Abused 16 year old shoots her 15 year old brother
- Thread starter MikeDown
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Winterfang
Banned
Well this wasn't done in self defense. She went out of her way to kill the brother. I hope she gets a got lawyer, the family has to pay for what they did.
Where is the proof that the brother raped the sister? Murder is murder. Try and convict, and then look for leniency in the sentencing if it's warranted.
The parents ought to be charged as well, with neglect or child abuse for allowing the girl to be locked up with only a blanket and a pee bucket.
The parents ought to be charged as well, with neglect or child abuse for allowing the girl to be locked up with only a blanket and a pee bucket.
The brother is dead so how can he go to jail? Also I can't have a go at the brother until we know more. Yes what he did was disgusting but for a 13 or 12 year old to think having sex with your sis and locking her up is ok. He must have been either abused himself or seen abuse going on his whole life.
I think we will find locking her up will probably be the least disgusting thing that the parents did.
Sorry ignore that, my brain went for a second.
Yea we do need to know more. I would bet he was abused too. All the kids probably led poor lives.
- Girl was molested by her uncle over a long period (there were videos on a USB...)
- Girl was locked up for weeks
- Girl had tried committing suicide before
- Girl was beat by her brother
- Incest..
Those are some seriously fucked up things and it's likely the tip of the iceberg.
Yes.
You can't just go around killing people for the bad that's done to you. That's why we have a legal system in place. Child welfare services seem to have failed her but it's hard to judge without hearing the entire story. Apparently the siblings were caught having sex?
Anyway, I sympathize with the girl and I believe in self defense but this wasn't a case of self defense and you can't just murder someone no matter how shitty that person was to you. If he was threatening her with a weapon sure, defend yourself. But otherwise? No.
Ummm, no. People kill for less. Don't be so naive. You have people in countries killing their siblings and children for dishonoring the family name and other nonsense.
IndoAssassin
Banned
Well there is a case for claiming mental insanity. Hopefully she gets a good lawyer
Unbound By Death
Member
I'd do the same if I was locked up for 20 days.
Man, posts like this just make me feel worse.
fastford58
Member
Good shoot.
Come at me.
Come at me.
Beren the Empty-Handed
Member
The legal proceedings are just a formality right? These girls don't need jail, they need rehabilitation and some positive influences.
The parents can go right to jail though. Absolutely atrocious.
The parents can go right to jail though. Absolutely atrocious.
Unbound By Death
Member
In a 6 billion population it makes sense some people would be Judge Dredd.
Dreams-Visions
Member
good luck with that bro.
Yes, she is a murderer and should be convicted with her hard pressed situation in mind. And this is the more interesting part. Florida really needs to do something about this. A child should always have the option and the information to go to local law enforcement and/or child care services. Advertise this everywhere and in school "if you have problems, talk with the police and child service about it."
Also put the parents in the pit. This is awful.
Also put the parents in the pit. This is awful.
POWERSPHERE
Member
What a sad and hopeless situation.
Shooting someone is his sleep is not self-defense, she murdered her brother when he was no threat to anyone in any way, shape or form! Of course what happened to her is horrible and she shouldn't be tried as an adult but she was out of the room and out of the house, she could have called the cops but she didn't, instead she got a weapon with the intent to kill and did it, that's inexcusable and she has to be punished for that.
People look at what happened to her and despite those things being horrific we shouldn't assume that she was the only victim of abuse in that house, I doubt her brother's life was all that great, he may have grown up thinking it's normal to lock her up so he did it, that's fucked up but he didn't deserve to die for that.
She got out of her room, broke into her parents' room, had her 11 year old sister stand guard, walked into the living room after she got the gun, sends her siblings out of the room and then murdered her sleeping brother, then she left with her older sister leaving the 3 year old behind with her brother's body.
The true guilty party are the parents and I hope they get punished severely but in the end what the girl did to her brother was worse than what her brother did to her, if she deserves our empathy and cookies and being told everything is fine and her life will be better now then her brother deserves it too except he won't get it because he's dead, there's no coming back from that.
And I'm not saying she should be locked up for life or even close to it, definitely not, the circumstances played a big part in what she did but the fact that she murdered someone can't be ignored, that's not how you deal with a situation like that.
So then... how would you punish her? Lock her up? Just go "Sorry, we know you've been abused, neglected, suffered so much psychological trauma and tried to kill yourself before but we're also going to lock you away now."
It's easy to say stuff like this when we have no idea how much of an emotional toil was taken on her mind. We're seeing things from an outside perspective after all.
I'm not sure I can totally say she shouldn't be punished but at the same time, I can't just say "lock her away". This is an absolutely tragic situation.
My main worry is that she will find a way to kill herself if she's not given proper psychiatric treatment. And since they are considering trying her as an adult, I'm not confident she will be given that help.
I feel horrible for these girls, I really do.
Zoe
Member
But if they treat her as a juvenile, she will be aged out of the system in less than three years. I'm not sure that's long enough to rehabilitate her.
Imagine what will happen if we let murderers go because they suffered trauma, real or not. We can't allow murder. It is pretty difficult in this case and I feel for the judges and jury who have to handle the case, but we can't make murder ok. Or in this case, the States can't do that. Doesn't mean that her suffering should be ignored in the judgement.
I wouldn't put her into jail, but an confined mental institution. Both to atone and to help her to work with this.
I would lock her up in mental institution, she needs therapy and can get it there and it serves as punishment at the same time.
I'm not saying "20 years, hurr durr", it can be two years or maybe one but there needs to be some sort of punishment, not punishing her at all would send the wrong signal, she is a victim but she also became a perpetrator in the end, it's tragic but it can't be ignored in my opinion.
Some people probably wouldn't considered Mental institution punishment. (not accepting anything less than normal prison)
That said I would agree about putting her into one, she does need therapy and she needs to be kept an eye on so she doesn't try to take her own life over this.
I really hope she'll be okay one day. Now that she's away from her parents and hopefully getting the help she needs. I also hope the 3 and 11 year olds get psychiatric help that they will need.
This situation is just...
Is the captor sleeping or not? If the kidnapped person kills him in his sleep it is murder. If he wakes up and attacks her and dies in the struggle, it's self-defense. The immediate danger is important. If she could get away without killing him, she is not justified in killing him.
I think at some point you're going to have to consider her mental health at the time and whether the brother's murder was solely her fault as well as whether she is a danger to anyone else. The past abuses should make you want to consider the situation more carefully than just "yup, she's a murderer, lock her up" and look for alternative solutions. She will need some sort of therapy, that much is obvious.
King Tubby
Member
Assuming all of these terrible things that happened to her are true I don't think she should serve jail-time. It doesn't have to be straight up my-life-is-in-danger self-defense for a homicide to be justified. The most apt comparison might be Battered person syndrome. At the very least she has a defense of diminished responsibility against murder.
To people who say that shooting someone in their sleep is never justified homicide, how would you feel if that's what Elizabeth Fritzl did to her father Josef? This girl has been victimized all her life by the people who were supposed to be looking after her. Punishing her is not justice.
Her attorney could probably argue that she had no reasonable belief she could get away. Even if she ran away from home she may have feared that the police would catch up to her and bring her home only for the abuse to be repeated or exacerbated.
To people who say that shooting someone in their sleep is never justified homicide, how would you feel if that's what Elizabeth Fritzl did to her father Josef? This girl has been victimized all her life by the people who were supposed to be looking after her. Punishing her is not justice.
Her attorney could probably argue that she had no reasonable belief she could get away. Even if she ran away from home she may have feared that the police would catch up to her and bring her home only for the abuse to be repeated or exacerbated.
Terrible in what way?
Don't say that, we don't know his story and that's important before we judge someone. He did some bad things but so did she.
If all we knew about her is that she shot her brother in his sleep and left her 3 year old sister alone with the body in the house most people wouldn't have nice things to say about her.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
She also could have told the police what happened and not have to face any repercussions as the child services take the children away. I don't blame her after that much abuse I doubt she was thinking logically, but there was certainly a much better way to do things.
timetokill
Banned
Not necessarily...
I'd say she could have a reasonable suspicion that the police weren't going to do fuck all to help her since they didn't do much beforehand.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
Getting locked up for days on end isn't the same as an uncle molesting you, one is directly attributable to the parents maltreatment, does not necessarily mean the parents maltreated them. All the girl has to do is press charges and it would be far more difficult to simply ignore.
Valkyr Junkie
Member
The parents were arrested immediately after this went down.
timetokill
Banned
1. The girl already had an experience with the cops investigating her situation in general and they didn't charge her parents
2. She was literally abused and a prisoner in her own home. who knows what they were telling her. She might have been convinced that she would be punished even worse by her brother or parents if she went straight to the cops.
3. She's a child. You're expecting her to analyze her own abuse in a mature, detached, rational manner? Come on.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
Kinda hard to feel bad for the brother if that's what he was doing to her. I"m sorry but at 16 you're kinda old enough to know if you're being a jerk.
Not if he was brought up abused / watching abuse his whole life he wouldn't.
She's the one who shot her brother in his sleep. She could have ran off while he was sleeping and called the cops, or just run away like she did right now. She has no sympathy from me, she killed someone and now she has to pay the consequences for it which is being locked up.
You're right. Had to think about it. She could've escaped. But I can understand how she could think this was what had to happen.
?
The younger sister unlocked the door for her. She had the ability to escape with her sister but instead she goes outside, removes the air conditioner to get in her parent's bedroom just so she could get a gun and kill someone in their sleep.
She didn't have to kill anyone.
King Tubby
Member
She's a 15 year old who has likely been abused her entire life by her closest family. The evidence will come out but I can't hold her responsible for murder given all the terrible things that she's endured and the effects that has on a child's psyche.
PaperFlame
Member
You're thinking she's a healthy person who understands morals.
The parents neglected the kids, and according to the article shes been through terrible things. Obviously any of those kids are not sane in the head.
Anyone that should be punished is the parents. The kids need therapy, and to be taken in a mental institution.
Life isn't black and white, and throwing her into jail doesn't make sense at all.
No shit sherlock that's why I edited that post. I didn't think about it enough at first ... she had the opportunity to escape. Sorry, intoxicated right now.
BuggyDClown
Member
Theres just nothing productive to be said. This is a tragic situation and that poor girl and her sisters have a very tough life ahead of them.
This is just all around terrible.
As has already been said, she may have felt let down by the cops given her history with them. She may have believed that they would do nothing and she would be sent back to her parents and brother to endure much harsher punishments, punishments which she has already tried to end by killing herself. Also, at the end of the day she is a 15 year old with a highly traumatic past, you can't just apply the same reasoning and punishments as a mentally healthy adult. To get to the point where she kills her sibling, it would indicate how horrific her past was, so it's fairly callous of you to say that you have no sympathy for her.
But it seems a lot of people in this thread hold a 16 year old boy who was abused as well responsible for locking her in a room and mistreating her. I don't think that's right, he's a victim just as much as she was.
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