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[endre]

That scares me as well. Some people have theorized that there are a lot of dragon glass weapons in the crypts of Winterfell...I don't know how to feel about that. It would feel sort of like a deus ex machina moment, especially if for instance a direwolf led mankind into the crypts and lo and behold: the only weapons that can defeat the Others! Dunno...

Based on what we've seen and heard thus far it seems like the Others would have no problem killing everything in their path until dragons arrive.

I hope that theory is wrong. GRRM wouldn't pull a stupid stunt like that. Stacking dragonglass enough for a large army in the crypts. Hopefully the crypst have an other story to tell.

Nah, I refuse to believe this.

The Others obviously have some limitations. Otherwise they should already be at the gates of Kings Landing. But you probably know this already.

 

[PhoenixDark]

GoT was '96, CoK was '98, and SoS was '00. So he could do it, I just think he's got a lot of other things that interest him more now.

To be fair Martin started writing GoT in 1991, and it included a lot of content from CoK and SoS; the Blackwater was initially in the first book. So when he finished GoT he had hundreds worth of pages finished for the next two books, so technically they took a lot longer than two years to write.

 

[Basileus777]

To be fair Martin started writing GoT in 1991, and it included a lot of content from CoK and SoS; the Blackwater was initially in the first book. So when he finished GoT he had hundreds worth of pages finished for the next two books, so technically they took a lot longer than two years to write.

This was true of ADWD and TWOW too. And he wasn't writing AGOT full-time in 1991. His writing speed and productivity has definitely declined significantly.

 

[PhoenixDark]

This was true of ADWD and TWOW too. And he wasn't writing AGOT full-time in 1991. His writing speed and productivity has definitely declined significantly.

He had 100-200 pages from Dance for Winds, whereas he almost had half of CoK done before GoT even came out. Pretty different situation.

 

[A Human Becoming]

I know we're trying to keep the show separate from this thread, but I'm curious what people's thoughts are about this comment from Westeros.org about the last episode:

The detail that Melisandre believes that Shireen must accompany them to the Wall is one that is heavily speculated based on other details in the novels—namely Shireen’s dreams, which may be prophetic—but are not actually confirmed in the books.

I don't recall Melisandre making that claim in the books. I could only find one Shireen dream, which didn't follow the prophetic style of other characters. Patchface has been speculated to be a prophesier, not her.

This might be the second time the show has provided information from the last two books. Shireen is very much a side character in the novels, whereas now she's been portrayed as an important character. It's a problem you face with Martin giving the producers an outline of how the series will end. I wish instead they would have made their own ending.

 

[traveler]

I'd be fine with another book as well if Martin actually went no further than ~3 years between the rest of the novels and the show took a different route. As it stands, though, the show threatens to spoil the novels, (although I guess this will happen regardless of whether 2 or 3 books remain) and I want to experience the story via the novels first, without having to dodge show spoilers. I enjoy the show, but it's nowhere near the quality of the books at their best.

 

[Brakke]

I wouldn't say Shireen is important on the show. She's had like three scenes.

I read the show scene as setting up some Kingsblood conflict later. It was weird though, besides an excuse for titties, why bother having that scene?

 

[A Human Becoming]

I wouldn't say Shireen is important on the show. She's had like three scenes.

I read the show scene as setting up some Kingsblood conflict later. It was weird though, besides an excuse for titties, why bother having that scene?

I meant that she'll be important later. Kingsblood conflict? You think Melisandre would propose burning Shireen?

 

[CitizenVectron]

I meant that she'll be important later. Kingsblood conflict? You think Melisandre would propose burning Shireen?

Yes. I think it will be a scene designed to show that Stannis isn't completely under her control.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Shireen has a dream that dragons eat her in CoK, and Melisandre has often said she can raise a shadow dragon from stone. Finally in CoK Dany sees a vision of a great stone beast rising from a smoking tower, breathing shadow fire.

I think Shireen could be sacrificed for her king's blood, perhaps to heal Jon...or IMO to do something for Stannis. I think Melisandre will figure out Stannis isn't dead soon enough, but perhaps will use the pink letter to convince Selyse that the only way to save Stannis is to sacrifice Shireen. They burn her and greyscale breaks out on the Wall. So the great stone beast isn't an actual dragon IMO, but instead greyscale. And when Stannis arrives back at the Wall and learns what happen, he'll plunge his sword through his wife's heart.

Or it could refer to Connington in the south, who could also cause plague; actually it might make more sense narratively for it to break out in the south where there are more people.

 

[A Human Becoming]

Shireen has a dream that dragons eat her in CoK, and Melisandre has often said she can raise a shadow dragon from stone. Finally in CoK Dany sees a vision of a great stone beast rising from a smoking tower, breathing shadow fire.

I think Shireen could be sacrificed for her king's blood, perhaps to heal Jon...or IMO to do something for Stannis. I think Melisandre will figure out Stannis isn't dead soon enough, but perhaps will use the pink letter to convince Selyse that the only way to save Stannis is to sacrifice Shireen. They burn her and greyscale breaks out on the Wall. So the great stone beast isn't an actual dragon IMO, but instead greyscale. And when Stannis arrives back at the Wall and learns what happen, he'll plunge his sword through his wife's heart.

Or it could refer to Connington in the south, who could also cause plague; actually it might make more sense narratively for it to break out in the south where there are more people.

So you think Stannis is Azor Ahai reborn?

 

[CitizenVectron]

Oh god that would be awesome.

However, I also like the following idea:

Tommen & Myrcella both die, making Stannis the rightful king through no act of his own, and without discrediting the claims of the bastard Lannister children in general. He finds out he is king, but instead of heading south he leads the final defense of the wall against the White Walkers and dies defending it, becoming the one and only king to actually do what was best for his kingdom. After he dies, Shireen is pronounced queen as the sole surviving Baratheon and marries Rickon Stark to finally unite the Stark and Baratheon households as originally planned.

 

[Sotha Sil]

I wouldn't say Shireen is important on the show. She's had like three scenes.

I read the show scene as setting up some Kingsblood conflict later. It was weird though, besides an excuse for titties, why bother having that scene?

It also reminds the watchers that Melisandre (and/or R'hllor magic) often relies on illusions.

Which reminds me, she didn't have her necklace in the bath; would it invalidate the glamour theories?

 

[A Human Becoming]

I think her eating dinner possibly ruined the glamour theory.

 

[Sotha Sil]

In order to bring the discussion back to the books, is there a big twist you actually see coming? The Viper's death is the only event I really felt was telegraphed; there was no way Tyrion could get out of a problem the same way twice. I'm generally really bad a predicting stuff though; the most elementary prophecy fakeouts fool me time and again.

I think her eating dinner possibly ruined the glamour theory.

Ah, never got that.

 

[RedShift]

I think her eating dinner possibly ruined the glamour theory.

She eats in the books as well, but she says (well, thinks) that she only does it to put people at ease and she doesn't need to.

 

[Dresden]

So you think Stannis is Azor Ahai reborn?

More palatable than Jon Snow being one, at least.

 

[A Human Becoming]

She eats in the books as well, but she says (well, thinks) that she only does it to put people at ease and she doesn't need to.

Did she? I thought characters said they never saw her eat.

More palatable than Jon Snow being one, at least.

My bet is on Dany still.

 

[Dysun]

Jon is the song of ice and fire, the prince that was promised, daenerys is nissa nissa. it is known

 

[Incandenza]

Jon is the song of ice and fire, the prince that was promised, daenerys is nissa nissa. it is known

Implying Jon is gonna end up killing Dany?

I find Jon dying a lot more likely than Dany dying, personally. Even though Dany won't be plot-armored once she lands in Westeros, she'd have to do a hell of a lot in a comparatively short time frame to make all that time spent feel warranted.

 

[M.Bluth]

Dany is probably gonna get killed by Aegon, anyway

 

[PhoenixDark]

So you think Stannis is Azor Ahai reborn?

Not necessarily. He thinks he is Azor Ahai but I don't think he'll kill her with that in mind. I lean more towards him being the Night's King or something similar. If Rickon shows up, the north will effectively abandon Stannis' campaign. He'll have to wait at the Wall for his sell swords, assuming they ever come. And during that time I think he'll take a more active role with the Night's Watch and fight the Others before being turned somehow.

(I still don't believe the thing in episode 4 of this season was indeed "The" Night's Watch).

 

[Basileus777]

Dany is probably gonna get killed by Aegon, anyway

Lol. GRRM is making it so incredibly obvious that Aegon is doomed. You remember that silly speech Varys gives about how great of a King Aegon will be because he is educated? You can't have a more blatant setup for a subversion/deconstruction of that idea. GRRM was probably cackling when he wrote that scene.

 

[The Artful Dodger]

Lol. GRRM is making it so incredibly obvious that Aegon is doomed. You remember that silly speech Varys gives about how great of a King Aegon will be because he is educated? You can't get a more blatant setup for a subversion/deconstruction of that idea.

What are you talking about? It's going to be a happy ending for him.

Just like...

...

Spoiler

He's fucked.

 

[rando14]

Aegon and dany both gonna get got for sure

 

[Mentok]

Aegon and dany both gonna get got for sure

Yeah pretty predictable. Dany's bretayals haven't played out yet and Aegon was set up as too good out of nowhere. He's doomed too.

 

[Dresden]

Aegon's doomed and Dany is going to be killed by a Faceless Arya.

Sansa victory is basically assured at this point.

 

[PhoenixDark]

I was flipping through ADWD last night and decided to re-read that last Connington chapter. Aegon names the common born Duck to his Kingsguard against Connington's advice, shows up hours late after being summoned to Griffin's Roost, then shows up an hour late to a meeting with Connington, and then declares he will personally lead the assault on Storm's End. While there's not much evidence that Aegon is cruel, he's clearly arrogant and doomed as fucked. Still, I honestly believe he'll take the throne before the end of the next book. He may be a reckless child but currently all the cards are stacked in his favor.

TWOW:

Spoiler

Also Arianne learns that the Storm's End battle was quite bloody, which is interesting. Connington had a plan to take the castle by "guile," I wonder if Aegon altered the plan and caused unnecessary casualties.

 

[M.Bluth]

Lol. GRRM is making it so incredibly obvious that Aegon is doomed. You remember that silly speech Varys gives about how great of a King Aegon will be because he is educated? You can't have a more blatant setup for a subversion/deconstruction of that idea. GRRM was probably cackling when he wrote that scene.

Sure, he's doomed. But not before facing Dany. I don't see either of them being wise enough to join forces, instead they'll battle, and both die.

I personally favor Stannis' cause for the throne.
Though I can see the Faith hijacking it, because even if the High Septon was Howland Reed, there's probably many that would prefer to have the Faith rule instead of all those kings that keep fighting their succession wars.

 

[fanboi]

Guys, Jon Snow, reborn as the warrior for light, will retake his home, retake Westeros, and then impregnate Arya, following the old Targaryen motto.

Then, the clone wars have begun.

It is known.

 

[Joni]

Aegon will probably conquer the southern part of Westeros and be the cause of death for Tommen. Cersei still has to lose her children. Kevan is dead, so the next book can start with a foolish attack on Aegon under orders of Cersei-Tommen. Myrcella will become queen so Tommen has to die first. Something will fall apart, for instance the actual coming of the freezer dudes.

 

[RedShift]

I was flipping through ADWD last night and decided to re-read that last Connington chapter. Aegon names the common born Duck to his Kingsguard against Connington's advice, shows up hours late after being summoned to Griffin's Roost, then shows up an hour late to a meeting with Connington, and then declares he will personally lead the assault on Storm's End. While there's not much evidence that Aegon is cruel, he's clearly arrogant and doomed as fucked. Still, I honestly believe he'll take the throne before the end of the next book. He may be a reckless child but currently all the cards are stacked in his favor.

TWOW:

Spoiler

Also Arianne learns that the Storm's End battle was quite bloody, which is interesting. Connington had a plan to take the castle by "guile," I wonder if Aegon altered the plan and caused unnecessary casualties.

As further evidence for Aegon being a bit of a prick, remember when Tyrion beats him at Cyvasse and his response is to throw the board on the floor and order Tyrion to pick it all up. I think Tyrion even compares him to Joffrey afterwards.

 

[A Human Becoming]

As further evidence for Aegon being a bit of a prick, remember when Tyrion beats him at Cyvasse and his response is to throw the board on the floor and order Tyrion to pick it all up. I think Tyrion even compares him to Joffrey afterwards.

No, Tyrion said he might be a Targaryen after all.

 

[Reyne]

I don't think Aegon was a prick so much as he was acting as a normal teenager who has never been put in his place, so to speak. Also, Aegon was doomed the moment he decided to listen to Tyrion, who was clearly playing the game of thrones Littlefinger style. Aegon is more naive than arrogant, I would say.

 

[Basileus777]

I don't think Aegon was a prick so much as he was acting as a normal teenager who has never been put in his place, so to speak. Also, Aegon was doomed the moment he decided to listen to Tyrion, who was clearly playing the game of thrones Littlefinger style. Aegon is more naive than arrogant, I would say.

It's not like Aegon had any better options than listening to Tyrion. He had no way to get to Dany, and the Golden Company would have just taken another contract if he had decided to do nothing and wait more. Strickland was trying to worm out of it anyway.

 

[Reyne]

It's not like Aegon had any better options than listening to Tyrion. He had no way to get to Dany, and the Golden Company would have just taken another contract if he had decided to do nothing and wait more. Strickland was trying to worm out of it anyway.

Perhaps so, but from Tyrions perspective, he is intentionally trying ( and succeeded ) to fool Aegon into going west rather than east for his own purpose and he later thinks when he finds out about it:

"We’re going east, and Griff and his prince are going west, the bloody fools."

Fools indeed. Aegon might have some initial success in his Westeros campaign, but at the end of the day he is going to be at the mercy of Daenerys, precisely because he didn't secure that alliance first. Might be his quest would have failed either way, but I think the Golden Company would have been more patient with Aegon regardless of what they said, because their ultimate goal and end-game is also to return to Westeros.

 

[Basileus777]

Perhaps so, but from Tyrions perspective, he is intentionally trying ( and succeeded ) to fool Aegon into going west rather than east for his own purpose and he later thinks when he finds out about it:

"We’re going east, and Griff and his prince are going west, the bloody fools."

Fools indeed. Aegon might have some initial success in his Westeros campaign, but at the end of the day he is going to be at the mercy of Daenerys, precisely because he didn't secure that alliance first. Might be his quest would have failed either way, but I think the Golden Company would have been more patient with Aegon regardless of what they said, because their ultimate goal and end-game is also to return to Westeros.

What else could they have done? Lose half their army on the demon road to arrive at a besieged city full of disease with Dany married to someone else and not even there at the moment? And even if they meet Dany, Aegon would be in the same position Quentyn was, except Dany has been warned of a mummer's dragon and would likely think him a fake. Dealing with Meereen's quagmire isn't less risky than invading the stormlands.

 

[Reyne]

What else could they have done? Lose half their army on the demon road to arrive at a besieged city full of disease with Dany married to someone else and not even there at the moment? And even if they meet Dany, Aegon would be in the same position Quentyn was, except Dany has been warned of a mummer's dragon and would likely think him a fake. Dealing with Meereen's quagmire isn't less risky than invading the stormlands.

Well hindsight is 20/20. But I think this is a little beside the point. What I am saying is that it was Tyrions 'advice' ( which was intended to lead Aegon away from Daenerys ) that eventually lead to the current situation. Who knows what they might have done otherwise, or whether is it is better or worse. Maybe they could have waited for the situation in Meereen to reach an conclusion before taking action, however patient they would have to be for that. Or they could take their ships to Meereen.
Either way, he wouldn't be in the same situation as Quentyn at all. Aegon is ( for all intent and purposes ) the rightful heir of the Iron Throne before Daenerys. She would have to make some kind of deal with him, marriage or otherwise, unlike with Quentyn.
Anyway, I am pretty sure that Aegon and Daenerys will be alienated by the time they first meet, neither pleased with the other, which will lead to Aegons inevitable doom.

 

[Basileus777]

Well hindsight is 20/20. But I think this is a little beside the point. What I am saying is that it was Tyrions 'advice' ( which was intended to lead Aegon away from Daenerys ) that eventually lead to the current situation. Who knows what they might have done otherwise, or whether is it is better or worse. Maybe they could have waited for the situation in Meereen to reach an conclusion before taking action, however patient they would have to be for that.

Waiting seems to be the only other reasonable alternative, if the captains and Strickland would have been willing to do it. They were fed up with all of Illyrio's failed plans.

Or they could take their ship to Meereen.

They had no ships and Meereen was blockaded. They only got transport to Westeros because the Triarchs wanted them away from the city and away from Dany.

Either way, he wouldn't be in the same situation as Quentyn at all. Aegon is ( for all intent and purposes ) the rightful heir of the Iron Throne before Daenerys. She would have to make some kind of deal with him, marriage or otherwise, unlike with Quentyn.
Anyway, I am pretty sure that Aegon and Daenerys will be alienated by the time they first meet, neither pleased with the other, which we'll lead to Aegons inevitable doom.

He's only the heir if people accept that he's Rhaegar's son. I doubt Dany would have done so. The whole reason it was important for Aegon to marry Dany was to give him legitimacy. The only thing he offers her is what's left of the Golden Company, something far worse than all of Dorne.

 

[Reyne]

They had no ships and Meereen was blockaded. They only got transport to Westeros because the Triarchs wanted them away from the city and away from Dany.

Yeah, forgot that. Never mind.

He's only the heir if people accept that he's Rhaegar's son. I doubt Dany would have done so. The whole reason it was important for Aegon to marry Dany was to give him legitimacy. The only thing he offers her is what's left of the Golden Company, something far worse than all of Dorne.

Not so sure about that. But I guess we'll never find out what Daenerys would have done. Maybe she would have killed or locked up Aegon because she could scarcely send him on his way knowing he would try to lay his own claim to the throne regardless. Whether people accept him or not is about as moot as someone accepting Daenerys as heir, when you think about it.

Still, Tyrion changed Aegon and his company's path, for better or worse.

 

[Loofy]

So heres something that bothers me. The maesters in westeros think that magic doesnt exist.. are they dumb?

It seems magic in the world is weaker with the absence of dragons but its pretty obvious that magic still existed. Amulets nullifying poison, shadow magic, house of the undying etc.
Old Town didnt know about any of this?

 

[Basileus777]

So heres something that bothers me. The maesters in westeros think that magic doesnt exist.. are they dumb?

It seems magic in the world is weaker with the absence of dragons but its pretty obvious that magic still existed. Amulets nullifying poison, shadow magic, house of the undying etc.
Old Town didnt know about any of this?

No, they know it exists. The official line is that it's weakened compared to the old days, which is what Luwin says. And it was the truth until the dragons came back.

 

[Loofy]

No, they know it exists. The official line is that it's weakened compared to the old days, which is what Luwin says. And it was the truth until the dragons came back.

Ok I probably forgot what he just said then. I thought he said something like 'Only a few maesters have trained in the mysteries, Im one of them, its all just old wives tales lol..'

 

[Morrigan Stark]

"Because most of the time, it's true."

 

[Veelk]

Ok I probably forgot what he just said then. I thought he said something like 'Only a few maesters have trained in the mysteries, Im one of them, its all just old wives tales lol..'

It's less that they don't believe in it, and more that they want it gone. They want people to forget it ever happened, if they can help it. Easiest way to discourage that is to tell them that it's bullshit.

 

[Razzer]

Is there a place where you can find every preview chapter listed? I've been looking but my google-fu is awful. I've only read the Arya one.

 

[El Daniel]

Here's a list of chapters.

 

[Razzer]

Here's a list of chapters.

Thanks!

 

[Future PhaZe]

yall really think Aegon is a Targaryen on the real though?

I just can't fall in line with it--it's too much of a deus ex machina thing for based george to come up with

 

[Reyne]

yall really think Aegon is a Targaryen on the real though?

I just can't fall in line with it--it's too much of a deus ex machina thing for based george to come up with

Most ( me included ) believe that he is a Blackfyre, or the descendant of one on the female line, which seems to fit thematically. Still, black or red, a dragon is still a dragon, no?