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A Song of Ice and Fire -- **Unmarked Spoilers For All Books including ADWD**

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P

Palette Swap

Member
I just checked the links posted above and there's some good stuff. Jon being AA doesn't seem so far fetched:
-Jon might be AA or might be AA NOW. Let's break down the prophesy:
When the red star bleeds: the idiot knight who took on Wun Wun has a star as a sigil and there's something red about him (hair? forget...) and he's bleeding.
and the darkness gathers: the watch's oath and it's evening.
Azor Ahai shall be born again: getting stabbed to death is a good way to set up being born again.
amidst smoke: Jon notices that his wounds look like they're smoking.
and salt: Bowen Marsh's tears
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Also, as someone mentionned, dying freed Jon of his oath.

zeroshiki said:
Which failed miserably?
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Which is toast, to be more accurate.
 
J

jon bones

hot hot hanuman-on-man action
Acosta said:
"Ser Robert" is obviously the old king, Robert Baratheon as a living dead thing (yes, I'm sure I'm the first one to suspect that, I'm so clever). I can't wait to see the reaction of Cersei to that and I wonder what is the deal with that. At this point I don't understand very well the role of the people who come back from dead, their motivations and so.
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err, Ser Robert is definitely not King Robert Baratheon. It's Gregor Clegane brought back via Qyburn's necromancy.
 
A

Acosta

Member
jon bones said:
err, Ser Robert is definitely not King Robert Baratheon. It's Gregor Clegane brought back via Qyburn's necromancy.
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For all I know, the head of Gregor is in Sunspear. What you says makes more sense though, but I think my theory is funnier, so I'll stick with it.
 
Pollux

Pollux

Member
Amir0x said:
He's not pointless at all. If he is dead - and I feel Melisandre will revive him - it's just another illustration highlighting what Martin has been pounding into our heads throughout the entire novel. That honor never wins in this world.
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OK...Fine, I'll give you the honor thing. But the fact is, if Mel doesn't bring him back, then there was no point in giving him a POV for 4 books. But that's just my personal opinion.
 
J

jon bones

hot hot hanuman-on-man action
zmoney said:
OK...Fine, I'll give you the honor thing. But the fact is, if Mel doesn't bring him back, then there was no point in giving him a POV for 4 books. But that's just my personal opinion.
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no point in giving him a POV for 4 books? through his eyes we learned about the wall, beyond the wall, wildlings, the arc where he is forced to forgo his vows to blend in, ends up falling in love and watching his lover die, great battle scenes, bad ass ghost/raven/longclaw action...

there are more to books than pushing along the plot at your desired pace / direction.

fyi, i don't think he'll stay dead - and i am excited to see him as Azor Ahai reborn, thrusting longclaw into ??? to turn it into the true Lightbringer and murdering undeads with Ghost + Mormont's Raven
 
Pollux

Pollux

Member
jon bones said:
no point in giving him a POV for 4 books? through his eyes we learned about the wall, beyond the wall, wildlings, the arc where he is forced to forgo his vows to blend in, ends up falling in love and watching his lover die, great battle scenes, bad ass ghost/raven/longclaw action...

there are more to books than pushing along the plot at your desired pace / direction.

fyi, i don't think he'll stay dead - and i am excited to see him as Azor Ahai reborn, thrusting longclaw into ??? to turn it into the true Lightbringer and murdering undeads with Ghost + Mormont's Raven
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I agree he's not going to stay dead, I was just venting. I'm back to normal now.
 
K

KingK

Member
bengraven said:
So they hired Asha (now Yara).

http://winter-is-coming.net/

I thought Asha was supposed to be actually hot? Like to the point that she drives Theon lustful, even after finding out she was his sister?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cr3kDAhP9LQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDn38tBoFYU
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No. I don't know where everyone is getting that Asha is supposedly really hot. In Theon's chapter, iirc, he even describes her as rather average looking, and with a weird nose and smaller than desirable tits. She's attractive enough, but not super hot. It's just her personality and Theon's constant desire for sex that makes him hit on her so much.
 
G

gate777

Member
I just finished the book. Bear with me please as I vent.........


HOLY FUCK at the last few chapters.

Jon's last chapter left me even more distraught than the red wedding or Ned's death ever did. If Jon dies all I have to say is that GRRM is one CRUEL S.O.B. I should have seen it coming though since he didn't follow the age old unwritten rules of the WALL and did things his way. Too bad that he locked up Ghost otherwise the wolf would never had allowed Bowen Marsh or Wick Whittlestick stab to him as Wun Wun was causing chaos.

Concerning Cersei, one word is all - GOOD. Her backstabbing and scheming days are over and done with since she was so humiliated being marched through the city, naked in all her droopy glory, back to the red keep like a common whore. All the roar is gone from her and she now purrs like an obedient kitten......

or does she.....?

The epilogue pissed me off BIG TIME. Fucking Varys you dirty snake, with your perfumed pasty skin and your satin slippers. Killing (?) Ser Kevan; was it really necessary? He was the only sane Lannister left, well maybe Jaime is too. Fuck this new Targaryan prince and what's "rightfully his".

All I have to say is the following in an Arya Stark pleading voice:

Queen Cersei, Varys, Roose Bolton, Ramsay Snow, Bowen Marsh, Wick Whittlestick, Ser Ilyn Payne, Hizdahr zo Loraq, Walder Frey and all his kin

Valar Morghulis
 
P

petethepanda

Member
Had a few days for the book to kind of settle in my mind.

I was really loving it for a long while there. Book 1-3 level love. Everything felt like it was moving so fast, all the pieces getting picked up and starting to head towards each other on an insane collision course. Exciting as hell.

It started to lose me with a couple hundred pages left, when it became clear that none of those pieces were actually going to reach anything. It's like Martin pushed his chair back from his desk, dropped his laptop microphone-style, said "peace out" and flipped over the "back in a few years" sign on his window. Books 1-3, while obviously parts of a greater narrative, still had arcs to them, and they all arrived at a natural break point that felt satisfying. ADWD just stops.

Not to mention the fact that many of those pieces not only stop short of getting anywhere (Stannis marching towards Winterfell for the whole damn book and we don't see him get anywhere fuuuuuu) but actually wind up going way off course towards the end, the most infuriating being a) Tyrion doesn't reach Dany and b) Dany going to Westeros is still fucking nowhere in sight.

I didn't mind AFFC, I thought it was necessary after ASOS to kind of "reset the board" and get things on track for the last few books, and I understand that the first 500 pages of ADWD have the same thing going on. But then the next 500 pages are still nothing but setup. Agh.

I really was loving it at first, it just needed something, anything to pay off in the end, even if it's just one person getting from point A to point B. At least kid-we-assume-is-actually-Aegon is doing something.
 
F

fanboi

Banned
Regarding Cersi... and her loss from power, since Varys did what he did (he wanted her to gain back power because she will cause a rebellion instead of uniting all of Westeros), no one can really stop her right now.

If she come out of her praying n shit.
 
D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
Yeah, I'm pretty sure Varys's actions were because Kevan was trying to stabilize relations with the Tyrells, which would secure their hold on the throne. Varys wants a destabilized throne so Aegon can swoop in and capture it. If anyone is sure to fuck everything up, it's Cersei.
 
T

tokkun

Member
If that Jon = AA interpretation of the prophecy is true, it will be the cheapest shit ever.

"Smoke" does not rise from a wound, that's steam. And he is "born amidst salt" because one dude in a crowd of 100 people has a tear on his cheeks?

Meanwhile, it's just a coincidence that Dany has literally woken dragons from stone under an actual red star? I mean, how many times is GRRM going to play this "obvious answer to prophecy is actually a red herring!" card in this series?
 
Freshmaker

Freshmaker

I am Korean.
tokkun said:
If that Jon = AA interpretation of the prophecy is true, it will be the cheapest shit ever.

"Smoke" does not rise from a wound, that's steam. And he is "born amidst salt" because one dude in a crowd of 100 people has a tear on his cheeks?

Meanwhile, it's just a coincidence that Dany has literally woken dragons from stone under an actual red star? I mean, how many times is GRRM going to play this "obvious answer to prophecy is actually a red herring!" card in this series?
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It's telling she got her moon blood back. Star's bleeding.
 
A

apana

Member
Azor Azhai reborn is a combination of Jon Snow, Dany, and someone else (my vote is for Penny). Anyways another prophecy that interests me is one of Old Nan's stories in the first book. She talks about a kid who was able to defeat the White Walkers (Others) by going deep into their land and finding some kind of magical device. I think Bran is going to be the one who fulfills that prophecy. Either him or Jon.
 
K

KuwabaraTheMan

Banned
apana said:
Azor Azhai reborn is a combination of Jon Snow, Dany, and someone else (my vote is for Penny). Anyways another prophecy that interests me is one of Old Nan's stories in the first book. She talks about a kid who was able to defeat the White Walkers (Others) by going deep into their land and finding some kind of magical device. I think Bran is going to be the one who fulfills that prophecy. Either him or Jon.
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Yeah, I was struck by some allusions to Bran in the Last Hero story when I did my re-read a few months ago. The story goes out of its way to mention the hero's friends, horse and dog all dying, which would seem like a pointless detail unless its foreshadowing the deaths of all of Bran's companions in the near future (with Hodor as the horse and Summer as the dog).

I think Bran could actually potentially be Azor Ahai Reborn himself, but even if he isn't, he's going to have a big role to play in that story.
 
V

Veelk

Banned
tokkun said:
"Smoke" does not rise from a wound, that's steam. And he is "born amidst salt" because one dude in a crowd of 100 people has a tear on his cheeks?
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There were probably more people crying. Hell, dany's prophecy works because the salt was her tears and her tears alone. Can't deny Jon this without denying Dany as well.

As for the smoke...lol. Someone is missing the obvious implications :p
 
G

Gamer @ Heart

Member
"When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east," Quentyn Martell's death, he is the sun

That right there is awesome. I dont give a shit if nothing comes from it. The goosebumps i got reading are why i enjoy this series and the discussions afterward
 
A

apana

Member
cubanb said:
I wish I could take over writing for this guy. I could wrap it up so quick yo!
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In some ways not a lot happens over the course of each book because there are so many characters that George focuses on. I enjoyed the Jaime, Cersei, and Brienne chapters in AFFC and ADWD but I'm getting a little bit tired of the Ironborn and some of the other riff raff like Arianne or Quentyn Martell. Though I guess I wont have too many Quentyn Martell chapters from now on. I understand those characters are kind of interesting in their own way but something will probably need to be cut now that there are only two books left. I know this wont be a popular opinion but I am personally bored with the Dany chapters since Storm of Swords and now especially in ADWD. I noticed how much more interesting the whole situation in Mereen was from Barristan's point of view. I would sooner get rid of her chapters and actually keep a few of the side characters, but I know that's not a realistic possiblity so the side characters are going to need to be cut. Also I'd add more Bran chapters.
 
T

tokkun

Member
Generic said:
As for the smoke...lol. Someone is missing the obvious implications :p
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What are the implications? That it's real smoke because the wounds were made by some other jerk with a flaming sword? I don't even remember the smoking wounds passage from the book.
 
A

apana

Member
KuwabaraTheMan said:
Yeah, I was struck by some allusions to Bran in the Last Hero story when I did my re-read a few months ago. The story goes out of its way to mention the hero's friends, horse and dog all dying, which would seem like a pointless detail unless its foreshadowing the deaths of all of Bran's companions in the near future (with Hodor as the horse and Summer as the dog).

I think Bran could actually potentially be Azor Ahai Reborn himself, but even if he isn't, he's going to have a big role to play in that story.
Click to expand...

I've thought for a long while now that all the Starks except for maybe Rickon are going to die. Bran is going to be the last Stark who survives and makes it all the way deep into the land of Always Winter and comes face to face with whatever is causing the White Walkers to awaken from their slumber. I think it will be an actual creature/person. Perhaps he will be able to communicate with the other Starks near the end. Maybe he can also serve as a medium for the old Kings in the North since he is now technically King in the North.
 
B

Brera

Banned
AcciDante said:
I can't understand why anyone would read a book/series where they were skipping chapters because they didn't like them. If you can't read the book, just don't read it. I don't want to speak for everyone, but I can't see many people caring about what you have to say about the book if you're missing chunks of it...
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I wouldn't skip chapters in a normal book.

But ASOIAF is structured in such a way that you can skip Dany and miss very little IMO.

I'm going to listen to it again now in full for the sake of completion but Dany needs to be killed off or made a complete sideshow. She's a waste of pages. I could have been reading more Theon, Bran, Jon or Jamie chapters of fuckawesomeness!

Bran was criminally under represented in ADWD! After the first 25% he was never seen again!

I love the titles for the next two books, The Winds of Winter and A Dream of Spring.

They're gonna be fucking EPIC!
 
H

Hasphat'sAnts

Member
Brera said:
I wouldn't skip chapters in a normal book.

But ASOIAF is structured in such a way that you can skip Dany and miss very little IMO.

I'm going to listen to it again now in full for the sake of completion but Dany needs to be killed off or made a complete sideshow. She's a waste of pages. I could have been reading more Theon, Bran, Jon or Jamie chapters of fuckawesomeness!

Bran was criminally under represented in ADWD! After the first 25% he was never seen again!

I love the titles for the next two books, The Winds of Winter and A Dream of Spring.

They're gonna be fucking EPIC!
Click to expand...

But then you'd miss Barristan Selmy kicking ass and taking names like he was set up to do for 4 goddamn books.

And even though Quentyn's the Nikki and Paolo of ASoIaF, his story rounds out nicely at the end.
 
V

Veelk

Banned
tokkun said:
What are the implications? That it's real smoke because the wounds were made by some other jerk with a flaming sword? I don't even remember the smoking wounds passage from the book.
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Who is the only other one who had smoking wounds?
 
U

ultron87

Member
Finished last night.

*write book for 6 years*

*don't finish half the plots in the book*

MartinTrollFace.jpg

Need to process in mind some more to have a more thought out opinion.
 
T

thestopsign

Member
The sun rising in the west could be Aegon, while the sun setting in the east could be Quentyn. Might finally be time Dany heads to Westeros, hopefully, maybe, eh... who am I kidding.
 
S

scosher

Member
Generic said:
Who is the only other one who had smoking wounds?
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Victarion was described to have smoking wounds after Moqorro's healing. Drogon was described to have smoking wounds when Dany recollects her flight from Meereen.

Either way, that's two other instances in ADWD where "smoking wounds" doesn't just mean "steaming wounds from the cold air." So there are implications that Jon's wounds are not natural.

My guess is that with the obvious connection between smoke and fire in both instances, Melisandre interfered in some way and cast some shadow protection on Jon, knowing of his imminent danger (the same way she can look for imminent danger to her self). And that the "cold night air" is just misdirection by GRRM to make us debate over the next 3 years whether there was any sorcery involved here.
 
Pollux

Pollux

Member
Gamer @ Heart said:
"When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east," Quentyn Martell's death, he is the sun

That right there is awesome. I dont give a shit if nothing comes from it. The goosebumps i got reading are why i enjoy this series and the discussions afterward
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mind blown. This actually makes a lot of sense. Maybe I just completely missed this, but wow lol.
 
B

BeeDog

Member
Finished the book today. Overall, it was good, though it had too many pacing issues for me to rate it over AFfC. As many have said, Bran was criminally underrated, and Dany's chapters took too long to get... nowhere really. All the other characters were excellent (except for Arya's and Tyrion's chapters which I found merely okay). For some stupid reason, I really liked Barristan's chapters, but all other characters were good. Theon's chapters were awesome too, and Kevan's chapter was a fucking great way to end the book.

I truly hope GRRM won't take too long with the sixth book.
 
D

duckroll

Member
elrechazao said:
Nobody stays dead, they're all coming baaaaaaaaaaaack.

Except ned, because he'd just get himself killed again stupidly.
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No, Ned's coming back as a talking head. Probably unwillingly advising Euron after being brought back by dark magic!

I'm so sorry I even suggested that. :(
 
D

dabig2

Member
elrechazao said:
Nobody stays dead, they're all coming baaaaaaaaaaaack.

Except ned, because he'd just get himself killed again stupidly.
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Ned and Robert are both coming back. Not as rulers, but as ass-kicking dead soldiers in what I could only describe as ASoIaF's version of a buddy comedy set during a war.

It writes itself!
 
L

Levi

Banned
Freshmaker said:
It's telling she got her moon blood back. Star's bleeding.
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She never stopped having periods. When she discovers all the blood on her thighs, she starts tracking the dates of her past few periods. Barren does not mean menopause, at least in this case. I think the fact that she thinks she might be late for her period, combined with the heavier than usual flow and corresponding weakness, means she is miscarrying in that scene.
 
L

LocoMrPollock

Banned
VsRobot said:
She never stopped having periods. When she discovers all the blood on her thighs, she starts tracking the dates of her past few periods. Barren does not mean menopause, at least in this case. I think the fact that she thinks she might be late for her period, combined with the heavier than usual flow and corresponding weakness, means she is miscarrying in that scene.
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Thats how I took it as well.
 
Z

ZephyrFate

Banned
Arment said:
Can anyone expand on why Bloodraven is the Three Eyed Crow?
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Bloodraven is described as having "a thousand eyes and one" in the novellas, and the Greenseer tells Bran that "I have watched you for a long time, watched you with a thousand eyes and one."

Bloodraven also has only one eye, working with the "thousand eyes AND ONE" part.
 
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