It's a documentary?
Do you run around War Museums screaming about how the World War 2 exhibitions glorify the Nazis?
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A&E to air weekly KKK documentary next year
- Thread starter MrSaturn99
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It's a documentary?
Do you run around War Museums screaming about how the World War 2 exhibitions glorify the Nazis?
If Hitler were still alive and on the upswing of a resurgent movement, maybe. This isn't a historical figure, even a horrible one like Hitler. This is some racist bastard who says himself he hopes the show makes him a household name.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Hitler documentaries don't seek to normalize and humanize him. They don't put fronts on the atrocities he committed. They don't do segments on his passions, why he feels the way he does, focus on the women in his life etc.
He's not deserved that nor are KKK members, we don't need to "understand" them. We understand them well enough. We don't need to empathise with their belief that they are superior and that "the negro is inferior and should be exterminated".
I would assume not much but...
Any amount is too much. Buying them luch on a rainy day is too much.
It's important to say that those numbers are actually up from 2014 when there were just 72 active groups. So, they more than doubled in the space of one year and are on an upward trend. I'm interested to see if they drop off again in 2016/2017.
Actually a Hitler documentary that only focuses on the atrocities and paint the guy as a monster is next to useless.
What is the point of a documentary that only delve into informations we have and doesn't shine a new light on some unknown part we may have missed.
I'm saying that knowing that there's a human behind the atrocities is absolutely something that should be shown....without excusing the atrocities that is.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Yea sorry but no. I don't need to nor do I care to learn about his childhood, or that he was a great painter, or that he loved his dog or any of that shit.
Doubly so for KKK members. You want to humanize them? Focus on why they're deathly afraid of black people but frame it accurately, that it's a bunch of self inflicted fear they themselves created that started in the 1600s and they (and conservatives) have been perpetuating ever since. I don't care that they have kids or that they love sports, I don't care they love BBQs. Do not try to envoke empathy for the KKK to minorities, if anything they should be showing documentaries to these people (and really most people) humanizing minorities that are demonized in news media 24/7. If your documentary has time to humanize the KKK...that's time that can be spent focusing on the people they hate.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Let me revise my analogy then. It's like a documentary on Scientology or the Westboro Baptist Church or ISIS or the people involved in Jesus Camp. All current movements. All worthy of documentaries.
I can understand your guys' concerns about giving a "platform" to these people. I get that. But I really don't think a documentary which is going to be wagging their finger at them is a platform. If anything it will serve as negative propaganda against them and inoculation against any possible pull toward the KKK.
Maybe you don't want to "understand" them. And I totally get that. But I do. I love documentaries about freak cults and weird social movements and learning why people fall into them. And I would also argue that there is social value in understanding the odd ideas that bubble under the surface of society, so we can educate one another and protect against them. Movies like Going Clear have devastated Scientology's pull in the public sphere, so why not this?
EstoyBlackWaldo
Member
Good luck with that... I said that these fucks would get so bold as to. They believe they can now run for political offices being openly racist because true to speak theres obviously no consequences for being a KKK/Aryan general racist in a national and political spotlight. If people don't think 2016 broke this country moving forward I don't know what. If his family doesn't agree and doesn't want to be taught the KKK way, along with the other stories they'll cover of not wanting to take up being a racist wizard. Then why agree to do this show? Why not just fucking leave. Why even entertain the thought?
I'm not saying these documentaries should make you feel empathy toward them.
That's the last thing I want to see.
What I want to see is that they're not monsters that special circumstances pushed them to do horrible things.
They're not monsters, they're humans and what they did is even worse BECAUSE of that.
They're not cartoon characters that you can easily dismiss from your mind when you don't watch the show. They're horrible PoS that needs to be understood to be properly discarded.
Wafflecakes
Member
Then your are not REALLY interested in learning or history.
Netherscourge
Banned
Are they going to show them casually using the N word and saluting Hitler pictures? Maybe mock lynchings?
I can't believe what is happening in the country right now.
Everything is wrong.
I think I might block A&E just to protest this shit. I don't feel comfortable supporting them doing this.
If they make it look warm and fuzzy, I might just cut the cord for good.
I can't believe what is happening in the country right now.
Everything is wrong.
I think I might block A&E just to protest this shit. I don't feel comfortable supporting them doing this.
If they make it look warm and fuzzy, I might just cut the cord for good.
Angelus Errare
Banned
There is no nuanced history to be learned with the KKK. I'd rather we focus on the history of the hundreds of thousands of black people killed, communities burned down due to white instigated racial riots. There have been over 50 racial riots like that in this country's history, cover those.
Cover how their completely unsubstantiated fears led to the death and inhumane treatment of people who just want to be left alone. I don't need not do I care to learn about the founding father of the KKK.
When are we not shown the romanticized American history? It's taught in schools and shown on TV constantly.
And no I'm not trying to learn aboutt the KKK tbh, nothing left to learn.
More_Badass
Member
Are people reading the OT? The article says the episodes focus on people who have left or are trying to get their children out
This isn't like United Shades of America, where they sent W. Kamau Bell to speak with members of the KKK. This isn't journalism, it's a crappy A&E reality show
I understand they're focusing on the family members who want to distance themselves from the Klan, but I have a hard time imagining this show having any educational value
Jeffolation
Banned
Pretty much. Nowadays A&E is at best crass and tactless and this show is going to be fucking tasteless.
HBO got Bill Maher, motherfucka literally is saying he dont know if he about to be taken out by the FBI because of Trump, but hey, he had a good run. Hope he doesnt lose his edge. He needs to spit hot fire more than ever.
Ill sub to HBO for forever as long as they stand up for liberal values.
Wafflecakes
Member
Oh please. No one is forcing you to watch.
Stop pretending that learning about the KKK retroactively wipes out anything a person has learned about the horrible things they have done.
Choosing to only learn about one perspective on history is willful ignorance, pure and simple.
ReBurn
Gold Member
Didn't you know that things always get better when you don't talk about them? It doesn't matter to some people that there are others out there aligned with them who are actively pushing back against centuries of racist teachings. It's more important to act morally outraged at the mere mention of controversial subject matter so that people can see how pure they are.
Biff
Member
It truly is bizarre.
All it does is get one's opinion ignored while drawing more attention to the subject matter at hand. It achieves the exact opposite of the intent of the outraged person.
I like the current one on Scientology from Leah Remini on A&E. It shows how fucked up they really are and hopefully helps steer people away from them. It would be nice if this does the same.
OverBlood 3
Banned
There was a British documentary on the KKK not too long ago and they came off as absolutely incompetent and clearly the sole reason they were in the KKK was because it was like an activity group or something (they had no life) and they liked dressing up as dumb ghosts and giving each other stupid grand titles to feel important. Complete dimwits.
From experience working on some for other networks? None for the subjects/sources.
There's a 8-minute clip of the documentary on YouTube, from A&E.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3eRD39VYC8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3eRD39VYC8
Either that or people think that anything bad should just be wiped from history and never examined or looked at or talked about? I dunno
SenjutsuSage
Banned
This shit is mainstream again, wow. They're no longer seen as outcasts that should be mocked and shunned for their beliefs. They are now being honored, even glorified, with a major platform - no matter what A&E says - from which to broadcast their views.
I read that entire thing, and I'm calling it now, this will essentially be used as a tool to mainstream the idea of the movement even still existing, by portraying the KKK in a more sympathetic light, as if to say, "hey look, they may not be all that bad, there are reasons they feel this way, but, here, look at these scripted moments where they see the error of their ways and suddenly realize how wrong they were." It is a form of programming designed to make it appear as if they are against the ideas behind the existence of a movement such as the KKK, or that they now understand why they were wrong, but I believe it secretly has the opposite goal in mind: to make people of this country more accepting of the KKK and their beliefs by creating and promoting sympathetic figures.
I read that entire thing, and I'm calling it now, this will essentially be used as a tool to mainstream the idea of the movement even still existing, by portraying the KKK in a more sympathetic light, as if to say, "hey look, they may not be all that bad, there are reasons they feel this way, but, here, look at these scripted moments where they see the error of their ways and suddenly realize how wrong they were." It is a form of programming designed to make it appear as if they are against the ideas behind the existence of a movement such as the KKK, or that they now understand why they were wrong, but I believe it secretly has the opposite goal in mind: to make people of this country more accepting of the KKK and their beliefs by creating and promoting sympathetic figures.
I think if you watch the clip, or read the OP, you may change your mind.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Weekly is great because people won't be able to pretend that the country isn't full of people who, if not active Klan members, will fit right in.
I did and what I got from it is that they are doing a documentary about them without presenting their repugnant views which is not actually a good idea. I don't see "antiracist activism" jiving with being imbedded in the racist's family life tbh whether they are focusing on the kids that want out or not.
Just cause you focus on the ones who are not as racist doesn't mean you aren't shining a light on the racists. Maybe it'll be amazing television but I don't really see how it's a good idea.
Today's Klan members were alive in the 1600s? They vampires?
Dark Ninja
Member
Will watch their Scientology one they are giving is pretty interesting.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
I still think this will create sympathy for the KKK without showcasing in full what it is that makes them such a terrible group of people. A documentary that showcases the "good" that the KKK is capable of while more or less hiding the terrible history. This is a huge mistake waiting to happen.
How do you feel about Louis Theroux documentaries?
KernelPanic
Member
I did read the OP.
Despite the best intentions of this documentary I think giving these people any publicity is bad these days.
We live in a post truth world where facts don't matter.
These groups aren't in power because we ignored them.
They are not focusing on the ones who are not racist. They are presenting the Klan as a bad thing to be escaped from. Hoarders doesn't exist to turn people into Hoarders.
Ignoring shit doesn't make it go away. It's the same argument that assholes make when they say 'If people would stop bitching about racism it'd go away!'
KernelPanic
Member
I'm not saying it will make it go away. I think it's more likely that the KKK gets more sympathy from this. Same with all the puff pieces on Richard Spencer.
So you think a documentary on Trump on all the nasty things he's said and his ties to Russia would change anything, even before the election?
Exactly. It's like people are willfully choosing to ignore this or want to believe it's going to backfire because such belief allows them to be cynical and angered by the attempt and then complain about it. It's bizarre.
I don't understand the leap of logic that would make this into a fluff piece? It's an eight part documentary on escaping the horrors of the Klan.
And a hard hitting documentary about Trump might have changed things yeah. I don't know, I'm not a prophet.
Nydius
Member
I see what you did there (and I'm afraid I might be the only one).
Absolutely perfect reference.
I still have the first edition uncensored cassette of that album.
Frozenprince
Banned
Use this show to see how these people infiltrated our doctor at large.
Look for lawyers. Doctors. Public servants.
That's the positive this can serve, pointing out that Jeb who owns the grocery store posts his black employees $1.5 lesd and hour.
Look for lawyers. Doctors. Public servants.
That's the positive this can serve, pointing out that Jeb who owns the grocery store posts his black employees $1.5 lesd and hour.
Frozenprince
Banned
Well, technically, the article says that two out of the 8 episodes delves into a few of the families that want to get out of the KKK including Mr. Howard's ex-wife and daughter. The series itself "follows Mr. Howard, The Imperial Wizard of the North Mississippi Knights." While the documentary may not be seeking to "normalize" the KKK, giving them a platform like this, showing that he's just a human being like "anybody else" while prescribing to a belief system that actively seeks out to harm, kill, oppress, and destroy minorities of any kind (in particular blacks), is very much normalizing the KKK.
I'm sorry, but there is no "softer side" to the KKK. There is no humanity to the KKK. This country bends over backwards to highlight groups like this, and people like Donald Trump who embolden and reinforce their hateful rhetoric. Whipping them up into a frenzy of bigory, sexism, racism, and superiority over the non-white, non-christian, non-heterosexual "other."
Meanwhile, marginalized and progressive groups have to beg for airtime and coverage of the atrocities committed against them by people like Steven Howard. Where some folks see "just a documentary" about the KKK, I see another chance for a hateful organization to get their messaging out there. The fact that I now know this asshole's name is irritating. I'd rather see A&E put energy into highlighting a day in the life of your average minority family and the very real struggle they go through day in and day out as a marginalized group. I'd rather see a documentary about the LGBTQ movement, and concerted efforts to "normalize" them, instead of just one more venue for the hatemongers to beat off to their twisted and backwards belief system.
Maybe it's because I'm a Black-Samoan man living in America, where I deal with the effects of institutionalized racism every fucking day, that I don't need to be reminded of ignorant fucks like Steven Howard. For me, and the other marginalized groups he despises (this includes Muslims, Mexicans and LGBT people of course), we don't need to put a "face to the hate." We know all too well what it looks like. It looks like the dude that bags my groceries. It looks like the interviewer I have to prove that I'm "one of the good ones" to to get a job. It looks like the banker that won't approve my student loan. It looks like my old school teacher at the Lutheran school I went to who used to knock over my desk and yell at me because he thought I was gay. It looks like the guy that called me a nigger for making a left hand turn driving down the street in west LA.
I guess it's a sore spot for me, and I'd rather see effort put into normalizing and humanzing marginalized groups. Empathy and compassion are sorely lacking in this country, and the vast majority of that problem is with the current power structure, which is heavily biased in favor of white America.
Don't get me wrong, I very much feel for the innocent people trapped in a community where racism and bigotry are the name of the game. I feel for his daughters, and for the young teens that feel pressured into going with the flow. But that's where my empathy stops. I don't have a lick of it for people like Steven Howard or Donald Trump. Grown ass fucking men that should know better. Grown ass fucking men that actively choose to remain hateful and ignorant.
I can speak from experience, that it is a choice. Before I moved to Los Angeles when I was 19, I was full of bigotry and homophobia. I didn't like or trust people from the Middle East (Persian, Indian, Iraqi, Pakistani, etc, etc, I didn't care. If you were a brown person, I thought you were dirty and an untrustworthy terrorist). If you were gay or lesbian, I didn't want anything to do with you. I thought it was gross. I was born and raised a Christian, and living in Milwaukee, WI, it was a heavily segregated "Christian," and homophobic upbringing. And the horrible thing is that I was proud of my ignorance and hate. I was a racist shithead, and it's okay to call me that, because it was the truth. Once I got out into the world, experienced different cultures, and just overall grew the fuck up, I stopped being that racist, homophobic, Islamophobic shithead. I was 21 when I realized it. What is Steven Howard's excuse? It wasn't easy. I had to shed a lot of pre-conceived notions about a lot of things and ideas that had been ingrained in me since birth. For 19 years I lived with that hate. It was a mix of realizing my hypocrisy and ignorance. Recognizing that as a black person, and therefore a fellow marginalized minority, that the plights of the LGBTQ and Muslim and Mexican communities weren't very different from my own. Realizing that ultimately, we're all human beings, and we need to look out for each other, stranger or friend, doesn't matter.
I'll fight with every fiber of my being for the rights of everyone, white, black, Asian, Mexican, LGBTQ, etc, etc. At the end of the day, empathy is what will save us, not hatred. Steven Howard doesn't deserve the air time A&E are giving him. The LGBTQ couple fighting for their right to just get married is worthy of more energy and an 8 part documentary.
Thank you, this sums up every feeling that I was either too tired to &or couldn't fully express in this thread.
10/10 post.
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