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A Song of Ice and Fire -- **Unmarked Spoilers For All Books including ADWD**

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F

foxtrot3d

Banned
Purple Cheeto said:
Because its a fantasy novel with magic and prophecies and a good fantasy author doesn't waste pages with useless descriptions of things that are largely irrelevant to the larger plot.

Oh.



Is he gonna keep some in reserve and wait to sell them at a higher price after they've been water damaged?
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1. It's called misdirection.

2. That still doesn't mean every dream is a prophecy. Typically they are used to convey the emotional state of a character. Do you really think that Tyrion will end up riding a dragon fighting beside Bittersteel and have two heads and during a battle he'll slay Jaimie and Tywin? No. The point of the dream was to convey Tyrion's emotional state, his love and hatred for his brother, and his drive to get vengeance.
 
M

Mr. Wonderful

Member
bengraven said:
http://www.accesshollywood.com/geor...ones-s5-and-the-winds-of-winter_video_2706537

Great interview with GRRM. She's awkward but he's giving out info.

Including this very BIG SPOILER:
OSHA WILL BE IN WOW!

Also, GRRM tweeted:

cWCGdTh.png


I like that he has his own Tolkien-like "brand" now.
Click to expand...

Yes, let's all buy an incomplete box set!
 
I

Incandenza

Banned
I wonder if Winds will be out before Rothfuss's Doors of Stone. I haven't read Kingkiller yet but I feel like you don't see nearly as much complaining about that one from the fantasy community even though the wait for it has been even longer.
 
Y

Yonafunu

Member
Incandenza said:
I wonder if Winds will be out before Rothfuss's Doors of Stone. I haven't read Kingkiller yet but I feel like you don't see nearly as much complaining about that one from the fantasy community even though the wait for it has been even longer.
Click to expand...

That's because Kingkiller sucks.
 
B

Brakke

Banned
Paganmoon said:
I think he's hinting at the possibility that it actually IS the complete set:)
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The nightmare lives!! ;_;

Incandenza said:
I wonder if Winds will be out before Rothfuss's Doors of Stone. I haven't read Kingkiller yet but I feel like you don't see nearly as much complaining about that one from the fantasy community even though the wait for it has been even longer.
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That's because Kingkiller 1 was good and full of promise then Kingkiller 2 was a real letdown. GRR Martin has a better-than-even run on quality, Rothfuss could go either way.

Plus the investment in GRR is huge at this point. I've read how many thousands of pages over a few years; some people have been following Ice and Fire for a ages. Ice and Fire has a dozen open threads I'd like to see through, Kingkiller has like two.
 
V

Veelk

Banned
Brakke said:
The nightmare lives!! ;_;

That's because Kingkiller 1 was good and full of promise then Kingkiller 2 was a real letdown. GRR Martin has a better-than-even run on quality, Rothfuss could go either way.

Plus the investment in GRR is huge at this point. I've read how many thousands of pages over a few years; some people have been following Ice and Fire for a ages. Ice and Fire has a dozen open threads I'd like to see through, Kingkiller has like two.
Click to expand...

Ice and Fire also has a TV show. It wasn't nearly so big when it was just a bunch of books. Allegedly, they have a TV show in the works for KKC, though I haven't seen anything else on it. But you can't expect a relatively new series with no adaptations to have as much publicity as Ice and Fire.

Kingkiller isn't as famous is pretty much the root of it. Don't worry, once it is, people will start complaining about the women in being bitches, how OP the main character is, and various other dumb stuff.
 
R

Rei_Toei

Fclvat sbe Pnanqn, ru?
There's an other edition too, right, with house sigils sorta stamped in? That one looked way cooler then this new set.
 
N

NeoGiff

Member
Elio confirmed on Twitter that this is the "controversial" chapter they've referenced in the past.

His reasoning for it being controversial is:

Basically just the sudden burgeoning appearance of Alayne's sexuality, and that that focus happens w/o reference to a certain other character.
Click to expand...

To be honest, I was expecting a lot more judging by their comments.
 
B

Basileus777

Member
NeoGiff said:
Elio confirmed on Twitter that this is the "controversial" chapter they've referenced in the past.

His reasoning for it being controversial is:



To be honest, I was expecting a lot more judging by their comments.
Click to expand...

They way he hedged his comments after that first initial one already gave me the impression that it wasn't much of a controversy.
 
W

WaffleTaco

Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
"Controversial" my ass. It did read like build up though, and I am guessing after Harry and her are wed, Sweet Robin will die.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Haven't read the chapter or Elio's new explanation yet but a year ago he clarified that he meant Harry The Heir would be controversial to a certain group of fans (likely SanSan fangirls), not that "something controversial happens to Sansa."
 
K

Kain

Member
Just read it and it was nothing special. Then again, I don't know if this is the full chapter or something is missing at the end.
 
I

Iksenpets

Banned
NeoGiff said:
Elio confirmed on Twitter that this is the "controversial" chapter they've referenced in the past.

His reasoning for it being controversial is:



To be honest, I was expecting a lot more judging by their comments.
Click to expand...

Sample spoilers:
That's supposed to be controversial?? Nothing about that was struck me as out of place, in terms of sexuality. Myranda is raunchy, but Sansa never really thinks anything besides him being handsome and trying to be flirtatious. I guess maybe SanSan people will be distraught that the books are continuing to move away from that, but those people are crazy. I wish he would've made it clear that it would only be controversial to crazy people.

Kain said:
Just read it and it was nothing special. Then again, I don't know if this is the full chapter or something is missing at the end.
Click to expand...

It's just set up, so nothing too interesting. I think the dialogue was pretty fun though.
 
K

Kain

Member
Iksenpets said:
It's just set up, so nothing too interesting. I think the dialogue was pretty fun though.
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Myranda is your typical loudmouth and yes, some of the dialog is actually funny, Sansa is starting to loosen up, but that's it.

Judderman said:
Sansa x Sandor, just stop your exploration of the subject at that.

I haven't read an except till now, won't start with this one.
Click to expand...

I was gonna ask "is that a thing?", but this is the internet and I've learned my lesson.
 
F

foxtrot3d

Banned
Iksenpets said:
Yeah, some kind of formatting issue must've happened when they copied it out of GRRM's ancient word processor and pasted it on the site, and I guessno one read the whole thing through on the site before taking it live.
Click to expand...

Yup. In any event, as someone else noted on the ASOIF subreddit the chapter was refreshing and surprising in that it included less filler, less set-up with more meat and potatoes. I feel like if this was AFFC this would have taken at least two or three chapters, my jaw nearly dropped when it transitioned
from the opening set up scene straight away to the dinner feast and dance
.
 
H

Hasphat'sAnts

Member
Basileus777 said:
You're just a year or so off from knowing how long the wait for Jon/Dany/Tyrion was between ASOS and ADWD.
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Pretty sure Jon, Tyrion, and Dany all had preview chapters posted before 2011, so it's on par at this point.

I think the gap between actually published dates for Sansa chapters will for sure overtake Jon chapters.
 
B

Basileus777

Member
Hasphat'sAnts said:
Pretty sure Jon, Tyrion, and Dany all had preview chapters posted before 2011, so it's on par at this point.

I think the gap between actually published dates for Sansa chapters will for sure overtake Jon chapters.
Click to expand...

It's pretty crazy. Before you brought this up, I had actually forgotten that there were no Sansa chapters in ADWD.
 
Y

You Know Nothing

Member
I enjoyed it. Quite a bit funnier than a typical chapter. The line likening
being honorable to being blind and stupid kept it a bit too real.

I was a bit disconcerted when food descriptions didn't pop up until near the end. But at least a
lemon cake
made an appearance.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Did that chapter remind anyone else of the first book (typos aside)? The pageantry on display really hasn't been that heavy since the first book, outside of weddings. It has a...fun atmosphere that feels so divorced from where the rest of Westeros/Essos is right now (war and chaos). But we get just a minor glimpse of that with Littlefinger plotting to inflate Vale food prices as winter comes.

I liked it. I liked how natural her playing of the game was. Holding a tourney and creating a guard of knights for Robin is such a Sansa idea...and pretty damn smart.

The thing about Corbray being salty was interesting. If he's truly upset, wouldn't it be interesting if he got into some type of conflict with Harry, and "accidentally" killed or injured him?
 
P

Purple Cheeto

Member
Another filler chapter that was rightfully cut from ADWD. The Reek chapter has been the only good cut material so far, everything else has been George at his worst.
 
M

M.Bluth

Member
Purple Cheeto said:
Another filler chapter that was rightfully cut from ADWD. The Reek chapter has been the only good cut material so far, everything else has been George at his worst.
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Really? I liked Reek's, but I also found Victarion's chapter to be a nice build up chapter. Tyrion's chapter was exciting. Mercy's was a very fun read. The remaining two were middling, perhaps, but "Geroge at his worst" is quite the overstatement.


Besides, I'd rather read the bigger, the "non-filler" if you will, chapters when the entire book is released.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
I'm curious and have never gotten a decent answer: what does filler mean? This is her first chapter in TWOW (and would have been her first chapter in ADWD), what type of plot development do you expect in a first chapter? It establishes the scene and plot points for her arc. You know...like a first chapter or episode is supposed to do...
 
P

Purple Cheeto

Member
PhoenixDark said:
I'm curious and have never gotten a decent answer: what does filler mean? This is her first chapter in TWOW (and would have been her first chapter in ADWD), what type of plot development do you expect in a first chapter? It establishes the scene and plot points for her arc. You know...like a first chapter or episode is supposed to do...
Click to expand...

80% descriptions of stuff that have no bearing on anything and do nothing but pad the word count is a good place to start. The fact that you could probably lop 3/4 of the text of this chapter off and lose nothing as well. It doesn't have to all be big reveals or battles, but I do expect more than padding, alas George has become a master of padding.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Purple Cheeto said:
80% descriptions of stuff that have no bearing on anything and do nothing but pad the word count is a good place to start. The fact that you could probably lop 3/4 of the text of this chapter off and lose nothing as well. It doesn't have to all be big reveals or battles, but I do expect more than padding, alas George has become a master of padding.
Click to expand...

If that's your description, it heavily applies to every book in the series. Martin has always been a heavily descriptive writer, especially when it comes to scenes of pageantry - which makes up the majority of that chapter.

There are quite a few plot points in there, I'll list some in a second.
 
H

Hasphat'sAnts

Member
Purple Cheeto said:
80% descriptions of stuff that have no bearing on anything and do nothing but pad the word count is a good place to start. The fact that you could probably lop 3/4 of the text of this chapter off and lose nothing as well. It doesn't have to all be big reveals or battles, but I do expect more than padding, alas George has become a master of padding.
Click to expand...

Pretty sure you can lop off 3/4 of The Road and still not lose much in the way of plot.

Cormac McCarthy at his worst. SMDH!
 
bengraven

bengraven

Member
Wait, Ran said something out of his ass? What devilry is this?

I do think it was a bit jarring to hear
Sansa say "I'm all the spice you'll need". I think I raised an eyebrow. Maybe jarring isn't the word, but more "oh damn, girl, yeah..."

It's an interesting part of the character arc. She wanted a handsome prince to give her gifts and be in charge while she kneels for him in every way. Now if she can get him to love her, she possibly gets the man she's always dreamed about, but SHE'S in charge. He is wrapped around her finger and she runs everything while he just looks pretty and fights who she requests him to fight.
 
R

RobotChant

Member
Read the new chapter and thought it was a bit lackluster, its definitely no "Mercy" for me. That said it looks like there is enough material for a thousand tin foil hats.
There were a few moments where I stopped to contemplate its future significance, if any.

I think Harry will end up dead. A tournament would be convenient for that. Still think Sansa will end up with Sweet Robin and this chapter didn't change my mind
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Just thinking about it was enough to make her head spin. Alayne turned abruptly from the yard… and bumped into a short, sharp-faced man with a brush of orange hair who had come up behind her. His hand shot out and caught her arm before she could fall. “My lady. My pardons if I took you unawares.”

[later]

“Perhaps you will try the melee instead?” Alayne suggested. The melee was an afterthought, a sop for all the brothers, uncles, fathers, and friends who had accompanied the competitors to the Gates of the Moon to see them win their silver wings, but the would be prizes for the champions, and a chance to win ransoms.

“A good melee is all a hedge knight can hope for, unless he stumbles on a bag of dragons. And that’s not likely, is it?”

Seems pretty clear he didn't just show up in the Vale out of coincidence. He knows who she is or is nearly convinced.
 
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