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A Dance with Dragons |OT| - Read the rules or Melisandre casts magic missile
- Thread starter Amir0x
- Start date
Brian Fellows
Pete Carroll Owns Me
Almost 400 pages in and Dany's chapters are still a chore to get through.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
Whoa @ Page 577.
Every time I start to think I know where things are going, they start twisting in new directions. I find myself doubting if there's any real way he can wrap this series is up in seven, though. An eighth book seems like almost a certainty right now.
With that Barristan instantly gives some credibility to the theories about Jaime/Cersei or Tyrion actually being the children of Aerys. I never really put much stock into the theory, but it seems like there might be something there.
Every time I start to think I know where things are going, they start twisting in new directions. I find myself doubting if there's any real way he can wrap this series is up in seven, though. An eighth book seems like almost a certainty right now.
Basileus777
Member
KuwabaraTheMan said:
7 books is definitely not enough. The question is if it will need 8 or 9 and if it really ever gets finished.
D
Deleted member 1235
Unconfirmed Member
Kuro Madoushi said:
fixed that for you. ass.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Almost 300 pages in. Jon and Tyrion's chapters have been great, Dany's have been alright. I've never been a fan of hers, and I've struggled a bit remembered who the various folks-with-ridiculous-names are. Some minor thoughts on her:
Sounds like she's fucked. Everyone seems to want to kill her, and multiple armies are gearing up. Her reign seems like a preview of what Stannis would do as king. She's just but has unyielding as Stannis, making enemies out of people who could have been allies/partners.
Finished the book earlier today. Minor spoilers:
Dany's chapters were as boring as her storyline was in CoK. Who gives a fuck about Daario? Her infatuation with him was starting to remind me of Sansa with Joffrey in GoT.
The highlights for me were: Tyrion, Bran, Barristan, and the Golden Company. I would have like to have seen at least 1 Sansa chapter, just to get an update on the situation in the Vale.
The highlights for me were: Tyrion, Bran, Barristan, and the Golden Company. I would have like to have seen at least 1 Sansa chapter, just to get an update on the situation in the Vale.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
I read late tonight and finished the book. I may think differently on it tomorrow but for tonight my opinion is that this is easily the weakest book in the series. Find out why in my spoilers below!
<Spoilers for the Entire Book>
End spoilers. I'll just wrap it up and say that this book felt overlong and bloated. Not a lot really happened and a lot of the chapters were boring for me. Kind of like AFFC but at least AFFC had the grace to be comparatively short and had some more interesting characters. When they get to these books in the show they should just gut them and cut out all the fat. Both AFFC and ADWD could probably done in ~ 12 episodes.
The story has changed and grown so much from where we began. And it's expanded into areas I don't really care for. New supporting characters that have arisen to take the place of fallen characters are largely less interesting and forgettable. I'm growing cold on this series. That's not to say that I won't pick up the Winds of Winter day one, because I certainly will, but however long it takes to come out, it will be an easy wait for me.
edit: oh fuck! How could I forget Bran? His chapters were great! A first for the series!
<Spoilers for the Entire Book>
The book is well written. Martin's writing skills have greatly improved since he first started writing the series. But that's about as high as my praise goes.
Jon: Of the main three characters, his chapters were the best in the book, but grew repetitive as the book went on. How many chapters do we need to see of him giving land and position to wildlings and pissing off his "brothers?" His interaction with Melisandre was interesting and I wish more had been done with that.
The only thing that saddens me about Jon's "death" is that I fear we won't have his POV chapters in the future. I really wanted to see his reaction to finding out about his parentage and maybe even seeing Arya one last time. Still, it's fairly obvious his role in this story is not yet done. There is a small chance he survived the stabbings of his brothers if someone like Tormund or even the giant intervened. Another option will be Melisandre giving him the kiss of life in which case he and Catelyn will finally have something to bond over! But more likely as the book heavily hinted (or hit you over the head), he'll live on through Ghost. It was the prologue where I knew he was doomed. It served to reinforce that a warg transfers part of himself to another when he or she dies (later reinforced again in a Bran chapter). That's all that really happened. So either Jon or Bran were in trouble, and Jon was more likely.
I'll miss the Jon POV if it is gone as it was one of my three favorites. And I dread chapters and chapters of Sam complaining about how craven he is but finding his courage and thinking, "Look Jon, I can be brave."
Dany: I've never really liked Dany. This book has made me dislike her even more. A good portion of the book revolves around her. I found none of her chapters interesting. The Mereneese characters are all terrible. The dragons were pretty awesome in one chapter in the book (but it's not one of Dany's!).
Dany's chapters are boring and feel like filler. We're just marking time until something happens to get her out of Mereen. In the meanwhile he's a bunch of crappy characters with weird names.
I was hoping we'd see her head to Westeros by the end of the book, that could possibly lead to something interesting in the future, but alas not. But hey! We get the long awaited return of a Dothraki horde to look to forward to!
Dany is the most invincible character in the series for the time being. There's no way she can die yet which added somewhat to the boredom. I would have been incredibly surprised if Martin had killed her. Surprised and pleased.
Tyrion: The book's greatest sin for me. Along with Jon and Arya, Tyrion's chapters have always been my favorite. In this book, his chapters were as bad as Dany's. I guess Tyrion is just best when he has interesting characters around him. The interesting characters are all either dead or have abandoned him. Martin's skill for creating interesting characters seems to have vanished. The new characters introduced in this book are mostly boring individuals (more on the later) and the returning characters Tyrion gets paired with are some of the series most boring (Jorah Mormont. TV Jorah is so much better than book Jorah). This is the first book in the series where I have not looked forward to Tyrion chapters and my dislike of his chapters started early, maybe because they're somewhat linked to Dany.
Like Dany, many of his chapters just seem like filler. When AFFC and ADWD was one book, Tyrion only had four chapters. It would probably have been better if it stayed that way.
Reek/Theon/various other chapter titles: Not bad. His chapters were interesting and gave us access to some twisted characters. Although maybe a bit too dark and twisted. "Reek!!! Eat out Jeyne Poole!"
Davos: What the fuck? His first chapter his pointless and only serves to impart that Jon's mother may have been some fish bitch. Unlikely as it seems that Jon must have some ties to Dorne per Edric Dayne's story in ASOS. Whether his mother was Ashara Dayne (unlikely now based on a Barristen chapter, but it appears Ned did knock her up), or he was born in the Tower of Joy. The fish story seems unlikely. Then you get his other two chapters which are really good. Then the third chapters ends on an incredibly awesome note, but that's it! And it's still pretty eary in the book. We don't get to see Davos's adventures on Skagos looking for Rickon. Instead we get a bunch of other pointless chapters with Dany and Tyrion.
Quintyn: Not a bad character. His companions are pretty thin character wise (but so are most of the series new characters). His last chapter gives us the book's best scene with dragons.
Griff(s): Figured out young Griff's identity almost immediately. Not sure what to make of him. Don't really have anything invested in him. Might be a good character, might not. Connington, don't care much for his character but I'm interested in what he knows of the past (which in this book is far more interesting than the present).
Barristen: The only really good character in Dany's chapters. Glad to get some insight into him. Wish he'd abandon her though and do something else, but that will probably never happen. He'll find her. I wish his chapters had dealt more with his memories of the past. As mentioned above, the past is far more interersting than the present in the book.
Asha/Victarion: This is getting long and no one is probably reading by this point. I never really liked the Greyjoy characters are chapters. Fuck Damphair! They weren't bad in this book, but based on Asha's ending there will be plenty more Greyjoy shenanigans in the next book. That makes me a sad panda.
Melisandre: Why she only get one chapter!?
Jaime: Him too. I understand why that chapter was in there, but it was odd. He's not dead, but probably not in a good place.
Cersie: Have we seen the start of Cersie's rehabilitation as a character?
Epilogue: The only truly shocking part of the book for me. I knew Kevan was going to die (it's tradition), but I was shocked at how and by who. Got poor ole Pycelle too, and it revealed a great deal about Varys.
Jon: Of the main three characters, his chapters were the best in the book, but grew repetitive as the book went on. How many chapters do we need to see of him giving land and position to wildlings and pissing off his "brothers?" His interaction with Melisandre was interesting and I wish more had been done with that.
The only thing that saddens me about Jon's "death" is that I fear we won't have his POV chapters in the future. I really wanted to see his reaction to finding out about his parentage and maybe even seeing Arya one last time. Still, it's fairly obvious his role in this story is not yet done. There is a small chance he survived the stabbings of his brothers if someone like Tormund or even the giant intervened. Another option will be Melisandre giving him the kiss of life in which case he and Catelyn will finally have something to bond over! But more likely as the book heavily hinted (or hit you over the head), he'll live on through Ghost. It was the prologue where I knew he was doomed. It served to reinforce that a warg transfers part of himself to another when he or she dies (later reinforced again in a Bran chapter). That's all that really happened. So either Jon or Bran were in trouble, and Jon was more likely.
I'll miss the Jon POV if it is gone as it was one of my three favorites. And I dread chapters and chapters of Sam complaining about how craven he is but finding his courage and thinking, "Look Jon, I can be brave."
Dany: I've never really liked Dany. This book has made me dislike her even more. A good portion of the book revolves around her. I found none of her chapters interesting. The Mereneese characters are all terrible. The dragons were pretty awesome in one chapter in the book (but it's not one of Dany's!).
Dany's chapters are boring and feel like filler. We're just marking time until something happens to get her out of Mereen. In the meanwhile he's a bunch of crappy characters with weird names.
I was hoping we'd see her head to Westeros by the end of the book, that could possibly lead to something interesting in the future, but alas not. But hey! We get the long awaited return of a Dothraki horde to look to forward to!
Dany is the most invincible character in the series for the time being. There's no way she can die yet which added somewhat to the boredom. I would have been incredibly surprised if Martin had killed her. Surprised and pleased.
Tyrion: The book's greatest sin for me. Along with Jon and Arya, Tyrion's chapters have always been my favorite. In this book, his chapters were as bad as Dany's. I guess Tyrion is just best when he has interesting characters around him. The interesting characters are all either dead or have abandoned him. Martin's skill for creating interesting characters seems to have vanished. The new characters introduced in this book are mostly boring individuals (more on the later) and the returning characters Tyrion gets paired with are some of the series most boring (Jorah Mormont. TV Jorah is so much better than book Jorah). This is the first book in the series where I have not looked forward to Tyrion chapters and my dislike of his chapters started early, maybe because they're somewhat linked to Dany.
Like Dany, many of his chapters just seem like filler. When AFFC and ADWD was one book, Tyrion only had four chapters. It would probably have been better if it stayed that way.
Reek/Theon/various other chapter titles: Not bad. His chapters were interesting and gave us access to some twisted characters. Although maybe a bit too dark and twisted. "Reek!!! Eat out Jeyne Poole!"
Davos: What the fuck? His first chapter his pointless and only serves to impart that Jon's mother may have been some fish bitch. Unlikely as it seems that Jon must have some ties to Dorne per Edric Dayne's story in ASOS. Whether his mother was Ashara Dayne (unlikely now based on a Barristen chapter, but it appears Ned did knock her up), or he was born in the Tower of Joy. The fish story seems unlikely. Then you get his other two chapters which are really good. Then the third chapters ends on an incredibly awesome note, but that's it! And it's still pretty eary in the book. We don't get to see Davos's adventures on Skagos looking for Rickon. Instead we get a bunch of other pointless chapters with Dany and Tyrion.
Quintyn: Not a bad character. His companions are pretty thin character wise (but so are most of the series new characters). His last chapter gives us the book's best scene with dragons.
Griff(s): Figured out young Griff's identity almost immediately. Not sure what to make of him. Don't really have anything invested in him. Might be a good character, might not. Connington, don't care much for his character but I'm interested in what he knows of the past (which in this book is far more interesting than the present).
Barristen: The only really good character in Dany's chapters. Glad to get some insight into him. Wish he'd abandon her though and do something else, but that will probably never happen. He'll find her. I wish his chapters had dealt more with his memories of the past. As mentioned above, the past is far more interersting than the present in the book.
Asha/Victarion: This is getting long and no one is probably reading by this point. I never really liked the Greyjoy characters are chapters. Fuck Damphair! They weren't bad in this book, but based on Asha's ending there will be plenty more Greyjoy shenanigans in the next book. That makes me a sad panda.
Melisandre: Why she only get one chapter!?
Jaime: Him too. I understand why that chapter was in there, but it was odd. He's not dead, but probably not in a good place.
Cersie: Have we seen the start of Cersie's rehabilitation as a character?
Epilogue: The only truly shocking part of the book for me. I knew Kevan was going to die (it's tradition), but I was shocked at how and by who. Got poor ole Pycelle too, and it revealed a great deal about Varys.
End spoilers. I'll just wrap it up and say that this book felt overlong and bloated. Not a lot really happened and a lot of the chapters were boring for me. Kind of like AFFC but at least AFFC had the grace to be comparatively short and had some more interesting characters. When they get to these books in the show they should just gut them and cut out all the fat. Both AFFC and ADWD could probably done in ~ 12 episodes.
The story has changed and grown so much from where we began. And it's expanded into areas I don't really care for. New supporting characters that have arisen to take the place of fallen characters are largely less interesting and forgettable. I'm growing cold on this series. That's not to say that I won't pick up the Winds of Winter day one, because I certainly will, but however long it takes to come out, it will be an easy wait for me.
edit: oh fuck! How could I forget Bran? His chapters were great! A first for the series!
Basileus777
Member
Martin's problem is that he has overused fake cliffhangers to the point where they lack any real pull.
ColonialRaptor
Member
I think part of what I'm liking so much about this book compared to AFFC is the shorter length of the chapters. Some chapters, while they were quite informative went on and on, and were lengthy. The chapters in this baby just plonk out quickly, boom boom boom boom.
I don't know if it's because I'm enjoying the characters I'm reading more or what but there is something certainly more "easy ready" or "easy flowing" about this book compared to feast.
So far I'm not so far in, about 20% and things are only just really getting started, not much happening yet.
Re Dany first couple or few chapters
Merchant Man Chapter 1
I don't know if it's because I'm enjoying the characters I'm reading more or what but there is something certainly more "easy ready" or "easy flowing" about this book compared to feast.
So far I'm not so far in, about 20% and things are only just really getting started, not much happening yet.
Re Dany first couple or few chapters
Her early chapters certainly seem
to make her seem lost. Personally I think the encounter with Quarth has significant meaning, and the meaning is that she is supposed to return to old valyria. I'm just guessing at this point so I don't know but that's what I think is supposed to happen.
She has no idea about all these people on their way to her, on their way to help her and she feels lost and all alone. Can't wait until they arrive and see what happens... Its also interesting because there are a few proposed husbands - three heads of the dragon. I wonder who will get there first.
to make her seem lost. Personally I think the encounter with Quarth has significant meaning, and the meaning is that she is supposed to return to old valyria. I'm just guessing at this point so I don't know but that's what I think is supposed to happen.
She has no idea about all these people on their way to her, on their way to help her and she feels lost and all alone. Can't wait until they arrive and see what happens... Its also interesting because there are a few proposed husbands - three heads of the dragon. I wonder who will get there first.
Merchant Man Chapter 1
When I found out that it was Quentyn Martell and on his way to propose marriage to Dany and offer her the support of Dorne oh was like OMFG how did I not realize this already. No wonder The Red Vipers brother (forgot their names) was trying so damn hard to stop all those rebellions from happening. The intentions of Quentyn were ne'er disclosed in AFFC were they?
ColonialRaptor said:
Doran explains everything to Arianne at the end of AFFC, iirc. The original plan was for Arianne to marry Viserys, but that fell by the wayside for obvious reasons. That was why Doran constantly proposed suitors for Arianne that he knew she would reject, while still putting up a front that Dorne is loyal to the current regime.
aronnov reborn
Banned
anyone have any links/scans of the maps in the book? would like to take a look at them while i read with my kindle. I have the map of
I dont have one and cant find one of
and the other one.
The Free Cities
I dont have one and cant find one of
Beyond the Wall
I'm reading the eighth Tyrion chapter now. This is probably crackpot, but anyone else think that
Tysha is Penny and Oppo's mother? That immediately jumped out at me when Penny said her father was a dwarf and her mother normal-sized. My hunch is Tyrion had gotten Tysha pregnant during their two-week marriage, and when she gave birth to a dwarf, she took another dwarf for her husband. Making either Penny or Oppo Tyrion's child, whichever is the older one, or possibly even both if they are twins.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
Jarmel said:
I think that's part of it too. The story has expanded so much. It seems there's stuff he wants to work in that affects future books, but it leaves much of the rest of the story marking time. In this books near 1000 page, not all the much happens.
I miss the story of the Starks vs. the Lannisters. I know that would be hard to extend over 7 books, it's just that the story that has risen to replace it is nowhere near as good and the new characters are a lot weaker than the ones we met in the first three books.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
Azrael said:
No they're not.
I wasn't expecting anything other than that they be interesting and entertaining. They're not. A few are better than others, but all in all his storyline is weak. He's been one of my favorites from the beginning and for the first time ever I sighed when I came to another Tyrion chapter. Something that only used to happen with Dany and Bran. Bran is awesome now though!
Dresden said:
<Tyrion Spoilers!>
Some place Tyrion will never find. He's too busy plodding around the rest of the world doing nothing interesting in particular.
That line got old to me too.
I did like "kill the boy" as a repeated inner thought though, but that line was used in a better storyline.
HarryHengst
Member
Tyrion was cool when he was bumming around Westeros with his bro4life Bronn. Or when he was making burns in King's Landing. *book spoilers*
.
Not when he is doing fuck nothing in the Free Cities or being a gladiator riding a pig
PhoenixDark
Banned
Hm, kind of surprised to see so many long-standing members of the various book threads being disappointed by Dance. I'm around 320 or so pages in and find it to be quite good. And I'm quite baffled by the Tyrion hate.
Dance Discussion up to Page 320 (Hardcover US)>
Dance Discussion up to Page 320 (Hardcover US)>
He's no longer in familiar territory, nor is he our familiar Tyrion. He's a broken man on the verge of collapse. His first couple chapters with Illyrio are fine - they aren't great, but you know it's just the opening set piece for a larger plot. By the time he joins Grif's crew things get very interesting. Thus far many of the POVs almost feel like they could be short stories, Tyrion's especially as his crew floats down an enormous river. The various hints, intrigue, humor, and tension on the boat is quite entertaining.
And I'm confused: when people claim nothing is interesting, are they including the chapter where the boat is attacked by stonemen and Tyrion falls into the river? Or the one where Tyrion meets Jorah? Or the scene where Tyrion puts things together and reveals Griff and his "son's" identity? Those are amazing moments.
I just finished the chapter where Connington watches in shock as "Aegon" decides to travel for Westeros and claim his throne. A plot hatched by Tyrion. I'm curious about Tyrion's intentions here. And I wonder what Prince Doran would think of this imposter. He clearly has no idea "Aegon" exists but still, and I'd imagine he would embrace his alleged nephew with open arms...but I wonder what this would do for Quentyn's mission. hm
And I'm confused: when people claim nothing is interesting, are they including the chapter where the boat is attacked by stonemen and Tyrion falls into the river? Or the one where Tyrion meets Jorah? Or the scene where Tyrion puts things together and reveals Griff and his "son's" identity? Those are amazing moments.
I just finished the chapter where Connington watches in shock as "Aegon" decides to travel for Westeros and claim his throne. A plot hatched by Tyrion. I'm curious about Tyrion's intentions here. And I wonder what Prince Doran would think of this imposter. He clearly has no idea "Aegon" exists but still, and I'd imagine he would embrace his alleged nephew with open arms...but I wonder what this would do for Quentyn's mission. hm
HarryHengst
Member
Emerson said:
Hope they present that Spartacus-style.
Harry Potter
Banned
Is there a site with chapter summaries yet?
Last Hearth
Member
That's because the first half of the book is significantly more interesting than the 2nd half of the book IMO.
The first half had much more of the North, had Bran and Davos whose chapters were great, the book bogs down whenever it goes to Essos (Bravoos being the exception).
The first half had much more of the North, had Bran and Davos whose chapters were great, the book bogs down whenever it goes to Essos (Bravoos being the exception).
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
Emerson said:
I think they almost could be. So much fat to be trimmed. Too many new characters that won't all make it in to the series.
I think the best approach is
Season 2 - ACOK 10 episodes
Season 3 - Part of ASOS (let's stay with this book as long as possible, it's the best) 10 episodes
Season 4 - The rest of ASOS (6 episodes maybe less)/ Part of AFFC/ADWD
Season 5 - The rest of AFFC/ADWD, maybe some of the Winds of Winter 10 episodes
and so on...
PhoenixDark
Banned
Jarmel said:
I'm curious, did you find the stuff I mentioned interesting/good?
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
Jarmel said:
This is correct. Tyrion starts out okay. Some interesting stuff does happen, but it goes downhill and never really recovers. A few decent parts here and there, but they're amidst a sea of shit.
Tyrion Spoilers
In some cases, literally a sea of shit! Well maybe not a sea, but at least a river.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off said:
I think they should finish season 3 on the Purple Wedding, which would cover about 75% of ASoS. The first 3 episodes or so of season 4 could wrap up ASoS. The rest of season 4 could cover the majority of Feast and a sizable chunk of Dance, perhaps ending with
the Three-Eyed Crow, Jorah capturing Tyrion, Aegon going west, Xaro's bloody gauntlet, and the fall of Moat Cailan to the Boltons and Deepwood Motte to Stannis.
Mr. Wonderful
Member
If the series ever did good enough, they could pull a Soprano's-type break between seasons.Jarmel said:
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
I think that they're really going to have a change a lot when it comes to adapting AFFC/ADWD, which I'm perfectly fine with. The series is also going to require a lot more sexposition to get the audience ready for all the new characters coming.
LegendofJoe
Member
I just finished Jon's 3rd chapter and I am loving the book so far. The political/militaristic push and pull in the North is awesome. It's one of the most compelling plot lines in the entire series imo, at least so far.
Also, Bran was my favorite Stark before Dance and my opinion has only hardened after reading his first two chapters. Bran Chapter 2:
Also, Bran was my favorite Stark before Dance and my opinion has only hardened after reading his first two chapters. Bran Chapter 2:
Seriously, how awesome was it to finally be introduced to a child, or should I say woman, of the forest?
LegendofJoe
Member
Emerson said:
I can't wait. Bran Spoiler:
I'm hoping to see the winged wolf take flight.