It was already established that wargs can't stand each other. Even Jon has an instinctual dislike of the wildling warg. So I find it understandable that he would dismiss Ghost's reaction as being caused by the other warg, rather than some sort of danger warning.
A Song of Ice and Fire -- **Unmarked Spoilers For All Books including ADWD**
- Thread starter Pollux
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It was already established that wargs can't stand each other. Even Jon has an instinctual dislike of the wildling warg. So I find it understandable that he would dismiss Ghost's reaction as being caused by the other warg, rather than some sort of danger warning.
I agree in that instance it made sense for Jon to ignore Ghost, but yeah Robb had no excuse whatsoever. Fucking Freys.
ItAintEasyBeinCheesy
it's 4th of July in my asshole
Going through Dance, nearly at the end (chap 56) it's better than I remember, but I have been going back to back with the audiobooks.
Makes the 2 preview chapters from Winds so much better as well.
Makes the 2 preview chapters from Winds so much better as well.
Lactose_Intolerant
Member
Who are you talking about, the kids at the end with Varys? Those are his little birds, his spy network. They hide in the walls.
arglebargle
Member
no its not. we learned what he meant when he said his little birds tell him things. he has children hiding in the walls.
Lactose_Intolerant
Member
Didn't Varys already mention in like the 1st book he needed more children who knew how to write from Illyrio. Plus he knew about all the secret passages in the castle. We knew what his little birds were a long time ago.
I'm pretty sure the reason he calls them little birds too is because Bloodraven used to use birds as spies when he was in king's landing. Bloodraven being the 3 eyed crow.
Jamesfrom818
Banned
Tyrion figured it out when he was crawling through the passageways too.
ItAintEasyBeinCheesy
it's 4th of July in my asshole
I thought this would have been bumped cause GRRM would be super happy with the Giants and will start writing like a man possessed.
I can dream
Also finished Dance, fuckin Jon Snow.
I can dream
Also finished Dance, fuckin Jon Snow.
arglebargle
Member
yeah, this just made it a bit more explicit. also, i definitely dont know all the details and subtleties of this series as well as a lot of people (that is, i am probably a more casual reader and thus more representative of the average reader) and i thought it firmed up some suspicions.
Pollux
Member
Amen.
elrechazado
Banned
Daario is Tom Brady. He's about to die horribly.
PhoenixDark
Banned
While I was reading the end of ADWD I kept thinking "haha, Daario is going to be flung into the city from a trebuchet." Only his gold teeth will remain
Shit's going to hit the fan when Dany returns to Mereen. Of course, who knows how long that will take now that we have more Dothraki drama to deal with. I hope she just kills the khal, everyone bows to her, and she leads them right to Mereen - no stops, no drama, just go do it and get it over with god dammit
Shit's going to hit the fan when Dany returns to Mereen. Of course, who knows how long that will take now that we have more Dothraki drama to deal with. I hope she just kills the khal, everyone bows to her, and she leads them right to Mereen - no stops, no drama, just go do it and get it over with god dammit
Gamer @ Heart
Member
Aside from having to fill time he originally planned to time jump, i think that was the point of Dany in this book. To Fall again and realize what she is (a fucking dragon), not who she is/suppose to be (a queen). I believe she will truly start to wreck some shit in the next book after she reunites all three of the dragons of course.
Anyway, does anyone have a link to crazy awesome theories?
PhoenixDark
Banned
Yup, agreed. And what does that say about her potential as Queen of Westeros? There are some who believe she's going to slowly become her father, in terms of going mad. I see her becoming Robert. What was Robert to do after there were no more thrones to win? Likewise, what will Dany be when there are no more slaves to free, or a throne to reclaim
Gamer @ Heart
Member
I'm with you. If she does manage to live through all this after defeating whatever force is behind the wights, i dont see her ruling or living in Westeros at all. Maybe flying away to live in the wilds of who knows where west of slavers bay.
I think GRRM realized that as well. Which is why he's fleshing out her story and having her try to rule on her own before she goes to Westeros, so that she'll be "ready." Remains to be seen what will come of it though.
PhoenixDark
Banned
If she ever gets to Westeros and contests for the throne, it would certainly be interesting to see her clash with the general idea of lordship and peasantry. It's hard to see people like Littlefinger or the King's Council being particularly happy about the changes she would most likely want to make. Kind of makes me wonder if "Aegon" could potentially win the allegiance of this old Westeros aristocracy over the more foreign (and dangerous) dragon queen. And would he be willing to go against his (alleged) aunt; I could see the Martells being firmly against Dany given what happened to Quentyn for instance.
Potential storylines like that kind of make me annoyed there's a giant Other albatross hanging over the story. The politics and scheming will eventually become irrelevant to that universal threat.
PhoenixDark
Banned
double post but
Very interesting theory
http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/p844r/adwd_spoilers_and_speculation_septon_meribald/
Very interesting theory
http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/p844r/adwd_spoilers_and_speculation_septon_meribald/
Saint Gregory
Member
It's been a while since I finished ADWD but didn't we get some kind of off-hand confirmation that Varys did buy a baby from some peasant which ended up being swapped for Aegon?
At the same time I thought it was really weird that the Lannisters could be fooled by a substitute baby when Aegon should have had some pretty strong Targaryen/Martell features at a few months old. I think they did say that no one wanted to look at the baby after Gregor was done with it though, I'm so confused :/
i actually really like that theory, even since Aegon was introduced to the story he felt a bit underwhelming, maybe Georges way of setting this up?
Would be very nice foreshadowing if true. I wonder how much he actually foreshadowed once all the books are released. Would be very awesome if the end of the series was laid out in Bran I GoT somehow.
PhoenixDark
Banned
The thought Aegon was introduced pretty well, but his quick success struck me as odd. He's certainly surrounded by very capable people, including Connington, but still his Robb-esque bravado makes me wary. And of course Varys' "he's the best king ever!" boast at the end of ADWD made me think "yea, this guy is going to get destroyed.."
TWOW spoiler:
If he's truly a Blackfyre and Varys is as well, how does that mesh with Varys initial plan for Viserys? Arya heard him and Illyrio plotting to put Viserys on the throne remember. Although I always found it weird that Viserys and Dany were thrown into such a dangerous situation with little to no protection; a whole host of things could have gone horribly wrong for them - and did in Viserys' case.
TWOW spoiler:
And yet he managed to take Storm's End in a very short period of time, no small feat. Most likely Connington came up with some clever ruse, but it's still an impressive victory.
If he's truly a Blackfyre and Varys is as well, how does that mesh with Varys initial plan for Viserys? Arya heard him and Illyrio plotting to put Viserys on the throne remember. Although I always found it weird that Viserys and Dany were thrown into such a dangerous situation with little to no protection; a whole host of things could have gone horribly wrong for them - and did in Viserys' case.
Jamesfrom818
Banned
Dany and Viserys were probably going to be betrayed at some point or used as fodder
Fiftyeight
Neo Member
How do some people already know some TWOW plot points? I've already had one potentially spoiled for me, so I'm curious as to how a book that's not yet released is still leaking so many plausible things.
Jamesfrom818
Banned
GRRM released some chapters early
Fiftyeight
Neo Member
I read the one he released for Theon but didn't know others existed. Theon's took place right where ADWD ended off; can I presume the others are from the beginning of TWOW as well? I'm okay with it being the introductory chapters but don't want to have anything mid-book spoiled.
I was just thinking that the next two books absolutely cannot have any pig jousting or food descriptions, because GRRM has a shitload of story threads to tie up.
- Dany with the new khalasar
- Victarion's fleet approaching Meereen
- Tyrion with the Second Sons
- Barristan holding down the fort in Meereen, Viserion and Rhaegal loose in the city
- Stannis, Theon and company outside Winterfell
- Boltons inside Winterfell
- Arya's assassin training (this has to tie back into the main story at some point)
- Sansa and Littlefinger in the Vale, possible plot to reinstate a Stark
- Bran learning high-level astral projection magic
- Connington kicking ass and taking names
- Aegon a real Targaryen?
- Jon dead/warging/resurrected by red magic?
- Zombie Cat confronting Jaime and Brienne? She must have a role to play yet; I doubt GRRM would resurrect her if he didn't plan to use her.
- Dornish plot?
- Issues in the Reach? Possible plotting from the Tyrells?
- Sir Bob Strong being used as a champion?
- Cersei back in control of King's Landing?
- Sam in the Citadel learning something which might be useful at some point, who the fuck knows?
- Some kind of shapeshifter dude in the Citadel? GRRM used a whole prologue on this, so it must be important.
- Others? I figure they'll be involved in the story again at some point.
I might be forgetting some open story threads; isn't there another Stark kid out there somewhere? Anyway, GRRM is going to need to tighten, tighten, and tighten some more to resolve all these storylines in a satisfying fashion.
- Dany with the new khalasar
- Victarion's fleet approaching Meereen
- Tyrion with the Second Sons
- Barristan holding down the fort in Meereen, Viserion and Rhaegal loose in the city
- Stannis, Theon and company outside Winterfell
- Boltons inside Winterfell
- Arya's assassin training (this has to tie back into the main story at some point)
- Sansa and Littlefinger in the Vale, possible plot to reinstate a Stark
- Bran learning high-level astral projection magic
- Connington kicking ass and taking names
- Aegon a real Targaryen?
- Jon dead/warging/resurrected by red magic?
- Zombie Cat confronting Jaime and Brienne? She must have a role to play yet; I doubt GRRM would resurrect her if he didn't plan to use her.
- Dornish plot?
- Issues in the Reach? Possible plotting from the Tyrells?
- Sir Bob Strong being used as a champion?
- Cersei back in control of King's Landing?
- Sam in the Citadel learning something which might be useful at some point, who the fuck knows?
- Some kind of shapeshifter dude in the Citadel? GRRM used a whole prologue on this, so it must be important.
- Others? I figure they'll be involved in the story again at some point.
I might be forgetting some open story threads; isn't there another Stark kid out there somewhere? Anyway, GRRM is going to need to tighten, tighten, and tighten some more to resolve all these storylines in a satisfying fashion.
I know, but people were saying a lot of the same things about ADWD (seriously, go back and read some of PD's pre-ADWD posts for very similar lists) and look what we got. Granted, ADWD was technically the second half of one big book, so maybe people were expecting more storyline resolutions than was possible given the timeline. Still I think there is no disputing the fact that George has done the opposite of "tighten, tighten, and tighten some more" with these last two books and I don't see that changing. I'd love to be proven wrong though.
Agreed. If anything, he introduced so many new plots, I don't know how many books it'd take to wrap them all up.
arglebargle
Member
rickon stark is somewhere with osha. davos may be on his way to find him. do we know what davos is up to and where rickon is?
Osha and Rickon are probably on Skagos and Davos is supposedly on his way to retrieve them.
You are assuming a lot of things friend, is he is going to tie up all the threads in a manner to satisfy the fanbase (unlikely), finish the series in 2 more novels (doubtful, if he finishes it, i see it taking at least 3 books to complete), or finish the series at all (not out of the realm of possibilities).
arglebargle
Member
why do we think skagos? just because thats the direction they were going in or did someone mention it? we know thats where davos was sent?
I recently finished ADWD. Although i have all the books in English, I read the first three in Hungarian. The translation is excellent and I liked it a bit more then the native version. Its kinda sad that now we have to wait probably a decade to see the conclusion of the story. Sometimes I even have doubts that Martin knows how to wrap it up.
@arglebargle
Because Theon's squire followed them and it was clearly described in a Davos chapter at Wyman Manderly's castle. Whether they are still there is a different matter.
@arglebargle
Because Theon's squire followed them and it was clearly described in a Davos chapter at Wyman Manderly's castle. Whether they are still there is a different matter.
The bolded is the thing. People's expectations were out of wack, IMO. Both AFFC and ADWD cover the same time period which includes alot of setup for all the characters and events. These 2 books were also what I like to call "calm down" period after the almost non-stop wildness in ASOS. Could he have trimmed down and cut out alot stuff in these 2 book? Absolutely. However I feel strongly that shit is going to get real ASOS style in TWOW. You could already see the beginnings of this at the end of ADWD, with Jon's stabbing, Dany coming up on a huge khalesar and 2 of her dragons running wild in Meeren, Aegon warring through Westeros, the disarray Keven Lannister's death is going to cause in Kings Landing, Stannis inching closer to Winterfell, etc.
So, I think TWOW is going to shut alot of people up.
In about 6 years. LOL I kid, kid
Mattdaddy
Gold Member
Reading through Game of Thrones again... and the part where they all are departing Winterfell is pretty freakin sad if you've read the series. The first time I read it I was all excited cause these different adventures were branching off to get started... now that I know what happens it's like "Oh man, this is the last time they all ever see each other. "
"Yes, Wex throws the dagger into the map and although it doesn't say in the text where it lands Davos thinks he doesn't want to journey to where "men break fast on human flesh." Skagos is the only location in the books that has been referred to as being inhabited by cannibals.
Steelyuhas
Member
I guess Vary's still could have used Dany to marry Aegon, although I don't really see why it would be important to him that he marries Dany.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Agreed, many of us figured there were basic plot points that had to be addressed...and a lot of stuff simply wasn't addressed such as Robb's letter or Coldhand's identity.
Then of course there were the theories and predictions that didn't come to pass, mainly Tyrion and others reaching Dany; I think many people were so disappointed by the book because it didn't featuring these type of plot points or revelations (ie Jon's mother) that they had been anticipating for years.
The Mereenese Knot George spoke about so much still hasn't been fully cut - Dany met one person who set out to meet her in AFFC/ADWD. Tyrion and Victarion are very close to Mereen now but a new layer of plot has been added to make their journey harder - ie open war. And while some obvious pieces seem to be in place (for instance, Victarion using his fleet the break the blockade, or Dany receiving help from Tyrion's group to break the siege on land...after ADWD perhaps it's safe to say nothing is obvious or a given. Perhaps the only thing that can be said is that the time of diplomacy is over for Dany and others, and war (and winter) is officially on. Which means more action
It's hard to see how he can possibly finish this in two books, given what happened with AFFC/ADWD. Both of which I really liked, and certainly a lot of stuff happened, but just not the stuff that could have advanced certain major plot points. It's somewhat funny that all while Dany is dithering with Mereen, dithering with dragons, and now apparently dithering with another Dothraki khalasar, Aegon ran into Tyrion and was tricked into heading for Westeros ASAP. AND he's already conquering shit without dragons or any support from major houses.
Jamesfrom818
Banned
If the next two books are going to be even more action packed than Storm of Swords, I'll be happy.
Neffarias_Bredd
Member
This was easily the most frustrating part of the book, especially Tyrion not meeting Dany. Gah it's impossible to put into words how freaking frustrating it was to have Tyrion stranded right outside the city and involved in a boring plot-line that I could care less about. I just wanted to read through the book as fast as possible so that things would come to a head, and I missed a lot of the book because of it.
PhoenixDark
Banned
This is also a very good point, and forgotten. ADWD/AFFC were indeed one big book. And while I'm not going to predict or anticipate any specific things happening in TWOW, I do expect it to be more in line with ACOK or ASOS than AFFC/ADWD.
Ok maybe I will predict something: I think it's safe to say we WILL see the two battles that were cut from ADWD - Winterfell and Mereen.
Steelyuhas
Member
I hope we find out what happened to Benjen in the final two books.
Thought that chapter in Dance was awesome.
Thought that chapter in Dance was awesome.
Jamesfrom818
Banned
Like Judy from Family Matters? She went up the stairs in one episodes and never came back down.
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