Jack Scofield
Member
Not really. It's just supposed to signify how Sansa is now Alayne.
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A Song of Ice and Fire -- **Unmarked Spoilers For All Books including ADWD**
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Not really. It's just supposed to signify how Sansa is now Alayne.
The chapter naming standards start going all over the place in book 4. Characters taking on other identities and other names seems to be a bit of a theme of the Feast/Dance megabook. I wouldn't read anything too much into it. It just means that she's living as Alayne right now and that she's gotten more comfortable thinking of herself as Alayne than as Sansa at the moment.
You can't write good novel in your 70s. Look at Ridey Scott.
Martin played around a lot with naming the chapters. I think they're meant so signify the theme of the chapter. I just leafed through and by the end only 1 of 8 chapters was named directly after the POV character.
Basileus777
Member
He started that with guest POV characters in AFFC, and then just started to expand everywhere because he liked that chapter naming convention. I think he overused it too much and it's lost whatever impact it once had.
I wouldn't mind the naming convention at all if the entire series had been done that way. It's the sudden shift from book 3 to book 4 that calls attention to it and makes it feel like there should be more meaning to it than there really is.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
Yeah, but the moment when you turn the page in Dance and see 'Theon' written at the top of the page as opposed to 'Reek' or 'The Turncloak' or all of those other things, and what that signifies, is such a great moment, and it completely justifies the whole thing.
What if they named the chapters 'Theon Greyjoy' instead of 'Reek?'
There are two different things going on with the chapter titles.
In one group, you have the characters who have multiple personality disorder or are changing their actual internal identity (Theon/Reek, Arya/Cat of the Canals).
In the other, you have the names that are given to add description and flavor, like Arys Oakheart being introduced as The Soiled Knight, or whatever it was.
The former serve a significant narrative purpose, but the latter just seem like window dressing.
In one group, you have the characters who have multiple personality disorder or are changing their actual internal identity (Theon/Reek, Arya/Cat of the Canals).
In the other, you have the names that are given to add description and flavor, like Arys Oakheart being introduced as The Soiled Knight, or whatever it was.
The former serve a significant narrative purpose, but the latter just seem like window dressing.
BertramCooper
Banned
I got really annoyed when GRRM started using nicknames for the chapter titles. I found it needlessly confusing.
Sansa/Alayne and Theon/Reek, however, I was cool with. If they've adopted a new identity, I think it's appropriate to adopt their new names for the chapter titles.
Sansa/Alayne and Theon/Reek, however, I was cool with. If they've adopted a new identity, I think it's appropriate to adopt their new names for the chapter titles.
The knot will be solved once Dany realizes that she is the conquer, not the ruler. I think that is how its going to end and how she gets back to Westeros.
LegendofJoe
Member
I hope the new chapter will be from sansa's pov. Her story arc was starting to get really interesting in Feast, and she wasn't one of the extra inclusions in Dance so it's been about 8 years since we've had an update on her.
Lol Grrm troll, lol
Lol Grrm troll, lol
cubicle47b
Member
Yes, the knot is already solved. It has nothing to do with Dany herself.
I'm thinking summer 2014, if only because he doesn't have the problems he did with the previous ones. The first three books were released over a period of 4 years, so it's not a stretch to assume he could write TWOW in 3 if everything goes smoothly.
Basileus777
Member
He didn't start writing until 2012, so that date would require him to write it in less than 2.5 years. It's not happening.
Didn't he move a substantial amount from ADWD? He must be sitting on quite the amount of material at the moment.
LegendofJoe
Member
If Martin wants to keep pace ahead of the show he has to have Winds of Winter out by sometime next year.
Basileus777
Member
A few chapters, which is not really that much considering the book will likely need to be another 400k word doorstopper. It's best not to have unrealistic expectations, this book coming out in 2014 would be a shocklng twist.
He said he had a ton of material for ADWD after AFFC was released in 2005. I wouldn't hold my breath for anything earlier than 2015.
PhoenixDark
Banned
We know much of the 400 pages were originally in ADWD, such as the Winterfell and Mereen battles. He also removed a Sansa chapter
Latest update from Martin had him at 400 manuscript pages; 200 of which are finished and do not need revision.
For comparison, Dance was over 1400 manuscript pages, so be prepared to wait. And perhaps even take up writing as a personal hobby in the meantime.
When was this last update? Could've sworn that this was an old estimate?
That moment was so good when I saw it, I'm probably in the minority but I'd really like Theon to go on and redeem himself
Why would you be in a minority?
For the GURM 200 pages is about 6 months of work.
Over a year of work in this case, it seems.
sigh.
The TV show will catch up with the books before this one is released for sure. Wonder what will happen then.
It will turn into a DBZ episode where the characters spend 75% of the episode to power up so they can wait for the Manga.
Saint Gregory
Member
If they follow the DBZ method Dany will spend an entire season flying Drogon back to Westeros while talking to herself and doing pushups and situps on his back.
Meanwhile Jon and Tyrion will team up and somehow waste all of their time searching for the pieces of the Horn of Winter on the wrong continent.
Sorry, I didn't mean minority for wanting him to redeem himself, meant in the minority in that I actually like Theon. I know a lot of people didn't like him before what happened with Winterfell and hated him afterward.
PhoenixDark
Banned
2012 was arguably the biggest year of his career, and perhaps the most busy. He barely spent any time at home consistently due to all the awards, tours, cons, etc; which is understandable because late 2011 saw the release of ADWD and 2012 was basically a giant victory lap (plus the ratings success of GoT season 2). Just a casual glimpse at his 2013 calendar shows less activity, and he has already turned down many invitations
I'm not saying the book will be done this year, far from it. But IMO 2013 will be the real "beginning" of the writing process of TWOW. 2012 was mainly him moving around already written chapters and adding some new stuff.
badcrumble
Member
I dunno about that. 2014 will be part two of SoS; the whole AFFC/ADWD complex will take either two or three seasons. That puts us at having the existing books all shown by summer 2016/2017. Assume they need to shoot during the summer and fall, and that they need to write the new season during winter and spring, and basically if the new book comes out by fall 2015 there'll be a healthy lead time for any scenario.
Also don't forget that the HBO writers will likely get every version of his manuscript and already have access to plot outlines.
I think he's done more than we think, heck, he's managed to write an entire ASOIAF novella full of fake history in that time period.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Very good point. It's pretty massive according to Elio. I'd imagine that type of world building is easier to write for him, especially since he's working alongside two people who know the world's details better than he does.
Basileus777
Member
It's easier to write world building where he doesn't have to deal with 1000 plot threads and structural issues.
Steelyuhas
Member
Based on his plan for a 2014 release, I think his plan is to write the core chunk of the book this year, with refinements, revisions, etc next year hopefully in time to release the book sometime next year.
HAHAHAHAHAHA
BFIB
Member
All 3 of those plotlines do pick up. They just take a little longer to get going, especially Arya's.
Nope
Steelyuhas
Member
Those are his words, not mine.
I don't really expect to happen, but that's what he has said.
After he finishes two sidebooks, five world tours, writing a script for the TV show and updating his blog of course.
Hey, that's still like 1/4 of a book before football starts again.
Basileus777
Member
And then he'll revise and rewrite those words every other day. And once a month, he'll scrap an entire chapter and start it over.
I guess to serve their god (The Many-Faced God, aka Death) by killing people.
I was under the impression that they were just a guild of (very expensive and highly trained) assassins. Right?
I wouldn't say just a guild of assassins. Like you said, they serve a god of Death and they take as payment whatever would be the most expensive for the client, which differs wildly from client to client.
Then there's their history and how they hate the Valyrians. There's something going on and it's speculated that they're in the possession of a dragons egg that they received from Euron. Then there's that one member who's infiltrating the Maesters and whether he's there on his own business or for the guilds agenda.
PhoenixDark
Banned
I remember one of the main theories being that he stole a book detailing how to kill dragons
Yeah, or at least planning to. He hasn't been in the Citadel for that long.
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