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[Alcibiades]

well, the point I made was that compared to LAST YEAR the hype for this title had gone down (from when it was the star), and now it's sharing the spot light... (and I even said it would still sell well)

seems like last year people were raving about this, and this year the attention is spread across several titles...

also, I don't think MGS will be in the top 5 seller this Christmas, I think it might even be outsold by GoldenEye 2 (simply because of name accompying the game) and NFS: Underground 2...

 

[beerbelly]

The game's release date caught me by surprise too. I didn't know it was out until almost a month later. That being said though, the game is just not fun anymore. Gameplay and storyline was unique and fresh back in 1997 but lets get real here; it's 2004. We can't really blame SK.

 

[Deg]

Goldeneye RA could do well but the last Bond from EA was underwhelming by EA standards. I think EA should give up on the liscence now after running it into the ground.

 

[Jumpman]

MGS:TTS bombed because Gamecube's audience isn't fit for the series.

Not because it was developed by SK.
Not because the marketing was poor.
Not because of the quality. (I'd give it a 7/10)

Same with the core Resident Evil series for GC.

Had they been on PS2 I wouldn't expect anything under a million units sold in NA alone.

Twin Snakes sales were unimressive because there wasn't a large contingent of people who wanted a MGS remake. Even hardcore MGS fans couldn't agree whether they wanted it or not. That, along with some of the previously mentioned factors, were the reasons for iits non-blockbuster sales performance. MGS:TT failed to be a blockbuster, but it was not a failure. It will likely sell four to five hundred thousand copies in the U.S. over its entire lifetime.

 

[Jumpman]

well, the point I made was that compared to LAST YEAR the hype for this title had gone down (from when it was the star), and now it's sharing the spot light... (and I even said it would still sell well)

seems like last year people were raving about this, and this year the attention is spread across several titles...

also, I don't think MGS will be in the top 5 seller this Christmas, I think it might even be outsold by GoldenEye 2 (simply because of name accompying the game) and NFS: Underground 2...

MGS3 might be outsold on a cross platform basis by those titles, but not in a PS2 to PS2 comparison.

 

[Alcibiades]

Twin Snakes sales were unimressive because there wasn't a large contingent of people who wanted a MGS remake. Even hardcore MGS fans couldn't agree whether they wanted it or not. That, along with some of the previously mentioned factors, were the reasons for iits non-blockbuster sales performance. MGS:TT failed to be a blockbuster, but it was not a failure. It will likely sell four to five hundred thousand copies in the U.S. over its entire lifetime.

unfortunately it will unlikely sell more than 300,000 lifetime unless Konami continues shipping the title (unlikely considering how they have treated the title so far)...

 

[Chi-Town]

Ha! Just checked the archives. MGS2 Substance and Twin Snakes are almost identical at the 3 month mark. This is surprising, considering that Substance was released during the holiday season, with a full Television ad campaign none the less.

Not that suprising. Substance was overshadowed by Splinter Cell.

 

[SolidSnakex]

MGS3 might be outsold on a cross platform basis by those titles, but not in a PS2 to PS2 comparison.

Exactly, on a crossplatform it's likely that some multiplatform games will pass it up. But not on a PS2 to PS2 comparison. GE2 might not even be close to it even with its multiplatform sales. Especially if it sells like EoN.

 

[Insertia]

Twin Snakes sales were unimressive because there wasn't a large contingent of people who wanted a MGS remake. Even hardcore MGS fans couldn't agree whether they wanted it or not. That, along with some of the previously mentioned factors, were the reasons for iits non-blockbuster sales performance. MGS:TT failed to be a blockbuster, but it was not a failure. It will likely sell four to five hundred thousand copies in the U.S. over its entire lifetime.

People didn't want a MGS remake? I guess all of the jizz that was spilled at E3 2003 and when that first screen was leaked wasn't real.

As far as I remember, it was GC's most wanted and highly hyped game.

And it's going to take a miracle for it to sell half a million copies in its lifetime

 

[Jumpman]

unfortunately it will unlikely sell more than 300,000 lifetime unless Konami continues shipping the title (unlikely considering how they have treated the title so far)...

You're right, it can't sell if it isn't on the shelves. Hopefully Nintendo steps in to push for distrubution as a Player Choice title. At $19.99 Twin Snakes would likely move some copies this holiday season.

 

[Deg]

it's 2004. We can't really blame SK.

I agree a little about the time but its based on the MGS2 engine but still SK did an awful job on their part. ED was a terrible and unfun game alot like Driv3r but without the sales thankfully. I was more impressed by Konami's and the directing of the cutscenes. Graphics should have been better! SK just arent up to par compared to alot of developers in my opinion. I still havent finished MGSTTS but i havent enjoyed any recent so called stealth game anyway.

I think the stealth genre will see lower sales than before. SCPT will sell less than SC1. MGS3 will sell less than MGS2.

As far as I remember, it was GC's most wanted and highly hyped game.

No. Hype is different.

 

[Alcibiades]

MGS3 might be outsold on a cross platform basis by those titles, but not in a PS2 to PS2 comparison.

well, I didn't mean it was getting lost in the PS2 shuffle I was meant the holiday release schedule in general, but to be honest, I think NFSU 2 might outsell it on the PS2 alone...

 

[Jumpman]

People didn't want a MGS remake? I guess all of the jizz that was spilled at E3 2003 and when that first screen was leaked wasn't real.

As far as I remember, it was GC's most wanted and highly hyped game.

And it's going to take a miracle for it to sell half a million copies in its lifetime

It was hyped to hell by fanboys on videogame message boards, but it never was on the mainstream's watchlist. The sales speak for themselves. If there was so much hype, it would have done better. Look at Driver 3 for your example. There was no jizzfest as a result of E3 2003. The overall reception seemed to be an overwhelming SO WHAT from most people.

RE:0 had a very simular start to Twin Snakes, and it has already passed 400,000. If MGS:TT stays on store shelves, it WILL continue to sell.

 

[Jumpman]

but still SK did an awful job on their part. ED was a terrible and unfun game alot like Driv3r but without the sales thankfully. I was more impressed by Konami's and the directing of the cutscenes. Graphics should have been better! SK just arent up to par compared to alot of developers in my opinion.

Opinion alert!!!

On another note go go Harvest Moon.

 

[ge-man]

It doesn't matter what job SK did, plenty of people already have strong negative opinion about them. That's what the game, not SK themselves. I think they did a solid job with all things considered.

 

[dark10x]

well, I didn't mean it was getting lost in the PS2 shuffle I was meant the holiday release schedule in general, but to be honest, I think NFSU 2 might outsell it on the PS2 alone...

You come off as if you are slagging MGS3 now...

The fact of the matter is, 2004 is going to be one of the absolutely BIGGEST gaming years we've ever seen. Dare I say more important than even 1998? On one hand, you have long awaited sequels to some of the most popular games ever made. One the other, you also have lots of NEW properties showing up and even sequels to NOT so popular games that happen to have a diehard fans.

I don't think there has ever been a Fall/Winter where I want so many games with each game likely to be AAA.

MGS3 could not POSSIBLY stand alone in the spotlight. There are just too many high quality games coming out this fall. People ARE hyped for the game...but they are hyped for many other titles as well.

The game WILL sell a ton and stands as good a chance to do well as RE4 and Halo 2.

Why are you picking only on MGS3? The hype for Prime 2 just isn't all that huge...but you aren't talking about that game in such a manner. This isn't Gamecube, where a massive title like this COULD end up selling well below expectations. There is enough room for GTA, NFSU2, and MGS3 on the PS2...

It seems to me that you believe the MGS name to be worth very little as a result of TTS sales. Gamecube is not a good way to guage the popularity of a series...

 

[Alcibiades]

woah, I wasn't picking on Snake Eater, just saying it's not in the spotlight it was in last year...

and I was responding to SSX's question on whether it would be a Top 5 title, not simply making out-of-nowhere statement on sales...

BTW, I don't think Echoes or RE4 will sell as well as Snake Eater, but they will be big compared to other GCN titles...

the reason I didn't mention them (and I agree the hype for them is pretty muted, and I'm even surprised by how much attention RE4 gets sometimes) was cause their anticipation status would not affect The Twin Snakes, while Snake Eater possibly would...

how would the MGS name be of "little worth" if I admit Snake Eater would sell well, but did not currently have the hype it seemed to have last year...

I think Snake Eater will outsell RE4 based on userbase size alone, but I doubt it seriously has a chance to do anywhere near what Halo 2 does, considering the performance of Sons of Liberty compared to Halo 1...

I don't see how GCN is a bad way to gauge the popularity of a series... Even 3rd party exclusive games with "bad" sales (REmake, RE: 0, Crystal Chronicles, etc..) are still more impressive than the dismal Twin Snake sales... no matter how "off" the game is from the regular series, you'd think the name alone could sell the game, as many had indicated in the Twin Snakes/Crystal Chronicles prediction thread a few months back... of course you can't judge a series on GCN if you're looking for million sellers, but you have to admit that most popular series on other systems do decent numbers on GCN, and in this case Twin Snakes didn't...

that said, I stated early in the thread that marketing and awareness was the main reason for the performance of the game... I don't think MGS3 hype would have had a tremendous effect either way, but if the hype level for the Snake Eater was where it was at last year's E3, I imagine some of that might have rubbed off on Twin Snakes...

 

[SolidSnakex]

"I think Snake Eater will outsell RE4 based on userbase size alone, but I doubt it seriously has a chance to do anywhere near what Halo 2 does, considering the performance of Sons of Liberty compared to Halo 1..."

But who has said it would? MGS3 will sell along the lines of the other games in the series which is basically 5-6 million worldwide.

 

[Alcibiades]

"I think Snake Eater will outsell RE4 based on userbase size alone, but I doubt it seriously has a chance to do anywhere near what Halo 2 does, considering the performance of Sons of Liberty compared to Halo 1..."

But who has said it would?

edit: or maybe I misread his statement, woops, yeah, he's saying it has a chance to do well, and so do RE4 and Halo 2...

ok, woops :/

 

[dark10x]

woah, I wasn't picking on Snake Eater, just saying it's not in the spotlight it was in last year...

MY point is that it could not possible BE in the spotlight like last year BECAUSE there are simply too many high quality titles slated for this year. I mean, there are very good titles coming out this fall that I will flat out SKIP simply because they aren't important enough to me...and I'm sure that this will occur with all titles. GTA-SA, for example, should be great...but I'm not buying it right away simply because it doesn't interest me NEARLY as much as the other titles. Normally, I would buy it upon release, but I probably won't touch it for a few months...

Lowered hype pretty much applies to ALL games this holiday season...

I'd say Halo 2 is perhaps the most anticipated title this fall, though.

 

[Alcibiades]

MY point is that it could not possible BE in the spotlight like last year BECAUSE there are simply too many high quality titles slated for this year.

yeah, that's what I said, the field is pretty crowded...

edit: I disagree about lowered hype applying to all games though, for some reason (and I'm not even a Halo fan or anything), it seems that Halo 2 hype has gone up significantly from last year...

 

[dark10x]

yeah, that's what I said, the field is pretty crowded...

edit: I disagree about lowered hype applying to all games though, for some reason (and I'm not even a Halo fan or anything), it seems that Halo 2 hype has gone up significantly from last year...

Yes, I agree about Halo 2...but that's pretty much the ONLY exception.

 

[SolidSnakex]

yeah, that's what I said, the field is pretty crowded...

It's crowded when you throw in the games that aren't really popular. MGS, GT, GTA, and HALO are the exceptions though. They have installed and loyal fanbases so their sales are always going to be big. There are alot of games that will be overlooked and might not sell as much as they could but those 4 games won't be one of them.

 

[Mrbob]

well, thing is it seems to be getting lost in the crowd of all the fall blockbusters (especially in November against Halo 2, RE4, Echoes, GT4, PoP 2, etc...) compared to last year when it was basically been talked about and anticipated...

I know you have partially talked about this already, but I think you overstate the importance of some of these games. RE4, Echoes, PoP2, they don't have the same kind of pull Metal Gear Solid games have. Halo 2, GT4, should do better than MGS3.

MGS3 could be in the top 5 PS2 games this holiday season. GTA:SA, GT4, NFSU2, Madden 2005 will all more than lkely be ahead of MGS3. Although I am interested to see how NSFU2 does going up against GT4.

Oh, and just so I am consistent, I think many of these PS2 holiday releases are gonna take a chunk out of GTA:SA sales. I see it underperforming compared to Vice City.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Oh, and just so I am consistent, I think many of these PS2 holiday releases are gonna take a chunk out of GTA:SA sales. I see it underperforming compared to Vice City.

 

[FortNinety]

I'm gonna buy TTS when it comes down to $20 and even then, I'll wait about three years to play it since I also agree that a remake is way too soon.

 

[Lord Error]

well, the point I made was that compared to LAST YEAR the hype for this title had gone down (from when it was the star)

Er, huh? I don't remember the game ever had as much hype as when they released that last E3 trailer. At least here, it was pretty much a jizzfest, way more than last years trailers accomplished.

 

[NWO]

How did MGS: Substance on Xbox sell compared to Twin Snakes?

MGS: Substance sold 162,005 on the Xbox in the first 3 months and it had a holiday release to help it get more sales. Looks like we should drop all mature titles from the Xbox because Metal Gear doesn't sell on the Xbox.

 

[davis]

Fact - Nintendo 3rd party games sell like crap thus MGS:TS sales

Fact - MGS:TS looked worse than the older MGS2 even on progressive scan on a hdtv

Fact - Metroid Prime 2 woun't sell as much as any of those big titles mentioned, regardless of the 1st ones quality (higher than Halo on gamerankings!!) its not a sales blockbuster like the 1st tier titles mentioned.

Fact - did I mention Nintenedo Gamecube 3rd parties titles sell like shit?

 

[ge-man]

Fact--You're a troll.

 

[dark10x]

MGS: Substance sold 162,005 on the Xbox in the first 3 months and it had a holiday release to help it get more sales. Looks like we should drop all mature titles from the Xbox because Metal Gear doesn't sell on the Xbox.

Your comment suggests that the same has been said of GC (in a serious manner). Nobody is suggesting that developers should cease the creation of MATURE titles on GC. At most, people are suggesting that Metal Gear should no longer appear on GC.

Of course, the XBOX situation was worse. The game was a shoddy port of an older PS2 title that went up against Splinter Cell during a crowded holiday season. While I feel that Splinter Cell is absolutely inferior, the mindset was quite different back when it was released. Your comment just doesn't even WORK when you consider that MGS2-S was dominated by another mature title.

TTS was released during a slow period with no other big GC games in its way. It was also a remake of a classic, which is quite different than a poorly coded port.

Fact - MGS:TS looked worse than the older MGS2 even on progressive scan on a hdtv

In some ways, yes...and in some ways no. MGS2 looks GREAT on my HDTV, even without progscan. I was actually quite shocked. MGS-TTS, on the other hand, clearly gains some improvements from 480p...but at the same time, the game is too grainy and dithered (which becomes much more obvious in 480p). The lack of virtually ALL post-processing blurring is an even bigger blow...

 

[davis]

Fact--You're a troll.

you know its all true, what isn't true ?

 

[ge-man]

you know its all true, what isn't true ?

It doesn't matter if it's true or not, your post did not appear to argue about MGS:TTS perfomance. I have no problem with your views--it's presentation that led me to believe that you were trolling.

 

[SantaC]

Harvest moon should outsell that garbage. The last great Metal Gear was for the NES and putting it on a Nintendo platform again doesn't change that fact.

so true

 

[SolidSnakex]

Fact - Metroid Prime 2 woun't sell as much as any of those big titles mentioned, regardless of the 1st ones quality (higher than Halo on gamerankings!!) its not a sales blockbuster like the 1st tier titles mentioned.

MP2 is really a game that can go either way. Nintendo simply can't put a marketing campaign together like they did witht he original and expect the same kind of performance. They're going to have to do alot more this time. But they've also got RE4 and MP2 to market this holiday.

 

[NWO]

Of course, the XBOX situation was worse. The game was a shoddy port of an older PS2 title that went up against Splinter Cell during a crowded holiday season. While I feel that Splinter Cell is absolutely inferior, the mindset was quite different back when it was released. Your comment just doesn't even WORK when you consider that MGS2-S was dominated by another mature title.

TTS was released during a slow period with no other big GC games in its way. It was also a remake of a classic, which is quite different than a poorly coded port.

 

[SantaC]

MP2 is really a game that can go either way. Nintendo simply can't put a marketing campaign together like they did witht he original and expect the same kind of performance. They're going to have to do alot more this time. But they've also got RE4 and MP2 to market this holiday.

I don't understand why Metroid Prime is a failure. I has sold about 1.2 million in the US which are good numbers. I know the numbers in Japan is bad, but it has always been that way with Metroid. I am curious about Prime numbers in Europe because I am sure it's another million there.


If Nintendo was so disappointed with the Prime sales, why did they make another sequel this fast? I think MP2 will sell more than Prime simply because now the gamers are introduced to the Metroid Franchise again after a 8 year absence, plus that the 3D view really worked.

 

[SolidSnakex]

I don't understand why Metroid Prime is a failure. I has sold about 1.2 million in the US which are good numbers. I know the numbers in Japan is bad, but it has always been that way with Metroid. I am curious about Prime numbers in Europe because I am sure it's another million there.


If Nintendo was so disappointed with the Prime sales, why did they make another sequel this fast?

I didn't say they were disappointing. I'm saying this holiday is so packed that they can't put together a similar marketing campaign and expect it to do as well as the original did.

 

[dark10x]

Err, NWO...I don't see how damage control applies here...

My comment certainly is a lot more accurate than the sorry attempt at a troll that you pulled...

Pulling out a tired phrase (such as damage control) is already annoying enough as it is...but to use it when it doesn't apply is just sad (and suggests that you've been looking for a chance to use a specific image). Kinda sad...

 

[SantaC]

damn you quoted me before I edited my post

 

[SantaC]

I didn't say they were disappointing. I'm saying this holiday is so packed that they can't put together a similar marketing campaign and expect it to do as well as the original did.

I am not really pointing at you, but the general understanding is that Prime sales are disappointing, and I think it's because so many compares it to halo :/

 

[SolidSnakex]

I am not really pointing at you, but the general understanding is that Prime sales are disappointing, and I think it's because so many compares it to halo :/

I think the sales for MP became disappointing (for some) when SC came out of nowhere and rolled right over it. Alot of that once again had to do with Nintendo really bad marketing job for the game.

 

[SantaC]

I think the sales for MP became disappointing (for some) when SC came out of nowhere and rolled right over it. Alot of that once again had to do with Nintendo really bad marketing job for the game.

That is true. It's still a mystery for me how SC slaughtered Prime. I have played both games and Prime is waaaaay better...

 

[NWO]

Err, NWO...I don't see how damage control applies here...

My comment certainly is a lot more accurate than the sorry attempt at a troll that you pulled...

Pulling out a tired phrase (such as damage control) is already annoying enough as it is...but to use it when it doesn't apply is just sad (and suggests that you've been looking for a chance to use a specific image). Kinda sad...

Cool got it.

Damage control is a tired phrase and you bash me for using it while pulling out an equally tired phrase like troll but you find it acceptable.

I'm sorry I must have missed that double standard memo that was sent out.

 

[Deleted member 284]

Err, NWO...I don't see how damage control applies here...

My comment certainly is a lot more accurate than the sorry attempt at a troll that you pulled...

Pulling out a tired phrase (such as damage control) is already annoying enough as it is...but to use it when it doesn't apply is just sad (and suggests that you've been looking for a chance to use a specific image). Kinda sad...

Actually, you can see why he says your attempting some sort of Damage control

TTS: made by SK who didn't do a good job. (-)
Substance: made by Konami who didn't do a good job.(-)

Advantage is defently Xbox in that bad Konami beats bad SK any day of the week.

TTS: released during slow period of the year (-)
Substance: released during Holidays (+) against the runaway SC (-)

No Advantage given

TTS: not marketed
Substance: plenty of print and tv ads

Advantage: Xbox

TTS: port of an old PSX game that fans wanted
Substance: port of recent PS2 game that fans wanted

Advantage: GC

With the advantages that Substance had, it did rather poorly in comparison with the lesser TTS

 

[dark10x]

Cool got it.

Damage control is a tired phrase and you bash me for using it while pulling out an equally tired phrase like troll but you find it acceptable.

I'm sorry I must have missed that double standard memo that was sent out.

If, in fact, my usage of the word "troll" was equivalent to the posting of a picture relating to that action, I might agree with you...

Of course, your inability to dispute my original points only further confirms their accuracy...

 

[Red Dolphin]

It's weird, where i live (australia), those 2 games are insanely rare...i had to preorder both, after that they never got any copies of either game in at my eb or any other stores in my town. I asked the guy in eb the other day if they were getting more TTS in and he said the game was discontinued...no idea why

Gamecube sales are abysmal (sp?) here in Australia and they basically only have one shipment of a particular game and then discontinue it straight away at many places including EB! Everything or Nothing is near impossible to find too. Try online stores like www.dvdcrave.com.au

I didn't say they were disappointing. I'm saying this holiday is so packed that they can't put together a similar marketing campaign and expect it to do as well as the original did.

I totally agree. I fear Metroid is going to underpeform quite a lot due to the many other AAA games on the market. It just doesn't have the selling power of GT, GTA, Halo 2, Snake Eater and possibly RE4.

As for the original topic at hand.. I agree that sales were definately due to a lack of awareness of the title. Well it certainly had a big part in it.

 

[Semjaza Azazel]

Ignoring this MGS nonsense, I'm glad that A Wonderful Life is selling still. It got almost no interest on this board when it was released it seemed... Great game.

 

[AniHawk]

The Twin Snakes
Total: 158,635

And you all thought I was crazy for my initial prediction at the beginning of the year.

WHO'S CRAZY NOW!?

 

[Shoryuken]

None of this really even matters. The sales of Twin Snakes were inconsequential to whether Konami would have given GC more support. If the Twin Snakes would have sold great, it would still be a little too late in the generation for Konami to give the GC any significant support. So at least Nintendo only fans can take solace that the game sold like shit, which equals less money for Konami.