This. I don't have a Twitter account but if there's some place where we can make some noise (Miiverse? e-mail?) count me in
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50/60hz on the PAL Wii U eShop - Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Rich!
- Start date
This. I don't have a Twitter account but if there's some place where we can make some noise (Miiverse? e-mail?) count me in
Quite a few complaints were made about 50 Hz VC games in Europe over a year ago, but sadly it doesn't seem to have made any difference, judging by this.
Robin64
Member
That did lead to us getting some games at 60Hz, so it wasn't entirely pointless. I just wish Nintendo had gone all the way.
TheMoon
Member
Is there a list anywhere with all 50Hz VC games on Wii U btw? And do they also release the 50Hz versions of those games in Australia?
Did you forget the part where NoE's Großostheim HQ got shut down earlier this year?
No, I didn't and wondered about that, too, but according to their homepage that is still the delivery address. Maybe the post will be automatically redirected to their new address.
EDIT: sorry for double-posting. I wanted to edit the post above, but clicked accidentally on "Submit reply".
Robin64
Member
I may have missed some, but off the top of my head..
NES
Balloon Fight
Kirby's Adventure
Ufouria: The Saga
SNES
Donkey Kong Country 2
Harvest Moon
The Legend of The Mystical Ninja
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
Pop'n Twinbee
Pop'n Twinbee: Rainbow Bell Adventure
Super Metroid
I bought pal Super Metroid VC and it plays great. I don't notice these things though. Maybe if the two were running side by side I'd see it.
They should really offer an option to EU gamers which version they download. That would solve all the requirements. In fact offer it to US gamers as well.
They should really offer an option to EU gamers which version they download. That would solve all the requirements. In fact offer it to US gamers as well.
If you don't notice it, then I envy you. If you are ever to notice it on a game though, it would likely be DKC2. Because if the repeated frames, even if you don't fully register them, you may hit a jump that requires pixel perfection and the repeat frames may mean that you had actually ran off the platform before you hit jump.
In Link To The Past, it's annoying, but not crucial. It could be close to game breaking on this near the end.
Thanks! So many great games butchered with this shit for absolutely no reason. -.-
Robin64
Member
I noticed it instantly it Super Metroid, but then I'm pretty hardcore at that game.
Remember, it does lead to other bugs too.
Remember, it does lead to other bugs too.
Starwolf_UK
Member
Edit: I forgot to hit reply so this might be dated.
I've got an alternate line of attack. Since NOE take the brick wall approach of ignoring people to solve problems. I'm trying to reach out to Konami Europe instead. They have two 50Hz only SNES games on the service (both Twinbee related, no US release). Being a bit smaller they might be more interested in listening here and might be in more of a position to get Nintendo to do something. Especially if they hear that lots of people are being put off buying their game (or not happy with the game they bought) due to this.
Even if you have no use for a German translation you'll get a 50Hz version so that includes Australia.
Nearly all the affected games will say in their description at the bottom "This is the European version of the game..." (following with a bunch of bullcrap). Ufouria is the 50Hz exception while Donkey Kong Country is the 60Hz exception of having no nifo in their description of this.
I've got an alternate line of attack. Since NOE take the brick wall approach of ignoring people to solve problems. I'm trying to reach out to Konami Europe instead. They have two 50Hz only SNES games on the service (both Twinbee related, no US release). Being a bit smaller they might be more interested in listening here and might be in more of a position to get Nintendo to do something. Especially if they hear that lots of people are being put off buying their game (or not happy with the game they bought) due to this.
Basically all NES and SNES games that were translated into German (excluding Donkey Kong Country) or were released in English but only in Europe (e.g. Pop n' Twinbee, Ufouria).
Even if you have no use for a German translation you'll get a 50Hz version so that includes Australia.
Nearly all the affected games will say in their description at the bottom "This is the European version of the game..." (following with a bunch of bullcrap). Ufouria is the 50Hz exception while Donkey Kong Country is the 60Hz exception of having no nifo in their description of this.
TheMoon
Member
Harvest Moon?? I remember reading it was the US version.
Robin64
Member
The PR for it has "plays music at a speed similar to the US version".
Holy shit, similar speed?!?! SOLD
Jo Shishido's Cheeks
Member
This doesn't affect NES games on the 3DS does it?
Why not?
Why not?
TheMoon
Member
No, There are two PAL ROMs (EN/FR and EN/DE while the NTSC ROM is EN/FR) and they'd rather fuck over all of the PAL region instead of just fucking over a handful of countries within the PAL region.
matrix-cat
Member
DKC2 is 50Hz? Aw, come the fuck on, Nintendo. I cannot imagine what the fuck goes on in the PAL Virtual Console division of Nintendo. They have to just be trolling at this point, right? I mean, they absolutely know that people don't want any 50Hz games; they get shit about it on Twitter, Miiverse and articles on major websites, and they've even updated a few VC games. And this shit still happens.
Seriously, it should have taken one game. "Oh, people aren't happy about 50Hz? OK, let's fix that one and only upload the 60Hz ones from now on. I guess we'll make the 50Hz ones available for non-English speakers if they want them". That's it. All over. Problem solved.
Seriously, it should have taken one game. "Oh, people aren't happy about 50Hz? OK, let's fix that one and only upload the 60Hz ones from now on. I guess we'll make the 50Hz ones available for non-English speakers if they want them". That's it. All over. Problem solved.
Is the Super Metroid port really bad terrible? I was planning on picking it up very soon, but the way you describe the 50 and 60hz makes me feel uncomfortable to play an inferior version.
It suffers from all of that (want to wall jump? Youre gonna struggle) and even has glitches that no other version has, such as the wrecked ship music being a horrendous glitch filled mess.
TheMoon
Member
If nobody had told you about it, you likely would never even realize. Like me who played and finished the 30cent VC version in 2013 before I was made aware of the frame-doubling. Why are you gonna struggle with wall-jumping? Because wall-jumping in Super Metroid is the god damn devil, by design. Unless you're a SM wall jump master, you will fuck up just as often as someone playing on NTSC. The game is completely fine and playable and you will love it regardless unless you look up the exact flaws and obsess over them.
Was gonna play DKC2 via Retroarch instead, but it seems hard to set up and use. I don't get it at all.
What are you having trouble with? You have the newest version, right?
Robin64
Member
Yeah, just downloaded it from libretro.
I'm an idiot, I missed the cores download too.
I really wish a journalist would sit down with whoever is responsible for the PAL VC and do an in-depth interview.
First question them to see if they even understand the difference between 50Hz, 60Hz and 50Hz games ''running at 60Hz''.
-Why is there no choice between regional versions or better yet why doesn't the VC automatically include all regional versions? If they cite licensing issues, press them on specific examples.
-Why doesn't the Wii U output at 50Hz?
-Why are English speaking countries stuck with PAL versions? Especially puzzling in Australia's case.
If they start bullshitting about wanting people to play the games in their native language, ask them about Italy, Spain and other countries that mostly don't have translated versions. Also bring up Golden Sun, which is English only.
Specifically ask about the DKC mess and if the person in charge is a sadist.
EDIT: Forgot about the lack of GBC and Super Gameboy options.
EDIT2: No link cable support.
EDIT3: Extra lag when playing (S)NES games on the gamepad. Awful, non-optional filter for NES games.
First question them to see if they even understand the difference between 50Hz, 60Hz and 50Hz games ''running at 60Hz''.
-Why is there no choice between regional versions or better yet why doesn't the VC automatically include all regional versions? If they cite licensing issues, press them on specific examples.
-Why doesn't the Wii U output at 50Hz?
-Why are English speaking countries stuck with PAL versions? Especially puzzling in Australia's case.
If they start bullshitting about wanting people to play the games in their native language, ask them about Italy, Spain and other countries that mostly don't have translated versions. Also bring up Golden Sun, which is English only.
Specifically ask about the DKC mess and if the person in charge is a sadist.
EDIT: Forgot about the lack of GBC and Super Gameboy options.
EDIT2: No link cable support.
EDIT3: Extra lag when playing (S)NES games on the gamepad. Awful, non-optional filter for NES games.
TheMoon
Member
It's cute how you assume NOE would agree to such a predictably negative-skewing interview about something that isn't on their PR plan.^^
They could sugarcoat it and say they are doing an article about the preservation of old games for future generations and want to acknowledge Nintendo's contributions or something like that.
TheMoon
Member
Still a pipe dream. Just look at how rare Nintendo interviews are. Then look how much rarer NOE specific interviews are with anyone that isn't one of their top managers giving generic PR-hype interviews.
I would think SOMEONE has thought of this before. Granted, the most well known journos obsessed with retro games are US-based (Kohler, Parish) and probably don't think about PAL drama much.
well that issue, uniquely for Nintendo, makes perfect sense.
Emulating the Super Game Boy colours and borders isn't that big of an issue (homebrew on the DS/GBA has managed it), however the special SGB sound features require emulation of the SPC700 soundchip of the SNES and a few backend SNES routines.
So sure, on DK'94 you would have the colours and borders - but pauline's screams would be silent. And the end credits would have no music at all. Why? Because when put into a SGB, those sequences are SNES music and sounds, not Game Boy.
Including the SGB emulation for the sound too would be very nice, of course - but that's not what they are selling. They are selling the experience you originally had on the GB/GBC, and that they do very well. I have absolutely no issue with the VC on the 3DS apart from the lack of customizable controls and filters. The actual emulation itself is great.
It's not the same as this 50hz bullshit where they pretend they're giving us something equivalent or better than what we had in Europe 20 years ago but in fact it's actually far worse on the Wii U than ever before.
''This is the European version of the game, which was optimised originally by the developer to offer gameplay and music speed similar to the US version. Demos and animations may run at PAL speed. The aspect ratio has been corrected for this release.''
I wonder if the game description could be considered false advertising since they fail to mention that they are forcing the games to run at 60Hz by repeating frames thus any optimizations are meaningless. DKC 2 also had the correct aspect ratio in the initial release so they aren't correcting anything.
I feel like no one really cares about the PAL VC, or even VC in general. There were some articles when Wii U launched and we got the 1st 50Hz game and when F-Zero turned out to be 60Hz but I don't recall seeing anything noteworthy since then. Nothing about the missing features of the 3DS VC, no lag tests for the Wii U VC and I doubt anyone of note will write about this DKC mess and ask Nintendo for a comment.
I don't read gaming sites that much, so maybe I'm totally wrong here.
Super Gameboy is kind of a stretch, but not including the GBC color swaps is just lazy as they already have a working GBC emulator. Multiple borders in 1:1 mode would be nice too; really want the transparent Game Boy pocket one.
Also they seriously need an options menu. I don't get why they think that weird button combinations are better than a few simple taps on the touch screen. Really annoying when I want to play 1:1 and have to restart the software because I forgot to hold down Start/Select.
Still, I agree that this is definitely not as big of a problem as the 50Hz bullshit.
I wonder if the game description could be considered false advertising since they fail to mention that they are forcing the games to run at 60Hz by repeating frames thus any optimizations are meaningless. DKC 2 also had the correct aspect ratio in the initial release so they aren't correcting anything.
I feel like no one really cares about the PAL VC, or even VC in general. There were some articles when Wii U launched and we got the 1st 50Hz game and when F-Zero turned out to be 60Hz but I don't recall seeing anything noteworthy since then. Nothing about the missing features of the 3DS VC, no lag tests for the Wii U VC and I doubt anyone of note will write about this DKC mess and ask Nintendo for a comment.
I don't read gaming sites that much, so maybe I'm totally wrong here.
But why only give us the basic experience? And in truth it's not even that because they can't be bothered to emulate the link cable.
Super Gameboy is kind of a stretch, but not including the GBC color swaps is just lazy as they already have a working GBC emulator. Multiple borders in 1:1 mode would be nice too; really want the transparent Game Boy pocket one.
Also they seriously need an options menu. I don't get why they think that weird button combinations are better than a few simple taps on the touch screen. Really annoying when I want to play 1:1 and have to restart the software because I forgot to hold down Start/Select.
Still, I agree that this is definitely not as big of a problem as the 50Hz bullshit.
Rychu Supadude
Neo Member
Am I to understand that this is an issue that didn't exist with the Wii's emulation and has only been introduced for the U? Amazing.
I missed out on DKC2 on the Wii VC because I owned the GBA version at the time... the visual issues might not affect me as much as most other people, but it's hard not to be disheartened when Nintendo knows that something's not right and is actively trying to keep people from finding out about it.
There are always complaints and bitching from across the pond if a VC title happens to release in PAL before NTSC, but most of them swallow the pr lines about "optimisation" and fail to realise that there are serious differences and serious problems at play.
My deepest sympathies to anybody who has their enjoyment of an excellent game diminished or ruined by this nonsense.
I missed out on DKC2 on the Wii VC because I owned the GBA version at the time... the visual issues might not affect me as much as most other people, but it's hard not to be disheartened when Nintendo knows that something's not right and is actively trying to keep people from finding out about it.
There are always complaints and bitching from across the pond if a VC title happens to release in PAL before NTSC, but most of them swallow the pr lines about "optimisation" and fail to realise that there are serious differences and serious problems at play.
My deepest sympathies to anybody who has their enjoyment of an excellent game diminished or ruined by this nonsense.
Robin64
Member
Crimsonclaw111
Member
Lmao at the man baby meltdown at the end..
Ah, he deleted it out of anger. His last words were something along the lines of "you've all lost your right to talk to me".
Wii VC for SNES and NES was almost entirely Pal50, only the hanabii festival games were 60hz.
Of course, but the Wii actually ran in 50hz. Wii U doesnt and as such we get the frame repeating, incorrect adjusted sprite speeds and glitches that the Wii VC did not have.
DKC2 on the wii will be superior to DKC2 on Wii U. THAT is the issue here.
Robin64
Member
50Hz games on Wii were better than on Wii U. That right there is a damn shame and shouldn't be happening.
Amazing. And everyone was trying to explain to him the problems, too, not attack him or anything.
Amazing. And everyone was trying to explain to him the problems, too, not attack him or anything.
I have read the OP, and I was aware of the issues before.
So stop saying I am ignorant, please, because that is wrong.
I actually care about those issues a lot, and about their technical details.
The initial part of my post was aimed at those, complaiming about about the general issues of PAL-games, i.e.: the slowdown.
Aren't all (?) NES VC on 3DS the U.S. NTSC version emulated at 60hz?
One simple explanation:
more than one person is responsible.
That would also explain the DK Country on WiiU VC history.
Those countries were/are 50hz countries
Nintendo dropped the translations of Golden Sun?
EDIT: question:
What about Super Metroid played on Wii VC via Wii U?
Does it run at 50 hz?
especially when it is not related to 50/60hz issues?
Stuff like Golden Sun or Kirby's Adventure should be owned Nintendo all the way, so I don't see how rights issues could explain it.
As opposed to Landstalker for example, where 3 or 4 different companies were involved.
What about Super Metroid played on Wii VC via Wii U?
Does it run at 50 hz?
I added some text to my initial post. I hope it is clearer now.
Do we know why Nintendo is dropping some translations,
especially when it is not related to 50/60hz issues?
Stuff like Golden Sun or Kirby's Adventure should be owned Nintendo all the way, so I don't see how rights issues could explain it.
As opposed to Landstalker for example, where 3 or 4 different companies were involved.
Kirby's Adventure was translated way before Nintendo had any control over translations. I figure, they are not happy with the names in the German translation. Golden Sun is afaik the only originally translated GBA game on VC right now, of which a separate cartridge exists for every language it was translated into. Since Nintendo did outsource GBA emulation to a third party, I guess they've been instructed to only emulate one European version per game.