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[Future PhaZe]

Most ( me included ) believe that he is a Blackfyre, or the descendant of one on the female line, which seems to fit thematically. Still, black or red, a dragon is still a dragon, no?

hmm thanks, its a solid theory

 

[Paganmoon]

Most ( me included ) believe that he is a Blackfyre, or the descendant of one on the female line, which seems to fit thematically. Still, black or red, a dragon is still a dragon, no?

"in a coat of gold, or a coat of red, a lion still has claws."

A dragon is not a dragon, as a lion is not a lion.

Spoiler

Nothing is nothing.

[edit]Hell, just noticed your name, sorta fitting too

 

[cashman]

I'm of the belief that Aegon definitely has some Targ blood, but whether it's through Rhaegar or a Blackfyre I haven't really done a re-read to analyze it further.

 

[Trojita]

Some people think he is actually Illyrio's son.

 

[Reyne]

"in a coat of gold, or a coat of red, a lion still has claws."

A dragon is not a dragon, as a lion is not a lion.

Spoiler

Nothing is nothing.

[edit]Hell, just noticed your name, sorta fitting too

The rains still weep o'er my halls

Some people think he is actually Illyrio's son.

Yeah, and often in combination with being a Blackfyre descendant, through his mother. Serra did have the traits of a Valyrian so there is that, though its also possible she may just have been a random Lyseni.

 

[Wh0 N0se]

With all the theories going around on Aegon, I'd be more inclined to have him as the real deal and die but not let the readers know either way whether he was real or fake.

That would be a more interesting way to do it for me, having him be a Blackfyre just seems underwhelming if it's true, probably because people have guessed it if he is a Blackfyre and it wouldn't seem like a surprise if he was one.

 

[Jayof9s]

That would be a more interesting way to do it for me, having him be a Blackfyre just seems underwhelming if it's true, probably because people have guessed it if he is a Blackfyre and it wouldn't seem like a surprise if he was one.

The whole Blackfyre sub-plot becomes pretty much pointless if Aegon isn't one. And after my reread I realized that most of the seemingly random stories/events that GRRM throws into the books aren't so random.

To me, it's fun to see which theories pan out and which don't. I think it's a safe bet that Jon's parentage and Aegon being a Blackfyre will turn out to be the 'expected' theories. While it might make the reveals a bit less shocking, I don't see why that would decrease my enjoyment of the series.

 

[Basileus777]

The Blackfyres are from spin-off novellas, they don't need a purpose in the main series. GRRM throws a ton of information in these novels that has no purpose other than world building or because he likes thinking up stories about royals.

 

[PhoenixDark]

The Blackfyres are from spin-off novellas, they don't need a purpose in the main series. GRRM throws a ton of information in these novels that has no purpose other than world building or because he likes thinking up stories about royals.

The Blackfyres are mentioned multiple times in the novels, not just the novellas. Aegon IV having bastards that led to a civil war is mentioned in the first book iirc. The increase in mentions in ADWD only seems to add further weight to Aegon being a Blackfyre.

 

[Basileus777]

The Blackfyres are mentioned multiple times in the novels, not just the novellas. Aegon IV having bastards that led to a civil war is mentioned in the first book iirc. The increase in mentions in ADWD only seems to add further weight to Aegon being a Blackfyre.

I'm not arguing that Aegon isn't a Blackfyre, just against the idea that he needs to be or a plot would be left unresolved. There's plenty of actual evidence for the theory without reaching for that, especially considering how heavy GRRM gets in ADWD with random dumps of lore and world building.

Aegon IV having bastards that led to a civil war is mentioned in the first book iirc.

I think this was Cat in ASOS. But the Blackfyres weren't given much detail until Dunk and Egg.

 

[Jayof9s]

I'm not arguing that Aegon isn't a Blackfyre, just against the idea that he needs to be or a plot would be left unresolved. There's plenty of actual evidence for the theory without reaching for that, especially considering how heavy GRRM gets in ADWD with random dumps of lore and world building.

My point was entirely that his "random dumps of lore and world building" are rarely random. They often just take a long time before they become recognizable. The amount of time he spent covering the Blackfyres in the books almost ensures that it will become a large plot point. It doesn't have to be Aegon but it won't just fizzle out into nothing.

Even his 'random' characters that get introduced and seem to add nothing often either keep returning multiple times and/or become fairly important at some point down the road (i.e. the Manderlys came up fairly regularly in the earlier books but never did anything other than take up a lot of space until ADWD). Almost all of his random lore and world building leads to something down the road, even if just as foreshadowing.

 

[butzopower]

Wasn't Bloodraven Master of Whispers during the Blackfyre rebellion? I thought maybe all the Blackfyre lore related to him.

 

[Cornballer]

- Via WiCnet: George R.R. Martin’s Editor, Anne Groell, answers fan questions in Live Q&A, hopes to have TWOW “reasonably soon”

When will TWOW be released?
For TWOW, when I have a date, you will have a date. I’m now on Twitter, Del Rey Spectra has a number of social media platforms, and I promise you we will put the word out as soon as we know. All I can say is that George is hard at work, and we hope to have it reasonably soon. I currently have 168 pages that he submitted back in Feb 2013 in order to receive a contracted payment, but I know more exists, because he keeps talking about chapter he hasn’t yet sent me. In fact, when we wanted to put an exclusive excerpt on the A WORLD OF ICE AND FIRE app—a magnificent thing which you all should buy and use!—he suggested the second Tyrion chapter, which I then had to remind him was not in the sample I had.

Do you think it will take GRRM more then 7 books to finish ASOIAF?
I begin to wonder—though 7 is what we currently have under contract. I remember when he called me, years and years back, to confess that his little trilogy was…well…no longer a trilogy. He predicted four books. I said Seven Books for Seven Kingdoms. Then he said five books. I said Seven Books for Seven Kingdoms. Then he went to six. I said… Well, you get it. Finally, we were on the same page. Seven Books for Seven Kingdoms. Good. Only, as I recently learned while editing THE WORLD OF ICE AND FIRE (another awesome thing you must buy when it comes out!), there are really technically eight kingdoms, all having to do with who has annexed what when Aegon the Conqueror landed in Westeros. So, maybe eight books for Seven Kingdoms would be okay. Also, he has promised me that, when he finally wraps this great beast, I can publish the five page letter outlining the bare bones of the “trilogy.”

We know that the producers of the TV show Game of Thrones know in broad strokes the ending of the main character arcs of A Song of Ice and Fire. Without giving anything away, do you know the ending, too?
No. George is a very secretive fellow, and guards his secrets well. I do know a few things from AWOW, but mainly because we had to shorten a few elements in the book as it was already getting too long, and he had to reveal a few secrets so I could help him redirect parts of the plot a bit. I do know the endpoint of Bran’s story line—and Daniel Abraham, who has been adapting the graphic novel of AGOT for me, knows where Tyrion ends up. (I am jealous of that!) But much in the way all of you have been keeping secrets from show watchers who have not yet read the books (and I continue to be impressed by how secret you all kept the Red Wedding), I also will never tell what I know. George has somehow managed to swear us all to this amazing conspiracy of silence, which I admire and appreciate and fully participate in! I had a very amusing lunch with Daniel in which we very pointedly did not tell each other what the other one knew. In short, like you, I Keep George’s Secrets.

From what you’ve read about The Winds of Winter so far, and, without spoiling anything, how good do you think the book is compared to the others in the series?
It’s amazing. In fact, when I first read the partial back in 2013, I immediately wrote George an impassioned plea to please not let the show get out ahead of him. I can’t predict what will happen from here, but I definitely want his version to be my first version. And I think a lot of you want that, too. His vision started this; I very much want his vision to end it, too.

More via the link.

 

[El Daniel]

Admittedly, I did try to get him to take a few “Words are wind” out of ADWD, but he got stubborn again.

Classic Martin

 

[Brakke]

- Via WiCnet: George R.R. Martin’s Editor, Anne Groell, answers fan questions in Live Q&A, hopes to have TWOW “reasonably soon”

Have you ever tried convincing George into using a laptop for writing and writing on the road instead of only writing on his computer at home?

Good gracious, yes! Multiple times. He is one stubborn man, and very set in his ways, though.

God damn you, George, listen to the nice lady.

 

[Dresden]

With all the assistants he has, he should just dictate his novel to them as he watches NFL games or something. Get them to type it up, then go nuts with the editing.

 

[Paganmoon]

With all the assistants he has, he should just dictate his novel to them as he watches NFL games or something. Get them to type it up, then go nuts with the editing.

His assistants are writing more books faster than he is... Ty Franck, former assistant to GRRM published 3 books in 3 years, while still GRRM's assistant, and is now writing fulltime, with 2 books out this year already... and working on a TV show...

 

[jett]

The overall plot has been moving at such a slow pace I definitely don't expect the whole thing to be finished in seven books.

 

[Brakke]

The overall plot has been moving at such a slow pace I definitely don't expect the whole thing to be finished in seven books.

Once Mance/Euron/Rhaegar/Daario teaches Dany how to teleport the invasion of Westeros should move along pretty quickly.

 

[Victory Red]

I don't know how long it takes to get a book printed and shipped after its finished.... but I bet its at least 6 months.

I'm getting the vibe from that lady that this shit isn't as close to done as we think it is.


I think this will go down as one of the great failures in fiction history.

This great author with a rabid fan base is going to let his life's work get ruined because he won't type on a COMPUTER away from his home. Next HBO season will start ruining everything book readers have been waiting YEARS for, HBO will do what they want with the series and THAT will be how the series is remembered. However George decides to end it, with his own twists and side plots, will be little known.

What if the Harry Potter movies came out before the last books and the writers/directors had the liberty to "fill in the gaps" themselves. The series wouldn't be the masterpiece that it is today. Thats whats going to happen here.

Good job gurm. smh

 

[Basileus777]

When will TWOW be released?
For TWOW, when I have a date, you will have a date. I’m now on Twitter, Del Rey Spectra has a number of social media platforms, and I promise you we will put the word out as soon as we know. All I can say is that George is hard at work, and we hope to have it reasonably soon. I currently have 168 pages that he submitted back in Feb 2013 in order to receive a contracted payment, but I know more exists, because he keeps talking about chapter he hasn’t yet sent me. In fact, when we wanted to put an exclusive excerpt on the A WORLD OF ICE AND FIRE app—a magnificent thing which you all should buy and use!—he suggested the second Tyrion chapter, which I then had to remind him was not in the sample I had.

I can't say this is exactly promising news. She hasn't received anything since that initial batch of chapters? That's quite different from how GRRM did things with Dance. If she hadn't thrown in that line about expecting it reasonably soon, this would make me think the book is still years away.

And there's this:

Why did you believe it was a wise decision to cut the three major battles from ADWD?
Answer from: Anne G.
Yes, the battles. Structurally, it would have been nice to have them. But there were two severe and real limitations. First, there are only so many pages you can actually physically bind between covers, and less than a handful of binderies out there who are actually capable of handling the larger books. When we wrapped ADWD—minus the battles—it was 1513 pages in manuscript. To include the battles… Well, we’d physically not have been able to bind it. We would have had to split it into two books, which would have felt even less satisfying. And it would probably still not be published yet, as he would STILL be writing.

He'd still be writing, so he's not done with the battles that were supposed to be in ADWD.

God damn you, George, listen to the nice lady.

Famous authors don't have to listen to their editors. It's why placing the blame for ADWD's messes on her was always misplaced.

The overall plot has been moving at such a slow pace I definitely don't expect the whole thing to be finished in seven books.

It won't be done in 7 if he writes like he did in the last two books. It might take 9 at that pace.

 

[PhoenixDark]

I think you're really misreading that. It's definitely true that Martin hasn't handed over much which is odd; maybe he wants to hold onto as many secrets as possible as she said, who knows. She received 168 pages in Feb 2013 for instance. In April 2013 Martin told reporters that he was a quarter done with the book, which would be 400 pages. Ultimately I really don't think it matters whether he's sending her stuff, if he's making progress. Regardless I'm going to assume he has a lot more than a quarter done more than a year later, especially considering he just had nearly seven months without a major out of state event or con.

She didn't say he's still writing the battles. The battles were removed from the book, meaning they were complete. Here's what she said in 2011:

SS: One last question. I understand that George wrote more material than could physically fit in A DANCE WITH DRAGONS. Some of it will likely make its way to the next novel, THE WINDS OF WINTER. As his editor, how much say did you have in what stayed and what had to be pushed into the next book?

AG: Well… Probably more say that he would have liked…though many of the choices were his as well. Finishing this book where he absolutely wanted to end it would have taken probably another year and more pages than could be realistically bound between two covers. And so much great stuff had happened already that no one, I felt, could be unsatisfied by the developments. So he voluntarily pulled one big sequence out of the book. I lobbied for another…and it came out, too. People may hold me to blame for this, but I still think it was the right choice. The book is so big and complex and rich and wonderful that adding these two sequences would not have made it any better than it already its.

But based on the few things I know that are coming–and on one sneaky bit of information that he fed me early–I simply can’t wait to read WINDS OF WINTER. So, get cracking, George! It’ll be a doozy, I know.

http://sf-fantasy.suvudu.com/2011/07/dance-interview-with-george-r-r-martin-editor-anne-groell.html

He'd still be writing because the rest of the book - ie everything that happens after the battles - would need to be written. Which is what he's doing right now.

The two battles were done; the third (Storm's End) wasn't, and Martin decided just a few months ago to actually include a glimpse of it.

What I took from the Q&A:

1) She says Martin will be done "reasonably soon," which ties in with his publisher saying 2015 is the goal.

2) She said Tyrion II was not in the chapters that she received last February. TWOW

Spoiler

Tyrion II occurs during the battle, although you don't see the fighting due to fog of war and smoke. Does this mean the battle is predominantly going to be told through the eyes of Baristan and Victarion? I'd prefer that, actually.

Also, does this mean that the only Tyrion chapter in the 168 pages she received was his first one? If we don't include the chapters that show the actual battle (Baristan II and technically Tyrion II), that would include: Tyrion I, Baristan I, Victarion I, Theon I, Arianne I, Arianne II, Mercy I. That's about what, 80-90 pages? Really makes me wonder what other chapters she has. Sansa's first chapter seems like a good guess, as it was removed from ADWD. Same with the Damphair's first chapter.

edit: She also says TWOW is getting too long, which suggests she has seen more than 168 pages

No. George is a very secretive fellow, and guards his secrets well. I do know a few things from AWOW, but mainly because we had to shorten a few elements in the book as it was already getting too long, and he had to reveal a few secrets so I could help him redirect parts of the plot a bit. I do know the endpoint of Bran’s story line—and Daniel Abraham, who has been adapting the graphic novel of AGOT for me, knows where Tyrion ends up. (I am jealous of that!) But much in the way all of you have been keeping secrets from show watchers who have not yet read the books (and I continue to be impressed by how secret you all kept the Red Wedding), I also will never tell what I know. George has somehow managed to swear us all to this amazing conspiracy of silence, which I admire and appreciate and fully participate in! I had a very amusing lunch with Daniel in which we very pointedly did not tell each other what the other one knew. In short, like you, I Keep George’s Secrets.

 

[Walshicus]

Quick question - do we know if the Dornish follow The Seven, or are do they follow the Rhoynar water religion?

 

[Basileus777]

I think you're really misreading that. It's definitely true that Martin hasn't handed over much which is odd; maybe he wants to hold onto as many secrets as possible as she said, who knows. She received 168 pages in Feb 2013 for instance. In April 2013 Martin told reporters that he was a quarter done with the book, which would be 400 pages. Ultimately I really don't think it matters whether he's sending her stuff, if he's making progress. Regardless I'm going to assume he has a lot more than a quarter done more than a year later, especially considering he just had nearly seven months without a major out of state event or con.

So this Q&A gives us no new information about book 6 other than GRRM hasn't submitted any new material since early 2013 for some reason. Maybe I was reading into it pessimistically, but we're still in the dark really.

I hadn't seen the quote about it getting too long before, so that's encouraging at least, depending on the context. It sounds as if she is talking more conceptually/structurally than in terms of actual page count.

He'd still be writing because the rest of the book - ie everything that happens after the battles - would need to be written. Which is what he's doing right now.
The two battles were done; the third (Storm's End) wasn't, and Martin decided just a few months ago to actually include a glimpse of it.

I don't see anything that makes it clear that those battles were all written before ADWD. Her quotes seem to indicate the opposite if anything.

 

[Fuzzy]

I don't see anything that makes it clear that those battles were all written before ADWD. Her quotes seem to indicate the opposite if anything.

I agree, if GRRM wanted to end ADwD with those battles and they were already written then why would including them require a delay of a year?

 

[A More Normal Bird]

So this Q&A gives us no new information about book 6 other than GRRM hasn't submitted any new material since early 2013 for some reason. Maybe I was reading into it pessimistically, but we're still in the dark really.

I hadn't seen the quote about it getting too long before, so that's encouraging at least, depending on the context. It sounds as if she is talking more conceptually/structurally than in terms of actual page count.

I don't see anything that makes it clear that those battles were all written before ADWD. Her quotes seem to indicate the opposite if anything.

I also think you're misunderstanding. The quote was that if the battles were left in ADWD, the book would have had to be split in two and a lot more material following the battles included in order to make the book feel complete (cue "well why didn't they take that approach with the last two books" joke), which means he'd still be writing it (which is probably a bit tongue in cheek).

I thought it was common knowledge that the battles were pretty much done when ADWD released, hence all the preview chapters we've been getting from them.

 

[Basileus777]

I also think you're misunderstanding. The quote was that if the battles were left in ADWD, the book would have had to be split in two and a lot more material following the battles included in order to make the book feel complete (cue "well why didn't they take that approach with the last two books" joke), which means he'd still be writing it (which is probably a bit tongue in cheek).

I thought it was common knowledge that the battles were pretty much done when ADWD released, hence all the preview chapters we've been getting from them.

He certainly had material unpublished and has written more since then, so the preview chapters don't say anything here. Unless there's another quote I'm unaware of, I don't believe it's ever been confirmed or made explicit that GRRM finished writing about those battles in their entirety before ADWD was published. His editor's quotes seem to indicate the opposite.

 

[A More Normal Bird]

He certainly had material unpublished and has written more since then, so the preview chapters don't say anything here. Unless there's another quote I'm unaware of, I don't believe it;s ever been confirmed or made explicit that GRRM finished writing about those battles in their entirety. The rest just sounds like assumptions.

Sorry, I don't follow. You seem to be arguing that the battles were barely started at the time of ADWD being published, that he's still working on them and that the publication of numerous preview chapters less than a year after ADWD came out tells us nothing about any of those propositions. I don't know about you, but I don't think GRRM could pump out almost half a dozen near final chapters in a matter of months unless there was significant work done already.

I don't know how you can take Anne's statement that "he'd still be writing" as a definitive current status for particular parts of the book when she said he's only given her 168 pages in early 2013 despite having more written at the time (e.g. Tyrion II). Actually, I got curious, and according to the wiki he had 200 pages done about a year before he handed those 168 over.

 

[Basileus777]

Sorry, I don't follow. You seem to be arguing that the battles were barely started at the time of ADWD being published, that he's still working on them and that the publication of numerous preview chapters less than a year after ADWD came out tells us nothing about any of those propositions. I don't know about you, but I don't think GRRM could pump out almost half a dozen near final chapters in a matter of months unless there was significant work done already.

You keep making assumptions and leaps of logic. I've made no such argument. I've only said that I haven't seen any proof that the battles were finished when ADWD was published. The preview chapters aren't evidence of that...because they are a handful of early chapters that don't depict the entirety of these battles, and it's been three years since ADWD was finished anyway. I'm not sure how that could be any more obvious.

I don't know how you can take Anne's statement that "he'd still be writing" as a definitive current status for particular parts of the book when she said he's only given her 168 pages in early 2013 despite having more written at the time (e.g. Tyrion II).

I haven't. If you're referring to my initial post, that was meant to be half a question, and one I've backed off from since Phoenix's response.

Quick question - do we know if the Dornish follow The Seven, or are do they follow the Rhoynar water religion?

The Dornish follow the Seven, except perhaps the Orphans of the Greenblood. I can't recall if their faith is spelled out anywhere.

 

[gutshot]

All this parsing of words and trying to find subtle hints and clues reminds me so much of the wait for AFFC and ADWD. Everyone was certain it was almost done and a few months away from publication. Yet we know how that turned out.

This book will be out in 2016, at the earliest.

 

[Basileus777]

All this parsing of words and trying to find subtle hints and clues reminds me so much of the wait for AFFC and ADWD. Everyone was certain it was almost done and a few months away from publication. Yet we know how that turned out.

This book will be out in 2016, at the earliest.

GRRM was more outspoken with those books about his progress. It seems like his silence is a deliberate attempt to prevent false expectations and backlash. Right after ADWD (in this thread even) I said Summer 2015. That's still possible, but I won't be surprised or angry at a 2016 release.

 

[DKehoe]

The Blackfyres are from spin-off novellas, they don't need a purpose in the main series. GRRM throws a ton of information in these novels that has no purpose other than world building or because he likes thinking up stories about royals.

The Golden Company aligning with Aegon is, to me, the biggest sign that he might be a Blackfyre. The Golden Company was set up with the eventual goal of putting the Blackfyre line on the Iron Throne. Them breaking of a contract, something they have never done before, to return a Targaryen to the throne seems odd. You would think helping House Targaryen would be the last thing the company would want to do. When Tyrion asks Illyrio what caused the Golden Company to break a contract for the first time ever he replies that "some contracts are written in ink, others in blood"

 

[A More Normal Bird]

You keep making assumptions and leaps of logic. I've made no such argument. I've only said that I haven't seen any proof that the battles were finished when ADWD was published. The preview chapters aren't evidence of that...because they are a handful of early chapters that don't depict the entirety of these battles, and it's been three years since ADWD was finished anyway. I'm not sure how that could be any more obvious.
I haven't. If you're referring to my initial post, that was meant to be half a question, and one I've backed off from since Phoenix's response.

I'm not assuming anything; I said I didn't follow you. Your initial post didn't have a question mark, so I took it as you thinking she was providing a definitive insight. Beyond that I was referring to this:

I don't see anything that makes it clear that those battles were all written before ADWD. Her quotes seem to indicate the opposite if anything.

Which I misread as meaning nearly complete vs barely started as opposed to 100% complete vs <100% complete.

Miscommunications aside, I don't think you should brush off the preview chapters so readily. Yes it's been three years since ADWD came out, but as I pointed out, there were four chapters published or read in some form less than 12 months after ADWD was published. There have been 11 chapters released so far and the two we got this year were in a state of near completion years ago (GRRM stated this about the Arya chapter and apparently thought he'd delivered the Tyrion one at the start of 2013). Yes, you could take this to mean that he wrote a handful of chapters after ADWD came out, then just gave up and started intermittently publishing whatever he had lying around on floppy disks, but I prefer to look on the bright side and hope that in 2038 when GRRM passes away his estate will release the completed chapters of the still unpublished TWOW and we'll get to find out what really happened on that frozen lake, as opposed to the HBO version where Stannis burns the godswood in order to reforge his men's swords into skates with which to dazzle and outmanoeuvre the Freys.

 

[Basileus777]

I'm not assuming anything; I said I didn't follow you. Your initial post didn't have a question mark, so I took it as you thinking she was providing a definitive insight. Beyond that I was referring to this:


Which I misread as meaning nearly complete vs barely started as opposed to 100% complete vs <100% complete.

Miscommunications aside, I don't think you should brush off the preview chapters so readily. Yes it's been three years since ADWD came out, but as I pointed out, there were four chapters published or read in some form less than 12 months after ADWD was published. There have been 11 chapters released so far and the two we got this year were in a state of near completion years ago (GRRM stated this about the Arya chapter and apparently thought he'd delivered the Tyrion one at the start of 2013). Yes, you could take this to mean that he wrote a handful of chapters after ADWD came out, then just gave up and started intermittently publishing whatever he had lying around on floppy disks, but I prefer to look on the bright side and hope that in 2038 when GRRM passes away his estate will release the completed chapters of the still unpublished TWOW and we'll get to find out what really happened on that frozen lake, as opposed to the HBO version where Stannis burns the godswood in order to reforge his men's swords into skates with which to dazzle and outmanoeuvre the Freys.

Ah, I see now. Well I'm not claiming he didn't have a bunch of unpublished material, we know that he did. I'm just not sure that we know how far he got. I'm not making any claims of certainty, I don't know myself.

The Golden Company aligning with Aegon is, to me, the biggest sign that he might be a Blackfyre. The Golden Company was set up with the eventual goal of putting the Blackfyre line on the Iron Throne. Them breaking of a contract, something they have never done before, to return a Targaryen to the throne seems odd. You would think helping House Targaryen would be the last thing the company would want to do. When Tyrion asks Illyrio what caused the Golden Company to break a contract for the first time ever he replies that "some contracts are written in ink, others in blood"

The only problem with this is that the Golden Company doesn't seem to have any knowledge of a Blackfyre connection. Connington certainly doesn't know, Strickland either. The chance to return home and put a friendly King on the throne is a good enough explanation even without Blackfyre blood being involved.

 

[Brakke]

Man I should really pick up those Dunk and Egg stories one of these lazy summer Sundays. Those fill out Blackfyre stuff right?

 

[RedShift]

Man I should really pick up those Dunk and Egg stories one of these lazy summer Sundays. Those fill out Blackfyre stuff right?

I think next year/later this year they're being released in a compilation along with some artwork and stuff.

But yeah they have more info on the Blackfyres. And they're really good.

 

[A Human Becoming]

This book will be out in 2016, at the earliest.

2015. Believe.

The only problem with this is that the Golden Company doesn't seem to have any knowledge of a Blackfyre connection. Connington certainly doesn't know, Strickland either. The chance to return home and put a friendly King on the throne is a good enough explanation even without Blackfyre blood being involved.

Does the Golden Company really care about returning to Westeros? It was started by men exiled from the continent, but those men are long dead. Also, Viserys would have been friendly to them for winning the throne back.

A hypothesis I have for Connington and Strickland being unaware he's a Blackfyre is Varys fooled them both. During the sack of KL, Varys either persuaded the Mountain to smash the real Aegon's face in having learned Tywin's plot from his little birds, or it could have simply happened by chance. Aligned with Illyrio for the conspiracy, he presented Fake Aegon to Jon Connington, having made up the tanner's boy story. I think Varys is loyal to the House Targaryen, but more loyal to the Blackfyres or Illyrio.

 

[PhoenixDark]

I agree, if GRRM wanted to end ADwD with those battles and they were already written then why would including them require a delay of a year?

It seems pretty clear to me. If you add the battles, you end up with a 1700 MS book, which is the exact same thing that happened to AFFC/ADWD and we know how that turned out: AFFC came out, and the other half took 6 years as Martin increased the page count to make up for lost time. There's simply no way we would get ADWD split into two equally small 850 MS books. We'd get one 850 MS book, and Martin would take 3-4 years adding 650 MS pages to the second half (to total 1500 MS). And the same people right now claiming they wanted the books split would be complaining about ADWD not being good.

Groell received more ADWD content because the book took 6 years to finish, and much of it was once in one book that was split. It's hard to make a 1:1 comparison between that situation and TWOW, which Martin has been writing for almost three years.

His publishers have told people that 2015 is the goal, his editor just said she hopes to have it "reasonably soon" which suggests 2015. If he misses that goal then sure, I'll be calling for heads to roll, but until that time I feel fine. Martin's biggest problem has always been his schedule, which didn't offer enough time for him to write. He literally just completed a 7 month period in which he didn't have any official events or cons, outside of minor shit like the S4 premiers and a week in LA. He'll be done with 2014 events in late August, and won't have another scheduled event until August 2015.

Having waited for AFFC/ADWD, this wait doesn't feel the same. Martin has said he hasn't done nearly as much re-writing and I see no suggestion he is dealing with something as dire as the 5 year gap or Mereenese Knot.

 

[RobotChant]

The Dunk and Egg collection (A Knight Of The Seven Kingdoms) with "art on almost every page" is coming out in 2015. A World of Ice and Fire is coming this November. They'll want to space out their releases so the D&E collection will probably release in the Summer, at the earliest. I don't see TWOW making it in 2015.

 

[El Daniel]

Man I should really pick up those Dunk and Egg stories one of these lazy summer Sundays. Those fill out Blackfyre stuff right?

Much and more.

Read this summer D&E, The Princess and the Queen, The Roque Prince (will be released on june 17) and in october The World of Ice and Fire, then reread the entire series and then you're good for TWOW.

Good luck!

 

[Brakke]

I wish I didn't have buy them all as part of collections of other stuff though. Makes them shits five times more expensive than they need to be.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

The Dunk and Egg collection (A Knight Of The Seven Kingdoms) with "art on almost every page" is coming out in 2015. A World of Ice and Fire is coming this November. They'll want to space out their releases so the D&E collection will probably release in the Summer, at the earliest. I don't see TWOW making it in 2015.

They won't decide to delay The Winds of Winter arbitrarily just to space out releases. The book is going to be the best selling book of the year no matter when it comes out. If they decide that it's too close to when the Dunk and Egg collection would be coming out, they'd just delay that (or not, releasing it closer to The Winds of Winter might actually cause more people to pay attention due to general hype around the series).

 

[Steelyuhas]

I'm sure the publisher would love to release the book around or during a season of the show.

 

[elrechazado]

The Dornish follow the Seven, except perhaps the Orphans of the Greenblood. I can't recall if their faith is spelled out anywhere.

Rhoynar follow the water gods - old turtle of the river demigod for example with the orphans poling aegons boat in adwd. The rhoynar chapter from world of ice and fire has cool stuff about the rhoynish water magic and gods.

 

[Basileus777]

Rhoynar follow the water gods - old turtle of the river demigod for example with the orphans poling aegons boat in adwd. The rhoynar chapter from world of ice and fire has cool stuff about the rhoynish water magic and gods.

So the orphans do follow the Rhoynish gods? I couldn't remember when I made that post so I hedged.

 

[elrechazado]

So the orphans do follow the Rhoynish gods? I couldn't remember when I made that post so I hedged.

I wouldn't say we have enough info to say most or all do, but we have the one example at this point, so some do at least. The whole woiaf section in the rhoynar is so cool on the valyrian war on the rhoynar - water magic vs fire magic .

 

[PhoenixDark]

The only problem with this is that the Golden Company doesn't seem to have any knowledge of a Blackfyre connection. Connington certainly doesn't know, Strickland either. The chance to return home and put a friendly King on the throne is a good enough explanation even without Blackfyre blood being involved.

The contract was signed by the Golden Company's previous leader, Myles Toyne (Blackheart). House Toyne was destroyed shortly after Terrance Toyne, a Kingsguard member, was found abed with Aegon IV's wife. The king had them both executed and then had the guy dismembered piece by piece. Shortly afterward his brothers tried to assassinate the king for revenge but were both killed by Aemon The Dragonknight. Years later a member of House Toyne became the leader of the Kingswood Brotherhood which terrorized nobles; they tried to kill Elia Martell at one point. Later they were defeated when Barristan killed their leader, Simon Toyne.

Would you agree that someone with that type of family history probably wouldn't like the Targaryens at all?

 

[Basileus777]

The contract was signed by the Golden Company's previous leader, Myles Toyne (Blackheart). House Toyne was destroyed shortly after Terrance Toyne, a Kingsguard member, was found abed with Aegon IV's wife. The king had them both executed and then had the guy dismembered piece by piece. Shortly afterward his brothers tried to assassinate the king for revenge but were both killed by Aemon The Dragonknight. Years later a member of House Toyne became the leader of the Kingswood Brotherhood which terrorized nobles; they tried to kill Elia Martell at one point. Later they were defeated when Barristan killed their leader, Simon Toyne.

Would you agree that someone with that type of family history probably wouldn't like the Targaryens at all?

Aegon IV is the ancestor of the Blackfyres too, so it wouldn't make sense to hold that only against the legitimate line of Targs. But the Toyne angle is pretty interesting.

To clarify things, I actually lean towards Fake Aegon being a Blackfyre, I was playing a bit of devil's advocate.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

I think it's pretty likely that Toyne knew about the Blackfyre connection, but that Harry Strickland and the rest of the current leadership are unaware of any connection.

 

[Reyne]

I find this paragraph interesting:

Varys had been adamant about the need for secrecy. The plans that he and Illyrio had made with Blackheart had been known to them alone. The rest of the company had been left ignorant. What they did not know they could not let slip.

So yeah, if anyone in the Golden Company ever knew the truth about Aegon, i.e. that they were really intending to seat a Blackfyre on the Iron Throne, then Toyne was the last person to know about it. The others would have been told a more convenient lie, that he was a Targaryen. But Blackheart might not have been satisfied with that, which makes his nickname sort of ironic too.