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$500 cans on, this is how you dream right - Official Headphone Thread

LCfiner

Member
Thanks for keeping up the discussion about amps. I know electronics and signal theory, but I need to unify that knowledge with the actual use of amps.

I know that I'm probably gonna end up with a Woo Audio amp and Tesla T1s. And I'd never use the T1s without a proper amp. But then I'm feeling I should have a decent DAC, too. I'm losing confidence in my current sound-interface's DAC. I know I wouldn't invest 1000$ in a DAC - what DAC would be worthy of the Woo Audio and Tesla?


I've heard a few dacs and found pretty much anything over a hundred dollars to sound pretty good. If you do not need a lot of inputs and outputs, you could consider the HRT music streamer 2. It's USB and around 150 dollars. With more flexible I/o you got the Cambridge dacmagic, the headroom microdac and a few others under 400 bucks.

I recently got a benchmark dac1. Its around 1000 bucks and what I like about it is that it measures pretty much perfectly. There's no distortion, frequency response is flat. And it has a very decent headphone amp too. It appeals to me because of the totally flat and neutral signal you get from it.

if your heart is set on a woo audio amp, that's cool. But you might want to consider the dac1 as it also has the built in headphone amp that has enough power for the T1. But the woo Amos give you the ability to modify sound a bit via tubes if you want to try that out.
 

Septimius

Junior Member
I've heard a few dacs and found prett much anything over a hundred dollars to sound pretty good. If you do not need a lot of inputs and outputs, you could consider the HRT music streamer 2. It's USB and around 150 dollars. With more flexible I/o you got the Cambridge dacmagic, the headroom microdac and a few others under 400 bucks.

I recently got a benchmark dac1. Its around 1000 bucks and what I like about it is that it measures pretty much perfectly. There's no distortion, frequency response is flat. And it has a very decent headphone amp too. It appeals to me because of the totally flat and neutral signal you get from it.

if you it your heart set on a woo audio amp, that's cool. But you might want to consider the dac1 as it also has the built in headphone amp that has enough power for the T1. But the woo Amos give you the ability to modify sound a bit via tubes if you want to try that out.

There's something appealing about a tube headphone amp. It would be for the organic aspect of it, which I've heard the T1s can benefit from. I would love a surgically neutral experience, too, though. Damn, this stuff is though :p
 

Ashhong

Member
Long Post

Oh man, this post was way too technical for me to understand. I dont take it personally. Like I say in almost every post where I discuss any specific product, I am not an expert. I know nothing about headphones/amps and the technologies it uses. I only speak from experience and how certain things sound to me.

From my very basic knowledge of amps, I thought that by providing more power to the headphones, it makes it not only louder, but able to provide the sound signature that it was intended to make. I didn't realize it's adding it's own equalizer (though I do have to turn on bass boost on the E11 for my tastes).

But I don't mean to provide any false info to anybody, just give my own 2 cents as an amateur listener.


I need a new set of earbuds for working out. Music really hypes me up during workouts and helps me push through the tough ones. Looking for sound quality that will amplify this effect.

any recommendations?

I recently went back to my Sennheiser CX300 ear buds after using Meelectronics M21 for a good while, and have to say that they are great gym buds. They fit perfectly in my ear, whereas the M21 felt very fragile, even though they use the same silicone tips. The sound of the CX300 is far more bass heavy as well, which I prefer in the gym over the M21. Really gets me going when a big bass heavy trance song comes on. I wish they had a mic on it for when someone calls me.
 

Septimius

Junior Member
Oh man, this post was way too technical for me to understand. I dont take it personally. Like I say in almost every post where I discuss any specific product, I am not an expert. I know nothing about headphones/amps and the technologies it uses. I only speak from experience and how certain things sound to me.

From my very basic knowledge of amps, I thought that by providing more power to the headphones, it makes it not only louder, but able to provide the sound signature that it was intended to make. I didn't realize it's adding it's own equalizer (though I do have to turn on bass boost on the E11 for my tastes).

But I don't mean to provide any false info to anybody, just give my own 2 cents as an amateur listener.

It's very fair, and I wouldn't ever wish to say I'm a better source of knowledge at all, since I've never even owned a dedicated headphone amp.

But, I've followed it up, and I've come down to two factors that can make an amplifier better at the same volume as the source playing the same material. One is output impedance of the amp. As you might know, the voice-coil of a speaker is a coil of wire that is moved by induced magnetism towards a permanent magnet. This movement will always induce current (moving metal closer to a magnet "induces" or makes current in the metal you're moving closer to the magnet), and that current will travel back to the amp. The thing is that any speaker is a resonant system, since the speaker diaphragms have mass, and their surrounds have stiffness. A lower output impedance on an amp will brake the unwanted resonant movement by putting a bigger current load on the current generator that the voice-coil is under movement, as said, it becomes a current generator due to the movement near the permanent magnet, and the higher load (because more current will flow with lower resistance) will brake this movement more efficiently. A good headphone amp can have output impedance under 1 Ohm, while an iPod has 5 Ohm.

Now, this is something the electrician in me understands right away.

The other argument is "The headphone amplifier improves the sound quality by increasing the amount of power available to move the transducer, increasing the control that the source has over just where the transducer is in space" which is close to the whole "providing more power without making it louder" - but the problem is that power is what moves the diaphragms in a speaker, and more power equals more movement, equals higher volume. "Driver control" makes no sense as a factor of power - it makes sense as a factor of output impedance as discussed above, but an amp can never assume anything on part of the headphones in an attempt to improve the headphones, since all headphones will have a certain differencing resonance, and harmonic distortion and intermodulation - all of which also variates with temperature to make matters worse.

All in all, amps are, all in all, a very simple electrical idea. An ideal op-amp, voltage source and some resistors is all you'd need to make the best amplifier in the world. The components we do put into an amplifier are never ideal, though, so it is obvious that the production value of an amp can be higher, and you can utilize different concepts for power amplification to make a good audio amplifier. There's nothing more to it. There's no need for any integrated circuits and power-controls or a tiny brain to control the input or output in any way. It's merely the result of transistors or other means of amplifications. I probably have the components to make a nice amp right here. This is why I'm baffled by a concept of "giving more power", because I know more power is a way of saying "louder".

Simply put - our source (iPhone, PC, PS3, amp) outputs voltage. Voltage squared over impedance is power. More power is only made by higher voltage, which makes the volume go up.

But - amps can also improve on intermodularity, total harmonic distortion, so there's no news that they can improve sound. And the driver control likely comes down to the dampening factor (helped by low output impedance of an amp). It's still a discussed point if this is a desirable effect or not, though.
 
When it comes to the M50s, they are very popular with studio musicians. Thus a lot of reviews talk about amps because musicians use the M50s for tracking (because of the closed design - no sound leak) and need extra amplification to boost vocals/bass/drums/etc. I think casual users read these reviews and believe they need one.
 

nitewulf

Member
But - amps can also improve on intermodularity, total harmonic distortion, so there's no news that they can improve sound.
there are different types of amplifiers. ideally, an amplifier will not add/delete anything from the source signal, and as you say, "multiply" the input signal by a factor. but neither an amplifier, or the output device (headphones/spekers) are truely linear devices. they would be, if they only had resistive load, but they have reactive load, so the impedance varies with frequency.

better designed amps will handle this nonlinear load and drive a constant amount of current at all times. and this seems to be the main issue why amps sound different, because it is actually much easier said than done. plus different output devices are used, some amps are transformer coupled, some amps are transistor coupled, and how these devices output/operate in their respective linear regions also come into play.

an amp will not "improve" the sound. but most amps will take away (or add), and the better amps will take away(or add) less.
 

FoxSpirit

Junior Member
Okay, I just had an audiophile experience. And that's pretty rare. Very.

I think I blasted myself the past 1-2 hours non-stop with insanely highly quality music. At least for what was given. There are steps above but it already sounded really, really good.

Pieces: Galaxy S-II & PowerAmp players with DVC control off & Koss Porta Pro.

That's it. What came out after a few hours of listening is amazing.

I have the biggest grin right now. I have no clue how a 30 Euro headphone can sound like this but hot damn. And it's ultra comfortable too, it weighs nothing and has supports to take pressue off the ears and distribute it more evenly. Vanishes from your head just after a few minutes.

So... good...
 

pax217

Member
Okay, I just had an audiophile experience. And that's pretty rare. Very.

I think I blasted myself the past 1-2 hours non-stop with insanely highly quality music. At least for what was given. There are steps above but it already sounded really, really good.

Pieces: Galaxy S-II & PowerAmp players with DVC control off & Koss Porta Pro.

That's it. What came out after a few hours of listening is amazing.

I have the biggest grin right now. I have no clue how a 30 Euro headphone can sound like this but hot damn. And it's ultra comfortable too, it weighs nothing and has supports to take pressue off the ears and distribute it more evenly. Vanishes from your head just after a few minutes.

So... good...

Added to spreadsheet. Thanks.
 

luffeN

Member
I am currently using these iE http://us.skullcandy.com/shop/titan-painted-black-chrome

I want to go the "next level" and thinking about spending between 50 and 100 Euros. I went through the list and the Beyerdynamic DTX101iE are currently at about 60 Euros on Amazon.de (I live in Austria). Would you recommend me those or is there anything better for my budget? I mostly listen to rock, punk rock and hands-up. It does not need to have too much bass like some of the Sony MDR headphones for example.

Edit: Would the Shure SE-215 K E be better?

Edit2: Ordered the DTX101iE
 
Okay, I just had an audiophile experience. And that's pretty rare. Very.

I think I blasted myself the past 1-2 hours non-stop with insanely highly quality music. At least for what was given. There are steps above but it already sounded really, really good.

Pieces: Galaxy S-II & PowerAmp players with DVC control off & Koss Porta Pro.

That's it. What came out after a few hours of listening is amazing.

I have the biggest grin right now. I have no clue how a 30 Euro headphone can sound like this but hot damn. And it's ultra comfortable too, it weighs nothing and has supports to take pressue off the ears and distribute it more evenly. Vanishes from your head just after a few minutes.

So... good...

Portapros have a really amazing sound, especially given how they look and their price. I woul consider those to have been my first "higher end" headphones.
 

pax217

Member
I am currently using these iE http://us.skullcandy.com/shop/titan-painted-black-chrome

I want to go the "next level" and thinking about spending between 50 and 100 Euros. I went through the list and the Beyerdynamic DTX101iE are currently at about 60 Euros on Amazon.de (I live in Austria). Would you recommend me those or is there anything better for my budget? I mostly listen to rock, punk rock and hands-up. It does not need to have too much bass like some of the Sony MDR headphones for example.

Edit: Would the Shure SE-215 K E be better?

Edit2: Ordered the DTX101iE

I haven't heard the Shures, but based on my experience with Shure products in the past, and the reviews for the DTX101s, I'd say you made a good choice.
 

Sh1ner

Member
So Gaf collective, I had a pair of Shure SE315s link: http://www.shure.co.uk/products/earphones/se315

To cut a long story short they got nicked in a bizarre situation. I am looking for replacements. I thought these to be my favourite pair of headphones of all time except the bass was lacking. That came from the impresson of owning Samsung stock headphones that came with my nexus S.

What does GAF suggest? Any superior IEMs for a smaller price?

My listening is varied, drum and bass (+ alot of liquid drum and bass), ambient/deep dubstep electrohouse to darker stuff like NIN/HTDA/Radiohead/ThomYorke and so on.

Currently using a fallback pair of Shure SE115s, I find them uncomfortable and somewhat lacking.
 

K.Jack

Knowledge is power, guard it well
Maybe, maybe not. Probably not. At least not enough to tell them to go out and spend ~$90 more.

Really? I don't have a desktop or laptop in my house, with which even easy to drive headphones like my dad's HARX700s don't sound weak and lacking of body.
 

Threi

notag
so i hear monoprice cheapie iem's are baller as fuck


i loves me some cheap ghetto audio equipment so consider it bought
 

MultiCore

Member
So, GAF.

I currently own Sennheiser HD 280 PRO's, Beyer DT 770 - 32 ohm's, and Super-fi 5 EB's.

I just purchased Beyer HS800's for aviation. Does anyone else have any experience with aviation headsets, or the Beyer's in particular? I wanted anything but Bose essentially. I also looked at Lightspeed's sets, and cried that JH Audio doesn't make aviation headsets any more.

Did I make a big mistake? They're in the mail, but I'm just looking for other impressions on them I guess.
 
I got impatient waiting for the Xears XE200Pro's to show back up on Ebay. I went ahead and bought the RE-Zero's from Amazon instead. I had store credit, so it made the bump up in price easy. I hope they are worth it.
 
I got impatient waiting for the Xears XE200Pro's to show back up on Ebay. I went ahead and bought the RE-Zero's from Amazon instead. I had store credit, so it made the bump up in price easy. I hope they are worth it.

Zero's are excellent phones from a neutrality standpoint. Don't expect much in terms of bass output. The clarity is going to be outstanding, but bass monster the RE-Zero is not
 
Zero's are excellent phones from a neutrality standpoint. Don't expect much in terms of bass output. The clarity is going to be outstanding, but bass monster the RE-Zero is not

I heard the bass is adequate, which I think should be fine for me. Honestly, I'm looking to preserve my hearing more the older I get. Worst comes to worst, I can easily return them to Amazon if they aren't to my liking.

I think as long as there is more bass than my cheapo Shure IEM's, I'll be happy with them.
 
I guess what I mean is that they won't give you punchy/impactful bass, the sort that you can feel. The bass will be very clean and articulate on the RE-Zero's but impactful bass is not something that HiFiMan phones specialize in, no matter how far you go up the chain. Their warmest phone is the RE262 and even the bass on those phones isn't what I'd call impactful. An amped 262 is an amazing phone though, definitely one of the best sounding IEMs I've come across
 

Alucrid

Banned
I heard the bass is adequate, which I think should be fine for me. Honestly, I'm looking to preserve my hearing more the older I get. Worst comes to worst, I can easily return them to Amazon if they aren't to my liking.

I think as long as there is more bass than my cheapo Shure IEM's, I'll be happy with them.
'more bass' is such an ambiguous phrase.
 
Really? I had other headphones that clamped hard (like the Sony MDR7506), but my M50s feel loose. One head shake and they fall off.
No way these are falling off (and I do not have a big head).

I don't really want to stretch them like I might a cheap pair of headphones but I feel like I ought to.
 

HTuran

Member
Hrm.

So my TMA-1s have suddenly gone pretty muted in the right channel, and make a strange crackling noise when I press the right can to my ear. Bass is heavily distorted. Only had them since Christmas, and treated them well.

Absolutely incredible pair of headphones otherwise. Not sure how I'll go without them ;—; Sure as hell hope the warranty covers it...
 

K.Jack

Knowledge is power, guard it well
Sorry if my audio terminology is not up to your level of standard.

Sir, RE0 or RE-ZERO?

No way these are falling off (and I do not have a big head).

I don't really want to stretch them like I might a cheap pair of headphones but I feel like I ought to.
You can stretch them. Those definitely aren't going to break unless you purposely apply an unreasonable amount of outward pressure.

Hm. My TMA-1s have suddenly gone pretty muted in the right channel, and make a strange crackling noise when I press the right can to my ear. Only had them since Christmas, hope the warranty is good.
That sucks.

Fortunately, AIAIAI customer service is amazing.
 

purg3

slept with Malkin
my grado sr60i's came in today listening to them right now, and I have to say that they are pretty awesome for the price. Glad I bought them, but anyone that uses grado's do you guys use the stock pads or something else?
 

Helmholtz

Member
Can anyone recommend some open headphones at ~$150-$200?
In terms of sound I guess I'm looking for something balanced, I listen to a variety of music but mainly alternative rock/some electronic.
Up until now I've been set on M50s, which I know are closed, but if there are good open alternatives in that price range I'd be interested.
 

erpg

GAF parliamentarian
Anyone else own MEElectronics CW31s? Is there supposed to be a hole at the tip of the wooden part on both earphones? My left one is plugged up, right has a hole in it, just wondering if it's a small manufacturing defect with the wood polish.
 
Recommend DAC's for Senn's HD 558.
Relatively cheap ones with an optical input in the back and headphone jack in the front. I want to get the best out of these headphones for gaming purposes.

kthnx.
 

Helmholtz

Member
Can anyone recommend some open headphones at ~$150-$200?
In terms of sound I guess I'm looking for something balanced, I listen to a variety of music but mainly alternative rock/some electronic.
Up until now I've been set on M50s, which I know are closed, but if there are good open alternatives in that price range I'd be interested.

I looked into Brainwavz HM5. Are they any good? Better than M50s?
 
I looked into Brainwavz HM5. Are they any good? Better than M50s?

The Brainwavz HM5s are literally rebranded Fischer Audio FA-003s. They are very good neutral cans, maybe even the best available depending on your tastes. They are light, comfy and have excellent detail and you should be able to to drive them quite easily from an iPhone etc without an amp. They are highly recommended and rather cheap too, IIRC. NeoGAF user Cajunator has the Fischer Audio FA-003s (again, exact same headphone), so he can perhaps further advise on what to expect.

I don't have much experience with open headphones at that price range, but here's a few excellent closed suggestions that certainly rival, or best, the M50 (depending on what you're looking for);

Shure SRH840: laid back sound with slightly forward mids putting the emphasis on detail rather than sparkle (ala M50). Probably the best headphones in the price range for vocals/guitars/etc due to the strong presence and clarity in the midrange. Might be uncomfortable depending on your head size. Won't need an amp.

M-Audio Studiophile Q40: Oldies but goodies, they are somewhat akin to the SRH840 but lighter, with less isolation (always the tradeoff), slightly bigger soundstage and more emphasis on bass, less emphasis on mids. The highs roll off sooner too. Rather comfy IMO, haven't heard anyone else complain either. Benefits considerably from a dedicated amp, maybe as much as 30%.

Sennheiser HD25-1 ii: A fan favorite and with good reason, these are basically a more clinical M50. Bass is tight and balanced, not quite as punchy as the Q40 but vastly more detailed. It bleeds less into the mids which are only slightly recessed compared to the V-like M50. The highs are extended, bright and sparkly (moreso than the M50), prone to sibilance as a result. Portable and built like a tank, not as much isolation or soundstage as most would like. Also expensive. Would benefit from an amp.

V-Moda M80: You've probably heard of these. They are some of the best all-round potables available. Lose a little on comfort and isolation to provide a brilliant all round sound. Bass is close to the HD25-1, mids are close to the SRH840, little bleed between the two and a nice laid back top end. Doesn't benefit at all from an amp.

Other suggestions that are good: Phiaton MS400, Denon ADH110
M50 signature sound (aggressive highs/lows, recessed mids), only cheaper: Denon DN-HP700 (with amp), Numark PHX Pro (without amp)
 

Alucrid

Banned
Okay. Not sure how you can think that with what little you know about my audiological tastes. Well, I'll see in a day. Amazon returns are hassle free, so I figured they are worth a try.
I can extrapolate what your probable preferences are from your "more bass" descriptor, since the general populace prefers bass heavy headphones.
 
I can extrapolate what your probable preferences are from your "more bass" descriptor, since the general populace prefers bass heavy headphones.

As you already said, my "more bass" descriptor is ambiguous. Personally I find my current IEM's (they are falling apart, that's my main reason for replacing them), to be pretty flat and lifeless. Some might call them "neutral", but I'm not really sure. I definitely don't want IEM's that have thumping bass, just something a bit more defined than I currently have.
 

pax217

Member
I've heard some good stuff about their iems too. Anyone know of their other audio stuff is good?

Premium Hi-fi DJ are the tops for the price also.

If you want loudspeakers, I just purchased a pair of their 6.5in home theater bookshelf speakers and they can't be beat for the price. The only thing under $100 that I'd consider with them would be the Pioneer SB-PS21's which are excellent as well.
 

TrounceX

Member
Hey guys, I need help finding a decent pair of closed headphones. I just got a pair of Audio Technica M50's but they don't fit my ears well, and the cabling is just plain stupid. It's like a short, coiled up stretchy cable. I can't have that.

So basically:

Closed
Large ear cups
Long, straight cable
~$200 budget

I'll be using them mostly for my digital keyboard so actual sound quality is less of an issue. I'm more looking for comfort and build quality.

Suggestions?
 

pax217

Member
Can anyone recommend some open headphones at ~$150-$200?
In terms of sound I guess I'm looking for something balanced, I listen to a variety of music but mainly alternative rock/some electronic.
Up until now I've been set on M50s, which I know are closed, but if there are good open alternatives in that price range I'd be interested.

Have you looked at the Grado SR125i's? They're open, comfortable, easily modded, and you could also consider the Alessandro MS1's for a warmer sound depending on what you listen to-- I'm just partial to being loyal to Grado, who's never let me down.

Hey guys, I need help finding a decent pair of closed headphones. I just got a pair of Audio Technica M50's but they don't fit my ears well, and the cabling is just plain stupid. It's like a short, coiled up stretchy cable. I can't have that.

So basically:

Closed
Large ear cups
Long, straight cable
~$200 budget

I'll be using them mostly for my digital keyboard so actual sound quality is less of an issue. I'm more looking for comfort and build quality.

Suggestions?

You could always do your own cable, I'd recommend the Beyerdynamic DT770 for the ears issue.
 
Hey guys, I need help finding a decent pair of closed headphones. I just got a pair of Audio Technica M50's but they don't fit my ears well, and the cabling is just plain stupid. It's like a short, coiled up stretchy cable. I can't have that.

So basically:

Closed
Large ear cups
Long, straight cable
~$200 budget

I'll be using them mostly for my digital keyboard so actual sound quality is less of an issue. I'm more looking for comfort and build quality.

Suggestions?

There are 2 versions of the M50s - straight and coiled. I have the straight.
 
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