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[bengraven]

He actually said those words, the process of them spreading out is reversed? At least three of them are dead and one has just been stabbed multiple times so whether he is just injured or kept alive through magic he will be slowed down in some ways. Besides Jon can't move much because he needs to be looking after the wall. Oh and Bran doesn't have legs.

I suppose they could all meet at the Wall or perhaps Bran can reach all of them through the trees like a five way call. Of course they could all meet at the great hall of winterfell in the afterlife.

Spoiler

Ned: Hey kiddo.

Jon:[Shocked] Dad?

Ned: Hello, Jon.

Jon: ...I don't understand. You died.

Ned: Yeah I did.

Jon: Then how are you here right now?

Ned: How are you here?

Jon: [Pauses] I died too.

Ned: Oh...well...shit...um...by the way, I'm actually your uncle.

 

[28 Posts Later]

Considering Rickon barely knew his parents*, he's in the care of a wildling now and (presumably) living in Skagos (with cannibals!)... I think his inherent "wildness" has been or could be amplified. I don't think it's a very, um, "healthy" upbringing to be honest

*: I'm obviously referring to the fact he was like, what, 4 years old when Ned was beheaded... and then Catelyn went away, so he spent the rest of the time without any of his parents.

True. There's more chance of Rickon holding onto his identity as a Stark [even if it's in name alone] than any other character likely to meet at present however. Sansa and Arya are both assuming other identities - and although there're clear narrative threads that have been put in place that will allow them to return to their previous roles [Littlefinger's plan, Needle / Nymeria] this is ASOIAF, so anything could happen.

I can't see Bran reuniting with another Stark, and Catelyn is no longer herself.

Jon isn't a Stark.

 

[Chuck Norris]

From this interview:

That doesn't necessarily mean the core characters at the start of book 1 are the same as the ones at the end of the series, or that they meet again. The story "deltaing in" could simply refer to characters dying, until there are less secondary characters and less locations to deal with.

Eventually with all the characters dying it will leave only a few major story threads

 

[28 Posts Later]

That doesn't necessarily mean the core characters at the start of book 1 are the same as the ones at the end of the series, or that they meet again. The story "deltaing in" could simply refer to characters dying, until there are less secondary characters and less locations to deal with.

Eventually with all the characters dying it will leave only a few major story threads

You raise a good point, it's certainly a response that could be interpreted a number of ways.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

NO MATTER WHAT THEY ARE ALL STARKS AT HEART, GOSH.

 

[Altazor]

That doesn't necessarily mean the core characters at the start of book 1 are the same as the ones at the end of the series, or that they meet again. The story "deltaing in" could simply refer to characters dying, until there are less secondary characters and less locations to deal with.

Eventually with all the characters dying it will leave only a few major story threads

that's a good point.

 

[jett]

The ygritte they cast is too pretty. They don't need someone ugly, but maybe someone thats less model looking.

Eh, I always imagined Ygritte to be pretty.

 

[CrunchyB]

I'm pretty sure [Jon] is not dead.

Jon's dead. But I'll eat my shoe if he stays dead. There's been a ton of hints:

Most importantly, the series is called SONG OF ICE AND FIRE, almost certainly referring to Jon Targaryen, the trueborn son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark, married before a heart tree. The dude is not gone forever, he will be in the last book, one way or the other.

Also:

* Azor Ahai prophecy
* Night's Watch oath until death
* Melissandre's proximity + R'Hllor resurrection magic
* 998th Lord Commander
* Prologue about wargs having a second life
* Corpses being stored in the ice cells + Bran's vision
* Dany's blue rose vision

Come on guys, we haven't seen the last of him. Most likely, there will be a minor riot between the wilderlings and the Night's Watch, but because the wilderling kids are held hostage, nothing big will happen. After the dust has settled down, Melly will resurrect Jon, now relieved of his vows and the Azor Ahai will kick ass. He will also discover his true parentage and maybe even marry his aunt Dany. At the end, he will become the 1000th Lord Commander.

I don't doubt there will be all kinds of unexpected and probably horrific stuff happening in between all of this, but Martin has invested way too much time already to abandon this course.

 

[apana]

Jon's dead. But I'll eat my shoe if he stays dead. There's been a ton of hints:

Most importantly, the series is called SONG OF ICE AND FIRE, almost certainly referring to Jon Targaryen, the trueborn son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark, married before a heart tree. The dude is not gone forever, he will be in the last book, one way or the other.

Come on guys, we haven't seen the last of him. Most likely, there will be a minor riot between the wilderlings and the Night's Watch, but because the wilderling kids are held hostage, nothing big will happen. After the dust has settled down, Melly will resurrect Jon, now relieved of his vows and the Azor Ahai will kick ass. He will also discover his true parentage and maybe even marry his aunt Dany. At the end, he will become the 1000th Lord Commander.

I don't doubt there will be all kinds of unexpected and probably horrific stuff happening in between all of this, but Martin has invested way too much time already to abandon this course.

I love how everyone just casually accepts this stuff now.

Is it possible that Bran and Arya will meet again? I remember that part in ADWD where he thought that the child of the forest looked like his sister. I don't know maybe he just misses her but George does try to hint at things. Maybe Arya will stay a child forever?

 

[Salvadora]

Yeah there were too many hints for Jon to be completely dead at the very least.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Jon isn't dead, or at least won't stay dead. He'll either be quickly healed from non-mortal wounds or his body might be stored in the Wall until he can be restored.

Or maybe the point of Bran/Bloodraven using ravens to tell Stannis to execute Theon on a weirwood tree is to revive Jon

 

[Chuck Norris]

They are fighting an army of undead zombie creatures, I can't imagine them NOT burning Jon's body. And even if he came back to life, who is going to follow an undead freak? These guys had enough trouble following a guy for associating with wildings

 

[apana]

They are fighting an army of undead zombie creatures, I can't imagine them NOT burning Jon's body. And even if he came back to life, who is going to follow an undead freak? These guys had enough trouble following a guy for associating with wildings

If Jon was permanently dead as in never coming back then George would have just told us in that book. A death of a central character is an important moment in the story and he won't wait for 4 years to announce that he is actually dead.

 

[aceface]

I think that maybe we should just all agree that the first three books were great and let someone else finish up the series. George is too busy.

 

[tokkun]

J
* 998th Lord Commander

At the end, he will become the 1000th Lord Commander.

Didn't Sam say something like the count of Lord Commanders was inaccurate based on his research?

 

[apana]

Dance With Dragons had the potential to be up there with the first three. The first chapter with Varamyr was awesome and for a second I was thinking this was gonna be the best one but like with Feast for Crows he wasn't interested in telling a larger story, he wanted to set more things up. Both Feast and Dance are still amazing books and he is still delivering memorable chapters so I'm cool. Winds of Winter and Dream will have to be focused on narrative just because he has no other choice. He doesn't have a whole lot of chapters for each character to finish their journey.

 

[smokeandmirrors]

Yeah I'm still trying to figure out how he'll do it. But I'm assuming we'll see Storm of Swords sized books for the next two.

Also thinking about this the other day, and in one of Daenery's prophecies, "In order to go forward, you have to go back", I'm assuming means going back to the Dothraki, which is set up at the very end.

 

[ZeroRay]

Honestly, DwD has some of the best chapters in the series. Theon's, Bran's, Davos', Victarion's, Varymyr, and Kevan were all fucking great.

All that setting up will have a monumental payoff, I'm expecting.

 

[Saint Gregory]

About who gets to ride Viserion and Rheagal: Have there been other characters in the books who couldn't be burned? Quentyn burned his hand on the flame, Viserys died from the golden crown, obviously they weren't real dragons. Dany could touch the hot eggs in...GoT? Anyone else who had fireproof hands, I don't recall.

I was really confused about this in the beginning because I was sure that Jon was going to be one of the other riders until he burned his hand saving the lord commander in AGOT. Later I realized that the Targaryen dragonlords aren't all inherently immune to fire, as several of them die by fire as the history of the bloodline are covered in the other books.

Clearly Dany's immunity to fire has some other significance that hasn't been revealed yet but I'm leaning towards her being the female Azor Ahai.

 

[Puddles]

I love Victarion's ADWD arc. When the red priest heals his hand and gives him super strength, and then he crushes that captive's throat with the burned hand, that was pretty awesome.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Honestly, DwD has some of the best chapters in the series. Theon's, Bran's, Davos', Victarion's, Varymyr, and Kevan were all fucking great.

All that setting up will have a monumental payoff, I'm expecting.

The beginning of TWOW should be pretty packed, from the Stannis/Bolton battle to the Meeren battle. Obviously both require a few chapters to set up but it can't be too much, as both were initially supposed to be in ADWD. In Stannis' case we already have one of the TWOW chapters (Theon's), which is very good and suggests a battle is nigh imminent.

I just wonder whether Dany will simply annihilate the Khalasar she ran across, or will we get a couple chapters of her interacting with them. Their khal will definitely die, but maybe she takes control of the Khalasar and lead them to Mereen?

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

Honestly, DwD has some of the best chapters in the series. Theon's, Bran's, Davos', Victarion's, Varymyr, and Kevan were all fucking great.

All that setting up will have a monumental payoff, I'm expecting.

Without a doubt. Theon's arc was amazing, and Davos had some great chapters. I liked Theon even prior to Dance, but now he's one of my favorite characters in the series (Davos is still number one, though).

The "North remembers" chapter and Theon's reunion with Asha are two of my favorite moments in the entire series. Victarion's chapters are all pretty awesome, and they really made me start to care about his character.

 

[mugwhump]

it's called "Pulling a Rothfuss"

What? How so? I dun get it.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Didn't Sam say something like the count of Lord Commanders was inaccurate based on his research?

True, but that wouldn't stop the perception of there being a 999th and 1000th Lord Commander; it would be in line with Martin's love of exposing myths as ruses. I could see Stannis becoming the 999th or 1000th Lord Commander, Melisandre declaring it an omen of his true power...and him dying shortly after against The Others.

 

[tmdorsey]

I just wonder whether Dany will simply annihilate the Khalasar she ran across, or will we get a couple chapters of her interacting with them. Their khal will definitely die, but maybe she takes control of the Khalasar and lead them to Mereen?

Gah, I need that book now!

 

[Emerson]

The beginning of TWOW should be pretty packed, from the Stannis/Bolton battle to the Meeren battle. Obviously both require a few chapters to set up but it can't be too much, as both were initially supposed to be in ADWD. In Stannis' case we already have one of the TWOW chapters (Theon's), which is very good and suggests a battle is nigh imminent.

I just wonder whether Dany will simply annihilate the Khalasar she ran across, or will we get a couple chapters of her interacting with them. Their khal will definitely die, but maybe she takes control of the Khalasar and lead them to Mereen?

I only read it once so maybe I'm wrong but I thought it implied the opposite- that Stannis was going to hold off due to the arrival of the Braavosi banker.

 

[bengraven]

Without a doubt. Theon's arc was amazing, and Davos had some great chapters. I liked Theon even prior to Dance, but now he's one of my favorite characters in the series (Davos is still number one, though).

The "North remembers" chapter and Theon's reunion with Asha are two of my favorite moments in the entire series. Victarion's chapters are all pretty awesome, and they really made me start to care about his character.

I think this is the first time I've ever 100% agreed with you.

True, but that wouldn't stop the perception of there being a 999th and 1000th Lord Commander; it would be in line with Martin's love of exposing myths as ruses. I could see Stannis becoming the 999th or 1000th Lord Commander, Melisandre declaring it an omen of his true power...and him dying shortly after against The Others.

I can actually see Stannis, who doesn't understand/fully respect the laws of the Night's Watch, saying that since he's King of the North now he's going to disband the NW or simply reintegrate it with his military somehow, removing the need of a Watch Commander. So there will never be a 999th. I could see GRRM doing that.

Either that or Stannis takes it upon himself to be 999 and Jon eventually comes back and is basically considered the 1000th.

or Sam.

 

[Sleeper901]

Guys one question

In book 1 Varys is the one to launch the assassins on Darnerys, and even says to Ned that he can't recall them once they agree in the small council that they should stop with mission.

And we see in ADWD (before as well but more clearly in the book) that all he is been doing for years is for the return of the Targaryens

So why has did he do that in the first place

Please enlighten me

 

[Lactose_Intolerant]

Guys one question

In book 1 Varys is the one to launch the assassins on Darnerys, and even says to Ned that he can't recall them once they agree in the small council that they should stop with mission.

And we see in ADWD (before as well but more clearly in the book) that all he is been doing for years is for the return of the Targaryens

So why has did he do that in the first place

Please enlighten me

He warned Sir Jorah about it so he could stop it. Plus it would kick start Drogo in actually caring about invading Westeros.

 

[PhoenixDark]

I only read it once so maybe I'm wrong but I thought it implied the opposite- that Stannis was going to hold off due to the arrival of the Braavosi banker.

Have you rad the TWOW sample chapter?

Spoiler

Stannis discovered the Karstark traitors and dealt with them, then began planning the battle; he seems to suggest some type of ruse (perhaps with the ice lake) will be used. The Frey/Manderly force is already on its way, Stannis doesn't have much time to prepare.

The North men want him to execute Theon and it sounds like Stannis finally realizes he has to appease their demands, if he wants to retain their loyalty. I just wonder whether Theon will actually be killed, or if he's being brought to the weirwood so Bran can give Stannis some type of sign/message

 

[sharbhund]

I just wonder whether Dany will simply annihilate the Khalasar she ran across, or will we get a couple chapters of her interacting with them. Their khal will definitely die, but maybe she takes control of the Khalasar and lead them to Mereen?

At least two members of that Khalasar will die, Jhaqo and Mago, since that's one of the loose ends from the first book:

"It was a cruel fate, yet not so cruel as Mago's will be. I promise you that, by the old gods and the new, by the lamb god and the horse god and every god that lives. I swear by the Mother of Mountains and the Womb of the World. Before I am done with them, Mago and Ko Jhaqo will plead for the mercy they showed Eroeh."

 

[elrechazado]

At least two members of that Khalasar will die, Jhaqo and Mago, since that's one of the loose ends from the first book:

How do you know that's this specific khalasar? There are dozens of them big and small.

 

[Emerson]

Have you rad the TWOW sample chapter?

Spoiler

Stannis discovered the Karstark traitors and dealt with them, then began planning the battle; he seems to suggest some type of ruse (perhaps with the ice lake) will be used. The Frey/Manderly force is already on its way, Stannis doesn't have much time to prepare.

The North men want him to execute Theon and it sounds like Stannis finally realizes he has to appease their demands, if he wants to retain their loyalty. I just wonder whether Theon will actually be killed, or if he's being brought to the weirwood so Bran can give Stannis some type of sign/message

Yeah I read it, I just really thought

Spoiler

the Braavosi guy arrived and that was implied to be changing Stannis's plans, as it should do

 

[sharbhund]

How do you know that's this specific khalasar? There are dozens of them big and small.

The last line in ADWD before the Epilogue is:

That was how Khal Jhaqo found her, when half a hundred mounted warriors emerged from the drifting smoke.

 

[elrechazado]

The last line in ADWD before the Epilogue is:

Ahh. Been too long since I read, good one.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Yeah I read it, I just really thought

Spoiler

the Braavosi guy arrived and that was implied to be changing Stannis's plans, as it should do

Spoiler

It may have changed his plans but it's not like Stannis has a lot of time to dick around; the forces will be on his ass soon. The main change was him buying sell swords. That strikes me as something that won't work; assuming Massey lives long enough to reach Braavos, I can't see him getting sell swords and bringing them all the way back North.

I do believe Stannis will win the battle and re-take Winterfell though. I think the only thing that will defeat Stannis will either be The Others on the Wall, or if he goes south; the old gods will be on his side soon

 

[apana]

edit: work in progress

 

[Ithil]

Patchface is totally going to kill a major character.

 

[apana]

Patchface is totally going to kill a major character.

Just when it seems like they have fought back the Others, Patchface blows up the wall. "Let's put a smile on that face".

 

[bluemax]

I hope no one is expecting GURM to start writing Winds of Winter soon:

"In between all this, I have, hmmmmm, lemme see, one two three four FIVE projects that I am currently working on, four of which were due months ago... but it's the fifth that has all my attention now, that I absolutely must finish and deliver before the trip to the UK.

(Oh, and somewhere in there me and my assistants and my accountant must find time to prepare my taxes, so I can write the IRS the biggest check that I have written in my life. I am going to be much, much poorer by month's end)

Busy, busy, busy.

I love the work, actually. I just hate the deadlines."

5 past due projects none of which are the Winds of Winter.

 

[Dresden]

It's okay, I stopped giving a fuck a while ago.

 

[Altazor]

DOOOOOOMED, i say... DOOOOOOOOOMED!

5-year wait CONFIRMED.

 

[PhoenixDark]

I don't see how someone with so many commitments thinks it's a good idea to essentially tour the world nonstop. He spent most of 2011 doing that, and for good reason: it was a well deserved victory lap. But this is 2012 and he has stuff to finish.

The true convention stuff gets heavy in the summer and early fall. If he's already touring the world now, how the hell can anyone expect him not to do it all over again in a few months. lmao

Anyway I feel shitty for accidentally spoiling Jon "dying" for someone, on another message board

 

[jett]

Ugh, GRRM.

Pretty cool speculative world map. Not perfect, but GRRM says it is pretty close. An official world map is coming at the end of this year, but this is the best we have so far.

Click the image for a HUGE version


More info about the map, plus a Google Earth version, at the artist's website.

Some of those areas, where do they come from? The fuck is Ibben? And all those places in Sothoryos?

 

[q_q]

Some of those areas, where do they come from? The fuck is Ibben? And all those places in Sothoryos?

It's from the Expanded Universe dude, duh.

 

[jett]

It's from the Expanded Universe dude, duh.

wut

 

[Emitan]

It's from the Expanded Universe dude, duh.

is that the one where luke is with the emperor's clone and he marries mara jade

 

[PhoenixDark]

Ibben is mentioned in the books. And Sothoryos is apparently like Africa or something.

 

[Binabik15]

Ugh, GRRM.



Some of those areas, where do they come from? The fuck is Ibben? And all those places in Sothoryos?

Didn't pay attention when he had hairy Ibbenese men fuck each other, did you?

One of the free cities, I think. At least it's independet. People from Ibben are very hairy, it seems, almost like monkeys. I think Ser Jorah is comparad to an Ibbenese, I think by Tyrion.

The Sothoryos stuff is actually in the books, on the maps for Essos.

 

[apana]

lol At all the people who said it would take three years. Winds of Winter 2018.