A polite discourse amongst friends on the importance of MP-elements in No Man's Sky

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Shambalakan said:
I don't have any problem with NMS being a singleplayer game, but it's really strange that 4 players have located each other in 2 locations between 18 quintillion planets this soon. I know there is a chance for this, but I thought the chance is much much less than this.
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Yeah, I'm gonna repeat my previous post..

How sure are we that the universe is as big as they say it is? Because of a press release? Because of a dev interview? I think we know already how trustworthy those two sources are.

Serious question, how many really think the universe in NMS is really as big as they say it is? Four players have met up with each other in the first day of release?? 18 quintillion planets? Something isn't jiving here...
 
Netherscourge said:
Thank you. This only proves my point:

Never did he say we could GROUP UP and explore/fight/trade/survive the galaxy together.

As I've posted repeatedly: We ARE playing together, with our friends, online, in separate instances within the same galaxy-server. Sean has never lied about that fact. And that falls under the "Online" stickers on the boxes.

All he said was we could SEE each other at some point. Nothing beyond that.
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If mental gymnastics was a category at the Olympics you'd be in Rio right now winning Gold my friend
 
Shari said:
Of course not, because hyping unexisting features in an upcoming game does not generate preorders.

Then some folks wonder how companies get away with this. Well, this is how.
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Things don't make the release, some things don't work, breaking game development news 1994.


I'm off to play it some more.
 
drangleic tourism said:
The real shame here will be if this thread overtakes the OT in page count.
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Maybe this deception and lies are more interesting than the game itself. Meta-game.

8pTSVjV.gif


Genius.

deadduck said:
Things don't make the release, some things don't work, breaking game development news 1994.
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Sure because an online layer not making it to release is something you probably know the week before. LOL.
 
drangleic tourism said:
The real shame here will be if this thread overtakes the OT in page count.
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Yeah, I see why people want clarification, but I don't get why people care. Even if you could see other people, it doesn't change the game at all. It's still primarily a single player experience. I always figured "seeing other people" would be like how the last Fable game did it and you just see a floating orb or something.
 
Tagyhag said:
Lol I'm asking you. I can't even remember the last dev who had a shitstorm and then the controversy died out with them not having to do anything and then being vindicated in the end.
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It has literally been less than a day still, lol. So yes, I seen many, many devs not respond in the (HEAR ME NOW) fashion. Patience is a lost art form.

Insta-gratification culture.

McGreevious said:
Is anyone open to the idea that it's still planned but since it's launch day the servers are being hit pretty hard?
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Yes, we have said this... as well as the streamers are never online at the same time for any substantial test, and keep 'going offline', as was I and everyone else with this game since yesterday. But that evidence is not 'proof' that we should be more open to such evidence... instead, LIAR is more apt of a response.

I still think it is not (same place same time) type of thing like an MMO due to the LOST and Journey comments.
 
KoopaTheCasual said:
Yea, I think there has GOT to be more to this than, "Lol, I thought I would get away with it." Maybe they wanted to patch it immediately, maybe the server issues are contributing to it, maybe its tied to a really cool progression easter egg that Sean doesn't wanna spoil.

I mean yea, that's exactly what it is. It's just weird that he wouldn't see this coming. Never leave a NEAR statistical impossibility up to the internet. They will make it happen. I hope he can clear the air, because the netizens are gonna eat HG alive at this rate.
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I hope he says something soon too. Features get cut, sometimes really late in development. Maybe seeing other players should be working and they are trying figure out what's wrong. I never thought of No Man's Sky as a shared world game like Destiny or like Elite but I haven't followed the game much as it's not on Xbox.
 
FYI, 18 quintillion planets is based on the largest number that can occur on 64-bit systems. So it's really "18 quintillion possible planets" because the game couldn't keep track of any more than that.
 
Deadly Cyclone said:
Yeah, I see why people want clarification, but I don't get why people care. Even if you could see other people, it doesn't change the game at all. It's still primarily a single player experience. I always figured "seeing other people" would be like how the last Fable game did it and you just see a floating orb or something.
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"I personally ignored selling points" is not an answer to deceptive marketing.
 
Forsaken82 said:
You are trying to argue that because they never really acknowledged it that it's shitty they are just now calling it out? Blame your peers for planting this incorrect seed in your head, not the developer.

In no way is this Hello Games fault.
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Except that Sean Murray has stated on multiple occasions that you'd be able to run into other players, and even went as far as saying you could grief them?

I don't have the game and due to some financial stuff probably won't anytime soon, so I can't talk from experience on the subject, but I'm more interested in how vague Hello Games and Sean are being in response to this.
 
deadduck said:
Considering a lie is an intentional false statement, you have no way of knowing the intention.
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When the dev who has spent years making the game says there is multiplayer and the game launches without multiplayer then it's an outright lie.

I just don't understand why folks are trying to defend the dev here. He lied.
 
Sean Murray just shot himself in the foot.

I don't know how much the rest of you know about multiplayer culture (I'm an expert), but honor and shame are huge parts of it. It's not like it is in Single Player games where you can become successful by playing alone. If you lie about being able to meet other players, you bring shame to yourself, and the only way to get rid of that shame is repentance.

What this means is the public, after hearing about this, is not going to want to purchase No Mans Sky for either system, nor will they purchase any of Sean Murray's games. This is HUGE. You can laugh all you want, but Hello Games has alienated an entire market with this move.

Sean Murray, publicly apologize and add Multiplayer or you can kiss your business goodbye.
 
IAmAnAgnostic said:
True. One of them isn't online now. But as he showed that he also said, "But we tried when we were both online many, many times."

Why did you leave that out?
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I literally just saw the not connected red circle in the menus. Chill out. I don't care if the game allows you to see others or not. At this time, Sean says you can. I believe him over these dudes.

Don't really care what they say. They could say a lot of things. They got proof they were both connected at any given time. Probably not
 
jrh2 said:
FYI, 18 quintillion planets is based on the largest number that can occur on 64-bit systems. So it's really "18 quintillion possible planets" because the game couldn't keep track of any more than that.
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Any proof that he game doesn't have that many? Because I'm hearing arguments that the galaxy doesn't have that many but I thought there were more than 1 galaxy?
 
How could a server even handle instancing for this game? Let's say you're at Planet X and there are a million other players online. How would they know if any other player is also on Planet X? They can't have servers designated to an area because the universe is too large. So do they query each person online to see if they have recently been there? Like, maybe when you go to a planet, a server updates your last location and checks who else has that planet as their last location and instances you two if they are still online?
 
Hopefully we can have more people trying this so we get more data. It's still not clear to me both parties are connected to the main servers, or same local servers (if that's what's needed), to even make connecting with each other possible.

Playing the game myself, I'm wondering what purpose the lights/lanterns serve. You can turn them on and off but has anyone noticed any persistence when you leave the planet and return? In a strange way, could you communicate with another player that way? Like via morse code?
 
Pop said:
I literally just saw the not connected red circle in the menus. Chill out. I don't care if the game allows you to see others or not. At this time, Sean says you can. I believe him over these dudes.

Don't really care what they say. They could say a lot of things. They got proof they were both connected at any given time. Probably not
Click to expand...

they are relogging to fix it god dammit.

and they were in the same spot two times already with BOTH connected

edit BOTH OF THEM NOW ONLINE
 
Deadly Cyclone said:
Yeah, I see why people want clarification, but I don't get why people care. Even if you could see other people, it doesn't change the game at all. It's still primarily a single player experience. I always figured "seeing other people" would be like how the last Fable game did it and you just see a floating orb or something.
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I guess some people thought they could roam around the universe with a friend.

Two Words said:
How could a server even handle instancing for this game? Let's say you're at Planet X and there are a million other players online. How would they know if any other player is also on Planet X? They can't have servers designated to an area because the universe is too large. So do they query each person online to see if they have recently been there? Like, maybe when you go to a planet, a server updates your last location and checks who else has that planet as their last location and instances you two if they are still online?
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It can be done. EVE does it for a huge universe. It creates instances where players are located (even in empty space, not just planets). It slows down the tick rate when the load is high.
Also, since this game isn't a PvP heavy game, a lot of the traffic can go directly between the players without going to the server at all.
 
AcademicSaucer said:
yeah

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AE0nuW-mQ8A
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cool video compilation. Already watch it? What are you trying to prove? Lets review this vignettes.

With Geoff Keighley and Joel McHale:

Geoff: but such a bold idea when you guys are literally building your own like massively multiplayer world that's procedurally generated...

sean: "right" smirk.

Geof:.. and is there anything with this game doesn't have?

Sean: HAHAHAHAHAHA

With Stephen Colbert

Stephen: have we ever get to see ourselves?

Sean: no you don't see yourself so the only way for you to know what you look like its that somebody else to see you.

Stephen: you can you run into other people other players on the game?

Sean: yes... but in the chances of that areincredibly rare just get the size of what we are building.

Stephen: WOW

With Antoni Carboni

Antoni: how much interaction is there with other people playing NMS?

Sean: you could encounter other players... the reality is the likelihood of that is
tiny... basically.

With Jeff Cork

Jeff: will you be able to play with your friends?

Sean: Yeah.

Jeff: can you grief other players?

Sean: hahaha a little bit.

which parts he confirm full hands multiplayer FPS shooter or Dog Fights?
 
Deadly Cyclone said:
Yeah, I see why people want clarification, but I don't get why people care. Even if you could see other people, it doesn't change the game at all. It's still primarily a single player experience. I always figured "seeing other people" would be like how the last Fable game did it and you just see a floating orb or something.
Click to expand...

I hope these reactions don't sour Sean from future projects. I'm not buying the game any time soon(I think?) but the antagonism here is off the charts.
 
Shambalakan said:
I don't have any problem with NMS being a singleplayer game, but it's really strange that 4 players have located each other in 2 locations between 18 quintillion planets this soon. I know there is a chance for this, but I thought the chance is much much less than this.
Click to expand...

Come on, they were just VERY VERY VERY lucky! ;)
 
Deadly Cyclone said:
Yeah, I see why people want clarification, but I don't get why people care. Even if you could see other people, it doesn't change the game at all. It's still primarily a single player experience. I always figured "seeing other people" would be like how the last Fable game did it and you just see a floating orb or something.
Click to expand...

"Why do people care about a thing that I don't care about?"

Obviously some people (many even, apparently) were excited about the prospect of running into other people, maybe even their friends, while exploring the galaxy. I personally was intrigued when Journey was referenced, as that was one of my favorite multiplayer experiences despite there being little to no actual interaction between players.
 
Gator Bait said:
Sean Murray just shot himself in the foot.

I don't know how much the rest of you know about multiplayer culture (I'm an expert), but honor and shame are huge parts of it. It's not like it is in Single Player games where you can become successful by playing alone. If you lie about being able to meet other players, you bring shame to yourself, and the only way to get rid of that shame is repentance.

What this means is the public, after hearing about this, is not going to want to purchase No Mans Sky for either system, nor will they purchase any of Sean Murray's games. This is HUGE. You can laugh all you want, but Hello Games has alienated an entire market with this move.

Sean Murray, publicly apologize and add Multiplayer or you can kiss your business goodbye.
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Honor and Shame? WTF?
 
Pop said:
I literally just saw the not connected red circle in the menus. Chill out. I don't care if the game allows you to see others or not. At this time, Sean says you can. I believe him over these dudes.

Don't really care what they say. They could say a lot of things. They got proof they were both connected at any given time. Probably not
Click to expand...

Now they are both online. (again) They don't see each other. (again)

Also, you can pause the game and the games can display different times and of course content in the game. Thus it seems 100% impossible for multiplayer to occur.
 
Gator Bait said:
Sean Murray just shot himself in the foot.

I don't know how much the rest of you know about multiplayer culture (I'm an expert), but honor and shame are huge parts of it. It's not like it is in Single Player games where you can become successful by playing alone. If you lie about being able to meet other players, you bring shame to yourself, and the only way to get rid of that shame is repentance.

What this means is the public, after hearing about this, is not going to want to purchase No Mans Sky for either system, nor will they purchase any of Sean Murray's games. This is HUGE. You can laugh all you want, but Hello Games has alienated an entire market with this move.

Sean Murray, publicly apologize and add Multiplayer or you can kiss your business goodbye.
Click to expand...

I honestly think most people who aren't buying it weren't going to buy it anyway.

While multiplayer was definitely mentioned to some degree, it has NEVER been promoted as core to this game. More a passing possibility that you might come across someone else.

The core of this game was solo exploration and survival.

My biggest issue with the game is the supposedly massive diverse universe and minimal chances of seeing the same thing is not anywhere near the level it was promoted to be, with very similar structures, and species widely apparent. If you're seeing the same things over and over it drastically reduces the reason of wanting to explore, toss in the janky mechanics and they are bigger issues than whether you can cross paths with a random online.

The good news is that things can be changed. I predict this game will be very different in 6 months time.
 
Other games out there allowed you to pause the game but when you encountered another player pausing wouldn't freeze time. However, is it possible that due to pausing putting our games out of sync and that planets rotate (and orbit?) that two players can be on the same X,Y,Z on the planet but not the same X,Y,Z in the universe?
 
Forsaken82 said:
You are trying to argue that because they never really acknowledged it that it's shitty they are just now calling it out? Blame your peers for planting this incorrect seed in your head, not the developer.

In no way is this Hello Games fault.
Click to expand...

This is as close to objectively wrong as someone can be in an otherwise reasonable conversation.

People are recognizing that the developer, at several points in the game's promotion, described a traditional sort of multi-player interaction that doesn't appear to be in the game. Saying you can play with friends, or that other players will be able to tell you what you look like, or any of that sort of anecdote is where that incorrect seed came from.
 
jrh2 said:
The one guy's game is still saying "You have been disconnected from online services."

And if they're in different regions that's another issue.
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Well, yea those would be a pretty big issues to ignore..

--Possibly not being connected to the NMS servers is a big issue that would prevent seeing each other

--Possibly being on a different server/seed/region altogether is another issue that would prevent people from seeing each other

This doesn't really prove anything.

We need two people in the same region and actively connected to the NMS servers to get together and test this.
 
Aren't all players at a different time though? Its weird to consider, but with warping, and how many hours played vs. How many hours the other people played. What's the chance you are in the same place at the same actual time.


But I don't really think MP exists at all in this.
 
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