• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

700+ Ubisoft France staff walk out on a three-day strike in dispute over home working and pay

Jinxed

Member
This. Although I would question a company is obligated to keep these promises, it’s kinda like a promise of being promoted - don’t count on it before it happens.
Not legally obligated no, you're right. It's just really shitty. Asking your boss if WFH is here to stay so you can finally move from a big town, where renting costs as much as a rural house, being told yes and then all of a sudden having to commute for 4 hours a day.

And before someone says get a new job, yeah good luck finding work that will pay as much in a rural area now.
 
Last edited:

Kurimao

Member
Sweet Baby Inc:
CTKcWyf.gif
 
Do you think they will win any favors treating their employees this way? If morale is lower, then the quality of work will suffer, and so will the company.
Just drop the whole France area. The fact they still doing work at home now. No point. Start a new studio somewhere else
 

Cyberpunkd

Member
Not legally obligated no, you're right. It's just really shitty. Asking your boss if WFH is here to stay so you can finally move from a big town, where renting costs as much as a rural house, being told yes and then all of a sudden having to commute for 4 hours a day.

And before someone says get a new job, yeah good luck finding work that will pay as much in a rural area now.
True, but again - for this type of decision you better had ironclad commitment from the employer. Evening you do - what happens if you want to change jobs? You will always be limited by working at companies with very flexible wfh policies. It’s a give and take, you can’t have it all.
 
Yves, I'll make this simple for you.

If they don't want to come back to the office, fire them. During hard times for your business you need dedicated soldiers, not these lackadaisical slackers.
Will working in the office stop them from producing shit like AC: Shadows and Outlaws?
 
Last edited:

EDMIX

Writes a lot, says very little
Nows the right time to do it!

Respect

I've been working at home for over a decade plus and the most money I've ever made in my life has been working from home. You have a great deal of freedom to choose where you work when its from home. It means if the company sucks, go ahead and slide over that Indeed annnnnnnnnnd now you working for Take 2 lol

No long ass drive or plane ride, no massive move, no changing your kids school, spouse etc, nah...fuck all that lol

Click and click annnnnd we working here now lol

If you working from home and about that Nomad life, fight for it. It will open more doors then you realize and working is already stressful to be adding in a car bill, car insurance, traffic and all this other shit.
 

StereoVsn

Gold Member
True, but again - for this type of decision you better had ironclad commitment from the employer. Evening you do - what happens if you want to change jobs? You will always be limited by working at companies with very flexible wfh policies. It’s a give and take, you can’t have it all.
Yep, this is why even though I work from home about half the time, I never moved further out. You never know what happens with your job and it’s much easier to find another if you are willing to commute in.

Now days remote job listings literally get thousands of hits. It’s very hard to get in unless you have connections.
 
said the diktat to be in the office at least three days per week going forward was "the straw that broke the camel's back."



oh-fuck-off-go-away.gif
Well, let’s be real for minute or two. Assuming they were actually able to work from home the past 4 years, they probably built their life around that by now. Perhaps some people were even hired under these conditions. Changing all that now from one day to the other… I‘d probably be pissed as well depending on the situation I‘m in.
 
Nows the right time to do it!

Respect

I've been working at home for over a decade plus and the most money I've ever made in my life has been working from home. You have a great deal of freedom to choose where you work when its from home. It means if the company sucks, go ahead and slide over that Indeed annnnnnnnnnd now you working for Take 2 lol

No long ass drive or plane ride, no massive move, no changing your kids school, spouse etc, nah...fuck all that lol

Click and click annnnnd we working here now lol

If you working from home and about that Nomad life, fight for it. It will open more doors then you realize and working is already stressful to be adding in a car bill, car insurance, traffic and all this other shit.
It's amazing we live in a time period where we can stream a 4k movie across millions of users but they can't make a job that operates in a similar manner.
 
Last edited:

IDKFA

I am Become Bilbo Baggins
They should be fired on the spot. It's outrageous that with their company on freefall and games plagued by bugs, they behave as if nothing of this were their fault.

They can't be fired. The right to strike is protected by French law. Similar to here in the UK if union members vote to strike, they can't lose their jobs for it.

Most of the world doesn't have the same dystopian working laws as the US.
 

nikos

Member
Last time I didn't show up to work three days in a row was because I never intended on returning. If you don't like your job, find a new one.

Or work there forever and be miserable for the rest of your life. Be a man reference.
 

Soodanim

Member
I won’t be so confidently ignorant as to comment without knowing the full context.

But I do wonder about the collaborative experience of a creative project when people are remote. Teams calls just aren’t the same as people in a room together. Games won't be bad just because of remote working, but I would imagine the lack of in person has some effect.
 

Embearded

Member
Ubisoft games quality is pretty much on the same level it was 10 years ago, so it's not the wfh to blame here. They created the "ubisoft game" stereotype themselves by releasing the same games again and again, or by chasing trends and releasing games 5 years too late after the genre has been saturated.

Personally i am much more productive when i work from home. I stay focused for longer periods of time and i can do overtime much easier if it is required.
Most people talking shit about wfh are just jealous.

I can understand information security concerns, of course this is very hard to control when you have 700+ hundred people working remotely
 

Cyberpunkd

Member
I won’t be so confidently ignorant as to comment without knowing the full context.

But I do wonder about the collaborative experience of a creative project when people are remote. Teams calls just aren’t the same as people in a room together. Games won't be bad just because of remote working, but I would imagine the lack of in person has some effect.
Of course. No matter what dystopian tech bros are trying to convince the whole world - people are social animals. I would be very cautious of any worker that will say „I’m perfectly happy never meeting my colleagues in person”, which is what full wfh policy is. You end up with groups full of antisocial people.
 

GHG

Member
Do you think they will win any favors treating their employees this way? If morale is lower, then the quality of work will suffer, and so will the company.

Since when is asking employees to come in to the office for 3 days a week treating them poorly?
 
Last edited:

xrnzaaas

Member
You can quit your job if you don't like working in the office. Remote model doesn't have to last forever, especially if it's not working in terms of productivity (and it seems so).

I remember that Techland has introduced a much shittier requirement by forcing people to switch to the hybrid model even if they're working abroad. So pretty much used this opportunity to have people quit jobs themselves without performing mass layoffs.
 
Last edited:

PeteBull

Member
is it true french people just love to protest?
Back durning ww2 my grandpa got caught by germans in so called round up( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Łapanka ) and put into arbeitskamp(slave labor camp) deep into germany, he told me few french ppl were there too and they were the laziest ppl he ever met, but it was so long ago and in extreme circumstances so cant really draw much of conclusion really :p
 

Xtib81

Member
People have become so lazy post COVID. I mean, I can get behind the work from home concept, but if it's not as effective for game development, then they should absolutely go back to work.
 

Skifi28

Member
Kicking your employer while they're down might not be the best course of action if you wish to stay employed. I wonder if there'll be a Ubisoft to go back to once their protest is done. I hear China is lovely this time of year, maybe they can protest there.
 
Last edited:

Beechos

Member
Unless it's written in a formal signed contract I dont see how it can be enforced.

It's like a company saying everyone gets half day Fridays in a memo. If the company decides to cancel some or all of the Friday half days, what's someone going to do? Sue the company?
Yep unless it's a formal contract that says 100% work from home. Otherwise a company will always say the "change in conditions and having to apadt to business needs line."
 

A2una1

Member
I wish I could work from home. It’s 2024 and three days a week in the office is too much? Get fucking wrecked. Spoiled brats making video games need to shut the fuck up and do some real work instead of this entitled soft nonsense. Go back to work on your shitty, monetized, disrespectful, clueless, tone deaf software or get the fuck out. /spice
I'm working constantly in Home Office, and I'm way more productive at home in comparison when I'm in the Office. You get constantly interrupted with minor and unneccessary chit chat....
 

SJRB

Gold Member
Yves, I'll make this simple for you.

If they don't want to come back to the office, fire them. During hard times for your business you need dedicated soldiers, not these lackadaisical slackers.

Clueless. You realize any company is 100% dependent on their employees, right? Do you think they can just acquire 700 new devs overnight without it being a catastrophic disruption of workflow, knowledge and overall quality? The costs and loss of productivity that comes with firing, acquiring and training 700 people are staggering.

Ubi needs to realize that WFH is here to stay. Adapt or die.
 

Calico345

Gold Member
I'm working constantly in Home Office, and I'm way more productive at home in comparison when I'm in the Office. You get constantly interrupted with minor and unneccessary chit chat....

I was hot-headed and spicy in that post. My subsequent post is a bit more even and articulate. I'm not against WFH, nor do I think it isn't productive. In this particular context however, video game developers need to stop saying that working three days a week in office is the "straw that broke the camel's back," especially when they're working for one of the most publicly maligned publishing houses in the industry at the moment. It reeks of entitlement to me. If they have a hill to die on, I hope it amounts to something substantially more important than that.
 

GHG

Member
Clueless. You realize any company is 100% dependent on their employees, right? Do you think they can just acquire 700 new devs overnight without it being a catastrophic disruption of workflow, knowledge and overall quality? The costs and loss of productivity that comes with firing, acquiring and training 700 people are staggering.

Ubi needs to realize that WFH is here to stay. Adapt or die.

They are allowing their employees to WFH 2 days a week out of 5. Since when did that become unreasonable?

In light of how the company and their products have been performing I'm surprised they haven't abolished it entirely.

Based on current circumstances, the bigger picture might be that these 700 devs are exactly the types of people they don't want to employ anymore, so short term disruption turns in to long term gain. What's the alternative, appease these people and they continue to churn out shit products for the rest of eternity while Ubisoft continue on their current trajectory? At some point you need to say enough is enough and make some changes.
 

Laptop1991

Member
Because of the way Ubisoft has treated their "customers" which is how they see their fans now, and have abused all trust, not many will side with them even if they have a point or are in the right, me included, it's called karma lol. i don't care about Ubisoft anymore.
 

Jakk

Member
Clueless. You realize any company is 100% dependent on their employees, right? Do you think they can just acquire 700 new devs overnight without it being a catastrophic disruption of workflow, knowledge and overall quality? The costs and loss of productivity that comes with firing, acquiring and training 700 people are staggering.

Ubi needs to realize that WFH is here to stay. Adapt or die.
He has no idea what he's talking about, just like 90% of people in this thread who have never worked in a big, multinational corporation, and they are salty because their jobs can't be done from home.

Most of communication in these companies is done via platforms like Teams, anyway, especially when you need to cooperate with someone from abroad. So i really don't get what is the benefit of losing time commuting to the overcrowded office, where you have tons of people on different meetings shouting over each other. But it's pointless trying to argue, these people are just too brainwashed.
 
Last edited:

Zathalus

Member
There is very little functionally difference between working from home and talking to your coworkers on teams or slack, or doing so in the office. You can go to the office once a week for your weekly refinement/planning or whatever.
 

SJRB

Gold Member
They are allowing their employees to WFH 2 days a week out of 5. Since when did that become unreasonable?

In light of how the company and their products have been performing I'm surprised they haven't abolished it entirely.

Based on current circumstances, the bigger picture might be that these 700 devs are exactly the types of people they don't want to employ anymore, so short term disruption turns in to long term gain. What's the alternative, appease these people and they continue to churn out shit products for the rest of eternity while Ubisoft continue on their current trajectory? At some point you need to say enough is enough and make some changes.

All I read in this post is a bunch of conjecture. Assumptions, maybe's and might be's.

The idea that WFH is the root cause of the company's problems and WFH is what makes Ubi games bad, and dragging people back to an office will somehow fix this is ridiculous. There is nothing you can do in an office that you can't do from home, provided everyone has been given the proper resources and you have competent management.

My two cents is that the real problem is the latter.
 

winjer

Gold Member
They are allowing their employees to WFH 2 days a week out of 5. Since when did that become unreasonable?

In light of how the company and their products have been performing I'm surprised they haven't abolished it entirely.

Based on current circumstances, the bigger picture might be that these 700 devs are exactly the types of people they don't want to employ anymore, so short term disruption turns in to long term gain. What's the alternative, appease these people and they continue to churn out shit products for the rest of eternity while Ubisoft continue on their current trajectory? At some point you need to say enough is enough and make some changes.

It's very likely that Ubisoft knows the productivity levels of each worker.
They could very easily use extra days working from home, as a reward for maintaining productivity.
This would reward those who put in the effort, but also encourage those who are slacking of, to improve.
 
I work 3 days from home and 2 days in the office, within multi-discipline teams on projects with scopes, not huge, not small, of say €30/40 mio. My experience is that the 2 days in the office are a must to get everyone aligned and the train moving. We wouldn't be able to meet our deadlines/planning if we didn't meet in the office.
 

GHG

Member
All I read in this post is a bunch of conjecture. Assumptions, maybe's and might be's.

The idea that WFH is the root cause of the company's problems and WFH is what makes Ubi games bad, and dragging people back to an office will somehow fix this is ridiculous.

Nowhere did I make any suggestion that WFH was the root cause of the company's issues. However, what removing it does is provide you with a litmus test in terms of the attitudes prevalent in your employees and workplace.

There is nothing you can do in an office that you can't do from home, provided everyone has been given the proper resources and you have competent management.

Speaking of assumptions...

My two cents is that the real problem is the latter.

I would sway towards both being the issue. Incompetent management often hire incompetent people. Competent employees are also typically unwilling to accept jobs at places with incompetent management. Considering how long this company has been around and how excessively large they are, peas in a pod springs to mind.
 
Last edited:

RJMacready73

Simps for Amouranth
Tbh isn't game development a collaborative effort and whilst teams is good, you simply can't beat honest to goodness face to face discussion down at the canteen or walking to the toilet and getting interrupted and then having an impromptu chat, you lose out on that collaboration especially around design and technical related issues where a bunch of people can grab a meeting room, throw up a white board or screen and go through issues...
 

Jakk

Member
It's very likely that Ubisoft knows the productivity levels of each worker.
They could very easily use extra days working from home, as a reward for maintaining productivity.
This would reward those who put in the effort, but also encourage those who are slacking of, to improve.
How do you think these companies measure "productivity"? From my experience, most of the time it's clueless people looking at data they don't understand. They only see how many issues were done in a certain unit of time, and they don't care about any context. For example, is a junior dev who finishes let's say ten smaller tasks in two weeks more productive than a senior dev, who is working on a much harder tasks, and only manages to finish two in two weeks?
 

Z O N E

Member
I said it before and I'll say it again...

NOT EVERY JOB IS A WORK FROM HOME TYPE OF JOB.

Creativity jobs like Game Development just do not work as good as they do in an office. Sorry, not sorry and what's funny is that these last couple of years have PROVEN that Work From Home does NOT work as good for Game Development.

Especially when you're supposed to be going around to other people, seeing their work, maybe test playing it quickly with others, providing quick insights/suggestions, all of that is simple if it's in an office and you just pull up a chair.
 
Last edited:

winjer

Gold Member
How do you think these companies measure "productivity"? From my experience, most of the time it's clueless people looking at data they don't understand. They only see how many issues were done in a certain unit of time, and they don't care about any context. For example, is a junior dev who finishes let's say ten smaller tasks in two weeks more productive than a senior dev, who is working on a much harder tasks, and only manages to finish two in two weeks?

But that is an issue with bad management.
 

POKEYCLYDE

Member
Employees have ZERO leverage. What are they going to say? "Without US, you can't release these garbage games that are losing you hundreds of millions!"

The sad fact is firing the lot of them would actually result in their stock price rising. Rumor is that 40% of staff will be cut if they sell anyway, might as well up their value before selling.
 
Yves, I'll make this simple for you.

If they don't want to come back to the office, fire them. During hard times for your business you need dedicated soldiers, not these lackadaisical slackers.
Your whole thesis is wrong, tho. Yves is the problem. Change starts at the top, not the bottom. If the culture isn’t good, it’s because he creates a bad culture and it permeates down. And I guarantee you he doesn’t work 3 days a week in the office. He just makes bad calls from one of his seven giant mansions scattered across the globe.
 

The Cockatrice

I'm retarded?
They are allowing their employees to WFH 2 days a week out of 5. Since when did that become unreasonable?

Its not, however the WFH surge has proven that there never really was a reason not to WFH and it's the only good thing to come out of covid. You have a small point, in that certain people are lazier at home, but you're putting honest people in the same bucket as a few idiots which is completely unfair and you know it. WFH has been a blessing for families and lower income folks or people who had to commute before.

Relevant

 
I said it before and I'll say it again...

NOT EVERY JOB IS A WORK FROM HOME TYPE OF JOB.

Creativity jobs like Game Development just do not work as good as they do in an office. Sorry, not sorry and what's funny is that these last couple of years have PROVEN that Work From Home does NOT work as good for Game Development.

Especially when you're supposed to be going around to other people, seeing their work, maybe test playing it quickly with others, providing quick insights/suggestiongs, all of that is simple if it's in an office and you jsut pull up a chair.



I don't understand how this can be argued.

Besides, this is not a discussion WFH versus presential. Ubisoft is in a dire situation and grown-up workers should feel a bare minimum of accountability and understand their petty demands can't be met. They behave like teenage popstars while their performance is shit.
 
I understand there are many corpo slaves still but many people have realized that life is not about giving half of your existence to a shitty company who just pretends that “we are family” but if something happens will get rid of you in a second because you are just fucking number to them. And this involves that you don’t want to waste time and money just to be in a noisy office that most of the time negatively affects production. Yes, there are people who will cheat and don’t work as they should while being in home office, but why punish everyone because of that? Punish the individual and not collectively those too who are doing their best at home because they want to be free ASAP to do what they like. Working at a corpo is not a hobby for normal people but something that is required in order to be able to do what you like in life. Being a fucking slave is not the purpose of life.
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom