The Albatross
Member
Yep.
There is no way that GRRM lives to finish this series.
It's sort of alright. Because ADWD was trash.
YES I SAID IT.
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A Song of Ice and Fire -- **Unmarked Spoilers For All Books including ADWD**
- Thread starter Pollux
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Yep.
There is no way that GRRM lives to finish this series.
It's sort of alright. Because ADWD was trash.
YES I SAID IT.
Supermanisdead
Member
Pretty cool speculative world map. Not perfect, but GRRM says it is pretty close. An official world map is coming at the end of this year, but this is the best we have so far.
Click the image for a HUGE version
More info about the map, plus a Google Earth version, at the artist's website.
Wow, I didn't realize how far East Qarth was. Go even further next book. I want to see the Shadowlands and Asshai.
I don't think many people will disagree with you. How many years did we wait for ADWD?
Technically, it was a six-year wait. Effectively, eleven years to know what the hell happened with Tyrion, Jon and Dany. If I had been reading the series from its original release I think I would've lost my mind.
bodyofanamerican
Member
HBO series remains the best thing that could have happened for us, the readers.
Figure Storm is wrapped by 2014. I maintain you can condense Feast/Dance into 1 or 1.5 seasons, and here we are at 2015 or 2016. I am very curious if the shows just pass the books and we get the full series on TV or George gets on his horse and finishes the last 2 books.
Figure Storm is wrapped by 2014. I maintain you can condense Feast/Dance into 1 or 1.5 seasons, and here we are at 2015 or 2016. I am very curious if the shows just pass the books and we get the full series on TV or George gets on his horse and finishes the last 2 books.
The Albatross
Member
Yeah, the HBO series is great for us... but... part of me thinks it'll never get beyond Season 3, which will be a LONG season (12+ episodes)... And so much drops off. I think it's going to be hard for fans to get caught up in storylines that have no resolutions for many seasons. Mostly, looking at Sansa, Arya, Rickon, Dany, etc.
So far, in five books, only three characters have had any closure to their storylines, Ned Stark, Robb Stark, and Joffrey. I'm most worried about how Dany will appeal on television. Season 1 was epic for Dany and so many fans are caught up in her story, she's the main draw for the show probably going into Season 2, yet, now, basically nothing happens to her for 4 more books, and she finishes book 5 essentially exactly where she was at the end of Book 1 -- in front of a Khalasar with the prospect of dragons. This can work in books because you know that they'll HOPEFULLY tie it up by the 7th book .. but ... on TV, I don't think that there is an attention span for that sort of "development."
So far, in five books, only three characters have had any closure to their storylines, Ned Stark, Robb Stark, and Joffrey. I'm most worried about how Dany will appeal on television. Season 1 was epic for Dany and so many fans are caught up in her story, she's the main draw for the show probably going into Season 2, yet, now, basically nothing happens to her for 4 more books, and she finishes book 5 essentially exactly where she was at the end of Book 1 -- in front of a Khalasar with the prospect of dragons. This can work in books because you know that they'll HOPEFULLY tie it up by the 7th book .. but ... on TV, I don't think that there is an attention span for that sort of "development."
She is one of the main draws. I think viewers will be alright with it because she has a very important and big budget scene this season with the house of the undying vision. I'm okay with Bran's storyline being skimped on if they get three things right this season: at least some warging, proper battle of blackwater, and Dany's vision with all the CGI and effects required.
bodyofanamerican
Member
I agree on the issues with Dany's story, but as they've said, they're taking some stuff from ASoS and putting it into Season 2 where it matters, etc. They can definitely condense a LOT of stuff particularly in ADWD and AFFC and keep her story moving.
Plus, I believe Benioff and Weiss know how the whole story ends, or at least have an idea of it from GRRM himself. So maybe they will cut and condense as necessary and finish the story before the books do.
Plus, I believe Benioff and Weiss know how the whole story ends, or at least have an idea of it from GRRM himself. So maybe they will cut and condense as necessary and finish the story before the books do.
The God of Nonexistence
Member
Jon still features in Sam's chapters in Feast.
shadowsdarknes
Member
And don't forget she starts fucking sacking towns and freeing slaves with her dragons. A lot of her stuff is bullshit but I think it will translate well into television. Some exposition while she is traveling, where to, introducing new characters and familiar ones, leading to small climatic events like her assassination attempt up until she starts sacking cities. Her plotline looks very promising on screen.
No that would be a sin, it needs to happen in the books first. They should keep going as far as they can take it and then just stop. Storm of Swords would be a perfect place to end it and that would be four seasons long but they will probably go up to the end of ADWD (six or seven seasons) and that is fine with me. The finale can be done in the books. People will understand.
bodyofanamerican
Member
Definitely understand where you're coming from, but if the show's popularity continues, I don't think HBO will give much of a crap about the sanctity of GRRM's written word. I really wonder if this was a clause written into his contract at the beginning of the whole deal.
If the show's still going strong after they wrap Storm (which is rumored to be filmed back to back as 2 seasons, correct?), they'll press on ahead with Feast and Dance and I just see no way HBO just yells "OK STOP! LET'S WAIT FOR GEORGE!" before starting Winds.
Supermanisdead
Member
we always have fanfic, you guys!
The Albatross
Member
House of the Undying is great for readers because it's an awesome scene to later go back and say "Woah, look how all of that stuff was prophesized." BUt for people watching the TV show, in that episode, they're going to say, "What the hell is going on and what is this shit?"
There just isn't the same obsessive buy-in with characters backstories and their possibilities in the TV show as there is in the books, it's a different level of dedication to read 1,000 pages of text and get enveloped in stories, than to passively watch a show.
It'll be awesome for people who have already read the books tho, I cant want to see how it's done.
It just wouldn't work. He told them the general ending but he hasn't written it yet. He was just telling them in case he dies so someone knows and could possibly continue on if there is no other option. They have good writers and directors but the reason the show is epic is because they have a great story already written for them in detail. Besides HBO doesn't work like that, they wouldn't just run rough shot over someone else's work. David and Dan just wanted to get to the red wedding and they will. The story that can be told is the first three books which do have an ending of sorts, the other stuff is icing on the cake and more related to the fantasy elements than the political drama of the Starks and Lannisters that we are seeing unfold.
I think House of Undying will be cool for everyone because it will be properly adapted and there will be a lot of mystery and magic for the viewers to watch. They will cut out some stuff and what will be left will be the parts that will appeal visually. My guess is woman in the bath tub, a skeleton on a throne with bodies laying around him, Rhaegar and Elia, and finally a CGI heavy ending with a blue beating heart and the undying trying to kill her with dragons saving the day.
put brandon sanderson on it!
The God of Nonexistence
Member
Wheel of Time would still eke it out by by one year (1990 - 2013).
LegendofJoe
Member
I don't understand how someone as lazy as GRRM ever became successful.
pr0cs
Member
I don't know if I'd call him lazy, the books are pretty complex if you dig into all the fine details. I know I've missed a ton of stuff based off what I read in this thread alone.
That being said you'd think he'd strike while the iron is hot. The property is hot, the amount of fans the series gains each month/year is probably staggering. Anecdotal-ly I've seen people reading the books in places that I'd never expect for a title with this sort of background (fantasy) so the audience is growing. You'd think he would pressure himself to actually finish the stories sooner rather than later to take advantage of the popularity.
I suppose for him personally his love of the stories is grown from absence and pushing himself to finish them would probably make him lose a lot of love from writing them and joy from working on them.
I just hope he finishes the books, if something happens to him before they're done it will be crushing for those of us who really enjoy them.
Funniest thing is that that would just be book six of a planned seven-book series, and there's no conceivable way he can end this thing in just two more books.
smokeandmirrors
Banned
I'd like to believe he's just saying it to quell people from pestering him about it. But I know better.
Still. Get yer shit together GRRM
Still. Get yer shit together GRRM
Steelyuhas
Member
Meh, I watch and discuss the show with several non-book readers and they are all drawn by Robb for season 2, with Jon being up there as well. I think people are just as excited for Robb and Jon storylines and hoping to see Joffrey dead as they are for Dany.
LegendofJoe
Member
Since when is work happy and joyful all the time? Sometimes you just have to grit your teeth and power through stressful periods at work. In my opinion the success the series has enjoyed is precisely what has made him lazy. The money that he's made over the past year has in all likelihood made it worse.
Basileus777
Member
He's older now, he's been writing for decades and is not exactly in his prime anymore. You are questioning the work ethnic of a guy entering retirement age.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
He's written a huge amount of material over the years. I hardly think you can look at Martin's collected works and say the man is lazy. Especially when you consider that this latest discussion spiraled out of comments Martin made about all the new projects he's taken on in recent months.
If Martin were lazy, he would be doing the bare minimum work he needed to, as opposed to putting out new short stories, anthologies, etc at every turn.
He'e lazy because he's writing a ton of stuff that's not what you want?
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Alright, just finished up ADWD. Awesome stuff. It definitly feels like the major plotlines surrounding Westeros politics (including Daenerys and the dragons) can be wrapped up in one more book, but I think that the Others and what's going on with Bran feel like they need at least two more books.
Also standard stuff I want answers to
That I'm sure will be answered:
-What happened to Jaime, Brienne, and zombie Catelyn
-What's going on with Sansa and Littlefinger
-Where Arya's storyline is going
That I'm less sure will be answered:
-What's going on with R'Hllor and the red priests? Of all the religions they seem to be the ones with actual power. Where does it derive from?
-Will we find anything out about the nature of the Others or will they just remain as alien enemies?
Also its been a while since I read GoT and a semi-while since I read SoS, so I may have forgotten, but do we have a good picture of the last thousand years of history? The Targaryens united the seven kingdoms a few centures ago, but were they related to High Valyria at all? (That dragon connection and all)
Also standard stuff I want answers to
That I'm sure will be answered:
-What happened to Jaime, Brienne, and zombie Catelyn
-What's going on with Sansa and Littlefinger
-Where Arya's storyline is going
That I'm less sure will be answered:
-What's going on with R'Hllor and the red priests? Of all the religions they seem to be the ones with actual power. Where does it derive from?
-Will we find anything out about the nature of the Others or will they just remain as alien enemies?
Also its been a while since I read GoT and a semi-while since I read SoS, so I may have forgotten, but do we have a good picture of the last thousand years of history? The Targaryens united the seven kingdoms a few centures ago, but were they related to High Valyria at all? (That dragon connection and all)
Gamer @ Heart
Member
I bet we will find out more about the others at the same time we learn about R'Hollor. They go hand in hand it seems. I love that they are the only two to show any kind of force. The mystery is great. Bran is in a great position to learn about all that stuff at this point from the old ones.
I was talking mostly about the ending of her house of undying journey. The other parts can be done with proper set design but the last part with the big blue beating heart and the dragon can't be done without CGI.
Isn't the northernes faith "strong" in the sense it gives them power?
puddles he is literally one of the best characters
in a sea of fuckers sitting around talking about what they should be doing one man went and actually did some goddamn things
The Targaryans were refugees of Valarya after it fell. They built Dragonstone and chilled there for a while and then invaded Westeros.
A lot of people go on about how the protagonists and "good guys" always get shit on in ASOIAF and die horribly, but let's give Martin some credit, the villains so far have recieved particularly nasty or humiliating ends, too, and just as many as the other side.
I mean, sure, the Red Wedding is going to be devastating to the TV audience, but soon after, Joffrey has his very painful and unpleasant death, and not long after that, Tywin takes a crossbow bolt to the balls and dies literally shitting himself. Gregor Clegane, too, though he doesn't actually die til AFFC, it's clear he's already a dead man after the duel.
Bad guys get equally bad deaths, and that's gotta count for something after the RW
I mean, sure, the Red Wedding is going to be devastating to the TV audience, but soon after, Joffrey has his very painful and unpleasant death, and not long after that, Tywin takes a crossbow bolt to the balls and dies literally shitting himself. Gregor Clegane, too, though he doesn't actually die til AFFC, it's clear he's already a dead man after the duel.
Bad guys get equally bad deaths, and that's gotta count for something after the RW
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
I think it will wind up being padded. There's probably going to be some ACOK stuff in season 3 like the Theon and Ramsay storyline. It could potentially fill two seasons. Although given how they've heavily hinted that season 3 will end with the Red Wedding and there's only about 1/3 of ASOS left after that I could see season 4 being half ASOS with the other half being AFFC/ADWD and then season 5 being the remainder of those two books.
The Targaryens were a part of the ruling class of Valyria. They weren't a particularly powerful family as they only held the small spit of land at the furthest western point of the Empire. The Valyrian Empire had spread as far as Dragonstone, but had not yet conquered Westeros proper. When the Doom occurred and the Empire fell, most of the rest of the Valyrian Empire descended into civil war and ultimately ended up getting split into the Free Cities, which still fight to this day. The Targaryens decided to invade Westeros, instead of getting involved in the battle over the Free Cities. Having the only 3 dragons left in the world helped them easily conquer all but the region of Dorne. Dorne eventually joined the realm via a marriage between the ruling families of House Targaryen and House Martell.
so i started reading the 5th book, the one about dancing dragons.
i use to like tyrion, but there were always some qualities i didn't like. and when he killed his father, i wasn't impressed by him at all. was i suppose to cheer him on when he did that? anyway my like for him just became dislike.
then i i read his first chapter in the book, and he wants to kill jaime? the hell? all because of one lie about some wench? jaime was pretty cool with him for so long. now i just hate this character.
oh yeah, is varys friends with that fat guy that has tyrion in custody? it's starting to make sense why he would take care of the two targs before. i probably missed where it was said, but i think they are good friends in the past. i don't see how else he would help unless it really is just for the money.
also is varys working with both the fat guy from dorne, and the fat guy in that free city to help dany?
i use to like tyrion, but there were always some qualities i didn't like. and when he killed his father, i wasn't impressed by him at all. was i suppose to cheer him on when he did that? anyway my like for him just became dislike.
then i i read his first chapter in the book, and he wants to kill jaime? the hell? all because of one lie about some wench? jaime was pretty cool with him for so long. now i just hate this character.
oh yeah, is varys friends with that fat guy that has tyrion in custody? it's starting to make sense why he would take care of the two targs before. i probably missed where it was said, but i think they are good friends in the past. i don't see how else he would help unless it really is just for the money.
also is varys working with both the fat guy from dorne, and the fat guy in that free city to help dany?
adamsappel
Member
I just love people who think writing books is as easy as reading them.
LegendofJoe
Member
And I just love people who read things that aren't there.
But back to what I said I was wrong to imply that Martin has always been lazy. I do not know him anywhere near as much as I would need to in order to make that kind of judgement. I do however know he has become markedly less productive since finishing A Storm of Swords. His own statements corroborate this. The latest one where he said he was working on 5 different projects, all of which are past due, was what motivated me to post what I did. It was a little harsh, but I don't think labeling him as lazy is a completely baseless criticism.
Is Gregor really dead?
bengraven
Member
He edits 3-5 anthologies a year (going through hundreds of stories to do so) which is more work that it sounds like. He writes a few short stories every year. He probably writes twice as much for Winds than he will actually put out that year, even if this is only hundreds of pages. He has meetings with HBO during production. He's doing the comic series and overseeing dozens of Ice and Fire licensing deals.
Yeah, he's not as busy as he was 20 years ago, but he's an old man and still working pretty fucking hard at the same age most men have already retired at.
I would imagine he did die, certainly, except they reanimated him as FrankenGregor.
The poison was fatal, after all, and he got hit with a lot of it.
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