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[PhoenixDark]

I've seen it posted on Westeros.org that Martin was asked about the Jeyne switch and the difference in description (the hips in particular) at some convention or some other event, and he said it was a mistake, that he had just forgotten the earlier description and no one noticed during the editing. It's also apparently fixed in at least some of the translations, but I dunno if it's true or not.

I kinda hope she isn't pregnant, since I don't really see what Baby King in the North would add to the story. I'm more curious about Robb's will.

Same here. I was rather disappointed that there wasn't a reference about it in ADWD. Ultimately the letter is more interesting than another "twist" type reveal, which is what a pregnant Jeyne Westerling would be imo

I took the descriptions as the differences in POVs. Catelyn was looking at Jeyne as a potential mother, Jaime was looking at her as a sexual object. Plus she could have simply lost some weight; it's not like her eye or hair color changed, which would make the theory more attractive to me.

Still, Edmure sure was quite happy about something despite his imprisonment and the loss of his sister and king/nephew. He certainly knew about the Blackfish's escape, but it seems like that alone wouldn't make him as happy as he was.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

If GRRM were to Chuck Cunningham Davos out of the story as well, I'd be fine with that. He's served his purpose. Or maybe he could just report back in Book 7 that Rickon was nowhere to be found, and that could be the end of it.

Write the best character out of the series? That's a terrible idea.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Write the best character out of the series? That's a terrible idea.

Don't worry, Daario isn't going anywhere.

But yeah, I'd be sad to see no more Davos. I'm really looking forward to him going to Skagos and Davos is one of a few point of view characters to never irritate me in some way.

 

[elrechazado]

I just can't figure out how Osha would think that bringing Rickon to Skagos is a good idea. Maybe she has family there, but even the travel itself was dangerous as hell. I suppose there will be new elements about the story of the Skagos people rebelling against the Starks in the past though.

But everybody knows that in the end Stannis will be saved by an army of cannibals riding unicorns lead by Rickon riding Shaggydog.



I think that if indeed there's Robb heir somewhere the situation will be played out subtly like a cameo or something. And Jeyne has no support whatsoever, except the Blackfish maybe. Stannis and Manderly are backing Rickon (or maybe Jon now that he is free from the Nightwatch), Littlefinger is behind Sansa. Maybe if the Riverlands rise again against the King they could try to crown Robb's heir as the new King in the North, but I doubt it.

Dangerous as opposed to what? Staying in the north where the boltons control just about everything and will kill and flay him on sight? Go south to where he'll be captured and killed by the enemies who killed his entire family?

What's the Reed stew theory?

The weirwood paste was actually the reeds. Description of it as blood, made bran somewhat sick, lots of imagery and foreshadowing of jojen knowing the time of his death and seeing it coming soon, etc.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Don't worry, Daario isn't going anywhere.

But yeah, I'd be sad to see no more Davos. I'm really looking forward to him going to Skagos and Davos is one of a few point of view characters to never irritate me in some way.

Agreed, I'm a big Davos fan. I just hope we don't get a lot of chapters of him sailing to Skagos. I feel like Martin has done that type of "POV journey" enough and I'd rather have a brief journey that gets him to Skagos asap. He presumably was already on a boat by the end of ADWD; dunno how much time passes between his conversation with Manderly and the events at Winterfell, but I can't help but think he must have set sail already (he was already in a port city afterall)

I'm still baffled how all the Stark claims will be handled. Robb's letter, Rickon, Sansa/LF could be quite confusing. I'd imagine whoever Robb named his heir would willingly step into a steward/protector position once Rickon returns (assuming that happens...), but what if LF convinces Sansa to continue with her own claim. If Shaggydog were to die, it might be hard to confirm Rickon's identity - and without that major proof, I'm sure Littlefinger could convince Sansa her claim is being stolen by an imposter.

 

[John Dunbar]

What I still don't get is how could the mute kid possibly know Osha took Rickon to Skagos. Follow them all the way from Winterfell to the nearest shore? And how did they get a boat with a direwolf, and how is it even possible to follow a direwolf unnoticed?

 

[Massa]

Agreed, I'm a big Davos fan. I just hope we don't get a lot of chapters of him sailing to Skagos. I feel like Martin has done that type of "POV journey" enough and I'd rather have a brief journey that gets him to Skagos asap. He presumably was already on a boat by the end of ADWD; dunno how much time passes between his conversation with Manderly and the events at Winterfell, but I can't help but think he must have set sail already (he was already in a port city afterall)

I'm still baffled how all the Stark claims will be handled. Robb's letter, Rickon, Sansa/LF could be quite confusing. I'd imagine whoever Robb named his heir would willingly step into a steward/protector position once Rickon returns (assuming that happens...), but what if LF convinces Sansa to continue with her own claim. If Shaggydog were to die, it might be hard to confirm Rickon's identity - and without that major proof, I'm sure Littlefinger could convince Sansa her claim is being stolen by an imposter.

Wait, didn't Robb name Jon Snow to be his heir? I remember him and Cat fighting about it.

 

[CassSept]

Wait, didn't Robb name Jon Snow to be his heir? I remember him and Cat fighting about it.

It's not confirmed though. He made the document and sent it just before the Red Wedding (and might had abode to his mother's wishes), so pretty much nobody knows who the actual heir is, save for Howland Reed (who also is the only person who knows Jon Snow's true parentage). We have to wait until he finally makes his appearance.

 

[Massa]

It's not confirmed though. He made the document and sent it just before the Red Wedding (and might had abode to his mother's wishes), so pretty much nobody knows who the actual heir is, save for Howland Reed (who also is the only person who knows Jon Snow's true parentage). We have to wait until he finally makes his appearance.

Ah, gotcha.

Anyway, I was just thinking about Cat, she does a lot of stupid things in the books. She basically got both Ned and Robb killed, one by arresting Tyrion without proof and the other by releasing Jamie right into Bolton's hands.

 

[Puddles]

Well, the moment I was waiting for arrived. In my inbox this morning:

I'm reading Storm of Swords.... I just got to the Frey Wedding.... JEREMY WHAT THE FUCK JUST HAPPENED?????????

 

[Tuck]

RE Bran: Yeah the book made it sound like Bran was never leaving that cave.

Re: Astapor

- The slave traders all thought she was a naive Westerosi who spoke no Valyrian and would not even be able to speak to the Unsullied without assistance.
- No one ever bought all the Unsullied at once.
- Everyone assumed she would immediately head off for Westeros. Her brother had been talking about this his entire life. No one had any reason to expect that she would have any interest in Slaver's Bay.
- They also assumed she would want to keep the slave trade going in case she needed more soldiers later.
- They were blinded by their greed for one of the only three dragons in the world.

I thought Astapor made perfect sense considering the above points.

This. I thought that entire scene was brilliant.

 

[Randdalf]

Agreed, I'm a big Davos fan. I just hope we don't get a lot of chapters of him sailing to Skagos. I feel like Martin has done that type of "POV journey" enough and I'd rather have a brief journey that gets him to Skagos asap. He presumably was already on a boat by the end of ADWD; dunno how much time passes between his conversation with Manderly and the events at Winterfell, but I can't help but think he must have set sail already (he was already in a port city afterall)

I don't think that's likely, given that Davos has been missing for virtually half a book (assuming the chapters are generally in chronological order). We'll probably seem him disembarking from the ship though.

 

[Fiftyeight]

Well, the moment I was waiting for arrived. In my inbox this morning:

I love the fact that I can't wait for all my friends to get to this part for this exact reason.

 

[Massa]

I just read that recently.

It isn't even about those being favorite characters, that was just fucking sick. And I knew the chapters at that part were Cat - Arya - Cat - Arya, so I went in with a pretty good feeling about that... heh.

That sick bastard.

 

[Mordeccai]

I love the fact that I can't wait for all my friends to get to this part for this exact reason.

I was so upset earlier this week, my friend made the biggest mistake and googled something on the series, he's in book 3 right now.

Apparently the show had him confused because he marries Jeyne (Talisa?) In the second season of the show but that doesn't happen in CoK. So he googled "Robbs wedding" and spoiled himself.

Motherfucker. This guy is my room mate and I was waiting for him to let forth a yell of agony once he read that part :[

 

[PhoenixDark]

It's not confirmed though. He made the document and sent it just before the Red Wedding (and might had abode to his mother's wishes), so pretty much nobody knows who the actual heir is, save for Howland Reed (who also is the only person who knows Jon Snow's true parentage). We have to wait until he finally makes his appearance.

Maege Mormont and a Glover know the contents if the letter as well. They were supposed to spread it throughout the north but instead are bunkered with Howland Reed. Makes me wonder what Alys Mormont knows, and why is she with Stannis. Maybe she's supposed to find out whether he can be trusted? Whoever the heir is will need Stannis' help

 

[suzu]

Sucks that some people go and ruin stuff for themselves by googling.

 

[Puddles]

I forget: did the Glovers ever get Deepwood Motte back?

 

[elrechazado]

I forget: did the Glovers ever get Deepwood Motte back?

yes, that's how asha ends up caught by stannis.

 

[SouthernDragon]

My friend couldn't wait for me to reach The Red Wedding.

What an asshole.

 

[Mordeccai]

My friend couldn't wait for me to reach The Red Wedding.

What an asshole.

I felt the exact same as your friend until he spoiled himself.

Can you say with a straight face that you *wouldn't* heavily anticipate seeing how a friend would react to that mess? Red Wedding destroyed me for a day!

 

[PhoenixDark]

I felt the exact same as your friend until he spoiled himself.

Can you say with a straight face that you *wouldn't* heavily anticipate seeing how a friend would react to that mess? Red Wedding destroyed me for a day!

True but a lot of fans go overboard by spoiling shit with hints or outright spoilers. Constantly asking someone "did the wedding happen yet" or saying "wait until the wedding!" is dumb. When my brothers started reading the series I didn't say shit to them lol. I'd make some minor conversational comments about stuff ("who do you think would make the best king thus far?"), but I never led them one way or another

Both my brothers came into my room after reading that chapter looking devastated lol. It was amazing, and sad

 

[ahoyhoy]

True but a lot of fans go overboard by spoiling shit with hints or outright spoilers. Constantly asking someone "did the wedding happen yet" or saying "wait until the wedding!" is dumb. When my brothers started reading the series I didn't say shit to them lol. I'd make some minor conversational comments about stuff ("who do you think would make the best king thus far?"), but I never led them one way or another

Both my brothers came into my room after reading that chapter looking devastated lol. It was amazing, and sad

I like to throw out random reactions whenever someone who's watching the show/behind in the books attempts to throw a speculative theory at me. I think it makes twists more fun for them.

 

[RatskyWatsky]

I love reading people's reactions to the Red Wedding. So funny lol.

;_;

 

[Supermanisdead]

I kinda hated Catelyn Stark so the Red Wedding was like "Damn...... lol, whatever. Let's get a Bran chapter now." But TV Robb is so amazing that I'm already sad.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

Because people around here can't keep their proverbial traps shut, I went into the books knowing that there was a huge event called the Red Wedding and that it would make me sad.

As I got closer to it, I assumed at various points that it was one of the following scenarios:

- Joffrey's wedding to Sansa
- Joffrey's wedding to Margaery
- Tyrion's wedding to Sansa

The reason being that the 'Red' in Red Wedding was a reference to Lannister red, and that the wedding would culminate in Sansa refusing to be "bedded" and being held down as either Joffrey willingly or Tyrion was forced to raped her.

I was steeling myself for unimaginable horror. The second scenario, especially, would be horrific for both Tyrion and Sansa, the former because it would be a ghastly repeat of what happened with Tysha (especially if it happened again at the behest of Tywin) and the latter because, well, rape.

What actually happened sucked, but came almost as a relief, especially when Joffrey died. It took the wind out of my sails, but all in all, it could have been worse.

 

[cj_iwakura]

In other 'scenes in the book that never clicked with me before' news, Stannis burning the leeches in SOS.

Oh.

 

[CygnusXS]

My reaction to speculative theory from my friends is to just shrug and say "could happen."

 

[John Dunbar]

Maege Mormont and a Glover know the contents if the letter as well. They were supposed to spread it throughout the north but instead are bunkered with Howland Reed. Makes me wonder what Alys Mormont knows, and why is she with Stannis. Maybe she's supposed to find out whether he can be trusted? Whoever the heir is will need Stannis' help

Was any of that actually mentioned in the books? I remember that Mormont and Glover took papers with fake orders on them with them, but I do not believe it was ever specified with whom the will is now.

Also, I don't think it was ever made clear that anyone actually knows the contents of the will, at least not at the time of writing it. Robb asked them all as his witnesses, not to share his decision. There was no implication that any of them actually read the will. It's common that witnesses of a will sign it, but do not actually know what it says. It was the same when Robert died: Ned knew what was in the will because he wrote it, but Renly and Barristan (I believe it was those two) signed/sealed it without knowing what it said.

 

[LegendofJoe]

I just started reading the Prince of Nothing series by R Scott Bakker yesterday. I've read through about pages so far and it's pretty good.

 

[desh]

In other 'scenes in the book that never clicked with me before' news, Stannis burning the leeches in SOS.

Oh.

Care to elaborate

 

[Lactose_Intolerant]

I just started reading the Prince of Nothing series by R Scott Bakker yesterday. I've read through about pages so far and it's pretty good.

I need to start reading the 2nd series of that. Its not as good as the 1st. I like the series, but the names of some of the people are stupid. its like the author kept trying to outdo himself.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Care to elaborate

I thought the same thing but then I realized, he's burning King's Blood.

 

[Tacitus_]

Care to elaborate

Stannis has three leeches full of his blood. He throws them one by one into the fire, while uttering a name with each throw. Joffrey Baratheon. Rob Stark. Balon Greyjoy.

 

[Mordeccai]

Because people around here can't keep their proverbial traps shut, I went into the books knowing that there was a huge event called the Red Wedding and that it would make me sad.

As I got closer to it, I assumed at various points that it was one of the following scenarios:

- Joffrey's wedding to Sansa
- Joffrey's wedding to Margaery
- Tyrion's wedding to Sansa

The reason being that the 'Red' in Red Wedding was a reference to Lannister red, and that the wedding would culminate in Sansa refusing to be "bedded" and being held down as either Joffrey willingly or Tyrion was forced to raped her.

I was steeling myself for unimaginable horror. The second scenario, especially, would be horrific for both Tyrion and Sansa, the former because it would be a ghastly repeat of what happened with Tysha (especially if it happened again at the behest of Tywin) and the latter because, well, rape.

What actually happened sucked, but came almost as a relief, especially when Joffrey died. It took the wind out of my sails, but all in all, it could have been worse.

Do you mean in this thread? I personally think that anyone interested in the books shouldn't be online snooping about for details on the series. Can't really place the blame on other people discussing the books (especially in this thread) when the person who clicked into here was you. That being said, even off of the internet, I have seen people spoil the Red Wedding, so I guess its not exactly hard to be spoiled on that moment.

God damn at the Stannis leeches thing. I remember him doing that too but never picked up on the kings blood thing. And all three of those died... shit, this just reinforces my love for Stannis.

My secret hope for TWOW is that his entire host will freeze (especially that annoying guy from the Iron Bank) and Stannis will just say fuck it, storm Winterfell by himself with Lightbringer, and destroy everything.

 

[Levi]

Stannis has three leeches full of his blood. He throws them one by one into the fire, while uttering a name with each throw. Joffrey Baratheon. Rob Stark. Balon Greyjoy.

Correlation is not causation. I'm inclined to believe Mel saw their deaths in the flames, and used that knowledge to make herself seem more powerful, not that she had any impact on their deaths.

 

[John Dunbar]

I think the whole leech thing was just a trick by Mel. There were 3 "pretenders" left, and she saw in her fires they were all about to die, so she made Stannis burn the leeches, making him think that had something to do with it.

edit: Beaten by Team Daario

 

[Blizzard]

I seem to recall the Iron Bank guy being awesome. I wish there were more awesome/smart people.

The Red Wedding was kind of sad, but I don't really understand who would like Robb or Catelyn. I hardly remember anything about Robb except for him being off somewhere fighting battles most of the time, and Catelyn was stupid/annoying (and then stupid/evil as Zombie Catelyn).

My main concern about the Red Wedding was that Arya was going to die too, but that didn't happen.

 

[Tacitus_]

Correlation is not causation. I'm inclined to believe Mel saw their deaths in the flames, and used that knowledge to make herself seem more powerful, not that she had any impact on their deaths.

Could be. Davos certainly believes she had nothing to do with their deaths.

 

[Mordeccai]

Correlation is not causation. I'm inclined to believe Mel saw their deaths in the flames, and used that knowledge to make herself seem more powerful, not that she had any impact on their deaths.

This is a good point too, especially when you consider Mel's 'glamors' and such. Illusion of power and what not.

I hope we get to see whether or not she actually has some form of magic, or if shes just really really good at trickery and images in TWOW.

 

[Freshmaker]

Correlation is not causation. I'm inclined to believe Mel saw their deaths in the flames, and used that knowledge to make herself seem more powerful, not that she had any impact on their deaths.

I got the impression that she just hired the faceless assassin to make her predictions come true.

 

[ultron87]

I got the impression that she just hired the faceless assassin to make her predictions come true.

I think the general theory is that the Faceless Man that killed Balon was hired by Euron.

From the vision told by the dwarf seer in SoS:

"a man without a face, waiting on a swaying bridge, on his shoulder perched a drowned crow with seaweed hanging from its wings"

 

[PoweredBySoy]

Please nerds, don't castrate me for being a poser and asking a question about the television series, but my wife and I are confused.

I thought Wildlings were those semi-demonic, blue-eyed night walkers that ate the heads off babies. But now, episode 6+ in season 2, Wildlings are hot chicks dressed in rabbit furs that like to spoon.

Could somebody explain this in a mostly non-spoilerish fashion? We're only on episode 7 now, so if we're just not supposed to know yet, then tell me to keep watching. But the series seemed to be pulling a switcharoo on is - and even more confusing is that the characters are going along with it. Like Snow, he saw an evil Wildling thing, so he should know what they are, but now he's calling this chick a Wildling too.

Thanks.

 

[ultron87]

Wildlings are normal people that live beyond the Wall. The Others are the supernatural creatures seen in the prologue.

Now run from this thread and never look back! Horrible spoilers of incredible events yet to come are contained herein!

 

[Lirlond]

Please nerds, don't castrate me for being a poser and asking a question about the television series, but my wife and I are confused.

I thought Wildlings were those semi-demonic, blue-eyed night walkers that ate the heads off babies. But now, episode 6+ in season 2, Wildlings are hot chicks dressed in rabbit furs that like to spoon.

Could somebody explain this in a mostly non-spoilerish fashion? We're only on episode 7 now, so if we're just not supposed to know yet, then tell me to keep watching. But the series seemed to be pulling a switcharoo on is - and even more confusing is that the characters are going along with it. Like Snow, he saw an evil Wildling thing, so he should know what they are, but now he's calling this chick a Wildling too.

Thanks.

Wildling are normal dudes who live beyond the wall, also known as the Free Folk.

Wights are zombies.

Others are Ice demons.

 

[PoweredBySoy]

Wildlings are normal people that live beyond the Wall. The Others are the supernatural creatures seen in the prologue.

Now run from this thread and never look back! Horrible spoilers of incredible events yet to come are contained herein!

Okay!! THANK YOU, SIRS!!

 

[Frost_Ace]

Please nerds, don't castrate me for being a poser and asking a question about the television series, but my wife and I are confused.

I thought Wildlings were those semi-demonic, blue-eyed night walkers that ate the heads off babies. But now, episode 6+ in season 2, Wildlings are hot chicks dressed in rabbit furs that like to spoon.

Could somebody explain this in a mostly non-spoilerish fashion? We're only on episode 7 now, so if we're just not supposed to know yet, then tell me to keep watching. But the series seemed to be pulling a switcharoo on is - and even more confusing is that the characters are going along with it. Like Snow, he saw an evil Wildling thing, so he should know what they are, but now he's calling this chick a Wildling too.

Thanks.

Wildlings are the men that live beyond the wall.

The white walkers are the blue-eyed entities.

 

[NoTacos]

just finished season 2 a couple days ago. That White Walker at the end >>>>

btw, how closely does the tv series follow the books. i may start reading.

 

[Tacitus_]

I like how the Red Wedding and Melisandres magic was discussed just a couple of posts before and then someone bursts in, claims to have only watched the TV series and asking for clarification on it.
Talk about dodging a minefield.

just finished season 2 a couple days ago. That White Walker at the end >>>>

btw, how closely does the tv series follow the books. i may start reading.

Heh. Just as I posted too. Seriously, this is the unmarked spoiler thread for the whole series. As for your question, S1 was almost 1:1 with the book, but S2 wasn't. The broad strokes are there, but some storylines were changed a lot.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

just finished season 2 a couple days ago. That White Walker at the end >>>>

btw, how closely does the tv series follow the books. i may start reading.

um dude you are so in the wrong thread