their comments reproduced towards their target, and by extension her social group and gain more exposure for their views.

jstripes said:
Unless, of course, we're talking about the ownership of the game industry in a philosophical sense. The idea that it's some boys' club that caters exclusively to their narrow definition of "gamers". That change has been happening for a few years now, and lashing out at some "SJW"s isn't going to bring it back.
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I've never thought of the game industry as a 'boys club.' Then again, it's only recently that women have entered the fields of computer science and programming, and it takes time for the backlog of older programmers, and younger hires to enter the work force and make their way up over the years.

Of course, female programmers aren't going to do anything different than male programmers, considering that there is a right way and wrong way to code. I think the real area women are needed in gaming is in project management, and conceptual design. Those areas are where most of the influence lies.
 
jstripes said:
I'm a bit late on this comment, but it's one that I see quite frequently in this whole, ridiculous ordeal.

Apparently Zoe and the evil feminists took their games away.

But wait. All the games they own are still there. All the games that are available for purchase are still available for purchase. All the games in development are still in development.


Unless, of course, we're talking about the ownership of the game industry in a philosophical sense. The idea that it's some boys' club that caters exclusively to their narrow definition of "gamers". That change has been happening for a few years now, and lashing out at some "SJW"s isn't going to bring it back.
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Agreed. And that sentiment is always leveled even though we're on a forum where topics about the politics never beat out the amount just about games in general. If anyone wants to ignore the politics so badly, they have more than enough freedom to do so.
 
Reading the comments (I know, you should never read the comments), it's interesting how many people argue that, yeah, what's happened to her is terrible, but she's milking it for all she's worth. There's even a group of people who think there's a conspiracy where she's faking a bunch of the attacks on herself (or faking everything for exposure).

People are so calloused about stuff that happens online. There were people discussing jumping her at PAX and giving her a permanent injury (but drawing the line at anything that would cause brain damage). Of course she's talking about it. This would be so different if it was happening offline: "I mean, it's terrible that Cindy was raped, but man, she's been really milking that. Telling people about what happened, just throwing herself into the spotlight with all this anti-rape talk. She's clearly enjoying this whole thing. Which, again, doesn't make the fact that she was raped okay, but she's not entirely innocent, either." But no, this is an Internet Thing. These are Internet People. It's different, somehow.

In the Roman empire (stay with me, here), there was a law that said that if nobody heard a woman scream, it meant she wasn't really being raped--because if she wasn't screaming loud enough for someone to hear, it meant that she was secretly enjoying it--even if she didn't consent. But maybe the commenters are right. Maybe the fact that she openly talks and writes about it about it is evidence that she's just an attention whore who secretly enjoys this stuff. Because if she was really bothered by all this, she would have screamed louder.
 
SparkPeople said:
When the harassers are literally people who spam nonsensical messages at you calling you a "bitch cunt bitch whore" over and over from freshly created accounts, denouncing them doesn't do anything. They risk literally nothing by having their comments reproduced towards their target, and by extension her social group and gain more exposure for their views.
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No, you won't change their mind. But you might influence some one who is reading the whole debate who hasn't made up their mind... sometimes you respond to some one even when you know it's a hopeless cause so you can let other people see another viewpoint. The internet isn't just viewed between two people arguing at each other, other people are also watching/reading/listening in.
 
This thread is immensely useful for people looking to expand their blocked list. I don't really understand why the issue of this specific person being mean or a liar or whatever matters in the least. It's like starting a smear campaign against a director because he lies to his children. Even if it's true why would any sane person give a shit? It's all really bizarre and transparent.
 
Tigress said:
No, you won't change their mind. But you might influence some one who is reading the whole debate who hasn't made up their mind... sometimes you respond to some one even when you know it's a hopeless cause so you can let other people see another viewpoint. The internet isn't just viewed between two people arguing at each other, other people are also watching/reading/listening in.
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I see where you're coming from, but I disagree.
 
people are horrible, it's not just the internet. The internet just gives people a way to be more horrible without facing the consequences of being horrible IRL.
 
jay said:
This thread is immensely useful for people looking to expand their blocked list. I don't really understand why the issue of this specific person being mean or a liar or whatever matters in the least. It's like starting a smear campaign against a director because he lies to his children. Even if it's true why would any sane person give a shit? It's all really bizarre and transparent.
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Some guy I was arguing with on Twitter cracked had admitted it was "cathartic" for him to see Zoe and Anita get attacked by this horde. (But then he quickly went back to the "corruption" cover story.)
 
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