• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

A Dance with Dragons |OT| - Read the rules or Melisandre casts magic missile

D

Deleted member 1235

Unconfirmed Member
is there a plot summary up for the last books on a good website somewhere? It's really been a while and there is one of the chapters around number 5 I think, where I just can't even remember how the dude fit's in the story. I've forgotten stuff :(
 

Angst

Member
catfish said:
is there a plot summary up for the last books on a good website somewhere? It's really been a while and there is one of the chapters around number 5 I think, where I just can't even remember how the dude fit's in the story. I've forgotten stuff :(
Yep: http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Category:Books

And: http://towerofthehand.com/books/guide.html

Spoilers, obviously. You can even read chapter summaries if you feel so inclined.
Towe of the Hand is my favourite - if you click on a character's name you will get different info based on the "scope" you select. So if you've only read the first two books for example you won't get spoilered.
 

Tacitus_

Member
Up to p650
Fuck yeah, Arya. Her blindness allowed her to slip into the cat and skip a part of her lesson. And the Dorne chapters are sweet, I wonder what happens when the Golden Company lands...
 
Rez said:
Having not read any of this thread, I'm just chiming in and saying I'm about to start this series for the first time. Hooray for me.

First two books are more political intrigue. After that it becomes a lot more like other fantasy novels (only with GRRM's mean twists). But it's still awesome throughout. Hope you enjoy it man.

Tyrion 3:
On third Tyrion chapter now and man his story has really picked up steam again, I'm really enjoying these new companions. Possible Bronn substitutes here?
 

Gambit

Member
I had to meet my professor regarding my dissertation, so I could only resume reading today and have now finished it.

So, here is my overall opinion. It might change upon further reflection, but not much.

The book really shows that it’s the other half of Feast. Spoilers for the whole book
The plot advances very slowly, which at times makes the book hard to read. While reading, you at least have the hope that all plotlines will eventually lead somewhere, but the closer you get to the end of the book, the more you realize that many of them will remain unresolved. All in all, it only moves the storyline marginally further than Feast.

The biggest offender in this regard is Tyrion’s plot. His quest to get to Dany should have lead to a more satisfactory conclusion. At least he should have reached Mereen (and not just the fighting pits). Even if Dany is not there, it would have improved his storyline. It was a good story, albeit slow, when he travelled with Griff and then Ser Jorah. The slavery part was absolutely awful.

Something similar can be said for Davos. I like his storyline and his mission to find Rickon. It feels cheap, however, that he embarks on it halfway through the book and then never reappears.

Now on to the good parts. Bran’s chapters are the best in the book. Unfortunately, there are too few of them. Furthermore, I loved Barristan’s POV. The whole Dany storyline was dull and moving at a snail’s pace. Once Barristan took over, it was much more compelling. In fact, I wish the rest of the Mereen events would have been told through his eyes, even with Dany present.

Last but not least, Jon’s chapters. I really enjoyed them up until the very end. His demise at the hands of his brothers made me want to rip the book apart. I am so invested in his character and spent so much time with him that I felt betrayed he would die. I am still hopeful that he will live on and somehow turn out to be the Azor Ahai. Melisandre did say she always saw his face when she wanted to see her Azor Ahai, so I will withhold judgment. Should he, however, only live on in Ghost, then I might be done with the series (said he before buying the next book…in a couple years).

There are only a limited number of character deaths that I can accept instead of character development. Doing it with Eddard was great. Robb was brutal but genius. I cannot stomach another Stark death, though. Not even Sansa, whom I like much more since Feast. In fact, I hope she will learn Littlefinger’s trade.

In the end, I will henceforth treat Dance as Book 4 part 2. So I still expect three more before the series will be finished (if it ever is).
 
Oh hell yes. Just got to
Reek's (Theon)
First Chapter... right after Daenerys 2nd chapter....

Damn i feel
Sorry for him. I hope he gets through this.
 

Telosfortelos

Advocate for the People
Bran II
Holy shit, awesome chapter. I was listening to the end of Shostakovitch's 7th during the fight with the wights, and that made it all the more intense. I only noticed in my last read through of Feast that Bloodraven had been lord commander of the Night's Watch (I read the short stories in succession just before Feast), and now this? 1000 eyes and one he said, and "a bloody blotch that crept up his neck onto his cheek". Very awesome, now I can't wait for more Dunk & Eggs.
aceface said:
Bran II:
Holyshitholyshitholyshitholyshit The Bloodraven theorists will sure be happy
I hadn't read any Bloodraven theories, and I'm glad I hadn't. I'll have to track down clues after I finish the book.
 

Seanspeed

Banned
I finished A Feast for Crows on July 11th(dragged it out so I could immediately jump into Dance with Dragons the next day) and I've gotta say that I'm enjoying the new book ten times more than I did Feast. I think Feast's biggest fault was that the chapters didn't end in 'need-to-know-what-happens-next' cliffhangers. I kept reading cuz I wanted to know what happened next, but before, it was because I needed to. I'm getting the same feeling back with ADWD, which is fantastic. Only 200 pages in, but I feel like I'm back in the world again after a brief lull with AFFC.
 

Dresden

Member
The cliffhanger chapters are lame. He uses them almost every chapter, feels like, and they have no impact whatsoever anymore.
 

Seanspeed

Banned
Dresden said:
The cliffhanger chapters are lame. He uses them almost every chapter, feels like, and they have no impact whatsoever anymore.
Its like a good TV show series. They almost always end with cliffhangers to keep you interested, but that doesn't mean they wear out. The point is that interesting things are happening. You cant have a cliffhanger when nothing really happens, which is the problem that Feast had. It was a lot of world-building and whatnot, which is fine, but not for almost an entire book. Feels like shits happening again - and thank god for that.
 

CrankyJay

Banned
<3 Amazon Prime. They overnighted this for me even though I picked 2 day.

Now the dilemma...listen to all the books again on audiobook or just dig right into it.
 

Meier

Member
I am about 11% through and wasn't really all that hooked initially because I was getting deja vu in the Jon chapters and the Dornish one was absolutely uninteresting IMO but I just got past Sam being sent away and Jon went full-on badass so I'm getting pumped.

Also, has this been posted? Well done GRRM!

George R.R. Martin's A Dance With Dragons, book five in his epic "A Song of Ice and Fire' series, had the highest single and first-day sales of any new fiction title published this year: 298,000 copies in print, digital, and audio formats, publisher Random House announced today.

On Tuesday, sales of 170,000 hardcovers (26% of the 650,000 pre-publication printings); 110,000 e-books; and 18,000 audio books were reported sold.
http://books.usatoday.com/bookbuzz/...orge-rr-martins-a-dance-with-dragons/176909/1
 
D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
Holy shit at hardcover to ebook sales ratio. I had no idea ebooks were so popular already.

I bought both.
 

Meier

Member
Zefah said:
Holy shit at hardcover to ebook sales ratio. I had no idea ebooks were so popular already.
There is probably a greater spread in most cases.. his audience is more likely to be tech savvy I'm guessing. I definitely went Kindle.

Another interesting note in that article is that the series has moved another 4 million this year to bring it to 8.5 million total.
 
D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
Meier said:
There is probably a greater spread in most cases.. his audience is more likely to be tech savvy I'm guessing. I definitely went Kindle.

Another interesting note in that article is that the series has moved another 4 million this year to bring it to 8.5 million total.

Crazy... almost double!

Go HBO show!
 

Dresden

Member
Seanspeed said:
Its like a good TV show series. They almost always end with cliffhangers to keep you interested, but that doesn't mean they wear out. The point is that interesting things are happening. You cant have a cliffhanger when nothing really happens, which is the problem that Feast had. It was a lot of world-building and whatnot, which is fine, but not for almost an entire book. Feels like shits happening again - and thank god for that.
If interesting things are happening then the strength of those events alone would carry the momentum forward. This is a book, not a TV show.
 

bathala

Banned
After reading Sam's story from Feast then Jon and Sam scene is like some Lost flashback.

and that Jon II chapter. fucking boss
 
CrankyJay said:
<3 Amazon Prime. They overnighted this for me even though I picked 2 day.

Now the dilemma...listen to all the books again on audiobook or just dig right into it.


I used to have prime but realized that I didn't need it since I must be close to a distribution center. Everything I order comes in 3 days. I ordered this with standard shipping and got it on the 13th at 11:00 AM.
 

Azrael

Member
Only about 40% through the book but
I'm starting to doubt whether Dany will ever return to Westeros, or will stay in Essos and send men and dragons to support the other dragon heads conquest of the west instead.
 

tino

Banned
Dresden said:
The cliffhanger chapters are lame. He uses them almost every chapter, feels like, and they have no impact whatsoever anymore.
After a while I just gave up and start reading Tyrion chapters first. Dany chapters don`t seem to do anything do me.
 

luxarific

Nork unification denier
Just finished it. Spoilers for all chapters: As stated previously, it's definitely
Book 4, Part 2. I suspect that people who are looking for more plot and character developments than what we got with AFFC probably won't be hugely pleased with ADWD.

I liked the focus on Theon, Tyrion, and Jon, and the chapters on Melisandre, Arya and Bran (should have been several more of these three), but I think the Quentyn Martell subplot probably could have been excised completely, given its ultimate resolution. I think it's pretty obvious that Jon is not dead, so I'm not particularly worried about him. The Ironborn (save Theon), continue to not be that interesting. I did like Cersei's walk of shame and Kevan's chapter (poor guy).

For the first time ever, I found the Daenerys chapters tedious to get through, as they consist mostly of more self-doubt and boring politicking. The Barristan chapters almost make up for the dullness of Daenerys's, but there's not enough of these to counterbalance the plodding experience that is getting through Dany's chapters. Even the eventual reappearance of Drogo and Dany's first flight weren't enough to make me care about her anymore, her chapters are just that dull.

I think I'm a bit depressed after reading the book, not because it's especially bad, but because, even though significant plot and character developments do occur (most importantly the reappearance of Aegon), the book still feels like a whole lot of prep work and character placement for books six and onward. I never got that sense with the three books prior to AFFC, and even AFFC felt fresher and possessed more momentum than ADWD, imo.

And of course, the knowledge that it's going to be at least two years until we see anything new in this universe casts its own shadow over the book. Hopefully GRRM will have exorcised his "knot" demons with ADWD and the narrative will start flowing again. If book six feels as stagnant as ADWD did, I think I'll just wait until all the books are out to finish up the series.

Personal ranking of books in the series (from most to least enjoyable): ASOS, AGOT, ACOK, AFFC, ADWD
 
luxarific said:
And of course, the knowledge that it's going to be at least two years until we see anything new in this universe casts its own shadow over the book.

Two years? Are you thinking about the next Dunk and Egg novel, because GRRM isn't even resuming work on the series until 2012. And from there an optimistic estimate would be he gets the book done in 3 or 4 years.
 

luxarific

Nork unification denier
Basileus777 said:
Two years? Are you thinking about the next Dunk and Egg novel, because GRRM isn't even resuming work on the series until 2012. And from there an optimistic estimate would be he gets the book done in 3 or 4 years.

Eh, hadn't realized that. Amend my statement to 3-4 years. :(

elrechazao said:
haha, you still wish.

Almost surely.
And I don't see how he wraps this up in just two more books, either, given how many new characters and subplots he introduced in AFFC/ADWD and little ADWD moved things along.

:(
 

Flare

Member
<Jon II/Page 111 of Hardcover>
Fuck yea, Jon.

It feels so cool to read chapters from another point of view.
 

Gruco

Banned
So many thoughts. Pounded it out in a couple days and still letting it stew. Much to think on, and much may change in a reread, but (full book spoilers):

Regarding cheers and jeers character archs:

Favorites:

Tyrion, whole arch. Completely stole the show, I thought. He took on the same role as Arya in Storm, or Brienne in Feast, but in a completely different world. And he was perfect for it. This is the character who wanted to follow in the footsteps of his missing uncle and see the lands across the narrow sea, and who went to the wall because it was there, but had never been allowed to leave Westeros. I loved seeing the journey and sights slowly brought him back, and how we saw how horrible and cruel the lands of Essos could be. In a way, he’s the moral compass of the entire story – he reminds us of what’s at stake should Dany leave the bay to the slavers.

Theon, whole arch. Amazing writing. Also a slow recovery story, but in much more dramatic terms. Ramsay did not need to be solidified as much more of a villain, but bloody hell, mission accomplished. GRRM’s love of repetitive thoughts (“rhymes with ___” and “remember your name)” were much more powerful here than they typically are, as they give us an up close look at Theon’s mindfuck. I am probably more inclined to be sympathetic to Theon anyway, as I’ve always found him more pitiful than villainous. It was lovely to see him slowly remember who he was, albeit sad and painful. Also Mance’s elite spearwife storm troopers were kind of awesome.

Jon Snow, final chapter. This one was satisfying because you could feel the noose slipping around him the entire book. He really wasn’t often wrong (though his plan to lead an expedition to hardhome was probably too ambitious), but he pushed too hard, too soon, and had too few allowances for the men who weren’t able to move at his speed. Marsh and Yarwick were good men, as he said, yet he did nothing to make it appear as though he may think of them that way. Sent away his friends, took in the wildlings too quickly, walked to close to the line to Stannis, and jumped over it with his last act. It was still kind of shocking, though he should have known better. Really, from the second Ramsay’s letter arrived, this chapter has you on tilt.

The wolves. Arya, Bran, and Manderly. Arya’s and Bran’s chapters were obvious – deeper glimpses into the complexity of the world we’ve seen hints about since GOT. Wyman Manderly…the north remembers. He and Doran Martell would be great friends, I think.

Aegon VI. As stupid as I thought the baby Aegon theories were, I really liked this kid. We spend all this time thinking about Dany’s Targaryen invasion, and here we have another play hidden all along. I don’t recall Doran’s exact words, but it was something like “we prince’s make such plans, and the gods make cruel japes of them all.” But the truth is, I like the Gold Company, I like Connington, and I like baby Aegon. I wish the best. I also love that at the end of the say, we’re still ultimately just watching the schemes of Varys and Littlefinger.

Worst bits:

Dany was utterly useless. She did nothing, did nothing, walked into traps, and did nothing. Let the Yunkai’I walk all over her. Bent over for the Harpy. Etc. Etc. Etc. I have some hopes that this will end satisfactorily, but not much. Last chapter was not interesting, particularly, even for what it was trying to do.

Quentyn. Why did we even need him?

The Stannis arch, ending with the pink letter, sans battle. Really, the problem with this book is that it’s just incomplete. Build up to the battle of Winterfell, battle of Meereen, no satisfying ending. For the first three books having such clear beginnings and ends, and the whole point of the split being to get a full story in, this was horribly unsatisfying. A lot of the King’s Landing POVs didn’t move stuff forward that much anyway.

Prediction for the future:

Jon – I imagine we haven’t seen the last of him, thought it would be nice. The AA possibility, the kiss of life possibility, the warg escape…it would be nice if we were rid of him though. More interesting will be the story behing the pink letter, and why Ramsay felt it necessary to provoke Jon.

Dany – Had to remember who she was, which could mean one of two things. 1) She is Westerosi, not Ghiscari, and sets sail. 2) She is fire and blood, not a peacemaker. I hope, for the second. From the Dothraki sea to Quarth to Slaver’s Bay raids to this farce, she’s demonstrated that she’s actually useful and interesting when she brings fire and blood, and otherwise dull. I would love to see our expectations of Dany sailing to Westeros turned, and Westeros is left to Aegon VI, and Dany is, after having made a few scratches, left to chew the ugly core of slavery out of Essos. This means in addition the breaking the Ghiscari coalition, stopping the Dothraki from taking hostages, taming the pirates of Southros, and liberating Voltanis and perhaps the other free cities. I thought Tyrion’s chapter in Voltanis was particularly telling. The slaves there pray for her.
 

Big-E

Member
Jon II spoilers

So glad Jon is stepping up and killing losers like Slynt.

Best chapter so far and hope it picks up a bit now.
 

brentech

Member
I just finished Feast earlier today, so now I can start reading on my kindle, with this wonderful book. Hope everyone is enjoying it.
 

Kuro Madoushi

Unconfirmed Member
Just popped in to say that someone at work spoiled a big event concerning
xxxxxxxxx Jon.
FUCK

fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu 6 years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ck!
 
Seanspeed said:
Its like a good TV show series. They almost always end with cliffhangers to keep you interested, but that doesn't mean they wear out. The point is that interesting things are happening. You cant have a cliffhanger when nothing really happens, which is the problem that Feast had. It was a lot of world-building and whatnot, which is fine, but not for almost an entire book. Feels like shits happening again - and thank god for that.
Huh? AFFC has a lot of interesting things happening -- Dorne and the Iron Islands rising up to claim their piece of the pie, Littlefinger taking over total control of the Vale, Brienne showing us how the world has changed for the common folk, Cersei's big, big mistakes forcing her into a cell...

it's a lot more personal, less epic, but interesting things happen in Feast, contrary to what seems to be an error-ridden popular opinion.
 
D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
Kuro Madoushi said:
fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu 6 years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ck!

How about spoiling who that is about? Your reaction indicates that something terrible probably happens to that character, and while uncertain, I feel like you just spoiled me on it, too.
 
Honestly, dude, you should have just said "omg I got spoiled concerning a big event FUUUUUUUUUUUCK" then you had the stupidity to mention the character's name. JESUS.
 
D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
ZephyrFate said:
Honestly, dude, you should have just said "omg I got spoiled concerning a big event FUUUUUUUUUUUCK" then you had the stupidity to mention the character's name. JESUS.

Yeah, I mean, "fuuuuuuuuuck" in regards to a character tends to only mean one thing, but I'll remain cautiously optimistic.

Still. Common sense. Get some, please.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Daenarys, about 40% through the book (Kindle Edition):
JUST USE THE FUCKING DRAGONS ALREADY JESUS CHRIST.
 

methodman

Banned
That post about jon earlier... Ugh. Regardless what happens to him

I'm up to Bran 1 (been really busy to get seriously reading, but damn) this is soooo good
 

Coop

Member
Halycon said:
Daenarys, about 40% through the book (Kindle Edition):
JUST USE THE FUCKING DRAGONS ALREADY JESUS CHRIST.

Her chapters are the worst. I dont think Ive enjoyed one yet
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Coop said:
Her chapters are the worst. I dont think Ive enjoyed one yet
Indeed, with Reek chapters as a close second. They're bordering on torture porn.
 
D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
People are starting to be a little too open in their non-spoiler discussion, so I'm gonna bail until I'm much deeper in the book. It's too bad that people seem to be unable to read the OP.
 
Coop said:
Her chapters are the worst. I dont think Ive enjoyed one yet
If you pay attention more to the political problems at the forefront of her chapters, they become more enjoyable. I think I enjoy their philosophical notions about ruling moreso than what actually happens.
 

Seanspeed

Banned
Dresden said:
If interesting things are happening then the strength of those events alone would carry the momentum forward. This is a book, not a TV show.
Well in a way, it is much like a TV show in that you dont automatically see what happens next, due to the chapters being POV-based, rather than timeline-based. It keeps you hooked, waiting desperately to get to another 'Tyrion chapter' or whatever to see that part of the story continued.

Ok, Feast had somewhat interesting bits, but it was slow-paced and generally did not fill me with any desperate need to know what happens next, which was something the first 3 books did to me chapter-after-chapter. I think my biggest motivator for getting through it was being ready when the new book came out.
 
Seanspeed said:
Well in a way, it is much like a TV show in that you dont automatically see what happens next, due to the chapters being POV-based, rather than timeline-based. It keeps you hooked, waiting desperately to get to another 'Tyrion chapter' or whatever to see that part of the story continued.

Ok, Feast had somewhat interesting bits, but it was slow-paced and generally did not fill me with any desperate need to know what happens next, which was something the first 3 books did to me chapter-after-chapter. I think my biggest motivator for getting through it was being ready when the new book came out.
Both of these books are slow-paced. A lot of things happened in ASOS that could not have possibly kept going into the next books. The fact that people expected another fast-paced book after all that happened in ASOS just baffles me.

The slow pace actually helps show off Martin's prose better than ever before, as it is doing in ADWD (though nothing is happening). But there was enough going on in AFFC to keep my interest going the entire time, ESPECIALLY the final Cersei chapter. What a finale.
 
Finished the book, loved it. Bran's last chapter was AMAZING!

One thing I think some people might have missed (Ending spoilers):

Melisandre probably wrote that letter so Jon would be provoked to leave the Wall. Notice how she appeared for but a moment when he made his announcement? She probably knows now he is the one who is going to be reborn as Ashor. She always wanted to see AA and looked for Stannis but always saw Jon.

I disagree with most though, Jon's chapters always made me want to put the book down. It was like walking through mud. I finished the book in two days but his character ponders on a lot of useless things and I don't need a description of his keep or people every time he walks somewhere, I get it. A lot of fat could have been trimmed from his chapters and made more room so we could actually get some resolution to these characters.

And I don't know why anyone would be confused about Varys anymore. His goals are more clear to me now more than ever.

Not one story was really resolved though save for
Frog
and more questions were raised. ASoS is still my favorite.
 
Top Bottom