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$500 cans on, this is how you dream right - Official Headphone Thread

That's actually a pretty good evolution on Des' OP which just lists phones by type and price tier. It's too bad he isn't still around, he has a lot of experience with many of the budget phones. There are some really interesting looking budget phones popping up on head fi lately. There was a pair of gaming iems that are allegedly rebadged AT CK99s or something. $200 phones for $25? I'm intrigued enough to possibly bite even if I can't see them getting much use. Anyway, it's too bad we don't have anyone like Bangraman or Muppetface here on GAF to contribute. Those two have seemingly owned every damned phone worth hearing on the face of the earth.
 

Helmholtz

Member
Hey guys, I'm a noob with audio stuff so maybe somebody can help me out...
I'm planning on getting m50s, and 90% of the use would be for listening to music/games on my desktop PC. Would I be okay with just plugging them into my PC, or should I consider getting an amp with them? Are the fiio amps worth bothering with, even though I don't really need portability? Is there some sort of non-portable amp I should look into? I wouldn't want to spend more than like, $70 on one, so would it even be worth it? If the increase in audio quality would be substantial I'd definitely be interested.
Thanks :p
 
Hey guys, I'm a noob with audio stuff so maybe somebody can help me out...
I'm planning on getting m50s, and 90% of the use would be for listening to music/games on my desktop PC. Would I be okay with just plugging them into my PC, or should I consider getting an amp with them? Are the fiio amps worth bothering with, even though I don't really need portability? Is there some sort of non-portable amp I should look into? I wouldn't want to spend more than like, $70 on one, so would it even be worth it? If the increase in audio quality would be substantial I'd definitely be interested.
Thanks :p


Lots of debate about this on this thread. I'm perfectly fine plugging my M50s into my laptop and I don't feel I need an amp - it's plenty loud and I can use software equalization. The only thing about the M50s is that they are closed circumaural - so they are great for music but can feel kind of "claustrophobic" for games and movies. Open headphones generally are better for environmental reproduction.
 

Helmholtz

Member
Lots of debate about this on this thread. I'm perfectly fine plugging my M50s into my laptop and I don't feel I need an amp - it's plenty loud and I can use software equalization. The only thing about the M50s is that they are closed circumaural - so they are great for music but can feel kind of "claustrophobic" for games and movies. Open headphones generally are better for environmental reproduction.
Music is my primary concern, so that sounds good. I might just go without an amp and see how it is to start. Thanks
 

Septimius

Junior Member
I think only leng jai has used the T1 with a woo amp. But I think it's the wa2.

You might have better luck searching head fi for impressions of those amps with various high end headphones.

What would you say the DAC's role is in all of this? As I previously mentioned, I'm guessing I have a comparatively good DAC in my sound interface, which costs 250$ - are there any big objections to using it with a Woo Audio and T1? We're already top notch, so I'd sort of want top notch with DAC, but my degree in IT tells me it shouldn't be too hard to make a good DAC.
 

davepoobond

you can't put a price on sparks
just got a pair of Logitech G35 headphones with a mic attached. its pretty ace.

the functionality isnt that great on a mac though, but it serves its purpose
 

Ashhong

Member
Hey guys, I'm a noob with audio stuff so maybe somebody can help me out...
I'm planning on getting m50s, and 90% of the use would be for listening to music/games on my desktop PC. Would I be okay with just plugging them into my PC, or should I consider getting an amp with them? Are the fiio amps worth bothering with, even though I don't really need portability? Is there some sort of non-portable amp I should look into? I wouldn't want to spend more than like, $70 on one, so would it even be worth it? If the increase in audio quality would be substantial I'd definitely be interested.
Thanks :p

The Fiio E10 would probably be good for you
 

Ashhong

Member
Thanks for the recommendation. Do you think the E10 would provide the best SQ for m50's when used with my desktop PC? Is E11 more for portable devices?

The E10 is a DAC so it will give you the best sound from your PC out of the other Fiio products. The E11 is a portable amp, but would sound good from your PC also. However I don't think you can use the E11 while charging. A few M50 owners on here will tell you they don't even need any amp or anything. I strongly disagree. I guess it all depends on what kind of sound you prefer.
 

Helmholtz

Member
The E10 is a DAC so it will give you the best sound from your PC out of the other Fiio products. The E11 is a portable amp, but would sound good from your PC also. However I don't think you can use the E11 while charging. A few M50 owners on here will tell you they don't even need any amp or anything. I strongly disagree. I guess it all depends on what kind of sound you prefer.
Cool, good advice, thanks. If I get an amp I'll probably go with the E10, sounds like it's up my alley.
 

pax217

Member
That's actually a pretty good evolution on Des' OP which just lists phones by type and price tier. It's too bad he isn't still around, he has a lot of experience with many of the budget phones. There are some really interesting looking budget phones popping up on head fi lately. There was a pair of gaming iems that are allegedly rebadged AT CK99s or something. $200 phones for $25? I'm intrigued enough to possibly bite even if I can't see them getting much use. Anyway, it's too bad we don't have anyone like Bangraman or Muppetface here on GAF to contribute. Those two have seemingly owned every damned phone worth hearing on the face of the earth.

Yeah, that's more-or-less what I was going for. I need to spend some more time on Head-Fi to help evolve the spreadsheet.
 

Vox-Pop

Contains Sucralose
The m50s are nice. The isolation is really good, though I can hear myself breathing which I hate. The clamp is very hard though, trying to stretch these out atm. I do wish they were louder.

Compared to other headphones, I really like the padding. The sound is ok, but I deferentially prefer open vs closed.
 

Septimius

Junior Member
The E10 is a DAC so it will give you the best sound from your PC out of the other Fiio products. The E11 is a portable amp, but would sound good from your PC also. However I don't think you can use the E11 while charging. A few M50 owners on here will tell you they don't even need any amp or anything. I strongly disagree. I guess it all depends on what kind of sound you prefer.

I'm not trying to work against you here - I've come to understand you're a big fan of the amp you have. So the following is not meant as anything but discussion. I still don't get how a run of the mill amp can improve on the sound. Say you have this setup:

iPhone -> amp -> headphones

then, the iPhone will output sound in its way due to its DAC. If you then plug that straight into the headphones, some of its frequencies will be emphasized over others due to the headphones frequency response - some headphones are heavier on bass etc - the main point with an amp is when you have "professional" headphones that have a high input impedance that needs more power to have the same loudness, and your iPhone (etc) doesn't have enough output power to play the material loud enough.

The idea that an amp can make something sound better, just from the way it works (not including tube amps that give certain inexorable qualities to the things it amplifies), it can never make anything sound better, because it takes the input voltage and amplifies it. What does that mean technically? The variation of voltage is what gives a tone. If the voltage in on a headphone variates as a sine wave from 1 mV to -1 mV 440 times per second, you'll have a 440Hz tone.

Now put that tone (-1 to 1mV) and put it through an amp. The amp will merely take every "momentary" voltage and multiply it (there's no momentary, because it's not discrete, since we're talking analogue electronics) - so that means when we measure 0.5mV on the original input, it'll be upped to, say, 1mV if you have a 2x amplification. This means the input will variate from -2 to 2mV, but still at 440Hz. The tone is exactly the same, but it just has a bigger voltage variation. An ideal amplification does exactly that, always. Ideal here means to describe an electrical system in which all conditions are ideal, and everything works in a theoretical ideal - people say tube amps are better, not because they're the closest to ideal, but because the way tubes work works its mojo on the stuff it amplifies, and thus make it sound more "organic" and such.

Often you'll hear the argument that you need an amp to properly drive you headphones. This doesn't mean that lower volumes will be driven better, because low volume is still low volume. What it means is that the headphones were made to work in a certain loudness - it's possible that frequency response works in a non-linear way for the various frequencies at various input power - that means if something is played at a low volume, the bass may drop off because it's simply lower than the mids at such a low volume.

Then take this scenario. You plug your headphones into your iPhone (or what have you), and you crank the volume all the way up. The way it sounds now should be exactly the same as dropping the volume to 50% and then getting the last loudness by amplifying it by 2x, because an amplifier should merely amplify.

If an amplifier does more than that, it changes the characteristics of the sound. This would be a nightmare amplifier to me. I want as neutral sounding tonal characteristics as possible. If my amp changes the frequency response, ie adding more bass, I wouldn't be happy. Even if the intent was that the ones making it know that most headphones drop off in certain frequencies at certain volumes and compensate, it'd still be a completely individual thing for each and every headphone, so unless it was made for my headphones, it's not doing the right thing, to me at least. Of course, if you feel the M50s aren't bass heavy enough and your amp rectifies that, then that's great, but my ideal world is one where sound is input directly into the brain, so we can hear it exactly the way it was produced. I fear most professional productions out there produce their music in a way that suits the characteristics of the most popular headphones, meaning someone like me with pretty neutral headphones will be left back with a song not sounding the way it was intended. Then again, I know house and rap overdoes its bass already, so I don't see the point of having headphones that further overdoes that.

This complicates things, but I have to take things at face value and say that the way something comes out of a studio is the way it was meant to be heard un-equalized. Headphones that are heavy on bass works against this, and I don't feel I'm in any position to say that "my favourite band doesn't know how to mix, and it needs more bass" - which is why I'm sticking to neutral.

All the above is pretty much rambling about the theoretical aspects of amplifications. Maybe there's some mojo to most amps out there that can make something sound better for some reason? In that case, I'd love to hear how and what. Let's not forget that an amp cannot improve clarity, as clarity often comes from build quality of the headphones, and the actual weight of the drivers in the elements, and how fast they can move back and forth to produce a sound - faster is better since they can stop exactly when it should, not some milliseconds later.

Also, it scares me how loud some people listen to music. I have a pair of 250 Ohm headphones that are loud enough with my iPhone. Sure, there are some crowded situations where it's a tad too little, but amp'ing 32 Ohm M50s due to lack of loudness? No wonder people are ruining their ears at a young age.
 
Sure, there are some crowded situations where it's a tad too little, but amp'ing 32 Ohm M50s due to lack of loudness? No wonder people are ruining their ears at a young age.
I wish I understood the rest of your post, but at 32 or 38 Ohms, do I not really need anything more (than the 3.5mm headphone jack on the computer) to drive the M50s?
 

Septimius

Junior Member
I wish I understood the rest of your post, but at 32 or 38 Ohms, do I not really need anything more (than the 3.5mm headphone jack on the computer) to drive the M50s?

Around 35 Ohm impedance, it takes very little power to make it really loud. You shouldn't need an amp from your computer, as any computer should have more than enough power to create the loudness you need. Some people will say amps still are beneficial to the sound of your headphones, but I can't sign off on that unless it's a tube amp, which are easily 500$ and not worth it unless your headphones cost even more. This is just the way I feel about it. It seems amp sales have gone through the roof the last years, and I think a lot of it is due to the fact that we've all been convinced we need an amp. I know I won't need an amp unless I have 600 Ohm headphones.

M50s are good. Their low impedance should mean any smartphone can blow your ears off at max volume. I know what amps can do, and I know what amps can't. To me, amps can only emphasize bass or mids or highs, they can't change the quality of the sound you put into them. I don't mind someone telling me different, but I need more than "they sound so much better through an amp" to get behind the idea. I just tested my DT 880s playing the same song through my sound-interface on my PC, my iPhone and my TV. Three hugely different "amps" and DACs (that's Digital to Analogue Converter - the thing that makes voltage from the digital input it gets), at the exact same volume (and two different volumes to check that difference) and I couldn't hear any noticeable difference.
 

K.Jack

Knowledge is power, guard it well
I can appreciate the sharing of technical knowledge, but afaik Ashong's beef with unamped M50s has nothing to do with loudness.
 

Septimius

Junior Member
I can appreciate the sharing of technical knowledge, but afaik Ashong's beef with unamped M50s has nothing to do with loudness.

And my entire post was about how amps can't improve anything at the same volume, since amps amplify volume. If they do anything they're an amp that also equalizes, and the way that amp equalizes seems to be the way Ashong wants it. I don't want my amp changing the frequency response of the material I'm listening to.

The world of analogue sound equipment is a superstitious one, though. I've read tons of interviews of producers, and I know several that have a "better box" in their studio. David Gilmour's producers for On An Island (that's Pink Floyd's guitarist) had an equalizer that they would send their mix through. It's completely bypassed, but they say "whatever it goes through inside of there when it's turned off just makes it sound better. We have no idea why."

This is how ridiculous the world of amplifiers are (and we're talking proper amplifiers for speakers) - my friend is currently restoring one, and he needs to fix the rectifier (the part of the power supply that makes DC from the AC out of your wall socket). He had to order some gold..plated..cap.. I have no idea really.. capacitors from some obscure manufacturer in some far off land, because this is apparently the only capacitors you should put in the rectifier stage of your power supply (in short, capacitors is a tiny battery, and it is the properties of the capacitors that rectifies the alternating current - the right characteristics of the capacitors will ensure as little fluctuations as possible in the output voltage). People will swear by certain components even though basic electronic components literally are a dime a dusin and still are of fantastic quality.

EDIT: So what I'm saying is that there are stranger things than amps that have been said to improve the quality of the sound
 
I need a new set of earbuds for working out. Music really hypes me up during workouts and helps me push through the tough ones. Looking for sound quality that will amplify this effect.

any recommendations?
 
Around 35 Ohm impedance, it takes very little power to make it really loud. You shouldn't need an amp from your computer, as any computer should have more than enough power to create the loudness you need. Some people will say amps still are beneficial to the sound of your headphones, but I can't sign off on that unless it's a tube amp, which are easily 500$ and not worth it unless your headphones cost even more. This is just the way I feel about it. It seems amp sales have gone through the roof the last years, and I think a lot of it is due to the fact that we've all been convinced we need an amp. I know I won't need an amp unless I have 600 Ohm headphones.

M50s are good. Their low impedance should mean any smartphone can blow your ears off at max volume. I know what amps can do, and I know what amps can't. To me, amps can only emphasize bass or mids or highs, they can't change the quality of the sound you put into them.
Thanks for the gen. It seems subjective and I'm certainly not dying to spend more money.
 

cajunator

Banned
Just got some Fischer FA-003 headphones recommended to me by a Gaffer and I honestly couldn't be happier with these things. SO clear and crisp. Well worth the cost.
 

LCfiner

Member
And my entire post was about how amps can't improve anything at the same volume, since amps amplify volume. If they do anything they're an amp that also equalizes, and the way that amp equalizes seems to be the way Ashong wants it. I don't want my amp changing the frequency response of the material I'm listening to.

From my own personal experience with higher end cans, I gotta disagree a little. it’s not just about volume, it's about driver control and a signal with low distortion that will improve the sound.

Now, there are some good quality headphones that are easy to drive and have high efficiency so they sound about the same from an iPhone and a good quality amp (at the same volume). Grados have never needed a ton of power in my experience. the midrange models are headphones that, in my experience, sound close to their maximum potential coming from an iPod or from an amp.

but when you get some better quality, harder to drive headphones, then amps matter more. you’ll need more voltage and more current to get the drivers operating at their best. these headphones will be less efficient or have higher impedances (requiring a higher voltage).

I’m not saying someone needs to spend a ton of money on amps. But a decent amp that provides more power than what you get from an iPhone or from your typical laptop will make those headphones sound better. (I’m also assuming here that the source is coming from a well made DAC that has minimal distortion and a flat, neutral response)

I’ve heard improvements in bass response on the Denon D5000 and D7000 series, where the sound out of an iPod can get loud but the bass is very flabby and boomy unless you put a decent amp in the signal to increase the power to the drivers.

I’ve used an HD800 out of an iPod and out of a few amps of various quality and I’ve heard bass get better (to get a more flat frequency curve) and imaging improve to get a wider soundstage.

Now, I definitely agree with you about the “equalizing” that goes on with amps. people talk about component synergy or tube rolling to try to get a specific flavour of the sound with a certain combo of headphones and amp. I don’t personally think that is productive as it can take a lot of time and money to get a specific combination that they like. I’d rather just get something flat and neutral and change headphones or add some software EQ if the sound change I want is minor.
 

ElyrionX

Member
I've been noticing the increased trend of people automatically assuming that they need an amp to drive their IEMs/headphones. It's all pretty absurd to me, especially when it comes to IEMs.

I really don't think it makes sense to even be thinking about buying amps when it comes to low to mid-tier headphones like M50s. You might as well put that money to a better pair of headphones and you'll probably get more bang for your buck.
 

Talon

Member
Every time this thread is updated I think the TMA-1 drops in price. I really really regret not snagging them for 160$ in January :C

Speaking of which, I just got a pair, and I couldn't be more thrilled. Perfect for my commuting needs, and the pass are super comfortable. Only complaint would be that the mic placement is less than ideal. Would rather have them lower down the line.
 
Speaking of which, I just got a pair, and I couldn't be more thrilled. Perfect for my commuting needs, and the pass are super comfortable. Only complaint would be that the mic placement is less than ideal. Would rather have them lower down the line.

So I should just suck it up and buy a pair?
 

Alucrid

Banned
I've been noticing the increased trend of people automatically assuming that they need an amp to drive their IEMs/headphones. It's all pretty absurd to me, especially when it comes to IEMs.

I really don't think it makes sense to even be thinking about buying amps when it comes to low to mid-tier headphones like M50s. You might as well put that money to a better pair of headphones and you'll probably get more bang for your buck.

I imagine it's half misinformation half seeing everyone else buy amps. Getting better headphones might work, but once you get high enough (even headphones that are only double the cost of M50s) you start actually needing an amp. I mean, yeah, the amps I used help some, but not so much that I would tell someone to go out and buy them. Still, one reason why I'm mainly sticking to IEMs. My pockets aren't filled and my desk isn't cluttered.
 

Septimius

Junior Member
From my own personal experience with higher end cans, I gotta disagree a little. it’s not just about volume, it's about driver control and a signal with low distortion that will improve the sound.

Now, there are some good quality headphones that are easy to drive and have high efficiency so they sound about the same from an iPhone and a good quality amp (at the same volume). Grados have never needed a ton of power in my experience. the midrange models are headphones that, in my experience, sound close to their maximum potential coming from an iPod or from an amp.

but when you get some better quality, harder to drive headphones, then amps matter more. you’ll need more voltage and more current to get the drivers operating at their best. these headphones will be less efficient or have higher impedances (requiring a higher voltage).

I’m not saying someone needs to spend a ton of money on amps. But a decent amp that provides more power than what you get from an iPhone or from your typical laptop will make those headphones sound better. (I’m also assuming here that the source is coming from a well made DAC that has minimal distortion and a flat, neutral response)

I’ve heard improvements in bass response on the Denon D5000 and D7000 series, where the sound out of an iPod can get loud but the bass is very flabby and boomy unless you put a decent amp in the signal to increase the power to the drivers.

I’ve used an HD800 out of an iPod and out of a few amps of various quality and I’ve heard bass get better (to get a more flat frequency curve) and imaging improve to get a wider soundstage.

Now, I definitely agree with you about the “equalizing” that goes on with amps. people talk about component synergy or tube rolling to try to get a specific flavour of the sound with a certain combo of headphones and amp. I don’t personally think that is productive as it can take a lot of time and money to get a specific combination that they like. I’d rather just get something flat and neutral and change headphones or add some software EQ if the sound change I want is minor.

The distortion aspect makes a lot of sense. And I don't really have enough experience with amps to say I know anything about this for certain. I guess it's really only down to S/N ratio and distortion that can get in the way, and I personally never have anything on max on my iPhone - I'm always one click below because it sounds a ton better.

No discussion that amps can help, but I'm still having a hard time grasping that amps can clear up sound, since it can't really alter the input it gets if the output from the source is unclean. At least I can't see a way that I wouldn't be afraid of the amp otherwise affecting the sound. It's a very tricky subject, though. I really need to try an amp before I can be more adamant. But we're still saying "giving more power to the drivers" as if that's something you can do without making it louder.
 

neos

Member
Yesterday i bought a pair of used 595's on ebay for 96GBP, quite a deal.
I'm excited to try them, but sadly i'll have to wait an international delivery:(
 

LCfiner

Member
The distortion aspect makes a lot of sense. And I don't really have enough experience with amps to say I know anything about this for certain. I guess it's really only down to S/N ratio and distortion that can get in the way, and I personally never have anything on max on my iPhone - I'm always one click below because it sounds a ton better.

No discussion that amps can help, but I'm still having a hard time grasping that amps can clear up sound, since it can't really alter the input it gets if the output from the source is unclean. At least I can't see a way that I wouldn't be afraid of the amp otherwise affecting the sound. It's a very tricky subject, though. I really need to try an amp before I can be more adamant. But we're still saying "giving more power to the drivers" as if that's something you can do without making it louder.

The takeaway is that cheap amps do distort the sound. What makes a standalone amp better than a built in amp is that the signal has less distortion (and more power) so that the sound is closer to the "wire with gain" that you are looking for.

I'll repeat that external amps and dacs are less important for mid fi cans or very efficient IEMs. But once you get into the more expensive headphones not designed to be driven from a portable player, then the amp becomes necessary to get your money's worth from the headphone.
 

pax217

Member
I need a new set of earbuds for working out. Music really hypes me up during workouts and helps me push through the tough ones. Looking for sound quality that will amplify this effect.

any recommendations?

Headphones & IEMs Spreadsheet

You didn't mention a price point, but the Xears XE200Pro's are good for workouts. Check eBay. Also look for MEElectronics' S6 model, which I'm not sure is even in production yet.
 

Ostinatto

Member
image1079364574_k664055cbde2649d.jpg


i have this for about 3 years, sounds really good, but my ears hurt when i use it for a couple of hours o more, maybe my head is too big, dont know, any ear friendly headphone recommendation?

thanks gaf
 
Ordered some Fostex T50RP. Only $70 and some people on head-fi speak very highly of these headphones that use some type of non-standard technology.
 

LCfiner

Member
Ordered some Fostex T50RP. Only $70 and some people on head-fi speak very highly of these headphones that use some type of non-standard technology.

They're planar magnetic, like the lcd2. They're supposed to be easy to mod by inserting some damping foam around the driver - apparently improves the sound if done properly.


Let us know how you like them.
 

mhayze

Member
Any reason why you switched away? What are you using now?

Between the LCD-2 (rev 2) and the HD800, I have my open headphone needs covered in my desktop rig. The T1 was a little better to listen to with some (poor) recordings than the HD800, but the T1 didn't have the HD800s soundstaging and overall resolution in my rig, especially with symphonic and acoustic music. When I added the LCD-2, I had that base covered, and the LCD-2 has it's own particular strengths (bass).

Also, I think the T1 would have sounded better with a different amp, which I didn't feel like switching. I loved my T1, but couldn't justify 3 high end phones. The idea was initially to replace it with an O2, but the amps were hard to come by, and then the SR-009 was released. Now I'm thinking of getting a high end IEM instead (maybe the JH16).
 
http://www.akg.com/mediendatenbank2/pspic/image//4/image1079364574_k664055cbde2649d.jpg

i have this for about 3 years, sounds really good, but my ears hurt when i use it for a couple of hours o more, maybe my head is too big, dont know, any ear friendly headphone recommendation?

thanks gaf

It depends how much you are willing to spend.

If you want solid performers that are also comfortable and not outlandishly expensive (ie, under $200), then the best option there IMO is the Phiaton PS500. Sound quality is similar to the M50, only less V shaped (ie, doesn't drop in the mids and upper mids like the M50) and they are really comfortable. Quite durable as well.

If that's too pricey though, there's plenty of comfy options in the low budget end. Sennheiser's 4x8 range springs to mind. I've only tried the 418s, but I've been told they are all much the same in that regard.
 

K.Jack

Knowledge is power, guard it well
I'd like to circle back, to point out that the whole discussion on amps and whatever stems from a person who is buying the M50s solely for use with his PC. Surely there was merit to recommending the E10, if his machine does not have decent sound equipment installed.
 

LCfiner

Member
I'd like to circle back, to point out that the whole discussion on amps and whatever stems from a person who is buying the M50s solely for use with his PC. Surely there was merit to recommending the E10, if his machine does not have decent sound equipment installed.

Yeah, I agree. There is some merit in recommending the E10. Its pretty inexpensive, a decent amp and should also improve the source by having a better dac than what is inside the pc.

And the E10 is popular and really easy to sell if someone doesn't think it's necessary.
 

Alucrid

Banned
I'd like to circle back, to point out that the whole discussion on amps and whatever stems from a person who is buying the M50s solely for use with his PC. Surely there was merit to recommending the E10, if his machine does not have decent sound equipment installed.

Maybe, maybe not. Probably not. At least not enough to tell them to go out and spend ~$90 more.
 

Septimius

Junior Member
The takeaway is that cheap amps do distort the sound. What makes a standalone amp better than a built in amp is that the signal has less distortion (and more power) so that the sound is closer to the "wire with gain" that you are looking for.

I'll repeat that external amps and dacs are less important for mid fi cans or very efficient IEMs. But once you get into the more expensive headphones not designed to be driven from a portable player, then the amp becomes necessary to get your money's worth from the headphone.

Thanks for keeping up the discussion about amps. I know electronics and signal theory, but I need to unify that knowledge with the actual use of amps.

I know that I'm probably gonna end up with a Woo Audio amp and Tesla T1s. And I'd never use the T1s without a proper amp. But then I'm feeling I should have a decent DAC, too. I'm losing confidence in my current sound-interface's DAC. I know I wouldn't invest 1000$ in a DAC - what DAC would be worthy of the Woo Audio and Tesla?
 
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