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A Song of Ice and Fire -- **Unmarked Spoilers For All Books including ADWD**
- Thread starter Pollux
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ZephyrFate
Banned
It's because this is who Bloodraven is: He is a bastard son of Aegon the Unworthy ; he killed Damon (sp.) Blackfyre supporting Daeron the Good; he weilds the Valyrian sword 'Dark Sister' that Visenya wielded; he was then Hand of the King, and supposedly a very bad one (I think it was Connington or Tyrion who mentioned he was a sorceror); then he was imprisoned, presumably for doing such a horrible job as Hand; he was then sent to wall as part of Aemon's escort and eventually became Lord Commander of Nights Watch.BeeDog said:Can anyone explain why Bloodraven being the three-eyed crow is significant to the plot? What's his actual backstory and how does it connect to the other depicted events? Never quite got that, to be honest.
ZephyrFate said:
horrible job as The Hand? I don't remember reading about that. I thought he was described as being highly effective, but creepy as all hell. People resented him for being a bastard and the hand of the king and people feared him for being so effective and seeming to know everything. They thought he was a witch. I thought that was the reason why, he fell out of favor at court because he acquired too much power and people were simply afraid of him
elrechazado
Banned
He was an amazing hand of the king. was ruthless and effective and basically ran the realm and shut down many rebellions, dealt with plagues, etc.ZephyrFate said:
AcciDante said:
The red wedding had an awesome build up.
Grey wind being restless and violent at the sight of the Freys confirmed to me that shit was going to go down. How awesome that shit was going to be could not be predicted.
When Ghost got restless in the last Jon chapter, I knew awesome shit was going to down!
PhoenixDark
Banned
AcciDante said:
Damn. This post gave me goosebumps.
BeeDog said:Can anyone explain why Bloodraven being the three-eyed crow is significant to the plot? What's his actual backstory and how does it connect to the other depicted events? Never quite got that, to be honest.
It connects to the Dunk & Egg novellas. So far it seems like more of an easter egg for those readers than anything of plot significance in the main story.
GeneralHerpes
Member
can someone explain Joff's motivation for wanting to send the footpad to kill Bran? i was never really clear on that. i'm at the beginning of ADWD (yay Tyrion's back!), & not reading anything from this thread yet, so if spoilers from that book explain it later on i'd appreciate someone just yelling at me to not be so darn impatient
FutureZombie
Banned
AcciDante said:
The back and forth between Catelyne and Arya chapters was crazy. And then the description of the music being played. Holy shit, I was shaking reading all of it!
GeneralHerpes said:
Wanting to impress and get some praise from his Dad. Robert, understandably, pretty much ignored the kid, but like all kids, he wanted his dad to praise/notice him.
Of course, Robert never said that someone should go and murder Bran, he said something like "I could never live like that, clinging to live and being a cripple. Id rather be put out of my misery. give me a good clean death".
So, Joff, being a psycho and all, took that as his pops would praise him for hiring someone to murder a 10 yearold kid
ZephyrFate
Banned
ah, I guess I'm wrong.elrechazao said:
elrechazado
Banned
Well, depending on what you mean, he was a "bad" hand in the way that tywin lannister was - respected and feared and hated, but lethally effective. He's quite the badass in the last dunk and egg story when he crushes the rebellion and tells the lord to tear down his castle.ZephyrFate said:
So Bran's new friend is Bloodraven who was a sorcerer that once ruled the seven kingdoms? Why was he interested in the Starks? I fear he may actually be a bad guy, I'm wondering how Jojen and Meera knew about him and knew to take Bran to him. Also anyone want to tell me what each of Bran's visions mean, what is he witnessing in each one. I know one of them is Ned and Lyanna fighting as kids.
apana said:
He is interested in the Starks because of Bran and because he is/was the last greenseer, he knew Bran would become a crazy powerful one as well. That is why he took interest in the Stark family since he wanted Bran to be born and survive and I guess see what person he was turning into.
Jojen might or might not have known about him. I doubt he knew it was bloodraven who was the 3 eyed crow, but if he did, it is from his green dreams.
A lot of Bran's tree visions are from the crazy distant past that we have no knowledge of
John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
Just finished the book. Where does all this Bloodraven business come from? Did I miss that name being used in the book? I never read any of the prequels/spinoffs.
John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
Gonaria said:
Got it. So as just a book reader, I'm not suppose to know yet who the weirwood/crow man is? Are all these side stories collected in one book I can buy or download? Maybe ill check it out if the consensus is they are good
platypotamus
Member
Gonaria said:
Ever since Bran started using his tree powers in this book, I've wondered if these "green dreams" aren't a power of Jojen's, but rather messages sent somehow by this tree guy (Blood Raven apparently), and perhaps Bran will be able to send messages to certain people.
John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
Harry Potter said:
wait, did I not realize the whole time that the bard in Winterfell was Mance? WTF, now I feel like an idiot. The timing of that didnt seem to make sense, how'd he get there and installed so fast? How did he even know "Arya" was being kept there with Ramsay? I thought the bard and his women were there as the Boltons arrived. Unless I'm reading this wrong.
elrechazado
Banned
Remember the bael the bard in winterfell story? Abel the bard in winterfell was an anagram of that. Also suggests that mance/abel is hiding in the crypts.John Harker said:
The entire north knew that ramsay was going to winterfell to marry arya stark, because the warden of the north sent out the word to every vassal of the north to come there to basically pay homage. Mance would have easily found out from the first person he met on the kingsroad.
John Harker said:
They are very good, and definitely worth it. Sadly, they are not collected in 1 book, but either sold separately as novellas or in collection of short stories. I don't know if the old ones available in any ebook format. You can 'download' them though if you search a bit
elrechazado
Banned
The fire sword is the rust sword hodor uses. It is known.GaryD said:
That, or the prophecy was mistranslated. The valyrian word for fire sword actually translates to frog spear. Meera is azor ahai.
LocoMrPollock
Banned
Gonaria said:
Not cool dude.
You can buy them on amazon.
elrechazado
Banned
Let's assume he meant you can download them onto your nook or kindle through your local library's legit ebook program.LocoMrPollock said:
John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
elrechazao said:
Yah that's what I was asking and he was being kind enough to answer.
I bought DWD hardcover because I need to quickly and often reference the maps and character Appendix and I find that annoying to do on my nook, but damn that book is a beast and I never brought it out of the house with me. Back to downloads!
elrechazado
Banned
I don't know offhand, but google can tell you quick which collections and anthologies and other sources you can legitimately find the dunk and egg stories at. Totally worth reading.John Harker said:
HowardRoark
Member
jon bones said:
Speaking of shadow assasins, her logic never made any sense at all as to why she would be unleashing new darkness and yet not be an agent of darkness/evil.
platypotamus
Member
jon bones said:
No probably about it.
I can't believe people didn't know they were boinking.
platypotamus said:
I knew they were but I thought it was more of a one time thing to produce shadow babies. I didn't realize they kept it up afterwards. Apparently she is very beautiful so Stannis is lucky but he doesn't seem to be any happier as a result. I've always wondered if Melisandre actually is a beautiful woman, I get the feeling she can change her appearance.
John Harker said:
I can't believe how many people missed this. Wasn't it enough to tip you off when one of the spearwives called Theon a "kneeler?" Only the free folk use that term.
As to how they could have known, every lord in the North received word/summons from the Boltons about the wedding, so a lot of people knew. It's not too unbelievable for Mance to learn from some passerby about "Arya" being at Winterfell.
I'm wondering if Mance knows that "Arya" isn't Arya though. He was in Winterfell for Robert's feast and saw all of Ned's kids, including Arya. I would assume someone as sharp as Mance would be able to tell that Jeyne doesn't really resemble Arya.
John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
KingK said:
I noticed they acted and spoke like wildlings, but I never thought it was Mance and his spearwives. I just didn't get the timing of it, I thought Bolton was at Winterfell before Mance was freed. Yet I was under the impression the bard and his girls were squatters in the ruins of Winterfell. I didn't think it possible for them to get there so quickly, especially when they weren't even able to catch the Karstark girl on the road (whom he was originally suppose to bring safely back to the Wall). Why did Mance let that girl go past him them?
John Harker said:
I'm pretty sure Mance was released well before Boltons and co. moved up to Winterfell. Plus, it's only a couple days ride down the Kingsraod from Castle Black to Winterfell, iirc.
Not sure why Mance would have let Alys Karstark go by. It's possible he never met her and just heard about Boltons going to Winterfell for the wedding and headed straight there. It would be easy for Mance and 6 spearwives to reach Winterfell before Bolton and a huge army.
platypotamus
Member
q_q said:
It's a little debatable that a guy who snuck into one feast in Winterfell would recognize the former steward's daughter, considering all the other folks at the feast, but maybe a little less so that he would be able to negatively ID "Arya".
Re-posting from the spoiler-marked thread--I just finished ADWD today and need to get some thoughts out.
Re: Jon's final chapter: After re-reading it, this seems like a classic Brienne-style GRRM way to make you think a character's dead. It also reminds me of the axe hitting Arya's head in ASOS, when it's really just the flat of the axe. My best guess is that the Wildlings managed to fight off the attackers in time to save Jon's life, although he will now be a cripple ("he didn't feel the fourth knife"). Jon is simply too important to the story and there's a consistent logic to who GRRM kills off and when--either they're a minor character, or he's been planning it for a long time and there are widespread implications to the death. Jon simply isn't that important (in terms of the overall world of Westeros) and his death wouldn't be felt in the wider world. I'm not saying that the murder plot was illogical or anything like that (in fact, he kind of deserved to be relieved of duty--his leadership had been completely corrupted by his idealism and uncontrollable urges to get involved in the wars), I just think that he'll give Jon a better death than that.
Daenerys: It'll be very interesting to see how GRRM handles getting the dragons and Daenerys to Westeros, because taking them via ship is simply not a realistic option IMO barring Victarion coming to control the dragons via the magical horn. She'll have to tame them, which is where I think this is clearly headed.
She'll train Drogon up, come back and unleash hell in Meereen at a point of extreme danger (saving her buddies in the process), and FINALLY bring her army and dragons to Westeros, presumably to join up with Aegon and Jon Connington... If she can manage to get her whole force over to Westeros (Unsullied, sellswords, Tyrion, Daario, Dothraki, Brazen Beasts, Ser "Grandfather", Victarion, red priests, and DRAGONS)... wow. But inevitably GRRM will kill off some of these characters along the way.
OVERALL IMPRESSIONS OF ADWD: I was trucking along, dying to find out what happened to Stannis, Tyrion, Jaime, Brienne, Asha, Bran, yada yada yada... and the pages started running out and I realized that a lot of plot lines would not be resolved. Those damn appendices fool me every time! *shakes fist at GRRM* I turned the page onto the first page of the epilogue, and was very bummed... although he ends it with a bang with the deaths of Kevan and Pycelle.
I was particularly bummed about not finding out what happened to Jaime, because he goes off with Brienne so early in the book, and he's clearly in MORTAL DANGER unless Brienne managed to escape on her own. I also have to say, I like the way GRRM handled the Stannis/Mance/Ramsay situation, creating all kinds of interesting possibilities and theories to keep us guessing until TWOW comes out.
Overall, I loved ADWD... and I think it had its intended effect: I am absolutely DYING for TWOW to be released to find out what happens next. Well done, George.
Initial ranking after just finishing ADWD:
ASOS>AGOT>>>ACOK=ADWD>AFFC
They're all great though IMO. Some stupendously amazing and serious shit is guaranteed to go down in The Winds of Winter.
Re: Jon's final chapter: After re-reading it, this seems like a classic Brienne-style GRRM way to make you think a character's dead. It also reminds me of the axe hitting Arya's head in ASOS, when it's really just the flat of the axe. My best guess is that the Wildlings managed to fight off the attackers in time to save Jon's life, although he will now be a cripple ("he didn't feel the fourth knife"). Jon is simply too important to the story and there's a consistent logic to who GRRM kills off and when--either they're a minor character, or he's been planning it for a long time and there are widespread implications to the death. Jon simply isn't that important (in terms of the overall world of Westeros) and his death wouldn't be felt in the wider world. I'm not saying that the murder plot was illogical or anything like that (in fact, he kind of deserved to be relieved of duty--his leadership had been completely corrupted by his idealism and uncontrollable urges to get involved in the wars), I just think that he'll give Jon a better death than that.
Daenerys: It'll be very interesting to see how GRRM handles getting the dragons and Daenerys to Westeros, because taking them via ship is simply not a realistic option IMO barring Victarion coming to control the dragons via the magical horn. She'll have to tame them, which is where I think this is clearly headed.
She'll train Drogon up, come back and unleash hell in Meereen at a point of extreme danger (saving her buddies in the process), and FINALLY bring her army and dragons to Westeros, presumably to join up with Aegon and Jon Connington... If she can manage to get her whole force over to Westeros (Unsullied, sellswords, Tyrion, Daario, Dothraki, Brazen Beasts, Ser "Grandfather", Victarion, red priests, and DRAGONS)... wow. But inevitably GRRM will kill off some of these characters along the way.
OVERALL IMPRESSIONS OF ADWD: I was trucking along, dying to find out what happened to Stannis, Tyrion, Jaime, Brienne, Asha, Bran, yada yada yada... and the pages started running out and I realized that a lot of plot lines would not be resolved. Those damn appendices fool me every time! *shakes fist at GRRM* I turned the page onto the first page of the epilogue, and was very bummed... although he ends it with a bang with the deaths of Kevan and Pycelle.
I was particularly bummed about not finding out what happened to Jaime, because he goes off with Brienne so early in the book, and he's clearly in MORTAL DANGER unless Brienne managed to escape on her own. I also have to say, I like the way GRRM handled the Stannis/Mance/Ramsay situation, creating all kinds of interesting possibilities and theories to keep us guessing until TWOW comes out.
Overall, I loved ADWD... and I think it had its intended effect: I am absolutely DYING for TWOW to be released to find out what happens next. Well done, George.
Initial ranking after just finishing ADWD:
ASOS>AGOT>>>ACOK=ADWD>AFFC
They're all great though IMO. Some stupendously amazing and serious shit is guaranteed to go down in The Winds of Winter.
Yea, I think both books would have been better if Jamie and Cersei's chapters were all in AFFC. I think it would have left us with a better Brienne/Jamie cliffhanger and given Cersei's arc in AFFC a little more meaning/character development, etc.
Shit is definitely going to go down in TWoW, and I can't wait
Shit is definitely going to go down in TWoW, and I can't wait
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