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[Keylime]

Random question:

How do you guys have so much knowledge of so many different headphones/amps/dacs?! Just about all of these products aren't available to actually try from what I can gather, which leads me to believe that there is either a way to determine what type of sound a set of cans will produce by internet hearsay and viewing the frequency response graphs...

...or you guys buy a FUCKLOAD of audio equipment.

 

[swoon]

In my experience DACs are probably the worst value for money when you get to a certain point in terms of SQ gain. After you get to the $400-500 mark the differences are pretty miniscule in terms of audio. I'm using a DacMagic at the moment (pretty modest $500 DAC) and its done a great job with my Burson/T1 combo.

Apparently the Burson is a fantastic match with the HD800s

i think they recently released a revision, but the o.g. dacmagic is pretty crappy - both in sound and build quality.

the only reason i haven't sold my dacmagic is because i'd have to buy a new power plug to list.

 

[LCfiner]

Random question:

How do you guys have so much knowledge of so many different headphones/amps/dacs?! Just about all of these products aren't available to actually try from what I can gather, which leads me to believe that there is either a way to determine what type of sound a set of cans will produce by internet hearsay and viewing the frequency response graphs...

...or you guys buy a FUCKLOAD of audio equipment.

some of it is reputation. some of it is actually trying out a bunch of different equipment (and then returning or reselling it

I don't think there's a wide variety of SQ differences between (well made) DACs so I would just recommend getting something that's built solid and has the features you want. eg; if you want to hook up 4 different inputs or if you want something with pre-amp functionality to control volume on external powered monitors.

The peachtree nova, mentioned last page, is a well respected all in one unit but might be overkill because a large part of the cost goes into the powered speaker outputs. If you're not powering large, passive speakers, you probably don't need something as big and expensive as the nova.

But if you do, then it's a good deal.

 

[Alucrid]

i think they recently released a revision, but the o.g. dacmagic is pretty crappy - both in sound and build quality.

the only reason i haven't sold my dacmagic is because i'd have to buy a new power plug to list.

I think after I buy a Rythmik F12 I'm going after the Rega dac that witchfinder (iirc) bought. You'd be surprised how much of a pain it is to find one with two optical inputs. :|

 

[TheExodu5]

Alright, so I think I'll be getting a Schiit Bitfrost as my DAC.

Now, the question is the amp. The runners up so far are the Schiit Asgard, and the Burson HA-160. Obviously I'd expect the Burson to be better, but we're talking about nearly 3x the price, so that's not surprising.

Decisions, decisions.

 

[LCfiner]

Alright, so I think I'll be getting a Schiit Bitfrost as my DAC.

Now, the question is the amp. The runners up so far are the Schiit Asgard, and the Burson HA-160. Obviously I'd expect the Burson to be better, but we're talking about nearly 3x the price, so that's not surprising.

Decisions, decisions.

I owned both those amps. I thought the Burson was worth the extra money. I was not really impressed with the Asgard. I thought it delivered sound very similar to the Fiio E9 when using my old RS2s and, at the time, an LCD2. With the Burson, I noticed much better bass and PRaT. the music seemed more dynamic and I remember some tricky electronic passages from the Tron Legacy soundtrack having more clarity with the Burson than with the older amps (it was the first mid/high end amp that I bought)

of course, if you come down on the side of the Burson, then I think it would be more economical to get the Burson Dac/amp model for an extra 200 dollars instead of spending 450 for the USB Bifrost and then another 700 of the Burson amp.

if you come down on the side of the Bifrost, you might want to consider the Lyr for the amp. tons of power to drive the K701.

 

[TheExodu5]

I'm avoiding the Burson DAC/Amp combo because of what they did to cut costs:

1) 4mm aluminum instead of 6mm aluminum
2) No galvanic isolation on USB
3) Cheaper power supply
4) Alps pot instead of their better stepped pot

I'll be keeping things discreet. The Bifrost has been ordered.

As for the Schiit Lyr...honestly, I'm apprehensive about ordering a tube amp. I have the Tubemagic D1, and I feel the tube sound is not nearly as good as solid state. It's overly warm, and hides a lot of detail. Piano might sound "organic", but it loses all sense of attack.

I also don't like the fact that you need to let them "warm up" for 10 minutes before you get the most out of your sound.

 

[LCfiner]

fair enough points. I see where you're coming from

I do think that if you can afford it, the Burson is worth the extra cost over the Asgard.

I don't think there will be an itch to upgrade the Burson for an incredibly long time. It can drive less efficient and pickier headphones down the line.

 

[TheExodu5]

My main fear with the Burson is the stepped pot...I wonder how big of a downside it is to not get to fine tune the volume.

 

[omgkitty]

Okay, so I have asked about IEM's several times now, but what I want keeps changing. My original limitation is that I wanted a mic, but that's really not that important to me. I'm graduating in about a week and will also (HOPEFULLY) start a full time job. Also with it being Christmas, this is the perfect time to buy myself a good gift.

I want some IEM's around the $100 to $200 range. I need something that is durable with good isolation and minimal leakage. If I can't get durable, I want something with a great warranty as I know several companies have no-ask swap policies. I already own the TMA-1's like most people know, and they are awesome for what I normally listen to. This includes mostly indie rock/pop, electronic, IDM, EDM, dance, some hip-hop/rap, and also some classical/jazz. I wan't something with a different sound signature. I know the TMA-1's are dark and more focused in certain areas. I am not really a huge bass head. I enjoy my bass to a certain degree and I enjoy the sort of preciseness the TMA's give me. I've looked at certain headphones, even heavily contemplating the Brainwavz B2's for a while, but I am not 100% sure dual armature is for me. I have never actually heard any however, so I can't really comment. Also looking at the Vsonic Gr07, but I don't really know anything about them. I also should be getting an Fiio e10 soon, so everything in general should sound more awesome.

 

[swoon]

I think after I buy a Rythmik F12 I'm going after the Rega dac that witchfinder (iirc) bought. You'd be surprised how much of a pain it is to find one with two optical inputs. :|

yea it's a huge pain. i ended up changing my whole system around at some point to avoid that. i have an audio g-d that uses some nos chips, but i'd go with the rega if i was buying today.

after i settled on speakers, i haven't even thought about upgrading any part of my system, which is pretty nice i guess.

 

[swoon]

My main fear with the Burson is the stepped pot...I wonder how big of a downside it is to not get to fine tune the volume.

i haven't used the burson for long periods of time, but i like stepped pots because it's easier to volume check between channels/sources and don't sound as noisy.

doesn't the burson have 24 steps, there's surely one that would meet yr volume requirements

 

[LordCanti]

Audio-GAF, I have a conundrum. I need to pick a custom IEM color and one color artwork by the end of the day, if I want my CIEM's back by Christmas.

What do I do? Black with the yellow batman logo? Blue with superman? I have no original ideas GAF, help me ;_;

......it must be the end of the world for you. Go Batman.

Company doing the reshelling sprung it on me that I needed to ship them out today. I'm horribly unprepared. My usual method would have been to stew all weekend over the decision, but that method is lost to me now. These things are going to be in my ears for years, so the thought of picking something dorky or stupid is giving me the shakes.

There's nothing stupid or dorky about Batman though, I guess. He's in a mainstream movie now...

 

[omgkitty]

Audio-GAF, I have a conundrum. I need to pick a custom IEM color and one color artwork by the end of the day, if I want my CIEM's back by Christmas.

What do I do? Black with the yellow batman logo? Blue with superman? I have no original ideas GAF, help me ;_;

......it must be the end of the world for you. Go Batman.

 

[TheExodu5]

Damnit...looks like Bryston is releasing a headphone amp. Hmmmmmmmm......

My dad can get Bryston gear near cost. I wonder if it would be worthwhile.

 

[Dynamite Ringo Matsuri]

Audio-GAF, I have a conundrum. I need to pick a custom IEM color and one color artwork by the end of the day, if I want my CIEM's back by Christmas.

What do I do? Black with the yellow batman logo? Blue with superman? I have no original ideas GAF, help me ;_;
...

White, Nerv logo. Alternatively, pink, Hello Kitty. C'mon, you know you wanna

 

[LordCanti]

White, Nerv logo. Alternatively, pink, Hello Kitty. C'mon, you know you wanna

I've considered the Nerv logo. Also the Neo Zeon logo, Atomsk's logo from FLCL, Amuro's logo from Gundam, and a few others.

This is going to be a stressful day as I stare at the options.

 

[Alucrid]

White, Nerv logo. Alternatively, pink, Hello Kitty. C'mon, you know you wanna

I second the NERV logo. It's nerdy, but not so mainstream that everyone will know what it is and spot it easily like batman and superman, but those who do get it will be all, "Badass son."

 

[omgkitty]

What headphones can you get designs like these on?

 

[LordCanti]

What headphones can you get designs like these on?

Custom in ear monitors. Someone mocked up the Batman ones seen below.

Other logo options:

 

[omgkitty]

Custom in ear monitors. Someone mocked up the Batman ones seen below.

Oh THOSE headphones....how much were they if I may ask? I know they are hella expensive.

 

[LordCanti]

Oh THOSE headphones....how much were they if I may ask? I know they are hella expensive.

I paid $95 for a pair of Ultimate Ears Triple Fi 10's on Black Friday (during the Amazon deal). Reshelling is $90 + a $30 cable, and the impression material cost me $20. With shipping mmm....

$250?

 

[omgkitty]

I paid $95 for a pair of Ultimate Ears Triple Fi 10's on Black Friday (during the Amazon deal). Reshelling is $90 + a $30 cable, and the impression material cost me $20. With shipping mmm....

$250?

Oh okay...I was thinking of something else. How are they? They are only $157 on Amazon right now. Since no one else will answer my question, these look awesome.

 

[LordCanti]

Oh okay...I was thinking of something else. How are they? They are only $157 on Amazon right now. Since no one else will answer my question, these look awesome.

Before getting them reshelled (into the customs seen above, which are made to fit your ear exactly) they are uncomfortable as hell. They sound fantastic though. They have slightly recessed mids (which makes some vocals recede into the back in the mix) but they make up for it with incredible highs and really controlled lows.

You were thinking of the right thing, just from a different company. Custom IEM's that aren't reshells (where they take the guts of a universal fit IEM like the TF10 and put it in a custom made shell to fit your ears) start at around $400, and go into the thousands.

 

[Alucrid]

Custom in ear monitors. Someone mocked up the Batman ones seen below.

Is the first one unicorn gundam? second gurren laggan? I know the other two.

 

[LordCanti]

Is the first one unicorn gundam? second gurren laggan? I know the other two.

First is Amuro's logo from Gundam: Char's Counterattack. Second is Atomsk's logo from FLCL.

More Options:

 

[Alucrid]

First is Amuro's logo from Gundam: Char's Counterattack. Second is Atomsk's logo from FLCL.

herp derp. I even had an action figure Amuro's Gundam from that show as a kid. I also don't know how I forgot that from FLCL, damn...

 

[Geneijin]

Random question:

How do you guys have so much knowledge of so many different headphones/amps/dacs?! Just about all of these products aren't available to actually try from what I can gather, which leads me to believe that there is either a way to determine what type of sound a set of cans will produce by internet hearsay and viewing the frequency response graphs...

...or you guys buy a FUCKLOAD of audio equipment.

It's a combination of experience and knowing what sound you're looking for. Once you have that, it's easy to shop for headphones you know you'll like from impressions. It's all about that first jump.

 

[LordCanti]

Alright, I'm down to the following. I'm thinking solid white plate (the portion that can be seen when in the ear), with translucent red everything else (for all of them except laughing man, which would be blue):

Saint George's Cross (Flag of England):


Nerv logo


Laughing Man Logo (without words, excuse the shitty photoshopping)


Amuro's Logo from Char's Counterattack


Or the batman one previously posted. What say you?

 

[davidcotton]

Audio-GAF, I have a conundrum. I need to pick a custom IEM color and one color artwork by the end of the day, if I want my CIEM's back by Christmas.

What do I do? Black with the yellow batman logo? Blue with superman? I have no original ideas GAF, help me ;_;

One for left one for right maybe?

 

[Dynamite Ringo Matsuri]

NERV or the Gundam one. They both look crazy badass. I thought about reshelling my SM3s but then I like being able to share them with others. If the cable fails on me one day, it'll be the first thing I look to though... Even though the cable is the same type they use in customs (stupid V2 revision) :l But yeah, definitely NERV son. All's Right With the World. I actually had the logo and the digits "02" custom embroidered on one of my scrubs. No one recognizes it lol

 

[TheExodu5]

Awesome looking logo.

 

[LordCanti]

NERV or the Gundam one. They both look crazy badass. I thought about reshelling my SM3s but then I like being able to share them with others. If the cable fails on me one day, it'll be the first thing I look to though... Even though the cable is the same type they use in customs (stupid V2 revision) :l But yeah, definitely NERV son. All's Right With the World. I actually had the logo and the digits "02" custom embroidered on one of my scrubs. No one recognizes it lol

Those were the two I was leaning toward. I think big chunky crosses would look odd in my ears, and there is no way they can get the laughing man logo right (with all those words). The NERV logo and Gundam logo are perfect. I doubt they'd do the wording on the NERV one though.

Maybe I could get the logo on the front, and then "God's in his heaven" on the left underside, and "All's right with the world" on the right underside.

Awesome looking logo.

I agree. I think I'm going to discuss which one would fit better with the reshelling company.

Thanks guys.

One for left one for right maybe?

I....I like the cut of your jib.

I wonder if they'd charge me extra for that.

 

[TheExodu5]

Alright. So this is what I have coming in:

AKG K702 (~$300)
Schiit Bifrost DAC w/ USB (~$450)
Buron HA-160 Head Amp (~$700)

Might end up paying taxes and duties...we'll see.

I've obviously spent way more on the source and amp that I needed, but I know the AKGs benefit from a good source and amp, so at least it's not a complete waste. I figure the DAC/amp combo should be able to handle higher end headphones like the HD800 no problem if I decide to get something else in the future.

It's definitely more than I was expecting to spend, but I'm feeling good about my purchase.

 

[LordCanti]

Alright. So this is what I have coming in:

AKG K702 (~$300)
Schiit Bifrost DAC w/ USB (~$450)
Buron HA-160 Head Amp (~$700)

Might end up paying taxes and duties...we'll see.

I've obviously spent way more on the source and amp that I needed, but I know the AKGs benefit from a good source and amp, so at least it's not a complete waste. I figure the DAC/amp combo should be able to handle higher end headphones like the HD800 no problem if I decide to get something else in the future.

It's definitely more than I was expecting to spend, but I'm feeling good about my purchase.

I set price limits on myself so that stuff like that doesn't happen to me. If I'm happy with these custom IEM's, I may just sell off my K701's to offset what I spent.

I'm in something in -> something out mode right now.

I'm sure that combo is going to be epic though.

 

[TheExodu5]

The K701 and HA-160 should be great from what I'm hearing. Hopefully the DAC is good. Not much word out there on it. Still, it's a simple DAC (no unnecessary features) that supports 24/192, which is more than I can say for any other DAC in the <$500 bracket.

edit: from the few impressions I can read, sounds like the Bitfrost has good soundstage and attack, and doesn't color the sound at all. Sounds good to me!

 

[Keylime]

OK, doing a bit of research on DAC/Amps since I'm trying to really understand what this magical black box I have is actually doing to the sound.

So if I'm reading this right, basically the DAC is an audio processor that converts the digital file into an analog output for the headphones, and the higher quality the DAC, the better analog output and the better reproduction of the original track.

The amp will just provide a more powerful and cleaner analog signal through to the headphones. This allows cans with high impedance to be able to output the volume required (due to the added power) and output a cleaner analog signal as well. Cans with lower impedance will just get the benefit of the cleaned up analog signal.

...

What I don't fully understand is where the FiiO L3 cable comes in. I get that it pulls the audio directly out the player which is apparently a "clean" way of getting audio into the amp instead of through 3.5mm to 3.5mm. But that's it I take it? The DAC isn't used in any capacity unless it's hooked up via USB to a source that can recognize it as an audio output?

So using my L3 cable + E7 portable amp on the go, I'm basically getting super clean audio allowing me to hear more detail than I could previously, but not benefiting from the DAC.

When using the E7 as a DAC/Amp connected to my computer, I'm getting enhanced audio processing in addition to the cleaned up audio resulting in the best audio experience.

...

Did I get that right?

 

[jokkir]

How much better is the sound quality when you do the foam mod on the HD555/HD558?

I'm thinking of doing it...

Also, if you do the mod and unmod it, would they know you modded it?

 

[strikeselect]

Got my M50s today and I absolutely LOVE how balanced the sound is. Every genre of music sounds great on these.

 

[PflargBlarg]

The K701 and HA-160 should be great from what I'm hearing. Hopefully the DAC is good. Not much word out there on it. Still, it's a simple DAC (no unnecessary features) that supports 24/192, which is more than I can say for any other DAC in the <$500 bracket.

edit: from the few impressions I can read, sounds like the Bitfrost has good soundstage and attack, and doesn't color the sound at all. Sounds good to me!

The Little Dot DAC_1 supports 24/192 and it's only $260. I think you've made a good choice though.

 

[TheExodu5]

OK, doing a bit of research on DAC/Amps since I'm trying to really understand what this magical black box I have is actually doing to the sound.

So if I'm reading this right, basically the DAC is an audio processor that converts the digital file into an analog output for the headphones, and the higher quality the DAC, the better analog output and the better reproduction of the original track.

The amp will just provide a more powerful and cleaner analog signal through to the headphones. This allows cans with high impedance to be able to output the volume required (due to the added power) and output a cleaner analog signal as well. Cans with lower impedance will just get the benefit of the cleaned up analog signal.

...

What I don't fully understand is where the FiiO L3 cable comes in. I get that it pulls the audio directly out the player which is apparently a "clean" way of getting audio into the amp instead of through 3.5mm to 3.5mm. But that's it I take it? The DAC isn't used in any capacity unless it's hooked up via USB to a source that can recognize it as an audio output?

So using my L3 cable + E7 portable amp on the go, I'm basically getting super clean audio allowing me to hear more detail than I could previously, but not benefiting from the DAC.

When using the E7 as a DAC/Amp connected to my computer, I'm getting enhanced audio processing in addition to the cleaned up audio resulting in the best audio experience.

...

Did I get that right?

In my experience cables really don't do much at all, if anything, to the sound.

Using your E7 as a DAC, you're most likely getting better audio, assuming its DAC is superior to the one in your PC.

That being said, the differences DACs and amps make, in my experience, are not nearly as profound as some would have you believe. A better amp will likely result in tighter/punchier bass (unless you're coloring it with tubes), and a better DAC will likely result in more clarity and separation. These differences are usually pretty subtle, but once you get accustomed to the changes, they can make or break the sound for you.

When I was auditioning DACs with my dad over the weekend (with his B&W 800 Diamond system), there was one particular moment that was truly striking to me. It was when he played a percussion track (Sheffield drum track), which I had heard countless times before. When played on the Weiss 202, through his speakers, it was the first time I ever experienced a truly live feeling. I could picture the drums in front of me perfectly. It was quite the ear opening experience for me. Oddly enough, going to another similarly expensive DAC couldn't reproduce what I felt with that DAC. It was strange, and somewhat saddening. At best, I could say the differences were subtle, but it was the difference in between uncanny valley and reality.

 

[chrisisawesome]

The K701 and HA-160 should be great from what I'm hearing. Hopefully the DAC is good. Not much word out there on it. Still, it's a simple DAC (no unnecessary features) that supports 24/192, which is more than I can say for any other DAC in the <$500 bracket.

edit: from the few impressions I can read, sounds like the Bitfrost has good soundstage and attack, and doesn't color the sound at all. Sounds good to me!

I always loved the way the akg k70x series looked and was about to get them. I ended up buying the dt990's because they apparently have more bass, although less of a soundstage. Looking forward to impressions!

 

[Waikis]

Random question:

How do you guys have so much knowledge of so many different headphones/amps/dacs?! Just about all of these products aren't available to actually try from what I can gather, which leads me to believe that there is either a way to determine what type of sound a set of cans will produce by internet hearsay and viewing the frequency response graphs...

...or you guys buy a FUCKLOAD of audio equipment.

Go to local head-fi meet. I was fortunate enough to be able to heard HE60 in a recent local meet.

Also i'm still rocking my paradisea 2 DAC which have served me well after all these years.
My rig is now paradisea > zana deux > hd800.
I just upgraded the power cable to zu birth cable as well and it DOES make a difference guys.

 

[TheExodu5]

The Little Dot DAC_1 supports 24/192 and it's only $260. I think you've made a good choice though.

While the Little Dot does support 24/192, it only does so through SPDIF. Through USB, it only supports 16/48 (this is a pretty huge downside, seeing as it can't even handle CD's native format 16/44.1...I wonder if that's a mistake on the spec page).:

http://www.littledot.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=814

Most USB DACs I've seen only support 24/96 over USB. This is because they use the built-in Windows USB 1.1 Audio driver. Even the Bryston BDA-1 only supports 24/96 over USB. To support 24/192, they actually need a custom USB 2.0 Audio driver. In the case of the Schiit Bifrost, they appear to be using a C Media USB interface, who's manufacturer supplies a USB 2.0 Audio driver.

I just upgraded the power cable to zu birth cable as well and it DOES make a difference guys.

Considering you're just adding a few feet of high end power cable to meters upon meters of cheap cabling in your walls, I'm skeptical (though I won't discount the possibility).

Still, you're right...go to a local meet and try stuff out for yourself. I need to take your advice...I do way too many blind purchases!

 

[Keylime]

Thanks for the info gents. I'll have to see what these HeadFi meetups are about. I'm a bit worried that I'm going to end up re-buying all my music on CD, ripping it all to lossless, buying a dedicated home DAC/AMP system to power some crazy headphones and end up like 20K in the hole to live in audio nirvana.

My wife and wallet will hate me, methinks...

 

[chrisisawesome]

Thanks for the info gents. I'll have to see what these HeadFi meetups are about. I'm a bit worried that I'm going to end up re-buying all my music on CD, ripping it all to lossless, buying a dedicated home DAC/AMP system to power some crazy headphones and end up like 20K in the hole to live in audio nirvana.

My wife and wallet will hate me, methinks...

Maybe this'll cheer you up: you'll hit the point of diminishing returns much before that price range. I pretty much use: pc-->optical to astro mixamp--> dt990 and it's outstanding.
I can't see myself buying anything else and hearing a monstrous difference. The next set I'm going to buy, in a long time, are the denon d7000!

 

[sixteen-bit]

Awesome looking logo.

Gundam logo is hot but careful you're not mistaken for a brony!

 

[kevm3]

Not a great idea to cheap out on DACs. They don't all sound the same and can make a significant difference in sound quality, especially as you get more revealing equipment. DAC is one area where I enjoy having tubes in the system... DAC and preamps, even though I have a passive preamp at the moment.

Go to local head-fi meet. I was fortunate enough to be able to heard HE60 in a recent local meet.

Also i'm still rocking my paradisea 2 DAC which have served me well after all these years.
My rig is now paradisea > zana deux > hd800.
I just upgraded the power cable to zu birth cable as well and it DOES make a difference guys.

Yes, cabling definitely does make a difference. Power cords and interconnects as well.

 

[TheExodu5]

Maybe this'll cheer you up: you'll hit the point of diminishing returns much before that price range. I pretty much use: pc-->optical to astro mixamp--> dt990 and it's outstanding.
I can't see myself buying anything else and hearing a monstrous difference. The next set I'm going to buy, in a long time, are the denon d7000!

You're definitely going to want better amping at some point. The Astro mixamp is nice for, well, mixing, but sonically I don't like it very much. It's also got massive shielding issues...if I turn up the volume much I get some pretty clear noise (I have both a cordless phone and Wi-Fi router in my room).

Then again, if you're actually using the Astro for its mixing or Dolby Headphone feature, I guess there's not much to be done.

 

[mr2xxx]

Whats Gaf's opinion on the JDLabs altoid cmoy amp? I have a set of UE triple fii and a set of the Koss DJ 100s. Is that amp worth getting, or any other amp under 100?