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[sooperkool]

I like it. Here are my theories for the future. This is covering Winds of Winter and some of Dream of Spring.

Stannis manages to defeat Bolton but ends up dying in the process. Davos is hard at work finding Rickon but in the meantime the North is kind of in chaos.

Jon finds himself stuck inside Ghost and Melisandre is keeping his body safe for him. She tells him he can regain his body if he finds the Bloodraven dude who she assumes to be the Great Other.

Sansa is learning much from Littlefinger and gets married to Harry the Heir as per Littlefinger's plans. At the wedding she reveals herself as Sansa and both the North and the Vale swear allegiance to her and her Husband. She then double crosses Littlefinger and her Husband, managing to kill both. Sansa brings out the armies of the Vale and the North to go and capture the Riverlands. The Riverlands yield to her because she also has Tully blood in her.

Aegon gets the allegiance of Dorne but finds that it is not enough. Dany and her dragons are far away and so he decides to get married to Sansa in order to take back the realm. Together with her help he is able to take King's Landing and become ruler. Sansa is the younger queen destined to replace Cersei.

Bran learns a lot of secrets both magical and otherwise from Bloodraven and eventually figures out how to communicate with other people in the present when they are near a Weirwood tree. Bloodraven tells him about his destiny and says that he is the only one who can go deep into the Land of Always Winter by using his new powers. There he must face the whatever is causing the White Walkers to awaken from their slumber.

Jon Snow discovers Bloodraven and Bran, and is given his body back. Melisandre decides to kill both Bloodraven and his wolf boy (Bran).Melisandre and Bloodraven have a magical duel,
meanwhile Jon gets Bran to safety. He realizes that Melisandre is going nuts and will kill Bloodraven if he doesn't help, so he intervenes to help kill her. Melisandre and Bloodraven both end up dying. Jon takes Bran back to the Wall and becomes Commander. He has a bunch of wildlings escort Bran to the Land of Always Winter. Bran tells Jon that he is the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna, and Jon doesn't really care.

Jon prepares for the fight at the Wall and is helped by Dany who decides to land there instead of trying to win her throne. She realizes a true queen should help her people and so she gets her three giant dragons to melt the Others but then she has to face off against a giant Ice Dragon that the Others create. The Wall breaks. Jon Snow and Dany end up dying.

Bran manages to get into the abode of the Great Other but learns that the Others aren't totally evil. They have some purpose and he has to make a choice.....

I don't see this happening in this series. Magic has never worked like that.

 

[apana]

I don't see this happening in this series. Magic has never worked like that.

I actually agree. I'm just a sucker for wizarding duels. I do think she will try and kill Bloodraven somehow and someone will need to stop her.

 

[ultron87]

I can't see Dany's only purpose in the story be to show up at the Wall with Dragon cavalry.

It has to be more than that.

Edit: At Dresden's below: Aegon is going for Storm's End, not Dragonstone.

 

[Dresden]

Speculation:

Stannis roots out the Karstark traitor, cuts down the Freys, and with the help of the Manderlys is able to survive the snowy ordeal. A deal is struck between him and the Braavosi banker.

Davos sails to Skagos, meets Shaggywolf. Rickon is nowhere to be found; he is informed by Osha that Shaggywolf is Rickon.

Theon is sentenced to be burnt for his crimes. Asha resolves to break him out. Theon meanwhile promises to keep Jeyne's secret.

Aegon's assault on Dragonstone succeeds. (Is Loras still there? They could totally fuck.)

Doran receives news of Quentyn's unfortunate encounter with the dragons. Does what he does best - wait.

Dany does some shit that no one cares about and flies back to Meereen or something, I dunno, fuck Dany.

 

[nckillthegrimace]

I believe its the dwarf head that those guys brought to cersei for the reward. It was a huge head.

That makes sense. For some reason I thought Gregor was resurrected sans head and that's why he never took off his helm. Like he's a dullahan or something.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Speculation:

Stannis roots out the Karstark traitor, cuts down the Freys, and with the help of the Manderlys is able to survive the snowy ordeal. A deal is struck between him and the Braavosi banker.

Davos sails to Skagos, meets Shaggywolf. Rickon is nowhere to be found; he is informed by Osha that Shaggywolf is Rickon.

Theon is sentenced to be burnt for his crimes. Asha resolves to break him out. Theon meanwhile promises to keep Jeyne's secret.

Aegon's assault on Dragonstone succeeds. (Is Loras still there? They could totally fuck.)

Doran receives news of Quentyn's unfortunate encounter with the dragons. Does what he does best - wait.

Dany does some shit that no one cares about and flies back to Meereen or something, I dunno, fuck Dany.

Yea, after I finished the book I felt like that would most likely happen. Davos finding Rickon in perfect health just doesn't seem like something Martin would do; he loves fucking up Starks. Or maybe Rickon is still in his human body, but is so feral he can barely be called human.

 

[apana]

In Bran's first vision he sees a monstrous dude with a giant helmet on him and when the guy opens his helmet there is no head there. There is just some kind of black fog or substance. I think that may have been Gregor's real head sent to Dorne.

Yea, after I finished the book I felt like that would most likely happen. Davos finding Rickon in perfect health just doesn't seem like something Martin would do; he loves fucking up Starks. Or maybe Rickon is still in his human body, but is so feral he can barely be called human.

Rickon turns into a cannibal and tries to eat Davos.

 

[jon bones]

rickon was like 6 at the start of the series, right? how old would that make him now? 10?

 

[Acidote]

rickon was like 6 at the start of the series, right? how old would that make him now? 10?

He was 3 in the books at the start of the series.

 

[Dresden]

They probably sent Gregor's real skull - how big can a dwarf's head be, after all?

Under the helm of Gregorstein, who knows, maybe the stitched-up amalgamation of the heads of all the women Qyburn tortured to death. Or maybe just the head of Lady Farnese. Lol.

 

[ultron87]

It's Robert Baratheon's head. It is there just to really freak Cersei out.

 

[Coin Return]

n/m

 

[jon bones]

He was 3 in the books at the start of the series.

so he's like 6 or so now, hrmm

 

[Freshmaker]

I can't see Dany's only purpose in the story be to show up at the Wall with Dragon cavalry.

It has to be more than that.

She also has to get pregnant at some point.

 

[Chuckie]

That makes sense. For some reason I thought Gregor was resurrected sans head and that's why he never took off his helm. Like he's a dullahan or something.

That's what I thought. There was some vision with a headless giant.

Edit: It was Bran's vision: "A giant in armor made of stone, but when he opened his visor, there was nothing inside but darkness and thick black blood."

Could be referring to something else ofcourse, or not to be taken literally.

 

[Lactose_Intolerant]

The skull's brow shelf was thick and heavy which is something dwarfs have. I don't think its mentioned anywhere that Gregor had that. Its just speculation though. Maybe Gregor doesn't have a head. Has Robert Strong talked yet?

 

[IamMattFox]

The skull's brow shelf was thick and heavy which is something dwarfs have. I don't think its mentioned anywhere that Gregor had that. Its just speculation though. Maybe Gregor doesn't have a head. Has Robert Strong talked yet?

He took a vow of silence. ;D

 

[platypotamus]

Aegon's assault on Dragonstone succeeds. (Is Loras still there? They could totally fuck.)

Aegon's going to Storm's End, not Dragonstone. Loras is at Dragonstone still, I think.

 

[KingGondo]

They probably sent Gregor's real skull - how big can a dwarf's head be, after all?

Under the helm of Gregorstein, who knows, maybe the stitched-up amalgamation of the heads of all the women Qyburn tortured to death. Or maybe just the head of Lady Farnese. Lol.

That reminds me of one thing I really missed in ADWD: the ongoing stuff in King's Landing. I absolutely love that corrupt shithole of a city, plus the backstabbing and endless scheming... Although it's admittedly not as fun with Cersei reduced to nothing and the other fun Lannisters gone/dead.

Also, as I am continually trying to find a place to cast Brad Dourif in AGoT, Qyburn would be another great candidate.

 

[apana]

Going back to my predictions, one thing I definitely feel is going to happen is that George is going to use Bran's perspective to show us events beyond the timeline of his story. I also feel that Bran or Jon will encounter the "leader" of the Others.

I don't think the Others are evil or just an elemental force. There are two main sides I see in this battle. One are the red priests who worship R'hllor. They represent fire. I think the Others represent Ice, they aren't necessarily bad, they are just afraid of all warm creatures. There may be actual reasons to be afraid of them, maybe humans or red priests persecuted them in the past.

 

[platypotamus]

I really don't see much reason to believe that the Others are anything but what they seem to be.

 

[q_q]

I really don't see much reason to believe that the Others are anything but what they seem to be.

I don't know, it seems like too much of an obvious fantasy trope for GRRM. But then again so do all the prophecies and Azor Ahai and all, so who knows.

 

[platypotamus]

I don't know, it seems like too much of an obvious fantasy trope for GRRM. But then again so do all the prophecies and Azor Ahai and all, so who knows.

For me, it's just that I think if the Others were more than they seem, there would have been hints of it, or one of the smarter characters would have started to suspect, or Sam's research would have made some mention of it. Unless I've just missed them, there's really not much there to indicate they are anything but pretty traditional undead evil. There was some sort of talking once, that's about it, right?

 

[shadowsdarknes]

This sounds like something the readers would want to happen, which means it almost certainly will not happen.

Everything has to come together at some point, even Martin has said that. Which is why
ADwD was written the way it was. All the players are in place for some epic, satisfying events to take place. My theory may not happen in that exact fashion (I hope it doesn't)
but I am quite sure the two long swords made from Ice will be reforged by the order of
unCat and in her final act of life will sacrifice herself to the sword.

Some more Jon and Ice speculation:

The evidence I have for Jon receiving Ice are frivolous but show symbolic clues that may
be true of the eldest Stark children, Robb and Jon. I believe both have Stark honor, and
follow the Stark code like Ned did. However, Robb certainly demonstrates this less than his
bastard counterpart, Jon. Robb for example, hides his emotions less so than Jon does which I believe he inherits from his mother who at times of emotional distress, completely loses her
composure. Jon is always stern, nearly expressionless in serious matters and keeps his
thoughts to himself which are traits nurtured by Ned. The symbolism that truly shows the
difference of the two are the scenes where they behead the Karstark and Slynt. Robb is
shown to repeatedly attempt to hack the Karstark's head off until multiple blows later, he
finally severs the head from body, whereas Jon takes Slynts head off with one swoop of the
sword. Ned needed just one swing of Ice to take off an enemy's head. Therefore, Jon was
always destined for Ice, as he is the only Stark worthy of wielding such a sword.

 

[KingGondo]

While all the Azor Ahai stuff is interesting, I would honestly be somewhat disappointed if GRRM follows it through to the conclusion of having the prophecy come true.

The idea that we're all just on the path of fulfilling some ancient prophecy is so played out, I hope the characters are able to shape their own destinies to some extent. That's part of what drew me into the world of ASOIAF--that the characters each have selfish motivations that have real repercussions, and that life is nasty and short.

I have to say, I would love for the series to end with GRRM giving one last middle finger to everyone, with every Stark except Sansa dead, Daenerys and her dragons slain, and Littlefinger on the Iron Throne.

Which brings up an interesting discussion: what is the least satisfying ending you could possibly imagine for the series?

 

[Hasphat'sAnts]

While all the Azor Ahai stuff is interesting, I would honestly be somewhat disappointed if GRRM follows it through to the conclusion of having the prophecy come true.

The idea that we're all just on the path of fulfilling some ancient prophecy is so played out, I hope the characters are able to shape their own destinies to some extent. That's part of what drew me into the world of ASOIAF--that the characters each have selfish motivations that have real repercussions, and that life is nasty and short.

I have to say, I would love for the series to end with GRRM giving one last middle finger to everyone, with every Stark except Sansa dead, Daenerys and her dragons slain, and Littlefinger on the Iron Throne.

Which brings up an interesting discussion: what is the least satisfying ending you could possibly imagine for the series?

Patchface leading the Others to cover the land in eternal darkness.

Wait, got that confused with the most satisfying ending.

Ned needed just one swing of Ice to take off an enemy's head. Therefore, Jon was
always destined for Ice, as he is the only Stark worthy of wielding such a sword.

Robb didn't have a Valyrian blade to help chop up Rickard Karstark's head. Quit clowning on Robb, he was a fine soldier but a terrible king. He is his father's son.

 

[tokkun]

For me, it's just that I think if the Others were more than they seem, there would have been hints of it, or one of the smarter characters would have started to suspect, or Sam's research would have made some mention of it. Unless I've just missed them, there's really not much there to indicate they are anything but pretty traditional undead evil. There was some sort of talking once, that's about it, right?

It's important to differentiate between the Others with the White Walkers. The Others only appear "on screen" twice, as far as I remember - at the beginning with Weymar Royce and in the scene where Sam kills one. The Others in the beginning due talk to each other and appear to have intelligence. The White Walkers are the zombies.

 

[q_q]

Everything has to come together at some point, even Martin has said that. Which is why
ADwD was written the way it was. All the players are in place for some epic, satisfying events to take place. My theory may not happen in that exact fashion (I hope it doesn't)
but I am quite sure the two long swords made from Ice will be reforged by the order of
unCat and in her final act of life will sacrifice herself to the sword.

I feel you, but it seems a lot to me like "Yeah Ned is gonna go join the Night's Watch and be with Jon and it will be awesome!" or "Yeah Robb is gonna get the Frey's allegiance back and retake the North, fuck yeah!" or "Drogo and Dany are gonna come back with the Dothraki and kill the Lannisters and reclaim the throne!" All stuff that sounds awesome and that I would have liked to see happen, but GRRM has a habit of taking what the fans want, ripping it into pieces, eating it, shitting it out, and shoving it down our throats. And I hate and love him for it at the same time.

Some more Jon and Ice speculation:

The evidence I have for Jon receiving Ice are frivolous but show symbolic clues that may
be true of the eldest Stark children, Robb and Jon. I believe both have Stark honor, and
follow the Stark code like Ned did. However, Robb certainly demonstrates this less than his
bastard counterpart, Jon. Robb for example, hides his emotions less so than Jon does which I believe he inherits from his mother who at times of emotional distress, completely loses her
composure. Jon is always stern, nearly expressionless in serious matters and keeps his
thoughts to himself which are traits nurtured by Ned. The symbolism that truly shows the
difference of the two are the scenes where they behead the Karstark and Slynt. Robb is
shown to repeatedly attempt to hack the Karstark's head off until multiple blows later, he
finally severs the head from body, whereas Jon takes Slynts head off with one swoop of the
sword. Ned needed just one swing of Ice to take off an enemy's head. Therefore, Jon was
always destined for Ice, as he is the only Stark worthy of wielding such a sword.

Seems like a bit of a stretch. It was noted that Robb had to use an old blunt axe on Rickard Karstark, thus the reason he had to hack away at it. Ned and Jon both were able to use Valyrian steel which is famous for being sharper, swifter and lighter than normal steel, thus the reason it was so easy to get the heads off in one stroke. Just saying. I really like the idea of Cat playing the part of Nissa Nissa though. I could see something like that happening.

It's important to differentiate between the Others with the White Walkers. The Others only appear "on screen" twice, as far as I remember - at the beginning with Weymar Royce and in the scene where Sam kills one. The Others in the beginning due talk to each other and appear to have intelligence. The White Walkers are the zombies.

No the White Walkers are the same as the Others. The zombies are wights.

 

[platypotamus]

Which brings up an interesting discussion: what is the least satisfying ending you could possibly imagine for the series?

Ramsay Bolton marries Dany or real Arya, sits the Iron throne.

It's important to differentiate between the Others with the White Walkers. The Others only appear "on screen" twice, as far as I remember - at the beginning with Weymar Royce and in the scene where Sam kills one. The Others in the beginning due talk to each other and appear to have intelligence. The White Walkers are the zombies.

This is a good point, but there's still been nothing giving them any sort of real intelligence/sympathy angle yet. I'd have imagined that Jon's trip with the Wildlings would have at least given us some sort of hint that maybe there was more to the Others than previously specified.

Bran's trip with Coldhands and talking with the children of the forest hasn't revealed anything either. If the Others have any semblance of humanity, SOMEONE would know, and it wouldn't just come pretty much completely unannounced near the end of the series.

 

[Freshmaker]

Bran's trip with Coldhands and talking with the children of the forest hasn't revealed anything either. If the Others have any semblance of humanity, SOMEONE would know, and it wouldn't just come pretty much completely unannounced near the end of the series.

Coldhands seems to indicate they're not all bad. He may just be a warged Other, but still he retained his intelligence and has been actively helping Bran.

 

[Rubashov]

I always liked how prophecy was handled in this series. Different cultures have different sources for foretelling, ranging from night fires to the Undying to blood magic. It feels more like regional superstition as opposed to an overarching prophecy of the fate of all things in one book in every library in the world, like some fantasy series...

At first it felt like GRRM kept the doomsayers behind the curtain. Azor Ahai is a foreign legend all the way from Asshai. It felt ancient and alien and not relevant to our characters originally. Even the prophecy from the old khaleesis had to be translated for us. When it comes to Westeros, we still don't know what convinced Rhaegar to become a warrior to fulfill his role for the Prince that was Promised. What happened at Summerhall? Did the tragedy there have something to do with the Prince and waking dragons? The Citadel itself is starting to look suspicious as they collect lost books and keep their knowledge secret. Is there even a song of ice and fire?

Recently, however, GRRM is getting more heavy handed with the foretelling. But that could be a reflection of magic reawakening in the world. Qualithe, Melisandre, and Moroqqo(?) laid it on pretty thick in this book. But I think he made a point with Melisandre to say that prophecy is not always accurate. In fact he was only reinforcing what he showed in the first book, when the visions the old Dothraki hags had about Rhaego were made obsolete in short order (or maybe they were delayed, who knows). Was the "perfumed seneschal" the ship Tyrion called the Fragrant Steward or was it Reznak? It doesn't even seem important to find out anymore, personally.

He's given himself enough wiggle room to get away with severely reinterpreting any of this stuff when it suits him.

Take AA reborn and Lightbringer: The legend of the first Lightbringer says that AA tried killing a lion with his sword before he used it on his wife, but the lion's soul wouldn't take and the sword shattered. Reforging Ice as Lannister swords could qualify as a reinterpretation of the old legend. Tywin wanted the armorer to infuse the blade with the colors of his house, but the colors came out wrong. The armorer said the metal wouldn't take it. Is that good enough to count as an attempt at taking the soul of a lion? Sure, why not. GRRM could roll with that, or have someone kill a Lannister first, or even a real lion Dothraki style. Or no lion at all, perhaps. I don't think there's anything that says AA reborn has to follow the steps to make Lightbringer. It's vague and just says he'll wield it. I hope the prophecy talk stays obscure that way.

 

[shadowsdarknes]

I feel you, but it seems a lot to me like "Yeah Ned is gonna go join the Night's Watch and be with Jon and it will be awesome!" or "Yeah Robb is gonna get the Frey's allegiance back and retake the North, fuck yeah!" or "Drogo and Dany are gonna come back with the Dothraki and kill the Lannisters and reclaim the throne!" All stuff that sounds awesome and that I would have liked to see happen, but GRRM has a habit of taking what the fans want, ripping it into pieces, eating it, shitting it out, and shoving it down our throats. And I hate and love him for it at the same time.

I totally agree with you through and through with all your points. However, I must ask how long can Martin continue to crush our hopes for our favorite characters and never have any resolution? Martin must strike a balance between the conflicts and characters who have been around since GoT, while introducing new ones like he did with Feast otherwise many fans - myself - included will lose interest in the story. I love Martin for killing off characters unexpectedly and for holy mind fuck twists, that make sense when they are revealed to the reader, however many of the characters and arch's introduced in Feast will not be enough to carry my interest to the end of the series. Thus there must begin a time where things are interesting because the good guys who are the underdogs start to make a comeback. It makes sense too since peril and failure has been commonly happening to our favorite characters since the middle of GoT. Badass shit needs to start happening in the second half of ASoIaF. Martin has perfectly set this up with the last two bridge pieces in the story. Kings Landing will still have political turmoil at it's epicenter, which has been one of the stories strengths. Dany will fulfill MMD's prophecy from GoT (To go forward, you must go back...) and that will start a new adventure for her, on her quest back to Westeros. Jon will travel south, to learn of his lineage and learn more about himself and his path will lead him to becoming the stories hero. Jon has always been my favorite character and many others. His chapters are always interesting and I think they will become more fascinating as he overcomes the haunting dreams that have plagued him his whole life. KL, Dany and Jon are IMO the stories anchors, and the plot will funnel around them in the stories last two entries. Now I do not think the story will become predictable at this point, however I do believe Martin has an idea of where he can turn and where he must drive forward. Ultimately, some characters like Jon and Dany will most likely follow a straighter course than characters like Sansa, Davos, Theon and Bran. My Jon theory shows this. He will of course run into some bumps and road blocks but he does have plot armor as does Dany. It would be an injustice to take that armor off of them because they have been set up as so since GoT and that would awful storytelling. All I know is I can't wait for Winds and am one of the stupid optimistic fans who thinks Martin can pull a aSoS miracle and push Winds out in 2 and a half years. We have a long time to speculate until the day comes regardless.

 

[tokkun]

No the White Walkers are the same as the Others. The zombies are wights.

Yes, you're right. I should have said wights instead of white walkers. But the point is the same. We haven't seen much of the Others so far.

 

[q_q]

Take AA reborn and Lightbringer: The legend of the first Lightbringer says that AA tried killing a lion with his sword before he used it on his wife, but the lion's soul wouldn't take and the sword shattered. Reforging Ice as Lannister swords could qualify as a reinterpretation of the old legend. Tywin wanted the armorer to infuse the blade with the colors of his house, but the colors came out wrong. The armorer said the metal wouldn't take it.

Wow I hadn't thought about that. I like it a lot.

I totally agree with you through and through with all your points. However, I must ask how long can Martin continue to crush our hopes for our favorite characters and never have any resolution? Martin must strike a balance between the conflicts and characters who have been around since GoT, while introducing new ones like he did with Feast otherwise many fans - myself - included will lose interest in the story. I love Martin for killing off characters unexpectedly and for holy mind fuck twists, that make sense when they are revealed to the reader, however many of the characters and arch's introduced in Feast will not be enough to carry my interest to the end of the series. Thus there must begin a time where things are interesting because the good guys who are the underdogs start to make a comeback. It makes sense too since peril and failure has been commonly happening to our favorite characters since the middle of GoT. Badass shit needs to start happening in the second half of ASoIaF. Martin has perfectly set this up with the last two bridge pieces in the story. Kings Landing will still have political turmoil at it's epicenter, which has been one of the stories strengths. Dany will fulfill MMD's prophecy from GoT (To go forward, you must go back...) and that will start a new adventure for her, on her quest back to Westeros. Jon will travel south, to learn of his lineage and learn more about himself and his path will lead him to becoming the stories hero. Jon has always been my favorite character and many others. His chapters are always interesting and I think they will become more fascinating as he overcomes the haunting dreams that have plagued him his whole life. KL, Dany and Jon are IMO the stories anchors, and the plot will funnel around them in the stories last two entries. Now I do not think the story will become predictable at this point, however I do believe Martin has an idea of where he can turn and where he must drive forward. Ultimately, some characters like Jon and Dany will most likely follow a straighter course than characters like Sansa, Davos, Theon and Bran. My Jon theory shows this. He will of course run into some bumps and road blocks but he does have plot armor as does Dany. It would be an injustice to take that armor off of them because they have been set up as so since GoT and that would awful storytelling. All I know is I can't wait for Winds and am one of the stupid optimistic fans who thinks Martin can pull a aSoS miracle and push Winds out in 2 and a half years. We have a long time to speculate until the day comes regardless.

Yeah I'm with you. Id like to see Jon come through as the hero and save the day, at this point it would honestly be surprising to me. But one thing is for sure, the whole killing off popular characters in gruesome ways has become old and he'll need to watch how he does something like that in the future because I'm not sure fans will roll with it so easily after we lost Ned and Robb like we did. It'll be interesting to see.

 

[apana]

Going back to my predictions, one thing I definitely feel is going to happen is that George is going to use Bran's perspective to show us events beyond the timeline of his story. I also feel that Bran or Jon will encounter the "leader" of the Others.

I don't think the Others are evil or just an elemental force. There are two main sides I see in this battle. One are the red priests who worship R'hllor. They represent fire. I think the Others represent Ice, they aren't necessarily bad, they are just afraid of all warm creatures. There may be actual reasons to be afraid of them, maybe humans or red priests persecuted them in the past.

Adding to this, here is what I base my Bran theory on. The first vision he has:

"North and north and north he looked, to the curtain of light at the end of the world, and then beyond that curtain. He looked deep into the heart of winter, and then he cried out, afraid, and the heat of the tears burned on his cheeks"

edit: It is also possible that Melisandre is right and Bloodraven may actually be the "Great Other". Meaning that he is somehow using his powers to awaken the Others and use them as an army to take over Westeros. He needs Bran for some reason. Maybe his own body is dying out and he needs a young one.

With all the talk of blood in that chapter I think Bran or his friends are in some kind of trouble. Bran and his friends are served blood stew and cant tell what the meat is. Jojen tells Meera that they need to be afraid. Jojen and Meera disappear. Bran eats Weirwood paste that looks like blood. Bran tastes blood in his last vision, possibly a sacrifice. Bran attempts to contact Theon through the Weirwood.

 

[Nymerio]

I always liked how prophecy was handled in this series. Different cultures have different sources for foretelling, ranging from night fires to the Undying to blood magic. It feels more like regional superstition as opposed to an overarching prophecy of the fate of all things in one book in every library in the world, like some fantasy series...

At first it felt like GRRM kept the doomsayers behind the curtain. Azor Ahai is a foreign legend all the way from Asshai. It felt ancient and alien and not relevant to our characters originally. Even the prophecy from the old khaleesis had to be translated for us. When it comes to Westeros, we still don't know what convinced Rhaegar to become a warrior to fulfill his role for the Prince that was Promised. What happened at Summerhall? Did the tragedy there have something to do with the Prince and waking dragons? The Citadel itself is starting to look suspicious as they collect lost books and keep their knowledge secret. Is there even a song of ice and fire?

Recently, however, GRRM is getting more heavy handed with the foretelling. But that could be a reflection of magic reawakening in the world. Qualithe, Melisandre, and Moroqqo(?) laid it on pretty thick in this book. But I think he made a point with Melisandre to say that prophecy is not always accurate. In fact he was only reinforcing what he showed in the first book, when the visions the old Dothraki hags had about Rhaego were made obsolete in short order (or maybe they were delayed, who knows). Was the "perfumed seneschal" the ship Tyrion called the Fragrant Steward or was it Reznak? It doesn't even seem important to find out anymore, personally.

He's given himself enough wiggle room to get away with severely reinterpreting any of this stuff when it suits him.

Take AA reborn and Lightbringer: The legend of the first Lightbringer says that AA tried killing a lion with his sword before he used it on his wife, but the lion's soul wouldn't take and the sword shattered. Reforging Ice as Lannister swords could qualify as a reinterpretation of the old legend. Tywin wanted the armorer to infuse the blade with the colors of his house, but the colors came out wrong. The armorer said the metal wouldn't take it. Is that good enough to count as an attempt at taking the soul of a lion? Sure, why not. GRRM could roll with that, or have someone kill a Lannister first, or even a real lion Dothraki style. Or no lion at all, perhaps. I don't think there's anything that says AA reborn has to follow the steps to make Lightbringer. It's vague and just says he'll wield it. I hope the prophecy talk stays obscure that way.

Mind = Blown. Will read through that part again today.

 

[apana]

Holy shit I just found out, from reading the Westeros forums, that Bran from the future talks to Jon in A Clash of Kings:

"Jon?
The call came from behind him, softer than a whisper, but strong too. [...] A Weirwood. Red eyes looked at
him. Fierce eyes they were, yet glad to see him. The weirwood had his brother’s face. Had his
brother always had three eyes?
Not always, came the silent shout. Not before the crow.
He sniffed at the bark, smelled wolf and tree and boy, but behind that there were other
scents, the rich brown smell of warm earth and the hard grey smell of stone and something
else, something terrible. Death, he knew. He was smelling death. He cringed back, his hair
bristling, and bared his fangs.
Don’t be afraid, I like it in the dark. No one can see you, but you can see them. But first
you have to open your eyes. See? Like this. And the tree reached down and touched him."

This is scary stuff. George RR Martin is a cool dude for keeping everything so fucking consistent.

 

[Dresden]

HOLY FUCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK

 

[Rei_Toei]

Just finished the book. Now I'm going to enjoy reading a couple dozen pages of this thread . Two things I'd like to mention, forgive if they've been discussed already.


1) Balance between time spend in Westeros and Essos: in the previous books, whenever the POV switched to a character in Essos (mostly Dany) I was a little :| - with the exception of Braavos, with Arya and the faceless men (Braavos in some ways reminds me of Lynch's Camorr) Essos and it's locations do not interest me as much as Westeros. But it feels at times as if Martin got bored with Westeros and everything he put in it and uses Essos as a huge terra incognita, hardly dwelled upon in previous books, which he can fill in with all kinds of crazy shit. Thing is, I'm not that interested in all the slaver cities, pyramids, bunny-ear flopppy heads and crazy-rich but somehow completely incompetent Yunka'i aristocrats.

I like Westeros for it's noble houses, (or quite not so) chivalrous knights, court scheming, cultural clashes between Northron/Southron people, the academic/science monopoly of Oldtower, the religious conflicts brewing with the Old Gods/Seven/R'hllor, locations like the Wall and Storm's End which were obviously build by people capable of things/arts/techniques that got lost, etc. It's a more complete picture, with history, lore, background, houses fleshed out. Essos and all it holds is messy. 'Look, here's a destroyed city, it was really fancy, years ago, okay, next, LOL'. What I really liked about Westeros and the major houses that with all the background info you have on the houses, regions and history, it's more interesting to speculate (for me) what will happen and how houses react to developments.

2) Alliance-building. Really liked that it finally happened in this book. Davos in White Harbor was one of the biggest 'FUCK YES' moments - sadly no Davos afterwards anymore. But still, with Stannis getting the hill people, Jon some of the Wildlings, it finally seemed like the North is getting it's shit back together again. It's been a while .

 

[Basileus777]

That was a dream sequence when Jon was warged into Ghost right? Bran talking to Jon/Ghost back in ACOK is an awesome find.

What's the name of the thread you found it in?

 

[m3k]

welllllllllll i just finished it yesterday....... cant believe i have to wait another 4 years for another book

heres some speculation... dany convinces jocqo and his kalasar to go with her and crush yunkai... or she slaughters them all and this is just the first step in drogon? the dragon obeying her properly... the king is killed or stays who the fuck cares shes gone back to go forth and all that

tyrion gets plum and his group back to selmy and they wait for dany to return they end up going over to weteros and the dragons help defeat the others

stannis holds out and gets submits to dany and the dragons cause even his logic cant dismiss her claim... and the dragons save him some how

ramsay is lying about stannis i dunno how or why he sent the letter but im guessing you trapped and flayed one or all of the survivors for the information

jon is saved somehow... arya turns into a killing machine and is sent back to kill someone for the bravos bank or she escapes after she gets good enough

cersei regains some power... tyrell is shown up or smashed in battle... does anyone care for the tyrells, the old one was the best character out of that family

sansa ....... hmmmm i dunno

the golden company and doyne start smashing shit... and who else is there

oh yeah victarion gets a dragon perhaps he smashes some slavers or something i hope so... and theon, poor theon, him and his sister somehow stay alive and retake the islands or something

i honestly felt really bad for theon after reading his chapter... did he get castrated? he did didnt he... in one chapter he doesnt want anyone to see him naked and in another he talks about ramsay cutting something else off apart from his toes and fingers... and then he wants to fuck mance's spearwife babes

sorry for the ramblings

 

[Keen]

Holy shit I just found out, from reading the Westeros forums, that Bran from the future talks to Jon in A Clash of Kings:

"Jon?
 The call came from behind him, softer than a whisper, but strong too. [...] A Weirwood. Red eyes looked at
 him. Fierce eyes they were, yet glad to see him. The weirwood had his brother’s face. Had his
 brother always had three eyes?
Not always, came the silent shout. Not before the crow.
 He sniffed at the bark, smelled wolf and tree and boy, but behind that there were other
 scents, the rich brown smell of warm earth and the hard grey smell of stone and something
 else, something terrible. Death, he knew. He was smelling death. He cringed back, his hair
 bristling, and bared his fangs.
Don’t be afraid, I like it in the dark. No one can see you, but you can see them. But first
 you have to open your eyes. See? Like this. And the tree reached down and touched him."

This is scary stuff. George RR Martin is a cool dude for keeping everything so fucking consistent.

I thought that was Bran talking from down in the crypts of winterfell when they hid from Theon and Reek? 
But that's cool if it's bran from dance talking.

 

[jon bones]

Holy shit I just found out, from reading the Westeros forums, that Bran from the future talks to Jon in A Clash of Kings:

"Jon?
The call came from behind him, softer than a whisper, but strong too. [...] A Weirwood. Red eyes looked at
him. Fierce eyes they were, yet glad to see him. The weirwood had his brother’s face. Had his
brother always had three eyes?
Not always, came the silent shout. Not before the crow.
He sniffed at the bark, smelled wolf and tree and boy, but behind that there were other
scents, the rich brown smell of warm earth and the hard grey smell of stone and something
else, something terrible. Death, he knew. He was smelling death. He cringed back, his hair
bristling, and bared his fangs.
Don’t be afraid, I like it in the dark. No one can see you, but you can see them. But first
you have to open your eyes. See? Like this. And the tree reached down and touched him."

This is scary stuff. George RR Martin is a cool dude for keeping everything so fucking consistent.

hrmmm

 

[Pokielhl]

Holy shit I just found out, from reading the Westeros forums, that Bran from the future talks to Jon in A Clash of Kings:

"Jon?
The call came from behind him, softer than a whisper, but strong too. [...] A Weirwood. Red eyes looked at
him. Fierce eyes they were, yet glad to see him. The weirwood had his brother’s face. Had his
brother always had three eyes?
Not always, came the silent shout. Not before the crow.
He sniffed at the bark, smelled wolf and tree and boy, but behind that there were other
scents, the rich brown smell of warm earth and the hard grey smell of stone and something
else, something terrible. Death, he knew. He was smelling death. He cringed back, his hair
bristling, and bared his fangs.
Don’t be afraid, I like it in the dark. No one can see you, but you can see them. But first
you have to open your eyes. See? Like this. And the tree reached down and touched him."

This is scary stuff. George RR Martin is a cool dude for keeping everything so fucking consistent.

Ah fuck I completely missed that. And he smelled death. Can that ever be a good thing? Bran=Great Other confirmed.

It also shows that Bran atleast becomes stronger than Bloodraven, as the latter said he couldn't talk to people through the trees.

 

[apana]

That was a dream sequence when Jon was warged into Ghost right? Bran talking to Jon/Ghost back in ACOK is an awesome find.

What's the name of the thread you found it in?

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/53275-adwd-spoilers-bran/page__st__120

I thought that was Bran talking from down in the crypts of winterfell when they hid from Theon and Reek?
But that's cool if it's bran from dance talking.

Yeah that's how I interpreted it at first when I read it, but now it seems very likely that it was Bran from the future. Too many references to red eyes.

Ah fuck I completely missed that. And he smelled death. Can that ever be a good thing? Bran=Great Other confirmed.

It also shows that Bran atleast becomes stronger than Bloodraven, as the latter said he couldn't talk to people through the trees.

Here are some interpretations for Jon's dream in Clash of Kings:

1. Bran sends him that dream when he was stuck in the crypts at Winterfell in Clash of King. This theory seems very unlikely.

2. The most likely theory is that Bran in the future after developing his powers is communicating with Jon.

3. No one is communicating with Jon, he is simply having a vision of the future. One in which he sees what Bran is destined to become.

4. Jon is communicating with someone from the future or present but it's not Bran. Bloodraven in the future has "consumed" Bran and is using his image to talk to Jon. Or that Bloodraven in the present is talking with Jon and is using Bran's image so as to keep him off guard and not raise too many suspicions. The tree is described as having red eyes.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

I thought that was Bran talking from down in the crypts of winterfell when they hid from Theon and Reek? 
But that's cool if it's bran from dance talking.

Interesting.

 

[suzu]

I think it's Bran from the future, but not ADWD. He's still a newbie and afraid of the dark in ADWD.

 

[Nymerio]

At one point Bran mentions that he somehow sent Jon a message in a dream. Don't remember which book it was or if it was that particular vision. I'll re-check that after work.

 

[apana]

There is always the Trunks/DBZ theory, meaning that it is Bran from another dimension talking to Jon. Bran is attempting to change the past but the past wont change for him, he can however create alternate timelines by messing with the past. The story we are reading may actually be an alternate timeline. Maybe the original timeline ends with all the Starks dead and the Others conquering Westeros, Bran is trying to change that.

At one point Bran mentions that he somehow sent Jon a message in a dream. Don't remember which book it was or if it was that particular vision. I'll re-check that after work.

Please do. I'd actually prefer if it was not Bran from the future. I don't like the idea of Bran being a tree and living in the dark for the rest of his life.

 

[Clipjoint]

At one point Bran mentions that he somehow sent Jon a message in a dream. Don't remember which book it was or if it was that particular vision. I'll re-check that after work.

I'm not 100% sure, but I *think* it was after Jon's wolf dream that Bran said he remembered speaking to Jon in a dream. I just have a big problem with the implications of cross-time communication, more-so than even prophecies, so I hope this isn't the case.