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[ZephyrFate]

Freaking JON. He better not be dead. That would be retarded. What would be the freaking point? "I killed another Stark LOL~!!11!"

I felt like this book was a little fluff-tacular in sections- not enough moved forward for my liking. It's a ginormous bridge book. Also, what was the point of Quintyn? What. Was. It? Why did I need to read about this loveable loser who thought he could "steal" a freaking dragon? MEH.

Spoiler

Right now, my sole desire for this series is for the Hound not to be dead, and to randomly swoop in and rescue/kidnap Sansa, and they eventually make little malamutes and reclaim Winterfell THE END.

I can't wait to get back to Brienne and Jaime. They're cool folks.

Quentyn cements the idea that words are wind, a running philosophy in the novel.

Also no need for spoilers.

 

[Lactose_Intolerant]

Okay.

Lets clear something up here and now.

The books speak of a mummer's dragon, not a mummer dragon, perhaps.

But in ADWD, dragons, both real and FALSE, are mentioned.

This leads me to believe Aegon is in fact NOT a Targ.

I think on the Westeros boards a popular theory is that Aegon is Magister Illyrio Mopatis' son.

It would explain why he's so interested in seeing him. Illyrio wasn't always a fat slob. He has that statue of him in the garden. He might also be a Blackfyre.

 

[Freshmaker]

You know, I think there's something in how Missandei always sticks near Dany. Maybe Missandei is the real Dany and they drugged Missandei to act like Dany so the real Dany would be safe when they try to kill Dany, but they'd be trying to kill Missandei the fake Dany instead, because the real Dany would be disguised as the fake Missandei (whose real version is the fake Dany).

When the two Jedi land in separate transports, this plot will unravel fairly quickly if so.

 

[Pollux]

I think on the Westeros boards a popular theory is that Aegon is Magister Illyrio Mopatis' son.

It would explain why he's so interested in seeing him. Illyrio wasn't always a fat slob. He has that statue of him in the garden. He might also be a Blackfyre.

Who, Illyrio?

 

[Lactose_Intolerant]

Yes. Seriously, the man is beyond rich. What motivation does he have to want to help take over the 7 Kingdoms.

 

[Salazar]

Illyrio wasn't always a fat slob. He has that statue of him in the garden.

Many a fat man in history has represented himself as slender.

 

[apana]

George RR Martin could have played Illyrio, in fact I think at one point they dressed him up as a Pentoshi magistrate but got rid of that scene.

Yes. Seriously, the man is beyond rich. What motivation does he have to want to help take over the 7 Kingdoms.

What are you saying?

Many a fat man in history has represented himself as slender.

Damn you. I remember when I was slender.

 

[Lactose_Intolerant]

What are you saying?

I believe Illyrio said he wants the master of coins job. The man is already super wealthy. He doesn't need more money. What motivation does he have to help out the targaryen family? Maybe if he was secretly trying to get his son on the throne.

 

[Lactose_Intolerant]

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/53705-adwd-spoilers-the-varys-illyrio-conspiracy/

 

[Dresden]

I believe Illyrio said he wants the master of coins job. The man is already super wealthy. He doesn't need more money. What motivation does he have to help out the targaryen family? Maybe if he was secretly trying to get his son on the throne.

Clearly a lie. And yeah, I'm fond of the 'Aegon is the fat man's son' theory.

 

[ZephyrFate]

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/53705-adwd-spoilers-the-varys-illyrio-conspiracy/

gah this is going to distract me from my paper for a whileee

 

[Blackheim]

Right now, my sole desire for this series is for the Hound not to be dead, and to randomly swoop in and rescue/kidnap Sansa, and they eventually make little malamutes and reclaim Winterfell THE END.

I can't wait to get back to Brienne and Jaime. They're cool folks.

I'm pretty sure he's not dead. In AFFC when ... someone (it's been a long time!) was out looking for him. There was this place with a monk-like community, is how I remember it, where it appeared his horse was in the stable and there was a huge robed guy working the field ... or something. So, basically he 'died' in that he seemed to stop being The Hound and became one of those dudes. For who knows how long. Gah, I need to re-read that book and the rest. I hope my memory isn't too far off.

Yeah, I'm expecting Brienne to try to put Jaime's sword through him. Stupid Catelyn/Coldheart.

 

[Chuckie]

Tyrion has no one to blame but himself if he ever believed Shae cared for him. Humiliating him and fucking his father...well being a selfish whore (which Tyrion knew she was) doesn't mean she deserved to get murdered. Shae was a young girl who liked jewels and was sleeping with Tyrion to improve her status...what did he expect to happen once he was ruined and imprisoned?

Tyrion is fucked up because of Tysha and got attached to a person that he knew all along never cared about more than his wealth and status. He's got no one to blame but himself for what happened.

She falsely testifies against him knowing he would receive the death penalty.
Sleeping for money is one thing, lying to get someone executed another. The whore got exactly what she deserved.

 

[Aselith]

I'm pretty sure he's not dead. In AFFC when ... someone (it's been a long time!) was out looking for him. There was this place with a monk-like community, is how I remember it, where it appeared his horse was in the stable and there was a huge robed guy working the field ... or something. So, basically he 'died' in that he seemed to stop being The Hound and became one of those dudes. For who knows how long. Gah, I need to re-read that book and the rest. I hope my memory isn't too far off.

Yeah, I'm expecting Brienne to try to put Jaime's sword through him. Stupid Catelyn/Coldheart.

The abbot at the abby specifically says he's dead. Says he was with him when he died. That's not necessarily guaranteed proof of course but we'll see.

 

[duckroll]

The abbot at the abby specifically says he's dead. Says he was with him when he died. That's not necessarily guaranteed proof of course but we'll see.

Obviously the person who took him in and gave him a new identity and path in life would have to tell others that the Hound is dead.

 

[dabig2]

The abbot at the abby specifically says he's dead. Says he was with him when he died. That's not necessarily guaranteed proof of course but we'll see.

The guy has a different sense of the word death than most people. He goes into a story on how he too 'died' at the Battle of the Trident in a figurative sense. The same can easily be applied to the Hound as well. The man that was so full of hatred and murder ('the Hound') died in his arms and became Sandor Clegane, the novice gravedigger.

Plus the physical features of that same gravedigger and the focus on the dog...would be one hell of a red herring and I'd tip my hat to GRRM if it is. It's just that I find this theory about as likely to happen as Jon being the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna - which is very, very, very high for me.

 

[Blackheim]

The guy has a different sense of the word death than most people. He goes into a story on how he too 'died' at the Battle of the Trident in a figurative sense. The same can easily be applied to the Hound as well. The man that was so full of hatred and murder ('the Hound') died in his arms and became Sandor Clegane, the novice gravedigger.

Obviously the person who took him in and gave him a new identity and path in life would have to tell others that the Hound is dead.

Yes yes, that's what I was trying to say. Was having a hard time since my memory is rather fuzzy. 'The Hound' is dead, the man Sandor is not is what I took away from that portion of the book.

Oh, Dance was awesome of course. I noticed he didn't say when the next book was coming out at the end this time There were quite a few spelling/grammar mistakes, annoying but not too bothersome. We wanted the book out ASAP and I'm sure he did too so I can forgive that haha.

 

[KolosLazar16]

The abbot at the abby specifically says he's dead. Says he was with him when he died. That's not necessarily guaranteed proof of course but we'll see.

He says the Hound is dead. He never says Sandor Clegane is dead.

 

[ItAintEasyBeinCheesy]

He says the Hound is dead. He never says Sandor Clegane is dead.

Yeah, spiritual rebirth and all that I think.... though I cant see The Hound being very pious. He'll be living with them cause he's sick of the shit.

 

[Pkaz01]

Cmon Gregor fighting as Cersei's champion against a religious organization, and the gravedigger being able to be the faiths champion? It has to happen. Best way for GRRM to make his Clegane showdown, he so brought ungregor back for sandor to finish him, he might die in the process though.

 

[jon bones]

The abbot at the abby specifically says he's dead. Says he was with him when he died. That's not necessarily guaranteed proof of course but we'll see.

he also says he himself died.

the hound is dead, sandor alive at the monastary just chilling and being less angry. i hope we never see him again in the story. let him live out the rest of his days in peace.

 

[Chuckie]

he also says he himself died.

the hound is dead, sandor alive at the monastary just chilling and being less angry. i hope we never see him again in the story. let him live out the rest of his days in peace.

Grrm doesn't let anyone live out the rest of his days in peace though.

Lets just hope he survives the epic battle between him and his undead asshole brother.

 

[ItAintEasyBeinCheesy]

The Hound is to BAWS to stay as just a grave digger forever. I can see him as the champion for the church only after he finds out the queens champion is some 8 foot tall dude...... but then you have to do all the travel n shit, it will be a bit of a stretch?

I want him to hook up with someone unexpected though.

 

[ultron87]

Is there any evidence for Aegon/Young Griff being Illyrio's son besides that if he isn't a Targaryen he has to be someone's son?

 

[i_am_ben]

I hope Aegon is a real Targaryen merely to shut Danny up about usurpers.

 

[Levi]

Is there any evidence for Aegon/Young Griff being Illyrio's son besides that if he isn't a Targaryen he has to be someone's son?

Illyrio's wife had purple eyes and silver hair, Illyrio had chests full of boys clothing (with which he clothed Tyrion), and Illyrio was very keen to see Griff when the dropped Tyrion off at the boat.

Not overwhelming, but enough for a theory.

 

[KingGondo]

The most poetic way for Gregor to die would be to get torched by Drogon when Daenerys returns to King's Landing.

And it would be quite touching if Sandor really has found peace, but I suspect that he'll get drawn back into the conflict somehow.

Also, I was wondering if anyone knows whose skull was sent to Dorne in place of Gregor's since he's clearly alive? Skulls that big aren't exactly in ready supply.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/53705-adwd-spoilers-the-varys-illyrio-conspiracy/

I've been interested in this for ages and the new book really has a lot of new material for it.

I don't think Varys is a eunuch, BTW, based on the end of the book.

 

[Rubashov]

Does it change anything if Aegon isn't a true Targ? It's an interesting plot twist, but in the scheme of things it'll be the strength of his armies that gains the throne. He's raised the banner, and some of the Houses will flock to him as if he were true.

The real test will be when/if he meets the dragons. If he has any Targ blood in him, then they should greet him warmly, like with Brown Ben Plumm.

 

[levious]

I don't think Varys is a eunuch, BTW, based on the end of the book.

what do you mean?

 

[ultron87]

The real test will be when/if he meets the dragons. If he has any Targ blood in him, then they should greet him warmly, like with Brown Ben Plumm.

Well that's certainly how it worked out for Quentyn.

/badumtish

 

[Lactose_Intolerant]

Also, I was wondering if anyone knows whose skull was sent to Dorne in place of Gregor's since he's clearly alive? Skulls that big aren't exactly in ready supply.

I believe its the dwarf head that those guys brought to cersei for the reward. It was a huge head.

 

[KingGondo]

I believe its the dwarf head that those guys brought to cersei for the reward. It was a huge head.

Makes sense. Not that it really matters much, I was just wondering.

 

[jon bones]

I believe its the dwarf head that those guys brought to cersei for the reward. It was a huge head.

oh shit, good catch

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

what do you mean?

Text notes that his voice is deeper.

 

[levious]

Text notes that his voice is deeper.

wasn't his voice deeper at times before? Like when he visited Ned in the dungeon with stubble.

 

[KingGondo]

Text notes that his voice is deeper.

It may just imply that Varys is putting on a show of being effeminate, playing into peoples' preconceptions of how eunuchs act so he can gain trust and allay suspicions. I suspect that he's still a eunuch, but that he plays it up and that we see him more as he truly is when he's talking to Kevan.

We know from the Unsullied that eunuchs don't have to be powdery little fellows that wisp around in slippers.

 

[Lactose_Intolerant]

I also like how Varys used a crossbow to kill kevan and pycelle. Cersei is going to become even more paranoid thinking Tyrion is going to be trying to kill her.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

wasn't his voice deeper at times before? Like when he visited Ned in the dungeon with stubble.

But here I think the point was that he didn't have to keep up the pretense for once.

 

[John Harker]

He says the Hound is dead. He never says Sandor Clegane is dead.

He's got to stop fake killing people. He was so good at killing them at first and now 'oh no, too popular to kill!" - not that I want to see so many people perma-dead taht I enjoy, but still. This tactic loses it's effect pretty quickly when dead people stop staying dead.

 

[ultron87]

He's got to stop fake killing people. He was so good at killing them at first and now 'oh no, too popular to kill!" - not that I want to see so many people perma-dead taht I enjoy, but still. This tactic loses it's effect pretty quickly when dead people stop staying dead.

The problem is that there are very few important characters he could kill without making the audience feel incredibly cheated by their death.

For example, if Jon is actually dead dead it would simultaneously make him the greatest troll of all time and a terrible author.

 

[John Harker]

The most poetic way for Gregor to die would be to get torched by Drogon when Daenerys returns to King's Landing.

And it would be quite touching if Sandor really has found peace, but I suspect that he'll get drawn back into the conflict somehow.

Also, I was wondering if anyone knows whose skull was sent to Dorne in place of Gregor's since he's clearly alive? Skulls that big aren't exactly in ready supply.

Do we know what they did to the Greatjon? They've had him captive for awhile. He was a rather big dude.

 

[LegendofJoe]

Do we know what they did to the Greatjon? They've had him captive for awhile. He was a rather big dude.

The Greatjon is alive. I may be mistaken but I'm pretty sure it was mentioned in ADWD that he is still a captive at the Trident.

 

[shadowsdarknes]

What I think the future holds for Jon:
I think he is AA, and will be reborn from man, to wolf, then back to man. His body will
somehow remain intact, as well as his soul and essence through the magic held within
the Wall. After his revival, he leaves the Wall and begins his journey south, first to
Ramsay, then furthermore south until he is reunited with Cat, and the BwB. Brienne and
Jamie return to the BwB and cross paths with Jon as well. With them are the remnants
of Ned's greatsword Ice. Oathkeeper and Joffrey's sword are reforged into Ice by
Gendry's hands, and Cat begs Jon to thrust the newly forged greatsword to end her quest
of revenge, and as a plea for his forgiveness and as a way to rid Jon of his anguish.
The fire she received from Dondarrion flows into Ice, causing the sword to ignite into
Lightbringer.

 

[KingGondo]

What I think the future holds for Jon:
I think he is AA, and will be reborn from man, to wolf, then back to man. His body will
somehow remain intact, as well as his soul and essence through the magic held within
the Wall. After his revival, he leaves the Wall and begins his journey south, first to
Ramsay, then furthermore south until he is reunited with Cat, and the BwB. Brienne and
Jamie return to the BwB and cross paths with Jon as well. With them are the remnants
of Ned's greatsword Ice. Oathkeeper and Joffrey's sword are reforged into Ice by
Gendry's hands, and Cat begs Jon to thrust the newly forged greatsword to end her quest
of revenge, and as a plea for his forgiveness and as a way to rid Jon of his anguish.
The fire she received from Dondarrion flows into Ice, causing the sword to ignite into
Lightbringer.

Nice theory, that makes a lot of sense.

And as a cherry on top, Jon and Bran will then warg into Viserion and Rhaegal, helping Daenerys (riding Drogon) crush the remnants of the Lannisters.

 

[jon bones]

What I think the future holds for Jon:
I think he is AA, and will be reborn from man, to wolf, then back to man. His body will
somehow remain intact, as well as his soul and essence through the magic held within
the Wall. After his revival, he leaves the Wall and begins his journey south, first to
Ramsay, then furthermore south until he is reunited with Cat, and the BwB. Brienne and
Jamie return to the BwB and cross paths with Jon as well. With them are the remnants
of Ned's greatsword Ice. Oathkeeper and Joffrey's sword are reforged into Ice by
Gendry's hands, and Cat begs Jon to thrust the newly forged greatsword to end her quest
of revenge, and as a plea for his forgiveness and as a way to rid Jon of his anguish.
The fire she received from Dondarrion flows into Ice, causing the sword to ignite into
Lightbringer.

nice, dude

 

[q_q]

What I think the future holds for Jon:
I think he is AA, and will be reborn from man, to wolf, then back to man. His body will
somehow remain intact, as well as his soul and essence through the magic held within
the Wall. After his revival, he leaves the Wall and begins his journey south, first to
Ramsay, then furthermore south until he is reunited with Cat, and the BwB. Brienne and
Jamie return to the BwB and cross paths with Jon as well. With them are the remnants
of Ned's greatsword Ice. Oathkeeper and Joffrey's sword are reforged into Ice by
Gendry's hands, and Cat begs Jon to thrust the newly forged greatsword to end her quest
of revenge, and as a plea for his forgiveness and as a way to rid Jon of his anguish.
The fire she received from Dondarrion flows into Ice, causing the sword to ignite into
Lightbringer.

This sounds like something the readers would want to happen, which means it almost certainly will not happen.

 

[bathala]

in a GRRM fashion.
halfway through its not going to plan out.

also I think he doesn't want his main character being together he likes POV in different places

 

[ultron87]

in a GRRM fashion.
halfway through its not going to plan out.

also I think he doesn't want his main character being together he likes POV in different places

At some point a decent number of the characters are going to have to come together.

If a majority of the Stark children don't get back together in some form or another before the end of the series I will burn my books.

 

[apana]

What I think the future holds for Jon:
I think he is AA, and will be reborn from man, to wolf, then back to man. His body will
somehow remain intact, as well as his soul and essence through the magic held within
the Wall. After his revival, he leaves the Wall and begins his journey south, first to
Ramsay, then furthermore south until he is reunited with Cat, and the BwB. Brienne and
Jamie return to the BwB and cross paths with Jon as well. With them are the remnants
of Ned's greatsword Ice. Oathkeeper and Joffrey's sword are reforged into Ice by
Gendry's hands, and Cat begs Jon to thrust the newly forged greatsword to end her quest
of revenge, and as a plea for his forgiveness and as a way to rid Jon of his anguish.
The fire she received from Dondarrion flows into Ice, causing the sword to ignite into
Lightbringer.

I like it. Here are my theories for the future. This is covering Winds of Winter and some of Dream of Spring.

Stannis manages to defeat Bolton but ends up dying in the process. Davos is hard at work finding Rickon but in the meantime the North is kind of in chaos.

Jon finds himself stuck inside Ghost and Melisandre is keeping his body safe for him. She tells him he can regain his body if he finds the Bloodraven dude who she assumes to be the Great Other.

Sansa is learning much from Littlefinger and gets married to Harry the Heir as per Littlefinger's plans. At the wedding she reveals herself as Sansa and both the North and the Vale swear allegiance to her and her Husband. She then double crosses Littlefinger and her Husband, managing to kill both. Sansa brings out the armies of the Vale and the North to go and capture the Riverlands. The Riverlands yield to her because she also has Tully blood in her.

Aegon gets the allegiance of Dorne but finds that it is not enough. Dany and her dragons are far away and so he decides to get married to Sansa in order to take back the realm. Together with her help he is able to take King's Landing and become ruler. Sansa is the younger queen destined to replace Cersei.

Bran learns a lot of secrets both magical and otherwise from Bloodraven and eventually figures out how to communicate with other people in the present when they are near a Weirwood tree. Bloodraven tells him about his destiny and says that he is the only one who can go deep into the Land of Always Winter by using his new powers. There he must face the whatever is causing the White Walkers to awaken from their slumber.

Jon Snow discovers Bloodraven and Bran, and is given his body back. Melisandre decides to kill both Bloodraven and his wolf boy (Bran). Melisandre and Bloodraven have a magical duel,
meanwhile Jon gets Bran to safety. He realizes that Melisandre is going nuts and will kill Bloodraven if he doesn't help, so he intervenes to help kill her. Melisandre and Bloodraven both end up dying. Jon takes Bran back to the Wall and becomes Commander. He has a bunch of wildlings escort Bran to the Land of Always Winter. Bran tells Jon that he is the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna, and Jon doesn't really care.

Jon prepares for the fight at the Wall and is helped by Dany who decides to land there instead of trying to win her throne. She realizes a true queen should help her people and so she gets her three giant dragons to melt the Others but then she has to face off against a giant Ice Dragon that the Others create. The Wall breaks. Jon Snow and Dany end up dying.

Bran manages to get into the abode of the Great Other but learns that the Others aren't totally evil. They have some purpose and he has to make a choice.....