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A Song of Ice and Fire -- **Unmarked Spoilers For All Books including ADWD**
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Spoilers are coming.
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
Next season we'll probably be getting an incredible amount of Winds content. From Bran, from Sansa and Littlefinger, and perhaps even in The Lands of Always Winter.
Basileus777
Member
Welcome to our HBO future, where they cover material from unpublished books. Best get used to it.
And by three seasons, I hope you aren't expecting them to cover AFFC/ADWD for that long, because it's not going to happen that way.
It was fun while it lasted :\
We'll always have the Red Wedding reactions I suppose!!
They're going to mix affc and adwd for 2 seasons, and I imagine at least in another year or two book 6 will be out hopefully.
We'll still have like what, two books to go though?
They're already mixing AFfC/ADwD this season. They'll be almost completely done with them in Season 5 (2015). Season 6 (2016) will finish ADwD off and then be mostly TWoW.
Try 1 season, it'll be done by the end of season 5, season 5 will also already feature Winds material, it's inevitable at this point, they're running out of published material for several characters.
Exterminieren
Banned
Bran and Sansa will be done in terms of book material by season's end, and it seems reasonably likely that Brienne will have, like, one or two paragraphs of material to cover. TWOW material will be well underway by next season.
John Dunbar
correct about everything
This thread is basically dead since while the show is airing the spoilers thread acts as the de facto book thread. Doesn't really matter what we post here.
Moff
Member
as far as I know, there are threads about the current season of the show, one for readers one for non readers.
there was also a seperate thread for ADWD.
as I see it, this thread here is the main thread about everything ASOIAF as a whole, all novels, the art books, all show seasons, what GRRM is up to, speculation etc.
mods should decide if show content is no longer allowed in this thread, I wouldnt welcome it.
there was also a seperate thread for ADWD.
as I see it, this thread here is the main thread about everything ASOIAF as a whole, all novels, the art books, all show seasons, what GRRM is up to, speculation etc.
mods should decide if show content is no longer allowed in this thread, I wouldnt welcome it.
Problem is, the other thread is as you say "huge ass". What discussion goes on there is buried amongst a horde of new memes each episode brings. And of course, the favorite "discussion" is to dissect what was or wasn't said in the unsullied thread. Well, perhaps now the prevailing trend is the discussion of whether or not you approve of what the show did with the 'Only Cat' line.
I agree that episode impression and how good this or that actor was at that role, or how this and that was different from the books: that should be kept in the other thread. But in regards to speculation of what material will be used come next season, thats pretty relevant here too, for most of us, given that it is likely to go beyond the book material.
Cornballer
Member
As much as possible, I'd like to keep this thread focused on the book series rather than the television show since we already have a thread for that. Obviously, there are occasionally things that crossover and merit some discussion here, but general tv talk should go in the other thread.
Basileus777
Member
Yet the reverse isn't true for the other thread. This is a community thread for ASOIAF, what harm is there in some show discussion sprinkled now and again? It's never threatened to derail this thread.
Cornballer
Member
I don't mind 'some show discussion sprinkled now and again' as it relates to the books. I do mind when people decide to use this strictly for show discussion because they don't want to use the other thread. Again, this isn't a strict moratorium on show discussion or anything like that, just some guidance on what should go where. Hope that makes sense.
The Artful Dodger
Member
I admire your patience and dedication to all this Cornballer.
I like that this thread is a little slower. That show thread moves like a mother when episodes air, I might've missed that World of Ice and Fire stuff entirely without this one.
And yeah, TV should be fair game. It already doesn't dominate discussion in this thread so I don't think concern is warranted.
And yeah, TV should be fair game. It already doesn't dominate discussion in this thread so I don't think concern is warranted.
badcrumble
Member
Especially as the show starts to move ahead of the books, it'll be inevitable that it gets discussed in here.
Cornballer
Member
GRRM posted about this today. He also mentions a little bit about the process of creating the book in the comments:
Basileus777
Member
GRRM wrote an entire novel about the Dance of the Dragons? Haha.
Cornballer
Member
I looked up the word counts for the series, but I don't know if these are accurate. Just some internet numbers that have been floating around:
I thought ACoK and AFFC were a fair bit longer than AGoT, but maybe I'm misremembering that.
It really doesn't mean much, maybe it needed to be trimmed down because it was part of an anthology.
If I recall correctly my versions (Bantam books paperback GoT-AFFC boxset) were approximately 800 pages long for GoT, 950 pages for ACoK and AFFC 950+, but AFFC used a noticeably larger font.
What seems more off is that I'm pretty sure ADWD was longer than ASoS but I can't provide comparisons since I have hardcover ADWD.
adamsappel
Member
At least it can dispute the "GRRM is lazy" claim.
I just checked and the last page of the epilogue in the ADwD paperback is 1051 and it went back to almost the same font size (41 lines per page vs 42 lines per page) as ASoS (1128 pages).
I hear that if you counted every single word from the series then the next book would be out by the time you've finished! I don't believe it though! 
I think TWOW will be a tighter book than ADWD, I'm guessing the plots will start to merge and the amount of fluff reduced. I can't wait for this book, a lot of major stuff is about to go down! I hope it's ASOS 2.0
I think TWOW will be a tighter book than ADWD, I'm guessing the plots will start to merge and the amount of fluff reduced. I can't wait for this book, a lot of major stuff is about to go down! I hope it's ASOS 2.0
]I hear that if you counted every single word from the series then the next book would be out by the time you've finished! I don't believe it though!
I think TWOW will be a tighter book than ADWD, I'm guessing the plots will start to merge and the amount of fluff reduced. I can't wait for this book, a lot of major stuff is about to go down! I hope it's ASOS 2.0
Heh, I wish.
But this is at least easy to estimate. Either from the length of the audiobooks or just aproximate to one word per second which would equal to around 20,5 days of continuous counting.
unless one uses the word count option in Office
*Source for word count estimate.
EDIT: I really hope GRRM does not expand the series by another book.
I don't think he will. He may write -- or at least plan to write -- companion pieces (books, stories, novellas, whatever) afterward. But I think he'll sew it up.
I see your point, but if two years per book gets me something like the The First Law trilogy, then no thanks. The next book should be all culmination and the book after it should wrapp up and properly finish the series. Even if it takes 5-7 years per book to solve all the loose end.
Basileus777
Member
I think most things will get wrapped up. I don't see GRRM leaving many plot lines dangling. Though obviously the world and characters will live on past where it ends.
CitizenVectron
Member
I loved The First Law books, especially how they ended. They did an even better job of destroying fantasy tropes than GRRM has. The fact that nothing is basically resolved in the end and you wonder who were even the good guys was well done, I think.
The First Law's "in your face" trope-destroying was a bit too much for my taste. I love how GRRM subverts trope, but Abercrombie's XXXXTREME grimdark "do you see me dragging your silly fantasy tropes through the mud, reader? Do you?!" ways are often tiresome.
(Sorry for the derail Cornballer!)
I'd take 2 years per book the get something like the first law trilogy, imo, I rank First law higher than asoiaf. The story was to the point, no fluff, he then goes and writes 3 other books set in the same world, and builds on it, instead of muddying up the three "core" books with fluff...
GoT was '96, CoK was '98, and SoS was '00. So he could do it, I just think he's got a lot of other things that interest him more now.
Wouldn't mind seeing all 80k of those words one day. I wonder if he'll try to expand on it for a more fantasy-sized tome after the main series is over, though.
The First Law hasn't held up well. Red Country (the last of the three standalone novels LordGrimdark wrote after the trilogy) is ace, though.
The First Law hasn't held up well. Red Country (the last of the three standalone novels LordGrimdark wrote after the trilogy) is ace, though.
PhoenixDark
Banned
If it wasn't for the show, I'd be fine with an extra book because AFFC/ADWD was supposed to be one book. Ultimately I think two will be enough to finish in a satisfying manner. Do I expect for everything to be answered? Of course not. But I think there are some mysteries that almost certainly will get answers (what happened to Benjen) and some that probably aren't meant to be answered (what happened to Gerion Lannister). I can already imagine a Reddit post being made in 2017 or 2018 with bullet points for each mystery left unanswered. But I would imagine that those left unanswered will be things the community will debate and discuss for years to come.
I think my biggest disappointment/criticism right now is that Martin has kept his cards too close to his chest. Westeros has been at war since ACOK with no end in sight, yet the White Walkers will apparently be dealt with over the course of just two books (TWOW and ADOS). Seems like their threat is over-exaggerated if it's just going to be dealt with in one year of winter. Although to be fair Martin has said the ending will be bittersweet, so maybe it'll end with no actual "win" for humanity. Perhaps an early rout in the Others' favor throughout TWOW followed by humanity fighting back enough to reclaim some land and a tepid, temporary stalemate.
I think my biggest disappointment/criticism right now is that Martin has kept his cards too close to his chest. Westeros has been at war since ACOK with no end in sight, yet the White Walkers will apparently be dealt with over the course of just two books (TWOW and ADOS). Seems like their threat is over-exaggerated if it's just going to be dealt with in one year of winter. Although to be fair Martin has said the ending will be bittersweet, so maybe it'll end with no actual "win" for humanity. Perhaps an early rout in the Others' favor throughout TWOW followed by humanity fighting back enough to reclaim some land and a tepid, temporary stalemate.
I haven't given the standalone novels a chance, but I will give Red Country a shot, we usually have similar taste when it comes to this kind of stuff. Haven't read fantasy in months, so it's a welcome suggestion.
Getting back to GRRM: I have lost track of the She-Wolves of Winterfell. Is the novella supposed to come out anytime soon? (lol)
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
A Red Country was fan-fucking-tastic. That's my contribution to the derail, carry on. ^_^
Purple Cheeto
Member
People pull this up all the time, but I think its important to remember that the material covered by those 3 books was actually more planned out than what he has now. The whole saga was meant to be a trilogy, and the Red Wedding was supposed to be the culmination of the first book. Instead, because of George's gardener nature, it ended up being the culminating point of the third book and after that he wasn't really sure where to go.
He also had WAY fewer distractions back in those days given his fanbase was much smaller, he didn't have a tv show to obsess over/write a script for and he was still trying to beat JK Rowling at winning awards. The circumstances that existed for him to produce 3 books in a 4 year span don't exist any more. He has changed, his life has changed, the nature of the story he is trying to tell has changed.
Basically hoping for him to churn a book out every 2 years until the series is done is little more than wishful thinking. I'd love to be proven wrong, but the evidence just doesn't support it as being plausible.
I don't agree with the stated oppinions regarding the The First Law, but that would be off topic.
I expected this to be brought up. Maybe you ar right. Maybe the old man is "procrastinating" too much and he could do it in two years even now.
I am of the oppinion that it was/is harder to write the following books. He has to address many plot lines and it takes time to resolve them if we expect proper resolution, and want him to address the many hints and clues in the story.
The first few books were probably a lot easier to write for GRRM. He had the story cooking in his mind before he set to writing and in the begining he was aiming for a trilogy. Meanwhile he got more ideas, expanded the story and it got a lot harder to continue.
Of course he is also milking the cow for more money in the last few years, probably indulging himself in things he couldn't really afford before and I can't really blame him for that.
Maybe I should give RC or the other stand alone novels a shot as well. I dunno...
I expected this to be brought up. Maybe you ar right. Maybe the old man is "procrastinating" too much and he could do it in two years even now.
I am of the oppinion that it was/is harder to write the following books. He has to address many plot lines and it takes time to resolve them if we expect proper resolution, and want him to address the many hints and clues in the story.
The first few books were probably a lot easier to write for GRRM. He had the story cooking in his mind before he set to writing and in the begining he was aiming for a trilogy. Meanwhile he got more ideas, expanded the story and it got a lot harder to continue.
Of course he is also milking the cow for more money in the last few years, probably indulging himself in things he couldn't really afford before and I can't really blame him for that.
Maybe I should give RC or the other stand alone novels a shot as well. I dunno...
I only brought that up because people were talking about how the quality of SOIAF would have to go down if he released a book every 2 years. Considering SOS is widely regarded as the best in the series, I wanted to point out that he can make a quality book in that time frame, if he was properly motivated / managed his time for it.
That said, there's no way in hell we'll ever see him release a book in 2 years now a days.
That said, there's no way in hell we'll ever see him release a book in 2 years now a days.
Laurentius
Member
This just made me realize that Garth Nix came up with a "magical wall that keeps scary things from the North out of the South" in his Abhorshen series a year before GRRM. It was also just called "The Wall", although most of the similarities end there.
Great series, by the way. I actually got to meet Garth Nix at a small book signing a few weeks ago. Great guy, and great author.
I pretty much agree with you (I don't mind if Benjen's faith remains a mistery).
I also think that there should be somewhat more stuff related to the Others. There have been five books already. I justify it the same way you do. I hope there will be no deus ex machina solution for the threat they pose.
PhoenixDark
Banned
That scares me as well. Some people have theorized that there are a lot of dragon glass weapons in the crypts of Winterfell...I don't know how to feel about that. It would feel sort of like a deus ex machina moment, especially if for instance a direwolf led mankind into the crypts and lo and behold: the only weapons that can defeat the Others! Dunno...
Based on what we've seen and heard thus far it seems like the Others would have no problem killing everything in their path until dragons arrive.
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