shadowsdarknes
Member
I think he's simply dead. His return is wishful thinking. Its a theory I do not subscribe to.
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A Song of Ice and Fire -- **Unmarked Spoilers For All Books including ADWD**
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I think he's simply dead. His return is wishful thinking. Its a theory I do not subscribe to.
AFFC is awesome.
Jaime got to his feet. “Cersei, enough.”
Her nostrils flared. “Ser? Why are you here? You swore to stand vigil over Father until the wake was done, as I recall.”
“It is done. Go look at him.”
“No. Seven days and seven nights, you said. Surely the Lord Commander remembers how to count to seven. Take the number of your fingers, then add two.”
If the people he went off with didn't come back I'd agree with that, but the fact they became wigths and there was no sign of Benjen is too suspicious if you ask me. There's also the fact that he was supposed to go through Craster's but didn't.
Jaime got to his feet. “Cersei, enough.”
Her nostrils flared. “Ser? Why are you here? You swore to stand vigil over Father until the wake was done, as I recall.”
“It is done. Go look at him.”
“No. Seven days and seven nights, you said. Surely the Lord Commander remembers how to count to seven. Take the number of your fingers, then add two.”
If the people he went off with didn't come back I'd agree with that, but the fact they became wigths and there was no sign of Benjen is too suspicious if you ask me. There's also the fact that he was supposed to go through Craster's but didn't.
shadowsdarknes
Member
Its been over three years since the bodies returned to Castle Black. I believe his Stark blood made him a sacrificial candidate to the Others if anything. His *possible* reemergence delves too deeply into lame fantasy tropes for my liking.
Leaf was born "in the time of the dragon". Which would be between 300 years ago (when Aegon first entered Westeros) and 150 years ago (when the last dragon in Westeros died). She walked the "world of man" for 200 years, which seemed like a significant amount of time to her. So she's not that old, but your point stands, 2 years is very little time to her.
Still not convinced CH is the NK though
Leaf said the wights/Others killed CH, which wouldn't be the case if he was the NK. 8000 years is also an absurd amount of time.My best guess (besides Benjen), he is someone significant Martin will reveal in the next book. Or maybe a Dunk & Egg tale, he's an ally of Bloodraven afterall.
Leaf was born "in the time of the dragon". Which would be between 300 years ago (when Aegon first entered Westeros) and 150 years ago (when the last dragon in Westeros died). She walked the "world of man" for 200 years, which seemed like a significant amount of time to her. So she's not that old, but your point stands, 2 years is very little time to her.
Still not convinced CH is the NK though
My best guess (besides Benjen), he is someone significant Martin will reveal in the next book. Or maybe a Dunk & Egg tale, he's an ally of Bloodraven afterall.
It's been hinted by Sam in AFFC that the history of Westeros is actually much shorter than the >8000 years that legend says. Due to the first men recording history through runes, not to mention that there are only records of around 500 lord commanders at the Wall, we don't really have a proper idea on how much time has really passed since the Others first came.
I think I remember seeing a GRRM quote somewhere about how Benjen had "skills" that served him well beyond the wall. It sounded like a hint to me. I doubt he'd be this coy about Benjen if he were really just dead, especially since ASOS seemed to go out of its way to tie up any loose end that weren't going to have relevance to the later books. I usually read the books through a pretty realist lens, and assume that dead is dead but I think Benjen is out there somewhere, and isn't Coldhands.
elrechazado
Banned
Nope, they leeched edric and used his "king's blood"
PhoenixDark
Banned
Martin has said many times that no body=no death most of the time. If Benjen was dead we'd know by now imo...
I do agree that him managing to survive well beyond the Wall for 2-3 years could open the series up to some lame stuff. But then again given the increase in magic as the story progresses, perhaps we might as well get ready....
I'll be fine with Benjen being in Hardholme, or captured by Wildlings - or anything that makes sense. What I don't want is Bran having a vision of Benjen hiding in a pile of snow, scouting the Others's secret castle in the Lands of Always Winter
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?610007-Mod-A-Game-of-Thrones
Version 0.2 of the Crusader Kings II Game of Thrones mod is out. Now you can play as Wildlings and become King Beyond the Wall.
Version 0.2 of the Crusader Kings II Game of Thrones mod is out. Now you can play as Wildlings and become King Beyond the Wall.
Basileus777
Member
When did Martin ever say this? It's true that he loves his fake deaths, but I've never seen him openly acknowledge it like that.
Ser Barristan FTW! Hopefully he gets around to chopping that blue haired bastards head off.Favorite minor characters?
I have to admit a fondness for Genna Lannister, and I quite enjoy the sand-snakes. Gendry and Mya Stone are two I'm very curious to see what role, if any, they'll have in the future.
Edit: Can't forget Daario. He got that swag.
SouthernDragon
Member
Barristan is, like, worth a million Daarios.
timetokill
Banned
The Brotherhood Without Banners. Especially Thoros... and I really wish Beric was still around. Tom o' Sevens is good too. Very eager to see what Tom does in Riverrun.
And yea, the Martells who I guess are practically "minor" considering their overall chapter count... the Sands, especially. Love those parts of the books, and I hope there's more from them.
shadowsdarknes
Member
Yoren.
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
Yoren.
PhoenixDark
Banned
He said it a few days ago during a Seattle reading
http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/69778-seattle-reading-any-details/#entry3355377
TWoW spoilers in this link.
Hard to make a split between majors and minors. Favorite non-POVs are Stannis, Oberyn, Mance, Manderly, and Beric, but Stannis especially hardly qualifies as minor. I would also include Asha on the list if it weren't for her POV chapters.
Also, spotted another Manderly/Doran parellel from the conversation the other day. Both deliver their speeches to an ally they've just release from captivity after imprisoning them to keep up appearances.
Also, spotted another Manderly/Doran parellel from the conversation the other day. Both deliver their speeches to an ally they've just release from captivity after imprisoning them to keep up appearances.
Omfg. No way the connections between those two isn't deliberate. There are just so many.
Lets just hope Manderly's trump card doesn't get roasted. Or eaten by a wolf.
Finn of Ooo
Member
For some reason I think arya is gonna have to take out jaqen eventually.
Anything is possible however I don't see it happening or at least I hope it doesn't. A lot would have to happen.
Well, Quentyn's parallel is Davos, not Bran, so... he's sure to be gored by a unicorn while trying to prove himself to Bran and Osha.
Finn of Ooo
Member
True, I just want to know why he's in Oldtown. I really want to know what the deal is with the maesters in general.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
The conspiracy storyline with the maesters that Feast sets up (and we get another hint at in Dance with Lady Dustin's comments to Theon) is really interesting to me. I'm really looking forward to Sam's chapters in Winds so we can see a lot more of that stuff.
Well, Quentyn's parallel is Davos, not Bran, so... he's sure to be gored by a unicorn while trying to prove himself to Bran and Osha.
Really Davos is filling both the roles of both Arianne and Quentyn, as both captive and questant, so hopefully he'll get to live as Arianne-Davos and not die as Quentyn-Davos. Or Rickon will have just gone bat-shit and will feed him to Shaggydog. Yeah, that's probably more likely.
Most common theory is the Jaqen is after the Maester's secret copy of a book on how the dragons died that they keep locked away. Perhaps the Faceless Men, because of their origins resisting Valyria, are radically anti-dragon and are looking for a way to stop Dany?
Refresh me on Lady Dustin's comments. I remember that chapter as being mostly a waste of time with Lady Dustin just complaining about how much she hated Eddard.
SouthernDragon
Member
He's looking for the book The Death of Dragons, hidden by the maesters in their library.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
She talked about how Rickard Stark had "southron ambitions" (Brandon/Cat and Lyanna/Robert being main factors into this), which ties into the other stuff we hear about how some of the lords may have been plotting to overthrow Aerys leading up to Harrnehall, and then she mentions that the idea originated from his Maester.
I've been waiting for this to happen for 4 and 1/2 books. IT BETTER HAPPEN SOON GEORGE!!!
She claims that while Maester's drop their surname, they only pretend to give their familial loyalties. She points out they control all communication and may not be sending the ravens with unaltered messages. She hints that the Citadel has a hidden agenda.
Found a quote:
"The grey rats read and write our letters, even for such lords as cannot read themselves, and who can say for a certainty that they are not twisting the words for their own ends?"
Ah, ok. I remember that line, I just always took it as nothing more than Rickard being tired of the North's isolation and its position as the backwards cousin of the rest of the Kingdoms, and he wanted more influence over the Kingdoms as a whole, on par with the southron nations. I never made the connection with the plot to overthrow Aerys. I was always under the impression that Rhaegar held the central role in that plot, and not any of the other lords like Rickard.
This article basically put the theory in the spotlight:
http://towerofthehand.com/blog/2012/01/05-southron-ambitions/index.html
Very interesting take on Aerys's madness and how much of it could have been stirred from legitimate threats.
Interesting theory. Makes sense, if you believe that Rhaegar was plotting to overthrow his father, then it's likely that the lords in attendance at the Harrenhal tourney were also in on it.
I had assumed that that meant that the maester had some connection to House Tully, and that was why he proposed the marriage. It does also fit with the maesters having a broad, anti-Targaryen policy though.
PhoenixDark
Banned
One of the most interesting "no body=alive?" mysteries for me is Raynald Westerling. He took a couple arrows during his escape, including one to the gut, and flung himself into a rushing river. His body was never found...
I dunno what role he could play if still alive though.
I dunno what role he could play if still alive though.
A question to the seasoned readers....
Am i the only one who doesn't understand why Tywin gets such a huge nod for making his family the most powerful one in the realm?
When you look at the cards in his hands, to me, if he hadn't been top three at any given time, he was a dunce who didn't deserve his title.
His castle sits on working goldmines. And he's lord of the third largest city in the realm.
To me, its not that impressive.
Am i the only one who doesn't understand why Tywin gets such a huge nod for making his family the most powerful one in the realm?
When you look at the cards in his hands, to me, if he hadn't been top three at any given time, he was a dunce who didn't deserve his title.
His castle sits on working goldmines. And he's lord of the third largest city in the realm.
To me, its not that impressive.
John Dunbar
correct about everything
I like the series very much, but these are the kind of things that fall in the "just accept it" category. I don't remember at any point feeling that Martin has portrayed any actual ruling very well, especially not good ruling.
A good, although not a highly prominent, example of this is Tyrion's stint running the drains of Casterly Rock. He apparently did a brilliant job, but no details were given what he actually did. Another example is Littlefinger. He's a wizard with money, we're told many times, but if I had to give a single example of this wizardry, apparently he has borrowed a lot of money? I don't know anything else he has actually done. Tywin's just the same. As the above poster said, he used his endless resources to restore his family to its former glory. He did this by, uh, being ruthless?
Basically, the characters that are actually good at politics are good because we're told they are.
Tangential, but what are the odds Tyrion will at some point lead an attack on Casterly Rock through the drains? Quite high, I'd say.
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