What if Rhaegar left some of his Chakra in Jon and revels himself at the right moment when the Ice Dragon is about to be freed, and he tells his son "Naruto, I mean Jon, I have been with you your entire life. Yes...yes son I was the one who inspired you to give the Lord's kiss....".
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A Song of Ice and Fire -- **Unmarked Spoilers For All Books including ADWD**
- Thread starter Pollux
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A Human Becoming
More than a Member
Enough of the silly talk, here's a topic I think is worth discussing. Browsing the Wiki of Ice and Fire, as I often do, I was looking at the number of chapters each (major) POV character has not counting Winds of Winter:
It made me think about what significance these numbers have. Do they suggest Jon and Tyrion will most of all have the largest impact on the overall story or that they're GRRMs favorite characters? Jon's role protecting the wall has been of importance since the beginning. Tyrion on the other hand has been reacting to the events around him: taken hostage by Catelyn, sent to fight in the Green Fork, made hand of the king, defends King's Landing from Stannis, forced to marry Sansa, framed for murdering Joffrey, captured by Jorah and enslaved by a Yunkai slaver. The only instances where he really made a choice was to go with fAegon and Jon Cunningham to see Daenerys and to join the Second Sons. Even in those cases it wasn't like he had many options. Is he destined for greatness? Does that mean claiming Casterly Rock by helping Daenerys? The Lannisters has been in decline since Storm of Swords, when The Starks hit their lowest point. While Tommen is still King, his family support has been reduced to his parents, broken in their own ways. Even his sister is in the hands of Lannister enemies. Despite being only in a company of 500, with Lannister power waning thanks to Cersei, will someone else step up after Kevan or is Tyrion to defeat Cersei?
Daenerys and Arya I would consider the next most important characters. Daenerys does not need much discussion: she is a conqueror and mother of dragons. Arya has been captured/taken by many different people: Yoren, Gregor, Brotherhood with Banners and Sandor. Like Tyrion, she's made only two real choices: to escape Harrenhall and venture to Bravos. Is her larger role to play is assassinating major players/characters? Could she be sent to kill Daenerys? Tommen? Will she get revenge on Cersei? Like Tyrion, who does not hold authority by nobility like Cersei and Jaime do, Arya is the sister of a King and a player to the game of thrones (Sansa). Also like Tyrion, she joined a group of killers (albeit Tyrion doesn't intend to fight). The two seem to parallel in some regards. All have distincy connections: Danny and Jon work to protect people, Danny and Arya don't retain typical female roles, Danny and Tyrion are looking to claim what they believe is their right, Jon and Arya are somewhat outcasts, Jon and Tyrion are looked down on by society, and Tyrion and Arya for the reasons I said above.
I'll talk about the others at a later time.
- Tyrion: 47
- Jon: 42
- Arya: 33
- Daenerys: 31
- Catelyn: 25
- Sansa: 24
- Bran: 21
- Jaime: 17
- Eddard: 15
- Theon: 14
- Davos: 13
- Cersei: 12
- Samwell: 10
- Brienne: 8
It made me think about what significance these numbers have. Do they suggest Jon and Tyrion will most of all have the largest impact on the overall story or that they're GRRMs favorite characters? Jon's role protecting the wall has been of importance since the beginning. Tyrion on the other hand has been reacting to the events around him: taken hostage by Catelyn, sent to fight in the Green Fork, made hand of the king, defends King's Landing from Stannis, forced to marry Sansa, framed for murdering Joffrey, captured by Jorah and enslaved by a Yunkai slaver. The only instances where he really made a choice was to go with fAegon and Jon Cunningham to see Daenerys and to join the Second Sons. Even in those cases it wasn't like he had many options. Is he destined for greatness? Does that mean claiming Casterly Rock by helping Daenerys? The Lannisters has been in decline since Storm of Swords, when The Starks hit their lowest point. While Tommen is still King, his family support has been reduced to his parents, broken in their own ways. Even his sister is in the hands of Lannister enemies. Despite being only in a company of 500, with Lannister power waning thanks to Cersei, will someone else step up after Kevan or is Tyrion to defeat Cersei?
Daenerys and Arya I would consider the next most important characters. Daenerys does not need much discussion: she is a conqueror and mother of dragons. Arya has been captured/taken by many different people: Yoren, Gregor, Brotherhood with Banners and Sandor. Like Tyrion, she's made only two real choices: to escape Harrenhall and venture to Bravos. Is her larger role to play is assassinating major players/characters? Could she be sent to kill Daenerys? Tommen? Will she get revenge on Cersei? Like Tyrion, who does not hold authority by nobility like Cersei and Jaime do, Arya is the sister of a King and a player to the game of thrones (Sansa). Also like Tyrion, she joined a group of killers (albeit Tyrion doesn't intend to fight). The two seem to parallel in some regards. All have distincy connections: Danny and Jon work to protect people, Danny and Arya don't retain typical female roles, Danny and Tyrion are looking to claim what they believe is their right, Jon and Arya are somewhat outcasts, Jon and Tyrion are looked down on by society, and Tyrion and Arya for the reasons I said above.
I'll talk about the others at a later time.
Much obliged.
Damn, I have read the books in preparation of S4 on HBO, and I can honestly say that GRRM is a brilliant writer.
Although I read the translations, the books are a blast to read and you read through them like a train. Its fairly easy to understand and there are numerous things that you might miss the first time around.
So I read did some backreading on the webz, and (although some/many might not be true) the foreshadowings and literary devices that GRRM uses are great.
Like the shaggy dog theorem, and the fact that The Bear and Maiden Fair can represent a lot of types of relationships (Jorah and Dany, Sansa and the Hound and reversely: Jaime and Brienne, with her being the bear and him being the maiden fair).
I love the fact that even though I read the books not noticing many of the foreshadowings and other (sometimes blatant) hints, I still felt like the books are among the best I have ever read.
Also, this is one of the reasons I believe R+L=J (something I never would have picked up). Although that might be confirmation bias for me at least
Although I read the translations, the books are a blast to read and you read through them like a train. Its fairly easy to understand and there are numerous things that you might miss the first time around.
So I read did some backreading on the webz, and (although some/many might not be true) the foreshadowings and literary devices that GRRM uses are great.
Like the shaggy dog theorem, and the fact that The Bear and Maiden Fair can represent a lot of types of relationships (Jorah and Dany, Sansa and the Hound and reversely: Jaime and Brienne, with her being the bear and him being the maiden fair).
I love the fact that even though I read the books not noticing many of the foreshadowings and other (sometimes blatant) hints, I still felt like the books are among the best I have ever read.
Also, this is one of the reasons I believe R+L=J (something I never would have picked up). Although that might be confirmation bias for me at least
RobotChant
Member
You don't think he's going to do any promotion for The World of Ice & Fire, which releases at the end of October? Then you have the announcement of The Knight of Seven Kingdoms for sometime in 2015. Amazon UK has already given it a tentative date of Aug 2015.
PhoenixDark
Banned
I forgot about WOIAF. Perhaps he'll do some events for it, but I don't imagine it'll be a noteworthy tour like he does for an ASOIAF novel. It's basically a coffee book, I'd imagine it's handled differently.
But to be fair let's say he spends a month touring the book. His TWOW writing time (before April 2015) would go from six months to five months. Remember he'll be in Europe this summer, and will no doubt be reading from the world book so that is basically a tour in of itself; anything he does after its release would likely be US based.
Cornballer
Member
- NY Times: George R. R. Martin Wants More Game of Thrones, Too
Much more via the link - most of it tv show discussion. That's just the relevant quote with respect to ASoIaF.
Basileus777
Member
Some people do think that! See all the anger and blame his editor gets as if she has the power to do much more than give GRRM suggestions.
I think he will ultimately defeat the bulk of the Bolton/Frey host, the one being lead by Ramsay to the crofter's village. As for Winterfell, it will be taken by the other Northern families who conspired against Roose and the Freys. I like the theory that recalls Davos's description of a large Manderly host at White Harbor, which has yet to materialize. I think it shows up at Winterfell and helps liberate it from Roose. When Stannis arrives with his diminished army, the Northern lords will deny him outright, pledging fealty to the King in North (whoever that ends up being). He'll limp back to the Nightfort at that point where I think his story takes a much darker turn. He may survive, but I don't think he'll be human anymore.
I actually like that a good bit, it would seem very possible given the fact that the north gives no fucks about the Red God and its prophecies. Him refusing to rescue the North when the Walkers come south as a result could be interesting.
bodyofanamerican
Member
All these Stannis theories are super interesting. I always took "break before he bends" as he'd die before compromising. But maybe heaping all that betrayal on him (Davos is responsible for the North abandoning him) causes him to "break" in a totally different way and side with the enemies of the realm in order to claim it.
Incandenza
Banned
Editors are as useful as nipples on a breastplate, thought George as he started WordStar. If I look back, I am lost.
I agree man. It felt the most Robert Jordan-esque, in a good way. He also clearly enjoyed having the time to write all about the state of Westeros at this point in the series. Brienne is also a winner in my book. I can see why people hated dealing with her POV so much but once you embrace it, it's not bad.
That was definitely who I was thinking of when I was reading it. It felt like a much needed calm after ASOS and I very much enjoyed the High Sparrow sub-plot and Cersei's (further?) descent into madness.
Brienne's chapters were fine to me once I took them for the world-building chapters they were she was pretty much a window into what was happening post-war. Not to mention the side characters she met had some of the best monologues in the entire book if not the entire series for me.
Incandenza
Banned
Feast contains Martin's best prose in the whole series. Arya's chapters especially.
It is a great book. I only really liked it after the second read. This book is bad only if one had to wait years for it.
Luckily it is much better.
Brienne had better prose, quality-wise, in my opinion, even if the first two Brienne chapters were a slog. The septon's tale about War of the Ninepenny Kings was great stuff.
Beyonce Beytwice
Member
Victarion's ADWD chapters, IMO. Pure poetry.
But Arya's are definitely stunning, too.
That's the one I was talking about! It was so beautiful.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Indeed. It's clear from the beginning, especially that first Hotah chapter where you see Doran Martell.
I'll read it but I'm waiting a while before I do. I still didn't read Princess and the Queen.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Of course.
Absolutely, I loved the princess and the queen my only wish is that we got it in novel form.
I'm not, I just haven't read it yet because I like knowing I have something ASOIAF that I haven't read yet that I can read at any time I want. Once I'm done with both of those I have no idea when I'll be able to read TWoW.Ah, you're waiting for the unabriged versions in GRRM's Fire & Blood.
Incandenza
Banned
Man, I've had so much of "Mercy" spoiled for me in the past couple weeks. Wondering if I should just say screw it and read the preview chapters.
HOMEBOY OVER HERE
Banned
did they consult Martin? I haven't read the books but they must be working close together if they killed him off in the show when the book series isn't complete. what if he was to make an appearance in the unreleased books?
Doesn't it kind of disprove the theory? If the paste bit were important then surely the show would've followed with it? Chances are he's probably dead and I guess it doesn't fully disprove it.
That was probably the last GoT episode I watch until TWOW comes out. I don't know if it's a spoiler but I don't want to run the risk of it next year with them potentially struggling for material next season.
Anyone else like me?
EDIT: They don't really check with Martin other than major stuff I think. Chances are Jojen is dead/about to die in the books anyway, so this probably doesn't affect too much.
That was probably the last GoT episode I watch until TWOW comes out. I don't know if it's a spoiler but I don't want to run the risk of it next year with them potentially struggling for material next season.
Anyone else like me?
EDIT: They don't really check with Martin other than major stuff I think. Chances are Jojen is dead/about to die in the books anyway, so this probably doesn't affect too much.
Martin reads every script before they shoot.
If it's thematically important that Bran eat a friend to log into the Winternet, then he still has Meera. If it were thematically or plotically important for Jojen to come out the other side of that cave in the books, they wouldn't have explicitly killed him.
At the very least, we know he isn't one of the heads of the dragon now.
CitizenVectron
Member
In the show they'll probably just skip the paste stuff and say he has an in-born ability to become a tree thing. It's not a big deal.
A Human Becoming
More than a Member
That's what I expect. In the books Jojen's death seemed imminent no matter what.
I'm debating this. Sansa and Bran are caught up to the books.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Yup, me too.
Here's what I'll do: I have reader friends who have decided to go on watching. So, after S5 finished airing, I'll ask them if there are any post-ADWD scenes, and if so, then I'll wait for TWoW. If not, I'll binge watch S5 on Blu-ray.
Since I'm fully expecting S5 to cover material from TWoW, I find the former case to be more likely, though. As A Human Becoming said above, Bran and Sansa are pretty much caught up, and Brienne will likely go beyond ADWD too.
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