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[LakeOf9]

As the game industry continues through these difficult times, those surveyed by the Game Developers Collective believe they know the real core problems of the industry.

Those surveyed were asked about present market conditions for the industry overall. 38 percent and 21 percent were respectively at "bad" and "very bad," while 26 percent stayed neutral and 13 percent found it "good."

"Market conditions" in this instance refers to the industry's "unusually difficult commercial environment," such as its swaths of layoffs and closures, and the "financial difficulties" at studios that precede these events.

When asked, 49 percent think conditions are likely to stay the same over the next six months. 19 percent believe things will get worse, while 25 percent are more optimistic that conditions will only improve from here.

SOURCE

 

[Haint]

You think the surveyed developers realize 95% of the high development costs and investor expectations are a direct result of them earning $250,000+ salaries and benefit packages as they spend much of their days scootering to the ping pong table next to the artisanal juice bars? Or their woke zealot coworkers petitioning studio heads to commission Sweetbaby Inc. to the tune of $10,000,000 - $20,000,000 per title.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Shits fucked.

I don't know how we got here but it feels like some perfect storm of multiple variables just compiling to create a shit sandwich.

Covid slump, budgets, blue hair, snowflakes, quality taking a shit due to the backlash of crunch. Lack of talent. Old guard getting burnt our and moving on with no decent replacements coming up through the ranks. Crazy wages for the higher ups who make shit decisions.

so much more as well.

 

[Punished Miku]

If you want free money thrown at you by being on the stock market, it's up to management to communicate realistic goals to those investors. Investors are just a different kind of customer, so it's kind of pointless to blame them for anything.

That means it's mismanagement, high cost of development primarily that are the main issues they identify. Pretty damning.

I think they radically underrate lack of consumer demand, lack of innovation, and competition from other games. Sounds like they're clueless honestly, or in denial. Just want to keep making super expensive shit with bad management and expect consumers to just keep footing the bill for their cushy jobs and crunch free lifestyle living in the most expensive parts of the country. Well good luck with that. I think consumers are just about at capacity in terms of being milked, so if they're not growing the customer base they may be shit out of luck.

But it really doesn't matter one bit whether they figure it out or not. They'll learn one way or the other.

 

[Fake]

Devs never blame themselves.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Market shifted under A LOT (not all) of feet. If you're making old style games prepare to get **** on.

 

[BennyBlanco]

Seems to me you either have to have hugely popular IPs and keep feeding those fans like CoD, GTA, Nintendo, etc…. Or you need to make a game that catches on with streamers and tiktok like Palworld and Helldivers.

This game came out a few months ago, had a big budget, and look at the state of it now. Unmitigated disaster. And the crazy thing is everyone saw this coming months before release besides apparently the devs and publisher.

 

[{insert code here}]

Devs never blame themselves.

Basically this. Games are supposed to be about fun and entertainment. They were never meant to be some medium to pass on your political agendas all while siphoning out every dollar they can from their customers' wallets.

 

[Wildebeest]

Developers are likely to overvalue how exciting their own work is in terms of things like innovation and competitiveness.

 

[unlurkified]

Hey

You think the surveyed developers realize 95% of the high development costs and investor expectations are a direct result of them earning $250,000+ salaries and benefit packages as they spend much of their days scootering to the ping pong table next to the artisanal juice bars? Or their woke zealot coworkers petitioning heads to commission Sweetbaby Inc. to the tune of $10,000,000 - $20,000,000 per title.

Hey, what’s wrong with dragonfruit, guava, kumquat smoothies?

I’ve heard it said that there’s just a finite amount of top talent in the industry. But the problem is that those people get burned out at whatever big studio they were at, go off to start a passion project but it never takes off. A lot of the talent that made the games we love is just gone.

 

[MikeM]

Too big of scope. Lootboxes to piss off consumers. Deluxe and whatever else editions to drive fomo. Battlepasses everywhere.

I buy way less than I did before. Not a problem of the devs generally- its that management forgot about putting the consumer first.

 

[tr1p1ex]

that's because you had a big boom during the pandemic followed by a bust when life returned to normal.

 

[diffusionx]

Of course devs are going to say that it’s not the devs fault.

 

[Gp1]

Who would have thought that the end of cheap money, rising costs, scope creeping everywhere, and a decade of political agenda, focus on monetization etc instead of just make fun games by passionate developers, would leave the industry in "bad straits".

Maybe its time to just take game development industry to other markets where you can control some of these factors better.

The gaming industry still tries to emulate the "Marvel success formula" (big bada boom with insipid scripts, bad jokes, sassy characters, tight creative control and pasteurized formulas) when even Disney is "trying" to steer away from it.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

Devs never blame themselves.

Even Jason Schreier mentioned once that most predatory monetisation tactics come from devs, not management.

 

[FoxMcChief]

Devs themselves are the biggest problem. Poor internal management for the most part.

 

[Loomy]

You think the surveyed developers realize 95% of the high development costs and investor expectations are a direct result of them earning $250,000+ salaries and benefit packages as they spend much of their days scootering to the ping pong table next to the artisanal juice bars? Or their woke zealot coworkers petitioning heads to commission Sweetbaby Inc. to the tune of $10,000,000 - $20,000,000 per title.

You really think 50% of devs at a studio are making over $250k? Average salary is under $70k. And no one is paying a consultant $10m.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

just make fun games by passionate developers

Do people understand just how devoid of meaning this phrase has?

 

[FeralEcho]

Basically this. Games are supposed to be about fun and entertainment. They were never meant to be some medium to pass on your political agendas all while siphoning out every dollar they can from their customers' wallets.

This... When your goal as a dev is to create messages of your own world views to indoctrinate the players instead of creating a fun concept for the players on your GAME product then don't be surprised when those same players will tell you to fuck off by not buying your woke filled crap.

 

[Gp1]

Do people understand just how devoid of meaning this phrase has?

I don't see that way. Half of the time when you see a big dev interview (DA: Veilguard, some recent Blizzard, Ubi etc.) you see a boring ass suit trying to shove shit down your throats like they are selling the Monalisa.

The devs are completely disconnected from their "user base".

It's a completely different scenario than what you see on the indie development scene.

 

[Complistic]

As with everything there will be media that isn't worth your time, and media that is.

 

[Loomy]

As with everything there will be media that isn't worth your time, and media that is.

I'll never get why people spend so much time and energy complaining about media that isn't. Just move on and play/do something else.

 

[FeralEcho]

Do people understand just how devoid of meaning this phrase has?

Oh man,I don't think they do.

I think another thread is in order for everyone to finally find out

 

[Gamer_By_Proxy]

When I read the industry had bad straits I assumed they were kicking out the heterosexuals.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

You had all these games in development since 2017-2018 and just releasing now (because of “COVID delays” or whatever).

You can tell they started development before people were fucking sick to death of shitty Marvel dialog, heavy handed DEI moralizing, dumb hero shooter/Fortnite character designs, looter shooter/live service, etc.

Half the time game trailers nowadays feel like watching a trailer for some big budget live action Disney flop or c-tier Marvel sequel. You see it and you already know 90% chance this shit is going to flop and kill the studio.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

I don't see that way. Half of the time when you see a big dev interview (DA: Veilguard, some recent Blizzard, etc.) you see a boring ass suit trying to shove shit down your throats like they are selling the Monalisa.

The devs are completely disconnected from their "user base".

It's a completely different scenario than what you see on the indie development scene.

Then why are the most successful, profitable, popular games generally AAA or GAAS? Maybe tell the "passionate" indie devs to make their games more fun.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

You really think 50% of devs at a studio are making over $250k? Average salary is under $70k. And no one is paying a consultant $10m.

Facts. It’s just a lot of employees working for a long time. The salaries aren’t anywhere close to that on average

 

[MujkicHaris]

 

[Little Chicken]

Surprised consumer expectations (i.e. whining gamers) wasn't included.

 

[IAmRei]

again, as developer myself, this might be sent to indies, which affected by major or AAA failed games back before. it's hard to find investor? yes, i know lot of devs who looks upon investor find their game have to be super unique and it's kinda hard because oversaturated market, not counting the invested money had to fulfil goals and return of investment. and if it's goal, you will need xxxxx++ sales to justify invested funds to your product.

try to look not only in the west please, world is covering lot of sides beside west.
in Asia, we also have to fight GAAS and Mobile games, which super saturated as well, led to more difficult situation because some place in asia is not seen by others easily.

no, it is not only because of wokes, or DEI anymore, it's current few years market doomsayer and fold it multiple times these years.
(yes, wokes, still could led the downed sales, but not just that)

it is result of lot of things. but the most culprit is Sony report this year, and also studio closures and layoffs.

grim dark time, this year, indeed

 

[Dacvak]

Half the people here blaming executives and publishers. The other half blaming the devs and their managers. I’m just sitting here like

 

[Gp1]

Then why are the most successful, profitable, popular games generally AAA or GAAS? Maybe tell the "passionate" indie devs to make their games more fun.

AHHH Ok, i understood your point now.
The GASS games developers/publishers, a genre that hardly innovates, that most likely capitalized on an "indie" or a free mod (DayZ, PUBG - COD/Fornite, Warcraft Dota - Dota 2 and LOL, etc.) to "refine" the formula into a product with massive amount of investment.

And then they complain when they can't innovate or replicate the formula to create another success by developing the products internally...

 

[IAmRei]

Then why are the most successful, profitable, popular games generally AAA or GAAS? Maybe tell the "passionate" indie devs to make their games more fun.

money to burn as marketing, and it still worked well. especially if there is big money to burn behind them.
I believe lot of GAAS are also heavily leaned toward bug budget marketing.

indie dev will never had chance to fight GAAS if they still had budget constrain.
unless they suddenly had viral or being internet darling

 

[thismeinteil]

Is it a coincidence that this comes out after MS now own 59% of the big publishers? I think not.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

money to burn as marketing, and it still worked well. especially if there is big money to burn behind them.
I believe lot of GAAS are also heavily leaned toward bug budget marketing.

indie dev will never had chance to fight GAAS if they still had budget constrain.
unless they suddenly had viral or being internet darling

Most GAAS breakout hits have essentially 0 marketing. Word of mouth is too effective there.

Big IP AAA single player games like Spider-Man have the gigantic marketing budgets.

 

[Danknugz]

You think the surveyed developers realize 95% of the high development costs and investor expectations are a direct result of them earning $250,000+ salaries and benefit packages as they spend much of their days scootering to the ping pong table next to the artisanal juice bars? Or their woke zealot coworkers petitioning heads to commission Sweetbaby Inc. to the tune of $10,000,000 - $20,000,000 per title.

you forgot to add "to make boring games"

 

[hemo memo]

I’m seriously surprised it’s only 59 percent and not higher.

 

[NickFire]

If they make games that the actual audience wants, and release them in a good (enough) state, things will be fine.

 

[Dorfdad]

90% of the reason most of these games fail is because they are just plain bad or Mid. They have no SOUL and just feel very much alike IMHO. Very few titles stand out or continue to evolve because that takes time money and constant investment. Most studios don't have the stomach or money to do this. Fortnite love or hate it and Minecraft / Roblox all remain juggernauts because they continual change and evolve. Static games are great for short burst but tend to not have long tails in retail. While GAAS / GOTCHA / ETC have continual new content and freshness breathed into the gameplay loop.

 

[A.Romero]

It's a complex issue. While mismanagement could be one of the reasons, it doesn't necessarily mean what some people thinks it means (publishers stomping down and pushing developers to work in a certain way). Even self published indie studios are having a hard time. What about the huge number of lame kickstarters that went online in the last few years and yielded no product or a poor product?

Managing software products is difficult, specially when talking about complex video games. A well managed project is the exception, not the norm. It seems easy from the outside but there is a reason developer managed studios don't tend to last long either before burning or being sold to bigger companies.

 

[hemo memo]

If they make games that the actual audience wants, and release them in a good (enough) state, things will be fine.

The decision makers don’t actually play games. I mean why the fuck would you make your single player game always online? Also you’re looking at game completion data and you still release ridiculously expensive and long games? Also there’s something between sending your game to die and spending ridiculous amount on marketing and come crying because your game didn’t not meet your sales expectations. I mean how the industry is this mismanaged is unbelievable.

 

[rkofan87]

Shits fucked.

I don't know how we got here but it feels like some perfect storm of multiple variables just compiling to create a shit sandwich.

Covid slump, budgets, blue hair, snowflakes, quality taking a shit due to the backlash of crunch. Lack of talent. Old guard getting burnt our and moving on with no decent replacements coming up through the ranks. Crazy wages for the higher ups who make shit decisions.

so much more as well.

to much woke shit and f2p shit and gas shit

 

[hemo memo]

Another important point is that maybe the market now woke up to the idea that you have so many options to choose from and your ridiculous 70$ product is not the cure of cancer that you need to buy immediately when it’ll go down in price just couple of months after.

 

[IAmRei]

Most GAAS breakout hits have essentially 0 marketing. Word of mouth is too effective there.

Big IP AAA single player games like Spider-Man have the gigantic marketing budgets.

There is no single game without 0 marketing. Even just posting in social media with one hashtag, is called marketing.

And it is obvious, if you do games with even $10000 budget, you will still need to market. Even just asking to certain reviewer even on steam.

I onve ask for my game to be reviewed, the reviewer ask some xxx money, he is not even medium level. He is small, even he is asked for marketing budget from us. Then the question is, is the big names arrives, will reviewer ask money? Yes of course, they will still required.

Marketing, how small it is, still need the budget at slightest.

I know how it works, i work and own small indies as well. And no, my network is also vast even just small fry in the ocean, i know some medium names, also using the same trick.

You are delusional if you said 0 budget.

 

[Clear]

Sorry, but the great "awokening" is playing a substantial role too.

Crazy thought; maybe they should start giving the audience what they want and drop the moral speechifying and socio-political taking of sides?

 

[Killer8]

Almost all of these problems start with the developers themselves.

Lack of innovation stems from a lack of creativity. If you don't have it, you probably shouldn't be in the industry.

Mismanagement is an internal issue within developers, often caused by disagreement and infighting. You hear constantly about projects having to be restarted. Part of that is a result of no clear vision (see above). That isn't caused by the 'market'.

Too much competition also leads directly from a lack of innovation. If everything looks the same then the game with the most polish is simply going to steal away the players. If you can't directly compete, step over the competition with something new.

Costs being too high is due to their own insane ambition. Stop creating 50+ hour open world games which nobody finishes. Hollywood wouldn't waste $250 million on 2.5 hour movies if most audiences tapped out after 45 minutes.

Investor expectations don't magically affect sales, which are low as a result of all of the above factors.

Lack of consumer demand and 'too much competition from other forms of entertainment' are the real reasons and should've taken the lion's share of the chart.

 

[Gaiff]

Seems to me you either have to have hugely popular IPs and keep feeding those fans like CoD, GTA, Nintendo, etc…. Or you need to make a game that catches on with streamers and tiktok like Palworld and Helldivers.

This game came out a few months ago, had a big budget, and look at the state of it now. Unmitigated disaster. And the crazy thing is everyone saw this coming months before release besides apparently the devs and publisher.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

There is no single game without 0 marketing. Even just posting in social media with one hashtag, is called marketing.

And it is obvious, if you do games with even $10000 budget, you will still need to market. Even just asking to certain reviewer even on steam.

I onve ask for my game to be reviewed, the reviewer ask some xxx money, he is not even medium level. He is small, even he is asked for marketing budget from us. Then the question is, is the big names arrives, will reviewer ask money? Yes of course, they will still required.

Marketing, how small it is, still need the budget at slightest.

I know how it works, i work and own small indies as well. And no, my network is also vast even just small fry in the ocean, i know some medium names, also using the same trick.

You are delusional if you said 0 budget.

When I say "0 marketing" it can be assumed it's exaggeration. It's how humans talk.

Compare Helldivers 2 (the fastest selling PlayStation Studios game in history) marketing to Spiderman 2018. Multiplayer games utilize word of mouth in crazy effective ways. These companies know this.

 

[ReBurn]

I get being frustrated with investor expectations, but I don't see how these problems start with that. If you don't like the terms that come with investor money then don't do the project or get the money somewhere else.

It is very common for investor money to fund product development. To raise capital, company management will pitch a proposal to investors (or the board that represents investors) that outlines what is being built, how long it's going to take to build it, how much it's going to cost, and what the expected return is going to be. It is not unreasonable for investors to expect the return they were promised for the money they invested. If a project falls behind or goes over budget it's not typically because of investor expectations, it's because management didn't manage properly or the development team couldn't deliver on what they committed to. Or maybe a bit of both. Sometimes things happen that are beyond control, but that's not always the case. Most of the time if investors have unreasonable expectations it's because management set unreasonable expectations.

What I don't see on the list, even though I don't find it at all surprising considering who was polled, is an entry for "developers just didn't get it done." I've been building software and leading development teams for nearly 30 years and it has been my experience that developers rarely reflect on their own ability as a reason for increased dev costs or missed timelines. It's always bad requirements or unreasonable expectations. It's never "I know it's due tomorrow and I know I should have told you sooner, but my team did this wrong and we spent two weeks going down the wrong path. It's going to take two more weeks to get this done the right way. Sorry I didn't tell anyone in the daily scrums that we were having issues, but we need to move this to the next sprint." And I get it. When I spent all day building functionality I didn't want to admit that part of the deficiency sat with me.

 

[Deerock71]

There's a whole lot of western devs that ignored the Switch, and wonder what has happened to all the software sales. The fact of the matter is there's only so many entertainment dollars to suck up, and the well's resources are getting pretty stretched thin when you ignore the hardware that's sold a billion pieces of software and counting. Just saying.