EzekelRAGE
Member
A little defensive, but not extremely defensive as CB puts it.
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Ace Attorney [Mafia] |OT| Turnabout Scum
- Thread starter Sorian
- Start date
A little defensive, but not extremely defensive as CB puts it.
Being vague with your wording in your defenses is not helping your case.
Barrylocke
Member
Ok. I'm still legit confused and I thought what needed to be pointed out was obvious, but maybe it's just a thing digging in my mind and you didn't notice it. So let's unpack this a bit.
You said that the reason that you were questioning the CrimsonFist vote on Zubz is because others did votes for shits and giggles and theirs "caught your eye of suspicion". Let's ignore that "it caught your eye" can be an easy and ultimately loaded thing to say without going into specifics about what struck you as weird.
This is basically a joke vote, no reasoning, just votes. I'd label this as Shits and Giggles as you did.
Squidyj's seems to be a reference to past games, and CrimsonFist makes me think the same because his answer to "Why are we voting for Xam? by Ri'Orius was "He's Xam." and he moved the vote later. Shits and Giggles.
No reason. No explanation. Just a vote. There's no Shits. No Giggles. Certainly no Substance. It's the start of the game so this means nothing, however...
This is a legit vote with legit reasons. "They haven't talked yet" isn't the best reasons this early in the game of course, but it's far from weird to cast votes to cajole people into talking. It's certainly the most sensible vote that was done before your claim of weirdness here.
So again, I ask, why did this one bother you and not the one where Kalor said nothing but a vote?
Also, looking through the posts to make this post I realized that CrimsonFist also noted that you ignored the Kalor vote on Hipster Cthulhu and focused on the CrimsonFist vote on Zubz. And of course there is more suspicion on Kalor for the vote on Hipster Cthulhu in its own right.
Barrylocke
Member
I didn't respond to TheWorthyEdge because his post was wrong. The only person I voted for was him (and I was pretty clear in explaining why I did). I can only assume he thought he was actually responding to CrimsonFist asking why he voted for Zubz.
TheWorthyEdge
Member
I did actually think I was responding to Crimson XD
Kalor is obviously just a vote to throw out there, and looking at Crimson's vote for Zubz I don't really see anything as "weird" so it was a bad adjective. It was also the last vote that I saw that struck me so I commented on it.
I still don't know why Crimson was trying to make Zubz talk by voting for him. What was he expecting Zubz to say? Those votes, the ones that are like "I want to vote for X because I want them to talk", especially on the first day when there really isn't anything to talk to strike me as somewhat odd.
CrimsonFist
Member
It was essentially an RNG vote, just directed at someone who hadn't posted at that point, because I figured that would be more useful than a vote on Xam. Seeing as it got some reactions and generated a bit of discussion, I'd say that it was fairly successful.
TheWorthyEdge
Member
Fair enough. Conversation in mafia is good.
I'm not berating you for voting for him btw, I just wanted to see why you did so.
CornBurrito
Member
Guh. I'm still in the same boat I was in this morning. Edge and Crimson both raised good points, and Kalor explained his vote, too.
So... Is this up to a roll of the dice?
.gif)
No? I mean I found a scum I think.
RobotNinjaHornets
Banned
You haven't given me any reason not think you don't hold a grudge *narrows eyes*
That said you do appear to be making potentially useful arguments so that's good.
UNVOTE
New vote will come later
Pls, you made this for ONUW 2 or 3. I wasn't in AC, I hadn't graced you all with my presence yet
I was a filthy liar in that game, picture is accurate.
Ah yeah that's true, damn my memory
You seem awfully confident. I mean he did have a point in his initial defense, we're still on day 1, we know basically nothing. He might've been a bit overly defensive, but that could just be us reading a different tone to what was intended. This is the internet after all.
That said, the saying it was a trap strikes me as a bit odd, if only because I feel like he should know that it's unlikely that other mafia would jump into defend Stanley this early on as it might just be their undoing later on.
That said, this:
The fuck are you talking about? How is saying what amounts to "Yo, it's still the first day, all votes are basically random or did I miss something?" anti-town behaviour?
Hmm.
CornBurrito
Member
I read sarcasm in his "Did I miss something?" post. That, and in general being very defensive when people call you out on a vote isn't exactly pro-town.
CrimsonFist
Member
I don't think that the RNG vote is overly damning, and I don't think that reacting the way he did to my comment is either. The "gambit" on the other hand, is really odd, and comes as a way to try to give positive spin. Subsequent reactions have been inconsistent too, trying to downplay how much of an "overreaction" it was, whilst also doubling down on the gambit claim.
Whilst I'm not quite as convinced as CornBurrito, I do think that EzekelRAGE is probably the best lynch candidate so far.
On another topic:
I worded this fairly badly, what I meant was that weak pokes like what Kalor was doing look kind of scummy. Also I'm re-quoting this because I don't want it to go overlooked.
Also, I understand if she doesn't want to comment to avoid bandwaggoing, but I do think that Scrafty should give some sort of reads list before the end of the day on the chance she does die tonight.
Whilst I'm not quite as convinced as CornBurrito, I do think that EzekelRAGE is probably the best lynch candidate so far.
On another topic:
I worded this fairly badly, what I meant was that weak pokes like what Kalor was doing look kind of scummy. Also I'm re-quoting this because I don't want it to go overlooked.
Also, I understand if she doesn't want to comment to avoid bandwaggoing, but I do think that Scrafty should give some sort of reads list before the end of the day on the chance she does die tonight.
CrimsonFist
Member
Revisiting my previous votes too:
Xam where are you? Please comment more, this isn't like you.
Zubz: Ignoring the discussion on Ezekel is a big red flag if Ezekel ends up flipping scum. Aside from that, he didn't seem overly happy about me leaving my vote on him either. Not that I see that as overly scummy, but it's not like other people are constantly switching their votes around.
Matt Attack: Hasn't really been active much at all. You can say that you haven't had much to say, but that's really not that helpful, and I shouldn't need to poke just to get a comment.
Xam where are you? Please comment more, this isn't like you.
Zubz: Ignoring the discussion on Ezekel is a big red flag if Ezekel ends up flipping scum. Aside from that, he didn't seem overly happy about me leaving my vote on him either. Not that I see that as overly scummy, but it's not like other people are constantly switching their votes around.
Matt Attack: Hasn't really been active much at all. You can say that you haven't had much to say, but that's really not that helpful, and I shouldn't need to poke just to get a comment.
EzekelRAGE
Member
You read it as sarcasm, RNH didn't. *It wasn't btw. Just like you read that whole post in a way to fit your extremely defensive narrative, while Crimson didnt read it as that defensive. Crimson I included your post in that post in my defense, not to say "Crimson doesn't think I should be questioned on this" but to prove how the post was interpreted.
How have I been inconsistent? Even with Squid/Roy piling on sayin they don't like the reasoning, how I didnt let it cook long enough, I still said it was a gambit.
1. On the downplaying of the "overreaction", the bulk of CB's theory relies on how the post is read.
2. How did I double down on it? Was I suppose to lie and change my story?
====
Also, Ri hasn't commented on anything else except to dogpile on me as well.
EzekelRAGE
Member
Not directed at Zubs specifically, but it seems a couple have stopped posting since CB brought this to "court" and asked for opinions. My guess is they can say they had no parts of this if it should go through for when I flip town. They can point the fingers at whoever were in favor of the lynch in the first place.
Ri offered nothing, just dogpiled. Xam isn't here. No responses from Palm I think.
CornBurrito
Member
I would like to applaud RNH for participating in the discussion even though he disagrees with me. In fact, I want everyone to participate whether they agree or not.
If you disagree with me and Ezekiel flips scum, that doesn't make you scum. There may very well be legitimate reasons to disagree with me. Likewise, if you agree with me and I end up wrong that doesn't make you scum either.
The worst thing you could do at this early stage of the game is to not participate in the discussion though.
If you disagree with me and Ezekiel flips scum, that doesn't make you scum. There may very well be legitimate reasons to disagree with me. Likewise, if you agree with me and I end up wrong that doesn't make you scum either.
The worst thing you could do at this early stage of the game is to not participate in the discussion though.
TheWorthyEdge
Member
Who is Corn accusing?
CornBurrito
Member
You fuckin serious?
EzekelRAGE
Member
Me, because I posted this:
In response to Crimson questioning me doing a random vote.
CB says that is "extremely defensive" and I must be scum. Crim/Roy/Squid and a few others say it being a gambit play didn't make any sense to them.
TheWorthyEdge
Member
Damn cuz.
Didn't have much time to look for it. Thought it was Ezekial, but didn't know for sure.
Now I do
TheWorthyEdge
Member
Huh. Can't seem to say I agree with you @ all CB. Yeah I'm not a fan of voting rights off the bat when Day 1 starts, but I don't see anything overly defensive.
If anything I was more defensive then him. Lol
If anything I was more defensive then him. Lol
CornBurrito
Member
Personally I found the "it was all a gambit" post the most damning, and that alone is enough for me to place a vote.
RobotNinjaHornets
Banned
Ah right, that makes your angle make more sense, fair enough
I think this is pretty much my perspective, though I'm even less convinced and I feel like downplaying the overreacting is more genuine than spin
If no other plausible theories manifest by this time tomorrow, either through me or someone else, I'll probably vote for him. But a day is a long time in...politics? That's not right.
Aw thx bebz
CornBurrito
Member
As for being overdramatic. This is a game. I'm having fun. Have you guys even played the game series?
EzekelRAGE
Member
Played it around a year ago on my phone, always meant to go back to it. Was a 3 Ace games. My last case was something about a samurai on a movie lot.
CrimsonFist
Member
In the last game I played, when we looked back at people voting on someone who flipped scum, the other scum were the ones who kind of avoided commenting, at least until poked, rather than those for or against the lynch. Hence why I said if you flip scum it looks suspicious.
EzekelRAGE
Member
I was bringing up that when i flip town, you should look at them anyway if they are avoiding commenting at all.
so you're uhhh pretty resigned to being lynched today then? no more of a defense?
EzekelRAGE
Member
What else is there to say? Pretty sure I've made a comment for a majority of what CB has thrown my way. No use in continuing to repeat what I've already posted. Even when ppl claimed the post wasnt so defensive to warrant a lynching he said "the gambit is the real damning evidence". Which I already explained was a mistake (almost like his gambit earlier). I've brought up, in several posts, that how he read my posts isn't the same way another person read it or I meant it.
I've made obseravations about ppl who stopped commenting when this all happened and ppl who just seemed to dogpile without adding anything.
Other than him/you and others not liking my "gambit", Crim not liking my reason for voting and CB reading too much into a post what other issue must I defend myself on?
Hipster Cthulhu
Banned
I find myself most suspicious of the more vocal people e.g. Corn, Fist, Rage etc. because scum have intensive to keep the conversation in similar places and to hint towards certain people, but I don't think that their is anyone who I would vote for at the moment.
there isn't anyone you would vote for?
Perhaps you could comment specifically on ezekelrage and quantumbro then to help me understand.
CornBurrito
Member
I really like this post actually. I've argued in multiple games that scum does have a vested interest in steering the conversation.
I do disagree though with some of it. I don't think multiple scum members would steer the conversation. A car is best with one driver. So I could envision a scenario where I'm scum and Fist is town. Fist is scum and I'm town. Both of us are town. But it would be a very large risk if Fist and I were both scum. Personally I don't think the scum team would take risks like that so early. Though that does somewhat depend on their composition. We have had scum teams lose from doing stupid and unnecessary gambits. Though even then, those tended to occur later on in the game.
Anyway, yes I have been pushing Ezekiel hard. I think that he is the best target for a D1 lynch. I also brought this up earlier rather than later, and pushed for everyone to make posts about it sooner rather than later. That's precisely because I don't want to monopolize the entire conversation.
CornBurrito
Member
Actually speaking of QB. I must have missed it, but what did QuantumBro do exactly?
Also I want to vocalize this now. I really think Scrafty should partake more in these discussions.
Yes, there is danger in everyone thinking "confirmed town, we MUST follow him". Having a confirmed town could make town play worse ironically, if they treat that confirmed town as being an infallible leader.
On the other hand, it is the one person who has views that we know for certain are not tainted by a hidden agenda. That's huge.
Also I want to vocalize this now. I really think Scrafty should partake more in these discussions.
Yes, there is danger in everyone thinking "confirmed town, we MUST follow him". Having a confirmed town could make town play worse ironically, if they treat that confirmed town as being an infallible leader.
On the other hand, it is the one person who has views that we know for certain are not tainted by a hidden agenda. That's huge.
Matt Attack
Member
Understood. I've always had an issue with letting things play out before I'm able to comfortably comment on things (unless it immediately sets off red flags of course) but I understand the problem with that and I'll try to fix it.
Anyways, despite still having some reservations I do think Ezekiel is probably the best choice to lynch. There's a relatively high amount of players who haven't really had much going on, so his particular case stands out as one that has uniquely dominated the discussion. As such, I think we stand to learn the most from lynching him. If I decide to send my vote in that direction, the fact that I still don't buy that his vote was meant to be a gambit will probably help to persuade me.
I wish I could say more about my current candidate QuantumBro, but there's been radio silence from him for a few days. Also, where is Scrafty? I'd like her opinion on the day's proceedings.
Opened with saying that he would likely vote for whoever Scrafty voted for since she was confirmed, and then doubled down on it saying it's what would be done on epicmafia. Obviously it's not too incriminating (especially if it actually is what they'd do), but it's not the kind of play I like.
CornBurrito
Member
Ah I see. Yeah that's a lazy and anti-town way of playing. Making yourself unaccountable for your votes is bad play.
If not Ezekiel I'm fine with lynching QB.
If not Ezekiel I'm fine with lynching QB.
EzekelRAGE
Member
What are you talking about? I never said my vote was a gambit.
Matt Attack
Member
My bad, the purposely defensive post was meant to be a gambit, not your vote.
Xamtheking
Member
Leaning scum towards you now because of your blatant spelling mistakes in this post, the telltale signs of a newbie scum cracking under the pressure
I kid, I kid
I didn't really see CB's post as "confirming" scum; Ezekel's defense made sense to me. He had a couple more days to change his votes, and of course a player's going to be defensive when someone's on them. Sorry I didn't really look at it too much. It's not that I avoided wanting to talk about it, it's just that I didn't find it too substantial.
Still, I'm still not feeling anyone in particular, and I need to get to work in the morning, so, uh... Crap. I have to vote for someone soon.
Still, I'm still not feeling anyone in particular, and I need to get to work in the morning, so, uh... Crap. I have to vote for someone soon.
EzekelRAGE
Member
More filler from Xam w/o discussing anything that is goin on.
CornBurrito
Member
Unfortunately, that's normal behavior for him.
CornBurrito
Member
So you really buy his "it was a gambit to look defensive" post?
Hipster Cthulhu
Banned
Xamtheking
Member
Just call me a japanese anime
It's D1. The only one who sticks out to me severely right now is QB, and I don't really know what to make of RAGE and his gambits, so I'm not going to comment on that right now. Do you wanna pick my brain about anything?
It seemed like a lame excuse to make "Being defensive" into something pro-town, but it doesn't scream "Scum" to me.
the problem I have with zeke is he went one way with it (it's a gambit bro) and then another way with it (it wasn't that defensive) which are pretty much mutually exclusive. It's either one or the other and trying both and not clearly explaining what was going on in that original post is how he's dug himself a hole in my mind.
Also, the idea of that being a gambit is just sort of ridiculous.
Vote: EzekelRAGE
I remain unconvinced about Roy and QB going forward but I feel pretty good voting for Zeke today. I'm also keeping an eye on all of our newbies, I've been pushing Hipster Cthulhu and I definitely want to see more involvement from Bowlie, while they're not super high priority I want to avoid allowing a scum to slip through for days and days without being pressured
ScraftyDevil
Banned
Sorry for my relative lack of activity thus far; it's been a rather busy few days for me. Nevertheless, I've been following the proceedings closely and I know who I'm going to place my vote on come tomorrow.
I would definitely like to hear more out of Xam and Zubz though. They seem awfully silent for the most part.
I would definitely like to hear more out of Xam and Zubz though. They seem awfully silent for the most part.
Xamtheking
Member
Zubz has been around
I've been making various wisecracks
But again, I reiterate, as of right now, QB is the only one who is like "This man is danger" on my radar right now.
EzekelRAGE
Member
How are they mutually exclusive? It was a little defensive, but not as defensive as both you and and CB are making it out to be. Extremely defensive? It really wasn't. On a scale to 1-10 it was a 2 at most. I figure, meh, I'll leave it as is and see what happens. Then comes CB with "that reads VERY defensive, We got SCUM GUIZ". I think he made the comment that being defensive AT ALL isn't pro town. Who wouldnt be a little defensive when being accused as scum?
As far as the comments about the gambit being weak/short. Ok maybe. It seemed best to respond since if you dont' ppl start calling you out for not responding. Sort of a damned if you do, damned if you dont thing.
Observations:
I say "You guys think it's weird CB is going this hard, with so little? Maybe it's a cover?" CB ignores that part of my posts in each reply (but wants to pick apart everything else in my post) and Crimson questions why I am trying to flip this on CB.
CB tries a gambit earlier, fails. Gets a little pressure put on him and Squidy takes up for him saying "Guys, I think he townie, he just made a mistake". Even squidy's first response to CB failing can be seen as playful,neutral at worst. Other than a post or two saying it wasn't out long enough, I dont think anyone brings it up again.
I try a gambit, pull the trigger too early. Possibly catching someone making a mountain out of a molehill. Squid's first response is immediately hostile. "Thats unbelievable!" Then makes another post basically sayin it's the worst gambit in Gafia history. I also noticed he liked to put "its a gambit guys lol" like I said it as a joke, which it wasn't.
CB Gambit: Places random vote, see who questions why
My Gambit: Make a slightly defensive post and see who tries to make a mountain out of a molehill to try and get a bandwagon going.
I could argue my gambit was better than CB's since anyone would want to know why someone would place a random vote. With my post, I figure most would read it for what it is. But someone, desperate to find anything to prove to be useful would try to make it a full blown ordeal.